Author Topic: Symbiostock- Critical Mass? (Read 5553 times)

grsphoto · « **on:** July 09, 2013, 10:15 »

I am very surprised and excited about how the Symbiostock network has developed. It is an amazing thing to be part of.

As of my last check there were 55 sites, and 60K images on the network.

What do you think will be the turning point, the point we reach numbers that people outside of MSG will sit up and take notice?

Will it be when we reach 150 sites? 500 sites? and image numbers 100K? 500K?

EmberMike · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2013, 10:26 »

I think image numbers. Not that numbers should be any real indication of the quality of something, but for whatever reason numbers are what makes people look and listen.

Sadly in this business nowadays, the numbers that make people really take notice end with "million". We've got a long way to go to see that kind of volume.

Kerioak~Christine · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2013, 10:47 »

We already are getting people from outside MSG - although some have joined in here. I believe there are some from Alamy

What does a million photos actually mean - it is a nice round number but on the stocksites who have millions and millions I would think over half of them have never sold, another quarter might sell once or twice, 3/16 might get the occasional sale and the remaining (I think) 1/16 get regular sales if they are lucky.

I wonder if we can buck that trend on Symbiostock as we can do so much for ourselves

Pilens · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:00 »

It is a number game as long as we depend on google and our SEO to suck in buyers. The more niches we cover on search page 1 (think 'lonesome bengal cat' in another thread) the more visitors/buyers we get.

steheap · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:10 »

I agree - quality is as important as quantity, but getting the message out is equally important. I'm constantly amazed at how we collectively perform on Google images - I got an incoming search for "beer poolside" today which is by no means as unusual a phrase as "lonesome bengal cat"!!

To spread the news, I've just finished my own blog post about the opportunities in this network http://www.backyardsilver.com/2013/07/selling-stock-photos-through-your-own-personal-website/ and will get it out in my monthly newsletter to my followers in a day or two (I want to write a good explanation of StockUploader on my blog as well, but that is another story...)

Steve

quailrunphoto · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:16 »

Quote from: steheap on July 09, 2013, 11:10

I agree - quality is as important as quantity, but getting the message out is equally important. I'm constantly amazed at how we collectively perform on Google images - I got an incoming search for "beer poolside" today which is by no means as unusual a phrase as "lonesome bengal cat"!!

To spread the news, I've just finished my own blog post about the opportunities in this network http://www.backyardsilver.com/2013/07/selling-stock-photos-through-your-own-personal-website/ and will get it out in my monthly newsletter to my followers in a day or two (I want to write a good explanation of StockUploader on my blog as well, but that is another story...)

Steve

Nicely done article. I love the network graphic.

Redneck · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:17 »

I think the Symbiostock concept has so much potential that some of the big agencies and contributors are already aware of it.
However, I also believe with the potential also comes the risk that many contributors will join while not maintaining the quality of content. Which could be damaging to the entire idea, IMO.

marthamarks · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:31 »

Quote from: Redneck on July 09, 2013, 11:17

However, I also believe with the potential also comes the risk that many contributors will join while not maintaining the quality of content. Which could be damaging to the entire idea, IMO.

I have that same concern. It's fine to accept anybody with a collection of images when the concept is new and you're trying to build critical mass, but if there's no quality control the entire effort will ultimately implode.

Not hard to imagine how the big agencies will fight back as Symbiostock grows: they'll just point to poor images & portfolios in our network.

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

Pilens · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:58 »

Quote from: marthamarks on July 09, 2013, 11:31

Quote from: Redneck on July 09, 2013, 11:17
However, I also believe with the potential also comes the risk that many contributors will join while not maintaining the quality of content. Which could be damaging to the entire idea, IMO.

I have that same concern. It's fine to accept anybody with a collection of images when the concept is new and you're trying to build critical mass, but if there's no quality control the entire effort will ultimately implode.

Not hard to imagine how the big agencies will fight back as Symbiostock grows: they'll just point to poor images & portfolios in our network.

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

So far it is a lot easier to point out poor images on the agencies. Just look what IS is doing right now

Kerioak~Christine · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2013, 12:08 »

Quote from: marthamarks on July 09, 2013, 11:31

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

yes Leo has, both with the rating system and the ability to not have people in your network, I do look at other people's work and if I came across a site I thought was listing sub-standard work - in my opinion - I would have no hesitation in removing it from my network. It would still appear in other peoples lists unless/until they also remove it so I think we do need to spend some time looking at other's work.

On a side note - did anyone get a message from me via Leo the other day as I have had no response whatsoever ? Am just going to start a fresh thread about it elsewhere

Pilens · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2013, 12:25 »

Quote from: Tinny on July 09, 2013, 12:08

Quote from: marthamarks on July 09, 2013, 11:31

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

yes Leo has, both with the rating system and the ability to not have people in your network, I do look at other people's work and if I came across a site I thought was listing sub-standard work - in my opinion - I would have no hesitation in removing it from my network. It would still appear in other peoples lists unless/until they also remove it so I think we do need to spend some time looking at other's work.

On a side note - did anyone get a message from me via Leo the other day as I have had no response whatsoever ? Am just going to start a fresh thread about it elsewhere

Meaning if agencies point out poor images they actually do us a favour as we don't have to do that part of QC ourselves

sc · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2013, 12:28 »

Just is case anyone missed it here's the last thread on the subject:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/how-to-keep-symbiostock-from-being-crap-stock/

grsphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2013, 12:59 »

Quote from: marthamarks on July 09, 2013, 11:31

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

Who are we to impose our ideas about quality on others. That is for the buyers to decide. Images I think are crap sell for more than I make in a year or a decade in galleries around the world.

What we can do is control which sites we network with, and have the looks we like.

Amanda_K · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2013, 13:17 »

I tend to think that setting up and running your own site is enough of an effort that it will self regulate. If people join and start uploading what we might consider sub par images they either won't sell causing those people lose interest or they'll improve their work to get sales.

I doubt too many people will pay for hosting/domain and put the time and work in to keep uploading to a site that makes no money, unless they have a serious passion for selling images in which case they probably aren't crap

In the meantime if you don't want your customers seeing their images you have the option to not have them in your network so it's a win win without having to exclude anybody. Basically as I see it people will earn their own "spot" in the network by having good images and more connections.

plrang · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2013, 13:19 »

What QC?? We already have over 50 reviewers

Symbiostock is a baby, I think a tiny bit of patience would be appropriate. Few months ago there was NOTHING and now everyone has a great TOOL.

BUGS and issues are normal and will be fixed, in few months no one will remember the 2.5.5

I love it

cascoly · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2013, 16:18 »

Quote from: marthamarks on July 09, 2013, 11:31

Quote from: Redneck on July 09, 2013, 11:17
However, I also believe with the potential also comes the risk that many contributors will join while not maintaining the quality of content. Which could be damaging to the entire idea, IMO.

I have that same concern. It's fine to accept anybody with a collection of images when the concept is new and you're trying to build critical mass, but if there's no quality control the entire effort will ultimately implode.

Not hard to imagine how the big agencies will fight back as Symbiostock grows: they'll just point to poor images & portfolios in our network.

Has anybody given some thought to how QC might be imposed?

simple answer is why woory about QC? symbio is a loose connection of independent sites. most of the networking is likely to be google searches that land on one site and show images from multiple sites. most individual sites are not going to have a large brand presence. buyers are looking for images that fit their needs, not particular artists. the buyers who find symb sites are also not likely to be the large buyers that the agencies attract, so they're not going to be affected by the agencies opinions.

time is better spent improving the SEO of our own sites rather than worrying too much about the potential effects of hypothetically poor sites (which would also have to be covering the same topics your site does for there to be any connection in the fist place)

the ranking and filtering can't control quality, since they're voluntary.

farbled · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2013, 16:46 »

Quote from: Tinny on July 09, 2013, 12:08

yes Leo has, both with the rating system and the ability to not have people in your network, I do look at other people's work and if I came across a site I thought was listing sub-standard work - in my opinion - I would have no hesitation in removing it from my network. It would still appear in other peoples lists unless/until they also remove it so I think we do need to spend some time looking at other's work.

That's what I do too, however I curate my list to be more in line with my chosen niche, so even though there may be top quality pictures on a site, I won't necessarily link to them unless they also complement what I sell.

Quality is a very touchy subject (as noted in the other thread) since I absolutely refuse to let anyone else have a say in what I put on my website for sale. What I find surprising is that few realize that this platform is available to anyone with Wordpress, so expect music sites, software download sites, and any other digital medium being sold using the SY platform. The whole point (for me) is that no one else has control.

I also suspect that (much further) down the road we'll see many closed networks that people will compete to get into. Any wagers?

cathyslife · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2013, 17:09 »

Quote from: farbled on July 09, 2013, 16:46

That's what I do too, however I curate my list to be more in line with my chosen niche, so even though there may be top quality pictures on a site, I won't necessarily link to them unless they also complement what I sell.

Quality is a very touchy subject (as noted in the other thread) since I absolutely refuse to let anyone else have a say in what I put on my website for sale. What I find surprising is that few realize that this platform is available to anyone with Wordpress, so expect music sites, software download sites, and any other digital medium being sold using the SY platform. The whole point (for me) is that no one else has control.

I also suspect that (much further) down the road we'll see many closed networks that people will compete to get into. Any wagers?

No wager from me, I totally expect the same. Human nature. Haves and have nots.

farbled · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2013, 17:27 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 09, 2013, 17:09

No wager from me, I totally expect the same. Human nature. Haves and have nots.

I was thinking more for niches or subject specific areas, but that too.

grsphoto · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2013, 20:16 »

Quote from: farbled on July 09, 2013, 17:27

Quote from: cclapper on July 09, 2013, 17:09
No wager from me, I totally expect the same. Human nature. Haves and have nots.

I was thinking more for niches or subject specific areas, but that too.

The tools are there to make this happen, we just don't have the numbers.... yet.

travelwitness · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2013, 13:50 »

I think the turning point will be several developments coming together, it will take a little time but I think its starting to happen.

Variety of Themes - Amanda K is developing some more child themes
Portfolio relevancy / curation - Already hardwired into the theme with the ratings system and keyword promotion
Portfolio management - Leo is also developing some plugins that should address this
Strong SEO - Already working, traffic is coming in from Google image searches
Hub site / global search development - www.symbiostock.info is making steps in this direction - Leo is developing hub theme in the background

The biggest challenge is relevant global search results so designers don't have to spend too much time searching what they're looking for. Symbiostock.info is already starting to give out some better looking results than say Photodune so I think it is entirely possible to achieve.

When these developments start converging bigger portfolios should start appearing in the network. To see the network grow from 30,000 images to 60,000 images in one month was an eye opener for me. A couple of hundred portfolios coming online would make the network almost as big as the established agencies out there.

When designers start finding good relevant images across the network they may gradually change their buying behaviour and start using it as an image resource for design projects. The big question is if the network started generating a similar or equal income to some of the agencies out there what would the impact be? The power shift towards artists could be quite significant.

Either way it's worth plugging away, it costs nothing and most images are already key-worded and ready to go. So its no extra work than uploading to any other agency.

Be interesting to where Symbiostock is in a years time.

Ron · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2013, 15:24 »

I still wonder why a buyer would by from me at 17,50 euro, instead of for $10 dollar (7 euro) at CanStockPhoto?

A simple cross search between my SYS site and CanStockPhoto is easy and quick.

Amanda_K · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2013, 15:39 »

A buyer that comes to your site through a Google image search for example or even through a network connection on another Symbio site is not likely to be aware of or shop at Canstock. My years at a design agency taught me sometimes finding the right image quickly is worth more than the designer's time to carefully price search through every site out there.

Also just personal experience, I've had great luck at a couple of smaller agencies and past personal sites that have a higher price point than some of the micros so I know first hand there are a group of buyers out there who aren't going off to scour the web for a cheaper price when they find an image they want.

Another interesting thought to ponder is if you get to the point where you are having success on your own site at your own prices, you can choose whether you even want to continue selling on agencies with lower prices.

Ron · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2013, 15:59 »

I am telling you now, if sales pick up, I am dropping all low earners in a heartbeat. I am almost done uploading my portfolio, what a task that is, but its nearly there. Hoping the hard work is going to pay off.

Kerioak~Christine · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2013, 16:08 »

Quote from: Amanda_K on July 10, 2013, 15:39

Another interesting thoought to ponder is if you get to the point where you are having success on your own site at your own prices, you can choose whether you even want to continue selling on agencies with lower prices.

I had a slight mishap with the exclusive option recently and instead of correcting all the images on my site I deleted pictures elsewhere which I think has left me with a fully exclusive portfolio already, so it is going to be an interesting year now I have to do my own marketing as well as look after the site, it has given me a lot more incentive to make it work

Ron · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2013, 16:41 »

To reply to the OP, I hope it becomes a success, I would love to see 200k images. That would be a tremendous achievement. The thought it could be used for audio and video as well is great. It would be a source for everyone to come too. Also I am thinking what PicturEngine is going to do, since we can link into that as well if needed. But I think SYS is stronger because its free and open source. Maybe SYS delayed the start up of PE as its now almost replaced by SYS.

farbled · « **Reply #26 on:** July 11, 2013, 10:37 »

I hope to get to the point where my niche is profitable enough on my own site that I can separate it from MS. I've been slowly taking them down one by one and eventually all my minerals and metals will be exclusive to my site.

Can't wait!

Redneck · « **Reply #27 on:** July 11, 2013, 10:47 »

Quote from: Ron on July 10, 2013, 16:41

To reply to the OP, I hope it becomes a success, I would love to see 200k images. That would be a tremendous achievement.

I believe it's not a question if it happens but when. I might take bets that 200K images will be reached within the next 4 months, growing easily into half a million within a year.
I actually think if this thing catches fire, this could be one of the largest image sources within a few years.

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Author Topic: Symbiostock- Critical Mass? (Read 5553 times)

grsphoto

EmberMike

Kerioak~Christine

Pilens

steheap

quailrunphoto

Redneck

marthamarks

Pilens

Kerioak~Christine

Pilens

sc

grsphoto

Amanda_K

plrang

cascoly

farbled

cathyslife

farbled

grsphoto

travelwitness

Ron

Amanda_K

Ron

Kerioak~Christine

Ron

farbled

Redneck

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