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Author Topic: What happened?  (Read 30047 times)

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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 13:26 »
+4
As you know I've been hired to do a plugin for VAT Tax. After that I will maintain Symbiostock with every Wordpress release.

That's all I would really ask is that the project is at least maintained. The rest is really up to us as individual sites and a community to drive traffic to our sites and get sales. To be honest, that's all I ever expected.


stockphoto-images.com

« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2014, 13:47 »
+9
Two things:

1. Thanks for the time and effort that Leo and all other developers (programmers and testers) put into what it has become.

2. I would have loved to contribute more (besides bug reporting). I didn't know anyone who has the necessary skills that could have worked on this for free. It's pretty unbelievable that this was even created by people who do something else for a living.

« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2014, 13:56 »
+3
Yep - thanks for all you have done Leo, it is very much appreciated.  I am glad to hear that you have passed it onto others who hopefully can keep it moving along.

« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2014, 14:21 »
+6
Two times I was writing a reaction and both times Leaf closed the topic. This time hopefully Ive been in time to post!

Leo, even if you should have become a millionaire last year with your work for Symbiostock, you should have deserved it!
Hopefully you do well with your website and enjoy being with your family.
When the VAT-plugin is ready , (nearly) everyone is now able to build his own website and sell his own work, even within the EU, if they wish to do so AND at very low costs. This was never possible before you came up with the idea of Symbiostock and we all thank you for that.
When getting negative reactions: donforget most people are grateful for all the work you did.

I am absolutely sure that the Symbiostock idea will not die.
The negative comments makes no sense. People are busy for years to build up a good portfolio with an agency and then expect to get rich overnight selling from their own website? Thats not a realistic view, to say the least. Things need time to grow.

Paul Melcher used in his blog about Symbiostock the example of the mushroom-network:
http://blog.melchersystem.com/2013/05/08/crowd-managed-photo-agency/
Quote
it is a 2,200 year old fungus whose fruits, or otherwise known as mushrooms, peek out here and there


Can it be destroyed partially? Yes. And then it will recover. Can it be destroyed totally? Yes, but you need to destroy the whole forest too! And when the forest starts to grow again, the mushrooms will too.

And I think this is the same with Symbiostock. When people silently go on building their own sites, the Symbio-principle will not be destroyed and will be successful at last, unless you destroy the internet too...

Goofy

« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 14:42 »
+14
First of all Kudos to Leo!

Having been an Technology Director I know the feeling for Leo! I admit I was on the sideline on this project (wanted to see it mature plus I lacked the time - full time day job and this wonderful MS business) - but I see promise and what it can be in the future.

Here are some of my thoughts-

1. Limit a test group before going to the masses
2. Keep all noise (comments) internal
3. Run a proof of concept to a larger but limited group (players that can have major impact on the project)
4. Release to the masses - have general uses defined along with expectations

Once again thanks Leo for your hard efforts and don't worry this project will turn out to be a success...


« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 14:53 »
+8
Hold on, we'll make it!

Leo, good luck out there :) And don't you forget, how much people are grateful for all this hard work! (even if they are not writing here:P )
You know, you did something great :)

Forgive me now, I'm coming back to improve my Sys site :)

« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2014, 15:49 »
+4
Thanks Leo, and good luck for your future projects  :)

« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2014, 16:02 »
0

The Symbiostock forum is back! Thank you Leo!!  ;)




« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2014, 16:06 »
0

The Symbiostock forum is back! Thank you Leo!!  ;)

Sorry, I wrote too fast. It's read only and posts are not allowed :-(

« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2014, 21:45 »
-14
This is my final post in MSG.



Symbiostock's greatest strenth is also its greatest weakness: Its mostly free.
 
 The most crucial and advanced features come in the basic free package. Some specialized features come in the optional packages.
 
 Many of you do not understand the developments that occur - some good, some bad, so today I'm going to write the final words on this subject before going back to illustration. I'm going to address you the same as I speak to the professionals behind closed doors, otherwise you will not fully understand the truth of why this project barely survives, although being quite loved by the majority of users. Forgive me if some of you are insulted.

Free and Open Source - Its greatest strength is it's greatest weakness


 For those of you who do not remember, the infamous Google deal that had spawned this project. It was the proverbial handwriting on the wall, evidence that our profession was deadly near to a close. That deal sent a multi-tiered message to people. Things have never been the same since.
 
 Symbiostock was started as a simple "life boat" system for when the big ships started to sink, or professionals could no longer work in Microstock. Symbiostock sites would form the alternative, theoretically. My site worked for me. Another one I had designed did great -- why not introduce the concept to the microstockers?

Yuri - Microstock Not Sustainable. "Professionals work with Professionals"

 
 "Professional" is a vague word, its definition varies among cultures. Yuri realized there was no future in the current agency system for professionals, and spoke concerning "professionals" making correct decisions, and was ridiculed for 20+ pages.
 
 Nonetheless, things taking shape, Symbiostock was seeming like a timely idea. Yet the culture that spit on Yuri would also be the downfall of the Symbiostock project.

Love it privately, hate it publically
 
 There are a few particularly strong voices which have slandered to this project to the point that people are afraid to get involved. These people know who they are. When things are going great, they are missing. When something goes wrong, they "vent" saying what a waste of time this has been. Their ignorance is their ally with their imagination being their main window to reality. The more extreme cases painted this out to be a scam. They killed it for everyone. They are like the virus that keeps the whole working body sick. Although the majority are happy, the angry have the loudest and most influential voice.
 
 You see, although I never expected to get rich, it was never expected that a project like this could be so badly misrepresented by angry entitled people that it would become almost completely a volunteer work. So even the modest income I made to support my work on this was killed. I had hoped to make this into a paying situation for the greatest supporters and developers. The problem is there are far too many agendas and distorted visions of this business, along with preconceptions on how things should be, vs what they are.
 
 
But for that silent, happy majority? ...
 
 The original invitation that started this entire project was this:
 
 "Open Source Platform For Selling Images: Authors and PHP Developers Wanted" ( http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiost ... 8ced1532ae )
 
 Notice the title "Developers Wanted". The idea was that a good number of developers could get involved. Everything in this projected idea was achieved except the title. We have a few developers, but due to constraints we are all badly limited. Our work was dependent on growth, but growth is compromized due to distorted horror stories of Symbiostock involvement. Its almost as though the whole project was concieved with a virus in it -- microstock thinking.
 
 Many developers who get involved do not stick around. The ones we had at first were treated insolently and left. I'm happy for them.
 
"It looks like your only interested in getting more contributors..."
 
 This was the knife that entered my creative artery, and I gradually bled out. That was the day Symbistock died silently. I stumbled for a few weeks trying to get up again, but this was the end of it. After a year of trouble and drama creating Symbiostock, things had become stable enough where I might refine the main website and make good on my year's time/money investement.
 
 When I finally unveiled it, it was disappointment. People expected a mock-microstock site. What they saw was a queen bee for laying Symbistock eggs. And what came was the most hurtful accusation to date: "It looks like your only interested in getting more contributors..."
 
 People, how do developers profit on this? By getting comissions? A sense of making the world a better place? Symbistock is largely free. In the long-run it leaves the smallest financial footprint on a "contributor" of all Microstock and Direct-sell methods. The only way we (developers) could possibly profit on this is through expanse.
 
 Yet somehow despite that the ENTIRE purpose of Symbistock was to lay a giant catch-net for customers (and indeed it works) I was also expected to take my one income source and dedicate that to the network's customer base as well.
 
 While there have been some major attacks, this one was the worst, because this one got through the armor. It told me I was welcome as long as I worked for free.
 
The only way development continues
 AJT and Cascoly are the network's (development-related) unsung heros. If AJT held the same philosophy as many the network would not be connected. I would have loved nothing more than to pay them. But this project was engineered to be a perfect alterative at as small a financial investement as possible.
 
 The only way development will continue is through expanse. Photographers are a highly disadvantaged group. I can't keep making plugins for sale, and finding new ways to charge you. Illustrators have a great advantage, being much less competed against.
 
 I can see that there will be ways they can monetize this, and they are both very competent. Its my personal hope that they succeed greatly in their investments of time. I've given them permission to give the premium upgrade to those who hop onto their server space to take advantage of their expertise. That is how much I appreciate their work.
 
The Future
 Its not that I hate the network. Its as we stated. Its greatest strength is its greatest weakness. Its mostly free. Its also trafficked by a few angry who have the most distinct voice. My experience with Symbiostock is like pushing a rock up hill, where the hill gets steeper, and the rock gets bigger. And every ten paces or so one of a few angry people come out and shoot insults at me. The few projects I've tried to organize as a "community" were trolled and destroyed before one productive person got involved. The Twitter game was the only successful coordianted project of the 3 attempted.
 
 As you know I've been hired to do a plugin for VAT Tax. After that I will maintain Symbiostock with every Wordpress release.
 
Why we cannot keep these boards open
 I intend to keep this as read-only since it contains all needed reference. But having an open board is one more thing for me to monitor. Right now my time must be invested in the final plugin and doing illustration full time without distraction.
 
My Advantage is Your Advantage
 The strange irony of this is really something you should take home from this thread. The main reason I could afford to carry a project like this for a year on it's minute profit: Because of my own website. What am I going back to as a sure redemption from a year walking through the desert? Illustration, on my own website.
 
 The thing you have is the thing that I have, and the main advantage. We have our own website.
 
 This is only a small fraction of the issue regarding keeping this network afloat. For me its a dead-weight. But our individual websites are really the achievement. Perhaps a few of the people I have spoken to privately can expound.
 
 But the basic note is this:
 
 1. It was killed by angry people.
 2. It is easy to maintain on an individual level, which is why it has a future.
 3. I'll be back after I recover from a year of financial breakdown and stress.
 4. I'll update the theme to remove branding and correct issues that occur with Wordpress updates since that's only a few minutes work.
 5. There is a VAT Tax plugin on the way, well developed.
 6. Symbiostock was a pet project. But some pets bite and should be left in a cage.


Just to preserve this, as it will probably disappear soon.

« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2014, 21:51 »
-18
I didn't get any kind of newsletter either, just noticed yesterday that the SYS forum was "down for maintenance." It's still down, and if Ron hadn't posted those quotations, I wouldn't have thought anything about it.

Ron, is there a date on those quotations? The name of a sender attached? Did they come from Leo? If so, when? It would help to know that.

We all greatly appreciate Leo's talent and what he's done for our little community. But the near-constant up-down-up-down instability is disconcerting, to say the least.

Want to preserve this too.

« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2014, 22:12 »
+25
Congratulations Cathy, you managed to strike a massive blow for the micros. Not sure what your actual gripe was but you spoke loud and clear that you are OK with the mistreatment of the large micros and are avidly opposed to any sort of organization of the contributors. You have earned every thing IS,DP, and FT throw your way. You could have chosen to stay quietly upset or voiced your displeasure in private but you didn't. You can't kill this project but you did help kill its leader. Leo has moved on and everyone including yourself is poorer for it. You win, everyone else loses and if you can't see it I feel sorry for you.

« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2014, 23:55 »
-20
Congratulations Cathy, you managed to strike a massive blow for the micros. Not sure what your actual gripe was but you spoke loud and clear that you are OK with the mistreatment of the large micros and are avidly opposed to any sort of organization of the contributors. You have earned every thing IS,DP, and FT throw your way. You could have chosen to stay quietly upset or voiced your displeasure in private but you didn't. You can't kill this project but you did help kill its leader. Leo has moved on and everyone including yourself is poorer for it. You win, everyone else loses and if you can't see it I feel sorry for you.


I do not believe that the SY networking has any advantage. That has nothing to do with my belief that photographers should build their own sites and sell direct. I still believe in that, and I still have my own independent site. Either YOU believe in the project or you dont. Not my concern.


Photographers are desperate for a way to sell their work independently. The SY theme is a means to give that a shot. I dont want to use that software any more. If others do, its ok by me. I have found an alternative and i am going to give it a year. If nothing happens, which is very likely, based on the big picture of microstock nowadays, then i will try something else or give it up, too.


Stop already with the blame and guilt trips. They dont work on me. Sorry to disappoint.

« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2014, 00:07 »
+20
Congratulations Cathy, you managed to strike a massive blow for the micros. Not sure what your actual gripe was but you spoke loud and clear that you are OK with the mistreatment of the large micros and are avidly opposed to any sort of organization of the contributors. You have earned every thing IS,DP, and FT throw your way. You could have chosen to stay quietly upset or voiced your displeasure in private but you didn't. You can't kill this project but you did help kill its leader. Leo has moved on and everyone including yourself is poorer for it. You win, everyone else loses and if you can't see it I feel sorry for you.


I do not believe that the SY networking has any advantage. That has nothing to do with my belief that photographers should build their own sites and sell direct. I still believe in that, and I still have my own independent site. Either YOU believe in the project or you dont. Not my concern.


Photographers are desperate for a way to sell their work independently. The SY theme is a means to give that a shot. I dont want to use that software any more. If others do, its ok by me. I have found an alternative and i am going to give it a year. If nothing happens, which is very likely, based on the big picture of microstock nowadays, then i will try something else or give it up, too.


Stop already with the blame and guilt trips. They dont work on me. Sorry to disappoint.
No, you obviously have an axe to grind or you wouldn't have entered this thread at all. Your previous two posts were simply gloating. They were unnecessary and bitter. If you were indifferent then you would have read this thread determined it had nothing to do with you and moved on. Furthermore your vision is extremely short sighted. There is a huge amount of great self hosting information, tips and suggestions that went along with Symbiostock. Besides that there is a community being built which is actually creating a unifying mentality among contributors. That was the genius of Symbiostock. You completely missed the true value and turned it into something so much smaller. It became all about you and your lack of sales. I do agree though that you are probably better off elsewhere.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 00:10 by chromaco »

« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 00:36 »
+7
I am also disappointed by the slow sales at my Symbiosite. But these things take a long time to get noticed and I'm not blaming anyone.
I'd like to thank Leo, Steve, AJT, JoAnn, Christine, Chromaco, Martha, and many others who helped us all and kept the spirit high.
If more people on the network had taken such positive actions, we might have been further ahead.

Keep on shooting,

Les

 

« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2014, 01:06 »
-18
 :)


I have every right to read and/or post in any thread i choose. I am interested in where this project goes, whether it is a success or failure. I put eight months into it...yes, i would like to see what happens to it.


There IS a huge amount of info about self-hosting on here and SY forum. I am not in control of either one. I did not take the SY forum down. You are going to blame me for that? Just fyi, i have been busy and havent even spent but a few minutes here (posted in a thread about bluehost) and but a few minutes browsing over at SY forum these past couple of weeks. Whatever this latest brouhaha is about cant have anything to do with me. I am but one ignorant, lying woman, as some of you like to say. Theres always gotta be a scapegoat tho.


The genius of SY was supposed to be a way for contributors to sell their images and eliminate the middle man, the agency, and get a fair share for their work. The genius of SY was supposed to be the seo networking advantages for ALL people who were networked. A few people came up with that "community" idea and tried to push it. That was NOT what the original idea was. The original idea was all about independence. Each of us selling our own work. That the concept deviated and took another path was not something i was interested in, business-wise.


Your idea of value and mine are two different things. But thanks for affirming my decision that i am better off elsewhere. I already knew it, tho.  ;)

« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2014, 01:37 »
+5
Thanks Leo, Thanks for your hard work, dedication and help to other symbio member and symbiostock theme  , all the best for clipartillustration :-) , soon we will see some new awesome illustration like orange man :-).

sandorgora

« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2014, 01:58 »
+5
Dear Leo, thank you so much for your work on Symbiostock.
I wish you health, luck and satisfaction in your life.

« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2014, 03:51 »
+4
Congratulations Cathy, you managed to strike a massive blow for the micros.

In any project, especially software, the people who find problems are often more important and useful than those who find everything easy or say nothing. A sustainable project will be strong enough to survive disagreements, misunderstandings etc. Problems encountered and solved will shape the thing. A software project is never only technical but is always also social.

Open Source projects are never finished and need to be economically attractive enough to draw in enough developers. The number of users needs to be big enough to support an adequate number of developers. A project with only 1 or 2 developers will always quickly reach a point at which it is no longer developed and maintained - and is either orphaned or only bug fixed. Because people have other stuff to do.

Successful software is under constant development. There is always a road map - typically voted on and agreed. Software projects need some sort of management and rules. On the technical side the code needs to be managed - e.g. there needs to be agreement about how revisions will be implemented, when new code will officially be signed off etc. Also about how versions are maintained, timetabled etc.

IMO the strongest idea around Symbiostock is in everyone owning and paying for their own costs towards a single network. But it needs to be turnkey IMO. Also it needs to seem like a single network to potential buyers. Most portfolios are not strong enough to be viable standalone sites.

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2014, 06:11 »
+4
We want to thank Leo and all people involved in the development of this project as well to all others, like us, that simply joined it giving it motive to keep it alive.

I also like to say to Leo that I completely understand what you're going through since, in a completely different area, I've passed through the exact same.

I too worked for free (in fact I've spent a lot of my money) in a very worthy cause, but had to leave due to the same type of people with petty and false accusations, and jealousies. As a prove that they were wrong, the whole project crashed after I left since I could not take it any more. Unfortunately in my case that meant that a lot of people, including many children, lost access to outdoors sports activities. All the following appeals for me to return were not enough to compensate for the damage made.

Up to this day the decision I had to make hurts, but it was inevitable since some people are not any better than cancers, corroding to death what they touch.

Someone mentioned the importance of the critiques. I could not agree more!

But when those critiques are made, not with the intent to help, but to deliberately destroy something based only of spite and grudge they are not helpful and they are not welcome.

Unfortunately all it takes it's a hand full of mean-spirited people to destroy good things. And that's one of the causes why the world is how it is. As I said in another discussion, it takes months or years to build a skyscraper, but only 5 minutes to build a bomb to destroy it.

Harvepino

« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2014, 06:51 »
+1
Thank you Leo for Symbiostock and good luck with illustration  :)

You are doing the right thing.

« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2014, 06:55 »
+1
Unfortunately all it takes it's a hand full of mean-spirited people to destroy good things.
if a project is sustainable it will be able to cope with criticism.

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2014, 07:27 »
+2
Unfortunately all it takes it's a hand full of mean-spirited people to destroy good things.
if a project is sustainable it will be able to cope with criticism.

The vast majority of the criticism I saw was purely destructive, and in no way meant to help. It was based in slandering, lies and misinformation.

Against that there's hardly anything to do especially if it kills the growth a project needs to become sustainable.

You wouldn't mess with a crocodile, right? He is "sustainable". But if it happens for you to cross with a new-born croc, or better with an egg you just need to step on it. You just need to kill it before it grows and becomes "sustainable". That is what happened with Symbiostock.

« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2014, 07:57 »
-15
Here we go again. Lots of minuses for me! Oh, the dramatics of it all.  ::)

« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2014, 08:06 »
-15
Unfortunately all it takes it's a hand full of mean-spirited people to destroy good things.
if a project is sustainable it will be able to cope with criticism.


You nailed it in your earlier post. There needs to be more than one developer for this type of project. Leo put out a call, but not many can afford to commit. If the SY idea were working, it wouldnt matter what i said. The problem is the idea isnt working as it was intended. Anyone who believed in the project would find a way to take any criticism and use it to make improvements.


Theres no shortage of troops to come in with the minuses, thats for sure! As for actually doing something constructive for the project, its much easier to blame someone else than to actually give up ones time or money to help out.  ;)


 

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