Author Topic: Centralized Registration and EULA (Read 11402 times)

grsphoto · « **on:** July 17, 2013, 08:54 »

On a couple of other threads it has been pointed out the "weakness" in not having a centrialized Regiration and common EULA.

These would be good to have. I also understand that it isn't likely to happen.

I would like to propose alternatives.

Central Registration would be good to have, but would be a security nightmare. Presently registration is required to keep others from using paid for downloads.
I think the solution would be to use someone else's registration system, such as Facebook, Google, or Wordpress.org. There are plug-ins that allow this to happen easily. For various marketing reason I think google might be the best choice to "suggest" to potential clients.

For the EULA I suggest we come up with 3 to 5 that most people can aggree on. Post these on a central location.... symbiostock.com.... and use descriptive title. Then on my site I can say I use the " Free Trade" EULA and link to that. In the future, if implimented, this could be included in the image database per image.... which would make it searchable as well.

Comments?

picture5469 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2013, 09:00 »

I agree with centralised registration and common EULA

If people do dont want either of the above there could be an opt out set up. If though we are in the same boat it should make things easier

cathyslife · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2013, 10:05 »

I would be happy to use a common eula, as long as it covers all things correctly and thoroughly. I have seen some that were way too broad, imho. Registration...i am still on the fence because i dont think it can be done and still allow me control.

grsphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2013, 12:33 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 17, 2013, 10:05

I would be happy to use a common eula, as long as it covers all things correctly and thoroughly. I have seen some that were way too broad, imho. Registration...i am still on the fence because i dont think it can be done and still allow me control.

If you use a google registration like I have on:
http://peopleimages.grsphoto.ca/wp/customer-licence-and-file-management-area/

You have the same control.... it just is easier for your potential clients to log in... 1 click instead of click, type, click,wait for email, type, click.....

As for common EULA I don't think we will ever agree on 1, so I am suggesting we use 3 to 5 different ones, allowing you the option to choose.... or use your own. From the client perspective knowing that the EULA is the" general royalty free Symbiostock EULA" or whatever we call it means they only have to read it once.... not read every sites verbage.

quailrunphoto · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2013, 13:06 »

Quote from: grsphoto on July 17, 2013, 12:33

Quote from: cclapper on July 17, 2013, 10:05
I would be happy to use a common eula, as long as it covers all things correctly and thoroughly. I have seen some that were way too broad, imho. Registration...i am still on the fence because i dont think it can be done and still allow me control.

If you use a google registration like I have on:
http://peopleimages.grsphoto.ca/wp/customer-licence-and-file-management-area/

You have the same control.... it just is easier for your potential clients to log in... 1 click instead of click, type, click,wait for email, type, click.....

As for common EULA I don't think we will ever agree on 1, so I am suggesting we use 3 to 5 different ones, allowing you the option to choose.... or use your own. From the client perspective knowing that the EULA is the" general royalty free Symbiostock EULA" or whatever we call it means they only have to read it once.... not read every sites verbage.

I would be interested in the Google registration. I think I will give it a try.

As far as the EULA is concerned I agree that 3 to 5 samples would be good. But I think individuals will customize as needed. Are there different versions needed for different licensing requirements and will there be different versions needed to meet various national legal requirements? Just some thought.

David

grsphoto · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2013, 13:30 »

Quote from: quailrunphoto on July 17, 2013, 13:06

I would be interested in the Google registration. I think I will give it a try.

As far as the EULA is concerned I agree that 3 to 5 samples would be good. But I think individuals will customize as needed. Are there different versions needed for different licensing requirements and will there be different versions needed to meet various national legal requirements? Just some thought.

David

The problem with customizing EULA is the potential client then has to read yours before they purchase.
I don't think there are much differences between nations,( though I am not a lawyer and have never played one on TV) The idea is to make it easier for customers, which, hopefully, will make us all more money.

The idea I have is the 3, or 5, or 8 different standard EULA would cover the different licensing requirements.

grsphoto · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2013, 13:32 »

BTW the plug in I use for log in is "Social Connect" there are likely others out there that are better....

JPSDK · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2013, 13:46 »

How come that you, who have all had your images released under all kinds of strange licences via the agencies are now nitpicking and cannot agree to standardize?
Is it so important?

cathyslife · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2013, 13:55 »

Quote from: JPSDK on July 17, 2013, 13:46

How come that you, who have all had your images released under all kinds of strange licences via the agencies are now nitpicking and cannot agree to standardize?
Is it so important?

It likely is not all that important. It doesnt seem like anyone reads the terms anyway. I think its more to have just in case. For the average micro transaction, it would never be needed.

JPSDK · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2013, 14:01 »

Then standardize for God Heavens Sake!

Kerioak~Christine · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2013, 14:34 »

I like Phil and Ann's licence on Priceless Pictures , nice and simple and short to read

JPSDK · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2013, 15:15 »

yes its easy to read, but but, I think there is a problem since its formed like a contract.

I consider a license, as a set of terms coming from the author, not a contract agreement. This one is shaped like a contract.

I actually more like, this usage is allowed, this is forbidden. Clear and sharp.

However I wouldnt care, much, any of these are good. And people cheat and forget anyway.

But see now we are having a debate about the content of an eula

cascoly · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2013, 18:01 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 17, 2013, 10:05

I would be happy to use a common eula, as long as it covers all things correctly and thoroughly. I have seen some that were way too broad, imho. Registration...i am still on the fence because i dont think it can be done and still allow me control.

I agree - I propose that everyone use my EULA since I have no objections to it.

re registration -- another solution is to make registration itself optional. there is no design reason that requires registration. all payment is thru paypal, and that can be completely different from the one you use for paypal.

this is the way many online systems work -- just yesterday I bot airline tickets and it was my choice whethe ri wanted to register or not. with digital goods, the need to register is even smaller. it's just one extra hurdle for buyers to leap.

SLP_London · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2013, 18:07 »

Yes, what's registration all about? It's not required as far as the Paypal is concerned.

cascoly · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2013, 18:33 »

Quote from: SLP_London on July 17, 2013, 18:07

Yes, what's registration all about? It's not required as far as the Paypal is concerned.

the only reason right now is to provide an area for the downloaded files to live. and, potentially to cut down on spam.

but there are other ways to accomplish both tasks

cidepix · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2013, 18:49 »

No to both, for me.. it is just looking for trouble for no reason..

We don't need neither of them to have sales..

GeoPappas · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2013, 19:17 »

I am new to this, but I was wondering why registration was required.

Many web sites allow you to purchase something without registering.

I think that it might end up turning some customers off if they have to register for a small purchase.

PhilD · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2013, 19:34 »

Quote from: grsphoto on July 17, 2013, 13:32

BTW the plug in I use for log in is "Social Connect" there are likely others out there that are better....

Anything that makes a potential image buyer's visit easier is worthwhile.

But I note that the Social Connect plugin is not actively supported or developed.

There's another plugin "Social Login" that appears activity supported - wonder if anyone has tried it?

http://wordpress.org/support/plugin/oa-social-login

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2013, 20:03 »

Regarding registration to purchase, if you don't know who you sold a license to, you could never deal with unauthorized usage. It seems essential, if you have a license that forbids certain usages without an EL, that you know who purchased what

If I were to buy, I think I'd find multiple registrations a big deterrent. I also never use Facebook of Google login options (FB once shut my account for a week for using a fake name - which I wasn't - so I don't want my life shut down if FB effs up again. It would be great to have an option for a common registration with each site having a choice not to use it if it's not something they want.

Likewise having one or two standard EULAs with really clear language would encourage compliance. Some of the ones I read were so long and in legalese. Very hard to digest

grsphoto · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2013, 20:30 »

Quote from: GeoPappas on July 17, 2013, 19:17

I am new to this, but I was wondering why registration was required.

My understanding is ( and if I am wrong please tell me) registration is required in order to have a place to "put" the images once they are purchased. Paypal will provide all the details we may need about the buyer, but with creating a folder for the shopping cart to store their purchases this system will not work.

Amanda_K · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2013, 22:36 »

Here's the thing. If people want to do this, they can get together and do it in a closed network. You could cover things like centralized logins/terms and cart not to mention quality control etc. You could even have your own branding of the group. The smaller the group at the beginning, the easier it would be to agree on things and then add people as the details are ironed out. It's a good idea I'm interested to see who moves forward with it.

The fact is that not everyone who uses the Symbiostock theme is going to want to be a part of that, some people really do prefer autonomy and control of their own sites and don't mind the extra responsibility and marketing.

Personally I think there is room for both models using the base Leo and others have built. Whoever is serious about this idea of centralizing should get together and discuss making it happen.

I'd just caution you to remember that with an open source solution that is already "out there" there is really no way (or reason to) force every single person who uses the theme into the same terms. There is a post about hub sites Leo made earlier with additional ideas.

cascoly · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2013, 22:48 »

Quote from: jsnover on July 17, 2013, 20:03

Regarding registration to purchase, if you don't know who you sold a license to, you could never deal with unauthorized usage. It seems essential, if you have a license that forbids certain usages without an EL, that you know who purchased what

........

but registration doesn't solve this problem- all registering requires is an active email account. when they buy an image, they can use a paypal account , but that has no connection to the registration.

sym is not where criminal masterminds are going to go to develop their schemes for world domination. all the objections to sym are already present for anyone who deals with the micro agencies. basically, if you treat every potential client as a criminal, you're never going to get around to actually selling anything

cascoly · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2013, 22:56 »

Quote from: grsphoto on July 17, 2013, 20:30

Quote from: GeoPappas on July 17, 2013, 19:17
I am new to this, but I was wondering why registration was required.

My understanding is ( and if I am wrong please tell me) registration is required in order to have a place to "put" the images once they are purchased. Paypal will provide all the details we may need about the buyer, but with creating a folder for the shopping cart to store their purchases this system will not work.

that's the rationale, but that's only because it was designed that way. it's not really necessary, and it's also not a reliable solution clickbank doesn't require registration - you just use paypal. it's relatively simple to provide unique download areas for each buyer.

not directed at any indiv poster:
of course, buyers can give that info away - but they can also give their registration info away, or send a copy of the file to other people, or post your file on flickr. we're not dealing with fine art here worth thousands of dollars -- people have an overestimate of just how many people want to steal their work. you have a choice - you can make an impregnable fortress to protect your cow, or you can spend your time growing your herd

Ron · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2013, 01:18 »

The division has started, it was inevitable, but because a few people without a SYS site threw a tantrum about what Symbiostock is not, we now have a divided community. I am sorry, this is not what I am interested in all. I dont want to deal with this stuff, I started a SYS site to get away from some agencies, now it seems I am need to deal with the same crap in Symbiostock. I am out guys, I am following my own path. I apologize. I will be interested in upgrades and premium features, and being part of the network as is, but I will not be part of standardization. Its the opposite of what I had in mind when I started my site. I will keep an open mind and if I see benefits, I am not that stubborn to change my mind. But I dont want the headaches and frustrations of discussing this and trying to come to a working solution. Sorry guys.

picture5469 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2013, 01:25 »

Quote from: Amanda_K on July 17, 2013, 22:36

Here's the thing. If people want to do this, they can get together and do it in a closed network. You could cover things like centralized logins/terms and cart not to mention quality control etc. You could even have your own branding of the group. The smaller the group at the beginning, the easier it would be to agree on things and then add people as the details are ironed out. It's a good idea I'm interested to see who moves forward with it.

The fact is that not everyone who uses the Symbiostock theme is going to want to be a part of that, some people really do prefer autonomy and control of their own sites and don't mind the extra responsibility and marketing.

Personally I think there is room for both models using the base Leo and others have built. Whoever is serious about this idea of centralizing should get together and discuss making it happen.

I'd just caution you to remember that with an open source solution that is already "out there" there is really no way (or reason to) force every single person who uses the theme into the same terms. There is a post about hub sites Leo made earlier with additional ideas.

I think you have raised some excellent points here. This is a base that we can choose to build on. I would be in favour of centralisation as it makes things easier for customers. The easier it is for customers, the more sales we have and we all want those.
The problem is I don't have the technical skills to build a hub for centralisation. I struggled with the site. However, I can help by writing stuff.

Kind regards
Mark

cascoly · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2013, 01:42 »

Quote from: Ron on July 18, 2013, 01:18

The division has started, it was inevitable, but because a few people without a SYS site threw a tantrum about what Symbiostock is not, we now have a divided community. I am sorry, this is not what I am interested in all. I dont want to deal with this stuff, I started a SYS site to get away from some agencies, now it seems I am need to deal with the same crap in Symbiostock. I am out guys, I am following my own path. I apologize. I will be interested in upgrades and premium features, and being part of the network as is, but I will not be part of standardization. Its the opposite of what I had in mind when I started my site. I will keep an open mind and if I see benefits, I am not that stubborn to change my mind. But I dont want the headaches and frustrations of discussing this and trying to come to a working solution. Sorry guys.

what are you talking about? there's no division (or no more than there has always been - with dff eula, diff rankings, diff prices, etc, etc) - the sym network is EXACTLY what it was. the global search is EXACTLY what it was. and no one has suggested doing that any differently

some of us are talking about a separate way to show our potfolios. it doesn't affect you at all if you choose not to participate.

Ron · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2013, 03:45 »

I am not saying its affecting my site, I am simply saying I dont want to deal with making these decissions now, its giving me flashbacks of the frustration I have to deal with at the agencies, something I want to get away from.

But I apologise for my wording, its emotional, and I should have worded myself differently. So I apologise for that. I am sorry.

I am going to step away from this discussion and let other, smarter people, work this out.

I am still happy to be part of Symbiostock, and proud of it too.

grsphoto · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2013, 07:47 »

Quote from: Ron on July 18, 2013, 01:18

The division has started, it was inevitable, but because a few people without a SYS site threw a tantrum about what Symbiostock is not, we now have a divided community. I am sorry, this is not what I am interested in all. I dont want to deal with this stuff, I started a SYS site to get away from some agencies, now it seems I am need to deal with the same crap in Symbiostock. I am out guys, I am following my own path. I apologize. I will be interested in upgrades and premium features, and being part of the network as is, but I will not be part of standardization. Its the opposite of what I had in mind when I started my site. I will keep an open mind and if I see benefits, I am not that stubborn to change my mind. But I dont want the headaches and frustrations of discussing this and trying to come to a working solution. Sorry guys.

Ron

No one will force you into someone else's standards.

Someone make some valid concepts as an outsider of what they thought would make it difficult for new buyers to use the network.

I suggested some easy fixes that can be done now, that no one has to do.....basically best practices.

The network is going to grow and change. People are going to piss on the network, while others are going to nurture it. You will always have your own site where you can do what you want.

Ron · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2013, 07:52 »

Cheers bud, I apologised in my 2nd comment.

Please do not feel offended, I wasnt directing my rant at any symbiostock user.

Sorry guys.

farbled · « **Reply #29 on:** July 18, 2013, 10:05 »

Quote from: Amanda_K on July 17, 2013, 22:36

Here's the thing. If people want to do this, they can get together and do it in a closed network. You could cover things like centralized logins/terms and cart not to mention quality control etc. You could even have your own branding of the group. The smaller the group at the beginning, the easier it would be to agree on things and then add people as the details are ironed out. It's a good idea I'm interested to see who moves forward with it.

The fact is that not everyone who uses the Symbiostock theme is going to want to be a part of that, some people really do prefer autonomy and control of their own sites and don't mind the extra responsibility and marketing.

Personally I think there is room for both models using the base Leo and others have built. Whoever is serious about this idea of centralizing should get together and discuss making it happen.

I'd just caution you to remember that with an open source solution that is already "out there" there is really no way (or reason to) force every single person who uses the theme into the same terms. There is a post about hub sites Leo made earlier with additional ideas.

This sums the whole thing up brilliantly. Those who want all the agency-type stuff can go ahead and build them, those who don't, won't.

cathyslife · « **Reply #30 on:** July 18, 2013, 10:07 »

I understand Rons feelings and have some of the same. I thought that the basic seo benefits of SY would provide me a greater chance of my images getting noticed, and I think that is true. I am seeing that happen in webmaster tools, and I am willing to have patience, do what I can to push that, and see how sales go. I know it will take time, and I think it has far more benefits than say having my site in KTools.

I am open to seeing if having a hub site improves sales faster, since it sounds more convenient for the buyer, but when talk starts of taking commissions to pay people, I am out. I can just stay at the agencies, if that is the case. But again, I am open, and will watch, encourage, and support others who think this is the way to go. When the sales start rolling in, I will reconsider.

I just don't see most buyers having an issue with registering at 2 or 3 sites to fill their needs. I say that from experience. If I find a great site that provides lots of people images, and people images are what I normally buy, I go there. If I sometimes use food and animals, I find a site for great animals and a site for great food, or maybe a site that has both. Registering and shopping at two or three sites is not that big of a deal. When I look for camera equipment, I usually shop at B&H, but I always check amazon (where I'm registered) and Adorama (where I'm registered) and maybe one or two other places.

I don't see this as any different. Frankly, I see other, more important things that should change to beef up the existing model, like extended licenses and multiple word search terms on our individual site. Maybe Cascoly's idea of getting rid of registration on our individual sites altogether. That.

farbled · « **Reply #31 on:** July 18, 2013, 10:20 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 18, 2013, 10:07

I am open to seeing if having a hub site improves sales faster, since it sounds more convenient for the buyer, but when talk starts of taking commissions to pay people, I am out. I can just stay at the agencies, if that is the case. But again, I am open, and will watch, encourage, and support others who think this is the way to go. When the sales start rolling in, I will reconsider.

Same for me. It's so early in this whole project for any blanket changes or assumptions. It's a framework. People can (and most certainly will) build it however they want. I'll pick and choose what I want to be part of too. Nicely put.

franky242 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:11 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 18, 2013, 10:07

I just don't see most buyers having an issue with registering at 2 or 3 sites to fill their needs. I say that from experience. If I find a great site that provides lots of people images, and people images are what I normally buy, I go there. If I sometimes use food and animals, I find a site for great animals and a site for great food, or maybe a site that has both. Registering and shopping at two or three sites is not that big of a deal. When I look for camera equipment, I usually shop at B&H, but I always check amazon (where I'm registered) and Adorama (where I'm registered) and maybe one or two other places.

I fully support that, especially since we offer a "pay per download" service which many others don´t - the user has no unused credits with us that he might forget about or otherwise never be able to use for downloads in the future. Hence several registrations with sites offering specialized contents should be fine.

grsphoto · « **Reply #33 on:** July 21, 2013, 14:43 »

Quote from: PhilD on July 17, 2013, 19:34

Quote from: grsphoto on July 17, 2013, 13:32
BTW the plug in I use for log in is "Social Connect" there are likely others out there that are better....

Anything that makes a potential image buyer's visit easier is worthwhile.

But I note that the Social Connect plugin is not actively supported or developed.

There's another plugin "Social Login" that appears activity supported - wonder if anyone has tried it?

http://wordpress.org/support/plugin/oa-social-login

Just had a look... you have to register at another site, and, though it doesn't say it in the description, it looks like it is a paid plug-in.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #34 on:** July 21, 2013, 18:16 »

Soon there will be a no register cart, and one fine day there will be the ability to centralize carts

All optional of course.

cascoly · « **Reply #35 on:** July 21, 2013, 22:41 »

I've had several people show interest in a centralized travel hub and will add one to http://symbiostock-search.com

hiowever, despite the dire predictions of some non-symsite posters it doesn't seem to be that big a need

meanwhile, i'm continuing to get increased indexing thru contact sheets with backlinks from my cascoly.com site to my sy m site cascoly-images.com.

I've offered to host contact sheets from other sites, or you can oin hubpages if you don't have your own non-sym site, and post articles about your images. hubpages has a good record of being indexed by google

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Author Topic: Centralized Registration and EULA (Read 11402 times)

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