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Author Topic: Introduction and an update on Symbiostock  (Read 12858 times)

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« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2015, 09:36 »
+4
Absolutely true. And I think (among many other reasons) this is why many people are disappointed by it. If Symbiostock had been sold here simply as a WordPress theme that allows you to process, watermark and sell your own images, and sales and marketing are up to you, much angst could have been avoided. But the developers, and now there are several, keep pitching this as something much more.

I appreciate all the effort everyone's put into it, but it's time to be honest and say this is a theme. When it comes to sales you're on your own.

Ditto. The networking part of it was a great idea, but it just didn't work.


crow@grfx.co

« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2015, 10:12 »
+2
Good Morning.
Regarding some of the above comments I would like to weigh in to the discussion for a bit.
1) As of Sunday night there is only 1 developer of Symbiostock. That would be Robin.
2) Furthermore, as of right now there is only one person offering support on Leo's Legacy Theme. That would be Leo. He will continue to make sure your sites are working and stable. In keeping with the open-source concept and symbiotic values that the original theme was based on, Leo has posted specific instructions as to how another developer can offer their own updates and support. As far as I know neither Robin nor anyone else other than Leo has shown any interest in supporting legacy sites. I understand that there are legacy site owners uncomfortable with Leo handling their updates and keeping their legacy site operating. These site owners should lobby another capable person to offer their own branch of the legacy theme which they would be responsible for. From what I understand this is very basic coding and should not be very difficult to accomplish.

Regarding the networking feature of the legacy theme. The premise was strong. That is why it was built as a theme instead of a plugin in the first place. And yes it was probably oversold, mostly because we all wanted it to work so badly that we put our complete faith in the concept. Ultimately anyone who was expecting the networking feature to be the perfect solution was doomed to be disappointed. However, the contention that it is continuing to be promoted by Leo and I is simply not true. We know it doesn't work and I've been saying so for over a year now. The networking feature in a perfect world probably would have worked but in reality it turned into a network grab with people clamoring for "the best" partners. It also resulted in disappointment when "so and so" wouldn't link back or a private group was created and others couldn't get in. This was one of the key failures Leo and I identified when we started discussing a better way.
There are many other failures with the original concept but we learned from them. Starting over with grfx.co we have made adjustments based on what we have learned over the last couple of years. The primary lesson was that it is the community that drives success. Sharing ideas and helping each other. In these ways the legacy program was a huge success. At least until the community aspect died. Once that happened stagnation followed and ultimately the project stalled.
I intend to rebuild that community. Visit us over at
http://community.grfx.co/ [nofollow] or start the discussion here again. Either way lets rebuild what made the original legacy theme so unique and potentially powerful.

FWIW the grfx.co community is open to all image producers regardless of your media.

« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2015, 10:26 »
+4
And why is Leo leaving Symbiostock and let us photographers alone with this anonymous censoring Robin?

Sorry i can not understood Robin and Leo (in another way) too. There is a bad information management on both sites.


Semmick Photo

« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2015, 11:18 »
+5
The community aspect died because the project was abandoned. Not the other way around.

« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2015, 11:27 »
+3

FWIW the grfx.co community is open to all image producers regardless of your media.

Please can you clarify? From the other threads and the update notice in my Legacy site (in bold), I was quite convinced that it was for illustrators only, and only if the quality of work was up to grfx.co standards?


crow@grfx.co

« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2015, 11:41 »
+2

FWIW the grfx.co community is open to all image producers regardless of your media.

Please can you clarify? From the other threads and the update notice in my Legacy site (in bold), I was quite convinced that it was for illustrators only, and only if the quality of work was up to grfx.co standards?

This is a good question:
Due to contractual obligations the hosting platform at grfx is indeed for illustrators, and yes probably for those who understand their market. Honestly for anyone else it would not be a good investment. It has benefits but only if you are confident that your images will sell on your independent site in reasonable numbers.

The converter plugin works for anyone with a legacy site but does not at this point handle model releases. It should be noted that if you use the grfx converter you might not be able to convert to the new symbiostock. Leo has said that the grfx converter is reversible so there may be a work around if you choose to go a different direction later on.

The community is for anyone who is interested in self hosting. The comments, tips, and general tone are created to help promote the concept of hosting and selling your own images regardless of your media type.

I have started a new thread out of this portion of the forum. Please direct your future questions to me in that other thread so we can leave this forum category to "new Symbiostock" related discussions and I can leave this section.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 12:32 by crow@grfx.co »

« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2015, 12:57 »
+7
corw --

 thanks for the extensive comments and the important confirmation that leo will support legacy symbiostock sites as necessary

while it's true the code is available to anyone, unfortunately it is not well documented, so it's difficult for others to try to debug;  fortunately there's been no need for that as yet

I have no problem with robin moving forward with a new version, and initially my questions were all related to how we could move our sites to the new site;  but robin refused to answer even the most basic of questions; he started by deleting posts he didn't like,  and now he's censoring the forum and blocking users. his choice, his loss.


however, all symbiostock site owners should be concerned about robin's false claim to a trademark for the word 'symbiostock'  - all robin needs to do is change the name - like leo has done with grfx.  then existing symbiostock sites would not need to worry and we can all get on with trying to sell images

« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2015, 14:41 »
+1
Crow thank you for your explainations!


This is a good question:
Due to contractual obligations the hosting platform at grfx is indeed for illustrators, and yes probably for those who understand their market.

Thats the point these mysterious obligations. Why signing such a contract?


however, all symbiostock site owners should be concerned about robin's false claim to a trademark for the word 'symbiostock'  - all robin needs to do is change the name - like leo has done with grfx.  then existing symbiostock sites would not need to worry and we can all get on with trying to sell images

It's actually quite simple, either he has a trademark registered or not.
From his behavior (blocking, ignoring, censoring) I conclude that he has no rights for the trademark symbiostock. And as you said Cascoly is the name "symbiostock" in use since a few years and therefore not protectable (i hope!).
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 14:44 by R2D2 »

« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2015, 18:47 »
+1
Robin may or may not have filed an application for a trademark on the name but in the U.S. it takes about four to six months to go through the process before you are granted a registration number and there are opportunities to challenge it as well. I'm not familiar with international filing but presumably he would want to file in multiple countries since Symbiostock is in use internationally.

Shelma1

« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2015, 19:06 »
+2
Yes, trademark is a lengthy process. And even if he's applied for a trademark, it could very well be denied because an internet search will turn up many websites already using that name. To apply for a trademark in many countries would also be expensive, I'm assuming. It's one of the first things I suggested when I joined Symbiostock, and the idea was roundly rejected.

« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2015, 19:22 »
0
The converter plugin works for anyone with a legacy site but does not at this point handle model releases.

So you're saying a photographer like me with a SYS "legacy" site and no need for model releases, because I shoot wildlife and landscapes, not people actually could switch to grfx?

I removed the name "Symbiostock" from my site last year, so nothing would have to change in that regard.

farbled

« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2015, 19:30 »
+1
The converter plugin works for anyone with a legacy site but does not at this point handle model releases.

So you're saying a photographer like me with a SYS "legacy" site and no need for model releases, because I shoot wildlife and landscapes, not people actually could switch to grfx?

I removed the name "Symbiostock" from my site last year, so nothing would have to change in that regard.

I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though (for me at least). But everyone is helpful. What I did was a second install of WP and just played with it for a bit. Then when I felt comfortable I converted my "real" site.

« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2015, 20:04 »
0
The converter plugin works for anyone with a legacy site but does not at this point handle model releases.

So you're saying a photographer like me with a SYS "legacy" site and no need for model releases, because I shoot wildlife and landscapes, not people actually could switch to grfx?

I removed the name "Symbiostock" from my site last year, so nothing would have to change in that regard.

I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though (for me at least). But everyone is helpful. What I did was a second install of WP and just played with it for a bit. Then when I felt comfortable I converted my "real" site.

Thank you, Farbled!

I remember your website from SYS and was impressed with your work. And now I appreciate hearing about your experience with the transition.

This is the direction I'm leaning toward, too. So maybe a few (at least) of us 'togs will wind up there to keep one another company.  :D

farbled

« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2015, 20:19 »
+1
The converter plugin works for anyone with a legacy site but does not at this point handle model releases.

So you're saying a photographer like me with a SYS "legacy" site and no need for model releases, because I shoot wildlife and landscapes, not people actually could switch to grfx?

I removed the name "Symbiostock" from my site last year, so nothing would have to change in that regard.

I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though (for me at least). But everyone is helpful. What I did was a second install of WP and just played with it for a bit. Then when I felt comfortable I converted my "real" site.

Thank you, Farbled!

I remember your website from SYS and was impressed with your work. And now I appreciate hearing about your experience with the transition.

This is the direction I'm leaning toward, too. So maybe a few (at least) of us 'togs will wind up there to keep one another company.  :D
Absolutely. :) Shoot me a PM or catch me over there if you like. Happy to help!

« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2015, 20:41 »
+2
I don't understand why the site needs some function for Model Releases. Legacy Symbio doesn't. If you have model released images add the Text "Model Released' to your copy.

« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2015, 21:17 »
+1
Robin may or may not have filed an application for a trademark on the name but in the U.S. it takes about four to six months to go through the process before you are granted a registration number and there are opportunities to challenge it as well. I'm not familiar with international filing but presumably he would want to file in multiple countries since Symbiostock is in use internationally.

all true -- however here's what robin CLAIMS (from his trademark page when that section was still available online):

2. Intellectual Property Rights. The Programs and each of their components are owned by Symbiostock and are protected under copyright law and under other laws as applicable. Title to the Programs and any component, or to any copy, modification, or merged portion shall remain with Symbiostock, subject to the applicable license. The Symbiostock trademark and the Hummingbird logo are trademarks of Symbiostock.

when questioned whether he had actually registered the trademark, robin refused to answer, and no trademark has been registered in the US.

« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2015, 21:20 »
0
....
I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though ..... 

what parts of woocommerce did you find useful?  I did a simple install of grfx to confirm that it works for photos, but haven't gotten much farther -- in particular, does woo make selling prints or other physical products any easier?

also, what theme did you use?  I installed with storefront, but it has too many non-image distractions

farbled

« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2015, 21:29 »
+1
....
I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though ..... 

what parts of woocommerce did you find useful?  I did a simple install of grfx to confirm that it works for photos, but haven't gotten much farther -- in particular, does woo make selling prints or other physical products any easier?

also, what theme did you use?  I installed with storefront, but it has too many non-image distractions
I like the product layouts and ease of customizing (currencies, etc). They already have a zillion paid and free plugins that seem to solve most tweaks I wanted to do. I'm still working through what I want vs. what I need, and it is pretty straightforward. I'm using a free theme called dazzling (I think there's a link on the bottom of my site) after trying about a half dozen free themes. Its not where I want it yet, but its getting there. I'm more concerned about my content and getting it optimized.

« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2015, 21:32 »
0
....
I did. And I'm finding the woocommerce stuff interesting (my site is photominingstock.com). There are still lots I'm learning to do so its not entirely a cakewalk though ..... 

what parts of woocommerce did you find useful?  I did a simple install of grfx to confirm that it works for photos, but haven't gotten much farther -- in particular, does woo make selling prints or other physical products any easier?

also, what theme did you use?  I installed with storefront, but it has too many non-image distractions

Good questions, Steve. I've been wondering if any theme will do, or if some definitely will not work, or if some work better than others.

Also, I'm glad to know you tested it with photos. Assume it did work okay, since you didn't flag any problem with that.

Gonna go check out Woo Commerce right now.

« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2015, 05:33 »
-5
Robin may or may not have filed an application for a trademark on the name but in the U.S. it takes about four to six months to go through the process before you are granted a registration number and there are opportunities to challenge it as well. I'm not familiar with international filing but presumably he would want to file in multiple countries since Symbiostock is in use internationally.

all true -- however here's what robin CLAIMS (from his trademark page when that section was still available online):

2. Intellectual Property Rights. The Programs and each of their components are owned by Symbiostock and are protected under copyright law and under other laws as applicable. Title to the Programs and any component, or to any copy, modification, or merged portion shall remain with Symbiostock, subject to the applicable license. The Symbiostock trademark and the Hummingbird logo are trademarks of Symbiostock.

when questioned whether he had actually registered the trademark, robin refused to answer, and no trademark has been registered in the US.

I was watching the conversation between you are Robin, and it was you that way over board on your comments. I was going to log on and tell you that you were way off base on your comments and your attitude. And your claim about him not registering it because you can not find it in the US copyright office. What if h registered in his home country. You are making claims and asking questions that really are none of your business. How about letting the man bring out the SW before the criticism starts. This is the same kind of attitude that drove away Leo. 

« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2015, 13:05 »
+4
Robin may or may not have filed an application for a trademark on the name but in the U.S. it takes about four to six months to go through the process before you are granted a registration number and there are opportunities to challenge it as well. I'm not familiar with international filing but presumably he would want to file in multiple countries since Symbiostock is in use internationally.

all true -- however here's what robin CLAIMS (from his trademark page when that section was still available online):

2. Intellectual Property Rights. The Programs and each of their components are owned by Symbiostock and are protected under copyright law and under other laws as applicable. Title to the Programs and any component, or to any copy, modification, or merged portion shall remain with Symbiostock, subject to the applicable license. The Symbiostock trademark and the Hummingbird logo are trademarks of Symbiostock.

when questioned whether he had actually registered the trademark, robin refused to answer, and no trademark has been registered in the US.

I was watching the conversation between you are Robin, and it was you that way over board on your comments. I was going to log on and tell you that you were way off base on your comments and your attitude. And your claim about him not registering it because you can not find it in the US copyright office. What if h registered in his home country. You are making claims and asking questions that really are none of your business. How about letting the man bring out the SW before the criticism starts. This is the same kind of attitude that drove away Leo.


 hilarious!  you say it's none of our business when somebody no one knows jumps in, refuses to identify himself,  and then stakes a claim to the work that dozens of people have done over 2 years???  it's none of our business what the new software he's peddling is going to cost?? it's none of our business that the terms for hosting our software can be changed at any time??? 

and,  it's a TRADEMARK not a copyright issue -- you can't copyright a name;  true, the name be registered in another country  - I never said otherwise - I only said it was NOT registered in the US and asked for clarification, since robin IS CLAIMING he has a registered trademark.  only response is silence
 

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2015, 14:18 »
0
Sounds great. I hope for the best. ;D

Hey guys,

I'm going to be your Symbiostock liaison from now on so don't hesitate to throw me questions if you have any. We'll be updating you as releases are made but I wanted to let you all know that me and Leo are extremely excited about some of the things we are doing with Symbiostock.

We're hoping that with your continued support and involvement, we will be able to not only enhance Symbiostock's current offering, but really expand its reach so that you can even use the system to generate sales and find customers at a level that competes with large microstock companies.

I have been a contributor for a long time, but am still somewhat new to the Symbiostock community so I'll be relying on you guys for a little guidance at times. I will keep you updated on release dates as we near launch, and again, throw me any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them.

All the best,
Robin.

« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2015, 14:58 »
-7
Why does he have to introduce himself as long as the sw works? If Leo transferred the intellectual properities to Robin, any future SW is his property, any other sw that was written and put into use still is open public source.  And yes you can trademark a name that is unique, you cannot trademark a common word.

Don't like him or his software, don't use it, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to change.


 

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