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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Symbiostock => Topic started by: Symbiostock Official on April 24, 2015, 23:27
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Some Symbiostockers have contacted me regarding an update that is showing up on their installs.
Unfortunately, the legacy Symbiostock update system is being used for marketing purposes by the previous developer of Symbiostock. I have asked him to stop doing this, but he feels it is appropriate. At this point there is nothing I can do because he is not giving me access to the update system, which is password protected on third party servers.
I recommend you follow the instructions posted here (http://www.symbiostock.org/forums/topic/migrating-from-legacy-symbiostock/page/2/#post-22789) to disable the update notification and not install anything on your legacy Symbiostock server unless it is posted on the Symbiostock.org forums/blog.
I apologize about the confusion.
Robin.
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To reitterate - Illustrators of Symbiostock ( legacy version ) should be directed to this page: http://community.grfx.co/symbiostock-to-grfx-converter-ready/ (http://community.grfx.co/symbiostock-to-grfx-converter-ready/)
The update in Wordpress is a notice to let everyone know that the current version is no longer supported. In the world of open source and wordpress this is perfectly common and actually needed, that way the people who are ignorant of developments don't end up with useless themes after the tumbleweeds have gone by. So users of Symbiostock legacy sites will no doubt be thankful to be notified.
Also regarding "marketing purposes" it was agreed that with the branching of Symbiostock I was perfectly able and it was acceptable to let illustrators know that I had created a branch of the software in their favor. This was agreed on extensively before hand. It was fundamental to the branching. This should not have been a surprise.
Please excuse this small panic as coming into this Robin did not previously have a Symbiostock site, did not have much to do with open source, and was not very familiar with wordpress so as to understand a basic "no longer supported, please transfer" notice that comes up occassionally in the Wordpress admin. Don't worry, the "previous developer" has not gone Rogue :D. I'm here to answer questions.
There is nothing of interest in the change other than to the notice that you can see in your admin areas. Your sites should operate just fine.
As of now all legacy sites are orphaned from development. It has been made clear that I am no longer needed for any troubleshooting or problem solving. If you have any issues with your legacy sites I suggest you direct them to Robin. Otherwise I am aiding illustrators in the conversion process.
Illustrators should know that this current version was the long-anticipated Symbiostock upgrade, but it was branched into grfx after a difference of direction and operation between Robin and I.
At this point there is nothing I can do because he is not giving me access to the update system, which is password protected on third party servers.
By this he is referring to the updates channel I use for my plugins, some Symbiostock, some others. I've always used it for updates for all of my plugins. There is nothing changed here either.
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>:( >:( >:(
what the...GUYS!!!!
I have an original symbio site that works great for me. No way am I going to upgrade to some unknown new version. You don't fix what ain't broken. And now there is no support if it does break? Robin do you even have a old symbio site? Any sales? If so can I see it please because right now I feel like I am the only one with something to lose. At least Leo had a site I could see but he won't/can't? (I don't really understand this) be able to help me anymore unless I am an illustrator?
You guys need to get your acts together because I'm trying to make money here and you two are busy bickering over stupid things.
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What a mess.
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Hi Shelma. There is no mess here other than a little indiscretion of the OP. Shelma you are welcome to contact me personally if you wish to explore the new version.
>:( >:( >:(
what the...GUYS!!!!
I have an original symbio site that works great for me. No way am I going to upgrade to some unknown new version. You don't fix what ain't broken.
Thank you for the complement! Actually you upgrade what ain't broken to make it better! ;D
Back in the day VAT tax got in our way, among a plethora of international-cart concerns. It was a known fact that I would develop a new version. It took me a year!
I'm simply not hosting photographers.
Would you like me to convert the legacy versions into some other name? There's always a way.
We can consider this thread as the official cross-roads for those of your situation. I see only good opportunities, even for the legacy version purists! Even a simple name change and a monitoring of wordpress changes might be a simple enough solution.
For the record, I asked him not to post in a forum. I asked him if he might want the text changed in some way that we could agree on, or to email me on the concerns. I didn't make the thread!
BTW - you in no more danger than you have been in the last year of perfect stability.
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Leo i appreciate what you did. i really do but you are missing the point. I'm sitting here with a site that currently can go nowhere even if i wanted to convert because there is no converter for me that is ready. Even worse its being built by someone who as far as i know has no history with symbiostock at all. I might feel better when i actually see something real from the new symbiostock but right now i'm pretty #%$#@& about being left in the lurch.
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:o
I guess I need to keep my fingers crossed that my legacy Symbio site doesn't fall apart before Robin can actually show something that works. Following various threads here and over on Symbiostock.org I am beginning to loose confidence that it will happen eventually :(
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I want my 105$ dollar back, you can keep the 25$ I donated :o
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I'd really like to start selling direct and as a consequence I've seriously considered having a Symbiostock website. However, I've watched the Symbiostock shenanigans as an outsider all these months and, to be perfectly honest, the whole thing looks like a bit of a shambles. I may be wrong, but it appears that the developers are a brittle, bickering bunch who change direction at the drop of a hat and leave their user base high and dry at a moments notice.
Given this history, you'd really struggle to get me to sign up to Symbiostock. Stability and consistency are basic requirements from any potential business partner and I really don't see much evidence of that with Symbiostock. I'm afraid any enthusiasm or confidence I had in Symbiostock has pretty much evaporated.
Forgive me if I have misinterpreted what I've read here and elsewhere - and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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Enlightens me who's now actually symbiostock developer?
Leo or Robin or both together?
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Leo i appreciate what you did. i really do but you are missing the point. I'm sitting here with a site that currently can go nowhere even if i wanted to convert because there is no converter for me that is ready. Even worse its being built by someone who as far as i know has no history with symbiostock at all. I might feel better when i actually see something real from the new symbiostock but right now i'm pretty #%$#@& about being left in the lurch.
Exactly how I feel. Sorry Leo, but for months you were dropping hints about the new, improved, fantastic, VAT enabled Symbiostock coming soon. Then out of the blue the photographers are kicked to the curb when you announce that this new version is for illustrators only and legacy users are once again wondering what our future holds.
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I don't really understand how it came about but obviously the two of them could not agree on the future of symbiostock. The way I understand it is this. Leo gets the software he had been developing to upgrade the original theme for the last year or so and Robin gets the name. Both entities can build off of legacy programming but Leo is contractually obligated not to offer future services to photographers. So this is what I would recommend. If you are legacy site owner and it breaks or you are having problems I think Leo is more than happy to help. If you are an illustrator looking to move forward GRFX is your branch. If you are a photographer looking to move forward then Robin will probably be who you need to deal with.
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I don't really understand how it came about but obviously the two of them could not agree on the future of symbiostock. The way I understand it is this. Leo gets the software he had been developing to upgrade the original theme for the last year or so and Robin gets the name. Both entities can build off of legacy programming but Leo is contractually obligated not to offer future services to photographers. So this is what I would recommend. If you are legacy site owner and it breaks or you are having problems I think Leo is more than happy to help. If you are an illustrator looking to move forward GRFX is your branch. If you are a photographer looking to move forward then Robin will probably be who you need to deal with.
Both can not act together to bring a good big deal (Symbiostock) forward?
Soon the developers symbiostock have developed quite to death.
a real shame...
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I can't comment on that because I dont know what caused the dissolution. Obviously Leo wanted out bad enough that he was willing to give up 3 years worth of branding and relationships.
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I don't really understand how it came about but obviously the two of them could not agree on the future of symbiostock. The way I understand it is this. Leo gets the software he had been developing to upgrade the original theme for the last year or so and Robin gets the name. Both entities can build off of legacy programming but Leo is contractually obligated not to offer future services to photographers. So this is what I would recommend. If you are legacy site owner and it breaks or you are having problems I think Leo is more than happy to help. If you are an illustrator looking to move forward GRFX is your branch. If you are a photographer looking to move forward then Robin will probably be who you need to deal with.
Unfortunately, while Leo said he was here to answer questions he went to trash Robin's knowledge and skills then told us if we had problems with our legacy sites we should go to Robin for troubleshooting.
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Well forum skills have never really been his strong suit have they? At least he is consistent in that regard. I freaked out last night when I read this too. I still have three legacy sites that work for me. Leo has assured me that he is willing to help legacy owners if they need it.
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Well, one thing is for certain. I may not approve of Leo's actions, but I do know him after working with SymbioStock. Robin, I know nothing about you, so you will understand I am not rushing forward into your flock. If anything, I am doing nothing right now.
Perhaps the two of you can remember WHY SymbioStock came into being. We, the sites holding the hot potato, might have to remind you after all ....
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There are lots of people who sell both illustrations and photographs (and video, and other media formats). This artificial bifurcation of the self hosted artist site based on two of the many media might make sense to the two who agreed to it, but it's just crazy.
As it stands right now I can't "go forward" with either path - not with Leo because I have things that aren't illustrations I want to sell and not with "Robin" because I have no idea who he or she is, what he or she can do (in micrsotock or as a developer). The fact that Leo and "Robin" are at odds does not inspire confidence.
I may take the time to remove the old Symbiostock logo from my site's front page, but other than that, I think I'm going to let some dust settle before doing anything. For the moment my site is functional.
What Leo and "Robin" should take to heart is that squabbling with each other is hurting both of your projects.
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There are lots of people who sell both illustrations and photographs (and video, and other media formats). This artificial bifurcation of the self hosted artist site based on two of the many media might make sense to the two who agreed to it, but it's just crazy.
As it stands right now I can't "go forward" with either path - not with Leo because I have things that aren't illustrations I want to sell and not with "Robin" because I have no idea who he or she is, what he or she can do (in micrsotock or as a developer). The fact that Leo and "Robin" are at odds does not inspire confidence.
I may take the time to remove the old Symbiostock logo from my site's front page, but other than that, I think I'm going to let some dust settle before doing anything. For the moment my site is functional.
What Leo and "Robin" should take to heart is that squabbling with each other is hurting both of your projects.
I am with Jo-ann on this, I have both photos and illustrations ... now I dont know what to do ...
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It sounds like both converters work for both media. Leos is done and is working. As far as I can tell Robin's is in beta. Leo's version is not allowed to create a universal search for photos. I was under the impression that Robin's was not supposed to support illustrators but from what I'm reading elsewhere that impression is not apparently an exactly accurate interpretation of the final contract. So in short although Leo was supposed to get the illustrators and Robin was supposed to get the photographers I believe people who choose the new symbiostock will be able to send both media types. Grfx will only take illustrations in its eventual universal search.
So the real question is what you really want for the future. If you want to go it alone either converter will most likely work for you. If you want a universal search you will want to weigh and consider which approach will best serve your images.
This information is what I have collected personally by reading all three forums and few conversations with Leo. I have not spoken to Robin regarding any of this so please be aware that while I am trying to enlighten the situation my information might not be entirely accurate. If anything I am saying is incorrect please feel free to correct me and I will edit this post.
Edited to remove what I have decided was a biased and poorly chosen set of words.
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Why am I now being forced to do a math captcha to log in to my own Symbiostock site?
You guys are out of control. Why can't you just leave the "legacy" site alone?
Expletive deleted.
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I just checked all three of my sites. None of them required a captcha to login.
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I am so tired of the hints and the guesses and the games. It's like a bad divorce. You get the house, I get the car and nobody wins.
The unspoken implication seems to be that nothing would stop anyone from uploading photos to Leo's version but photographers would not be part of the universal search and there is no built in function for model releases.
Robin has said that his version will support a variety of file types including jpg, tiff, ping and a few more but no word on any kind of universal search.
And pity the poor artist who works in multiple media. I guess they are forced to split their portfolio or look elsewhere for a solution.
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I just checked all three of my sites. None of them required a captcha to login.
So? Mine does. (http://vector999.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen-Shot-2015-04-25-at-8.59.38-PM.png)
Telling me yours doesn't makes it seem like you think I'm lying about it for some reason.
I've had it with Symbiostock at this point.
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Mine has the math question on the log-in page too. I'm wondering if that is something new with recent WP upgrades rather than a Symbiostock "feature."
I haven't updated my Symbio sites for a few versions now.
ETA, I checked my test site and it's not showing up there. I recently updated some plugins. Now I'm wondering if it's related to one of those, perhaps Jetpack or Askimet or one of the others that track activity.
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Mine has the math question on the log-in page too. I'm wondering if that is something new with recent WP upgrades rather than a Symbiostock "feature."
I haven't updated my Symbio sites for a few versions now.
I have another WP installation (no Symbiostock) for a blog and I now see the math question on that site's admin login too, so I think it has to be WordPress
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I am so tired of the hints and the guesses and the games. It's like a bad divorce. You get the house, I get the car and nobody wins.
The unspoken implication seems to be that nothing would stop anyone from uploading photos to Leo's version but photographers would not be part of the universal search and there is no built in function for model releases.
Robin has said that his version will support a variety of file types including jpg, tiff, ping and a few more but no word on any kind of universal search.
And pity the poor artist who works in multiple media. I guess they are forced to split their portfolio or look elsewhere for a solution.
Yes.
You really have four choices here.
1) If you are unhappy with your site and want to go it alone. Pick a converter and upgrade to any theme you like.
2) If you are unhappy with your site and want a universal search choose the option that works for your files. I also believe I read that Robin's version will eventually handle video. For multi-media I would recommend holding off of anything until the new symbiostock is ready. From what I understand this may be the best choice.
3) If you are happy with your site. Don't do anything and wait for a bit. There is no indication that legacy sites will stop working anytime soon. This is the option that I am choosing.
4) If you are an illustrator, consider the grfx hosted option or free plugin and create an additional site without the worry of losing any SEO juice. This is also what I have chosen.
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A fifth choice would be to take all of the drama out of your lives and use a different theme and selling media. There are other choices where you only need to be involved with the developer if you have a question and need help. :)
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A fifth choice would be to take all of the drama out of your lives and use a different theme and selling media. There are other choices where you only need to be involved with the developer if you have a question and need help. :)
Cathy, how is that option working out for you? I tried going to the link in your profile pic and it's not active. Couldn't find it in a web search either. Did you change your website or just decide against self-hosting altogether? I was curious to see how your site looked compared to Symbio options.
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ok i had a day to calm down, i have read as much stuff as i could find and seem to get what is going on. partnership, big fight, breakup and us children get the brunt of it.
i will watch and wait. i cant understand what could have been so bad to cause Leo to completely leave but who cares. it only affects me if i don't like what i see coming down the pipe. at that point i will either start over or go independent by one of the converters. but you can bet your &*^* that i won't be doing anything until i fully understand what the new symbiostock is all about
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A fifth choice would be to take all of the drama out of your lives and use a different theme and selling media. There are other choices where you only need to be involved with the developer if you have a question and need help. :)
Cathy, how is that option working out for you? I tried going to the link in your profile pic and it's not active. Couldn't find it in a web search either. Did you change your website or just decide against self-hosting altogether? I was curious to see how your site looked compared to Symbio options.
yeah cathy
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You arent really serious in hearing my opinion, but there have been other threads, fairly recently, about alternatives. You could just go get answers from people you have respect for. ;)
Or you could just keep on as you are, bitching and moaning. :D
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Mine has the math question on the log-in page too. I'm wondering if that is something new with recent WP upgrades rather than a Symbiostock "feature."
I haven't updated my Symbio sites for a few versions now.
I have another WP installation (no Symbiostock) for a blog and I now see the math question on that site's admin login too, so I think it has to be WordPress
My captcha is gone this morning and it's back to the old login, which leads me to believe it's NOT Wordpress.
Also checked my other, non sym site and the login also has no captcha.
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You arent really serious in hearing my opinion, but there have been other threads, fairly recently, about alternatives. You could just go get answers from people you have respect for. ;)
Or you could just keep on as you are, bitching and moaning. :D
no, you left symbiostock accusing everyone for fraud, been bitching and moaning ever since. You blamed everyone for not having sales but your self. So I am actually honestly curious if you made any sales with your non symbio site. The fact that you have been very quiet about your new site makes me think you sold zilch there as well. Cheers
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You arent really serious in hearing my opinion, but there have been other threads, fairly recently, about alternatives. You could just go get answers from people you have respect for. ;)
Or you could just keep on as you are, bitching and moaning. :D
no, you left symbiostock accusing everyone for fraud, been bitching and moaning ever since. You blamed everyone for not having sales but your self. So I am actually honestly curious if you made any sales with your non symbio site. The fact that you have been very quiet about your new site makes me think you sold zilch there as well. Cheers
You asked this question a long time ago here on this forum and i answered it. Do your research if you are truly interested.
Or you can just continue on diverting the thread and making it about me, instead of actually being serious about finding a solution. :)
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Mine has the math question on the log-in page too. I'm wondering if that is something new with recent WP upgrades rather than a Symbiostock "feature."
I haven't updated my Symbio sites for a few versions now.
I have another WP installation (no Symbiostock) for a blog and I now see the math question on that site's admin login too, so I think it has to be WordPress
My captcha is gone this morning and it's back to the old login, which leads me to believe it's NOT Wordpress.
Also checked my other, non sym site and the login also has no captcha.
I have had to add a captcha plugin to the login page in the last couple of months on a few sites. I was almost happy when it was thought that the wordpress update was doing it, but i dont think it is a wordpress thing either, but my sites just barely got updated on friday, so havent had a chance to check. Maybe the wordpress changelog will say.
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I have been waiting for the ultimate symbiostock version only to find out THIS weekend that it's not coming and that the current developer of symbiostock has no clue about developing nor photography. So I will look for alternatives as of now.
So did you sell on your new site yes or no?
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Also. What theme are you using please? I am sure you can appreciate that I don't want to dig through the forum to find your comment.
Cheers
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I have been waiting for the ultimate symbiostock version only to find out THIS weekend that it's not coming and that the current developer of symbiostock has no clue about developing nor photography. So I will look for alternatives as of now.
So did you sell on your new site yes or no?
Ron, in a thread on Symbiostock.org Robin said he has been a microstock photographer for 3 years, and is also a programmer and videographer. We haven't seen links or functional plugins to back it up yet but to be fair, how much do we know about who is behind just about any of the themes or plugins offered over at Envato.
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You arent really serious in hearing my opinion, but there have been other threads, fairly recently, about alternatives. You could just go get answers from people you have respect for. ;)
Or you could just keep on as you are, bitching and moaning. :D
I was serious with my question since I knew you had experience with Symbiostock and another option. I haven't read recent threads on other options lately as I too had been waiting for the new and improved option. I'll see what I can find there.
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I really don't know why Leo didn't just polish it up, make it useful to photographers in addition to stock photographers and sell it on themeforest. I think he would have made a killing.
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I don't really understand how it came about but obviously the two of them could not agree on the future of symbiostock. The way I understand it is this. Leo gets the software he had been developing to upgrade the original theme for the last year or so and Robin gets the name. Both entities can build off of legacy programming but Leo is contractually obligated not to offer future services to photographers. So this is what I would recommend. If you are legacy site owner and it breaks or you are having problems I think Leo is more than happy to help. If you are an illustrator looking to move forward GRFX is your branch. If you are a photographer looking to move forward then Robin will probably be who you need to deal with.
I tried to be fair & give robin a chance but he has refused to provide ANYTHING to legitimize his claims to be able to do anything with symbiostock
in addition he makes trademark claims (no trademark has been registered) for symbiostock despite the obvious fact that it has been in common use for over 2 years. ianal but it's unlikely he could actually get a trademark registered, so instead he's making ridiculous claims in his eula and trademark pages
anyone who wants to consider his new products should be VERY carefyul and read the licenses closely -- basically it says he can change ANYTHING in the licensing at any time an you have no recourse, which means, especially if you use his hosting system and 'global search' system he can charge whatever he wants anytime he wants.
I was ready to help betatest the new version until I read those documents. robin has refused to reply to messages left in the symbiostock forum, so i've reposted here as a warning for others. my 3 symbiostock sites plus co-op sites work just fine, so I wont be moving any of them. if some day WP evolves such that they don't work anymore i'll still have the complete db files AND both original and watermarked images, so can migrate elsewhere
i'll continue to operate the global SYMBIOSTOCK search for free for as long as there are legacy sites running. we have about 150 sites and over 250,000 images currently and are actrvley indexed by google. robin has confirmed that the 'new' sym will not produce the files needed to update either my or ajt's symbiostock.info search databases
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Leo has agreed to remove the grfx message from the latest update. The current update will result in a site that was exactly like it has been for over a year. No functional changes have been made to Leo's legacy theme by any recent updates. He has also agreed to maintain his legacy theme for those of us that would prefer not to change our existing sites. Future updates to the legacy theme will have branding removed and legacy sites will no longer carry the Symbio name. They will continue to function precisely as they have done for the last year.
It should be very easy for Robin to release a version of the legacy theme that he would control the updates for. Anyone who would like to go this route and have Robin be responsible for their updates and future support should let Robin know so that he can release and support his own version. The process for this should be as easy as switching out the themes.
Anyone who would like to convert to the new symbiostock from the grfx supported legacy theme will be able to do so at any time including future legacy updates.
Functionality and support for legacy sites will happen under the grfx umbrella but legacy sites will have zero affiliation with grfx other than support.
In other words if you choose to do nothing, your sites will continue to work as they always have and continue to be supported.
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Thank you for thoughtfully and productively voicing your concerns and ideas. After reading them I was able to come up with a solution that works.
Here is the final word on the issue:
http://community.grfx.co/branching-the-legacy-theme/ (http://community.grfx.co/branching-the-legacy-theme/)
Thanks for clearing that up for us Cascoly. I can't make heads or tales of intellectual property after riding the microstock lobotomobile and various other developments in the law. Thank you Dennis for posting the updates and response.
PS - Shelma - I'm glad you figured out your captcha -- those things can be annoying.
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Come on guys get this settled!
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It just got settled :D
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Okay great I hope Robin too!
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...... Future updates to the legacy theme will have branding removed and legacy sites will no longer carry the Symbio name.
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of course leo can remove the name if he decides to, but there is no reason any legacy site needs to do so -- we, collectively, have common law & prior use rights to this invented word. if robin wants the name removed, he's free to negotiate a price to do so with each symbiostock site owner
google currently tracks 194,000 links to the word symbiostock
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at least now it sounds like my current site will continue to be supported incase wordpress changes anything. as long as i am not left promoting a non-working site you guys can do what you want behind closed doors. i couldn't care less if my site says symbiostock on it or not. gotta say though i am somewhat glad that Leo has decided to at least keep some interest in helping the current sites.
devil you know... so to speak
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Mine has the math question on the log-in page too. I'm wondering if that is something new with recent WP upgrades rather than a Symbiostock "feature."
I haven't updated my Symbio sites for a few versions now.
I have another WP installation (no Symbiostock) for a blog and I now see the math question on that site's admin login too, so I think it has to be WordPress
It appears then that these guys (at WP) increasingly suck (too)! This is exactly why I froze all my blogs at WP Ver3.6.1 which AFAIK is the latest one that does not force any "auto updates" that are beyond my control. There are better ways of protecting against spamming scripts than stupid Captchas -- I am surprised I have to tell those "experts" over at WP.
Everything in the name of "safety". It already feels like the U. S. Patriot Act...
No one messes with my servers but myself :)
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I signed on with Symbiostock pretty early on. Not at the absolute beginning, but by June 2013 I had a rough-looking site up and running. It felt good to be part an indie community with a fine, supportive, and growing network of photographers and illustrators, each building our own, interrelated sites.
For almost a year, it seemed like something outstanding was happening. With the help of Leo, Jo Ann and others, I learned to customize my site and get the bugs out of it. Thanks to talented Shelma, I soon had a lovely new logo and watermark.
Then everything blew up. Whew! Nasty stuff. Some people dropped out, but many of us kept our sites going. Mine is still working fine and even produces sales for me.
At this stage of the game, I feel I know Leo. He has helped me several times, hands-on, with my site, and every time what he did was just fine. I trusted him before, and I continue to trust him.
Robin, on the other hand, is nobody to me. Came out of nowhere a few months back as "Leo's voice" on this forum. I don't know a single thing about him or her. (Is "Robin" a man or a woman???) That doesn't matter, of course, except to point how how very little I know about this person who without explanation has suddenly declared him/herself as the "sole owner" or "primary dude" or "first lady" of Symbiostock.
I tend to trust people who I know as individuals and whose work and support I know I can count on. In this case, that is Leo. For sure, it is not this mysterious, new-arrival, non-entity (to me) named "Robin".
For whatever time remains for my involvement with the beautiful thing that once was Symbiostock, I'm sticking with Leo.
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Of course we dont know who is Robin.
But we know somthing about the "previous developer":
Blackouts, and shut downs in the past. Then Introducing Robin and relaunching a new Symbiostock.
And now Symbiostock is sold to a unknown trademark holder?
Sorry iam not interested in a next (grfx) adventure.
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I'd really like to start selling direct and as a consequence I've seriously considered having a Symbiostock website. However, I've watched the Symbiostock shenanigans as an outsider all these months and, to be perfectly honest, the whole thing looks like a bit of a shambles. I may be wrong, but it appears that the developers are a brittle, bickering bunch who change direction at the drop of a hat and leave their user base high and dry at a moments notice.
Given this history, you'd really struggle to get me to sign up to Symbiostock. Stability and consistency are basic requirements from any potential business partner and I really don't see much evidence of that with Symbiostock. I'm afraid any enthusiasm or confidence I had in Symbiostock has pretty much evaporated.
Forgive me if I have misinterpreted what I've read here and elsewhere - and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Well said. I've been thinking exactly the same thing. Boy am I glad I didn't invest the time and money to build a Symbiostock site when I was seriously considering doing it. This thing looks like a fiasco, and it's disgraceful to just leave 'legacy sites', meaning early adopters who trusted you and invested in your efforts high and dry. Now you're chasing illustrators, but any illustrator with half a brain should look at your abandonment of photographers and steer clear.
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I signed on with Symbiostock pretty early on. Not at the absolute beginning, but by June 2013 I had a rough-looking site up and running. It felt good to be part an indie community with a fine, supportive, and growing network of photographers and illustrators, each building our own, interrelated sites.
For almost a year, it seemed like something outstanding was happening. With the help of Leo, Jo Ann and others, I learned to customize my site and get the bugs out of it. Thanks to talented Shelma, I soon had a lovely new logo and watermark.
Then everything blew up. Whew! Nasty stuff. Some people dropped out, but many of us, including me, kept our sites going. Mine is still working fine and even produces sales for me.
At this stage of the game, I feel I know Leo. He has helped me several times, hands-on, with my site, and every time what he did was just fine. I trusted him before, and I continue to trust him.
Robin, on the other hand, is nobody to me. Came out of nowhere a few months back as "Leo's voice" on this forum. I don't know a single thing about him or her. (Is "Robin" a man or a woman???) That doesn't matter, of course, except to point how how very little I know about this person who without explanation has suddenly declared him/herself as the "sole owner" or "primary dude" or "first lady" of Symbiostock.
I tend to trust people who I know as individuals and whose work and support I know I can count on. In this case, that is Leo. For sure, it is not this mysterious, new-arrival, non-entity (to me) named "Robin".
For whatever time remains for my involvement with the beautiful thing that once was Symbiostock, I'm sticking with Leo.
Same here, I had fun doing it and since I already had webspace, it cost me nothing but time to try. I'm happy to switch and stick with Leo's new venture, since at the end of the day there was/is nothing wrong with the code or the idea. I kept my Sym site up and running since the beginning, and truthfully I like the GRFX one better since I can choose themes easier and Woocommerce has a tonne of plugins as well.
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And now Symbiostock is sold to a unknown trademark holder?
robin does NOT hold the trademark for symbiostock, since there IS NO REGISTERED trademark. he CLAIMS that, and his ridiculous eula and trademark licenses try to make the claim but as of now he has no legal standing for that claim
robin had a wonderful chance to take on the abandoned symbiostock project but his refusal to provide even a minimum of information, combined with a total lack of history with the symbiostock project (he doesnt even have a legacy symbiostock site!) have left him with a very steep hi;; to climb to credibility - it's still p[possible, but his every move shows he's only in it to try to make some money off the project - he's eliminated the files that allowed open sharing of information, and has declared a new global search for a future project, but with no indication that this will be a free service
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Given this history, you'd really struggle to get me to sign up to Symbiostock. Stability and consistency are basic requirements from any potential business partner and I really don't see much evidence of that with Symbiostock. I'm afraid any enthusiasm or confidence I had in Symbiostock has pretty much evaporated.
Forgive me if I have misinterpreted what I've read here and elsewhere - and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Well said. I've been thinking exactly the same thing. Boy am I glad I didn't invest the time and money to build a Symbiostock site when I was seriously considering doing it. This thing looks like a fiasco, and it's disgraceful to just leave 'legacy sites', meaning early adopters who trusted you and invested in your efforts high and dry. Now you're chasing illustrators, but any illustrator with half a brain should look at your abandonment of photographers and steer clear.
I can certainly understand a wariness on the part of newcomers - but at this time, the symbiostock theme has been proven to be solid after 2 years of testing. it is still the easiest (and cheapest ) way of adding your own stock site and has the advantage of the symbiostock network of global searches run by ajt and me -- the 'new' symbiostock is unproven and does NOT have a global search, networking function
it requires a small amount of work, but no $ invested, unlike other solutions like ktools, etc, so should still be considered by those wanting to test the waters. and there are still plenty of symbiostock community willing to help newcomers get started
in addition, if you start a symbiostock site and later decide to move elsewhere, you will have full access to the database of your images, iptc data, etc that you have created, and that might help migrate to another solution
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I can certainly understand a wariness on the part of newcomers - but at this time, the symbiostock theme has been proven to be solid after 2 years of testing. it is still the easiest (and cheapest ) way of adding your own stock site and has the advantage of the symbiostock network of global searches run by ajt and me -- the 'new' symbiostock is unproven and does NOT have a global search, networking function
Yes its unproven but its normal because it new.
We should naturally observe exactly what makes Robin with Symbiostock.
But the old Symbiostock lost a complete year with stagnation instability and blackouts. And i dont know why?
Symbistock.info/old Symbiostock does not bring buyers no wonder it is not at all appealing enough for buyers to be able to keep up with agencies.
I do not need a hobby photosite i want a alternative to the big agencies!
Symbiostock.info/old Symbiostock needs to be further developed. But that does not happen.
So whats better proven stagnation or a new Symbiostock relaunch with a chance to attract buyers?
For me, the developer of the old Symbiostock have demonstrated that they have no idea of marketing or how to address customer/buyers.
I can not judge Robin's up with Symbiostock yet but I will look at it at least.
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Robin needs to come clean before I even consider trusting him. He needs to start answering some questions to begin with. Before that happens I distrust him.
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Robin needs to come clean before I even consider trusting him. He needs to start answering some questions to begin with. Before that happens I distrust him.
Totally agree that he should do quickly.
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...
But the old Symbiostock lost a complete year with stagnation instability and blackouts. And i dont know why?
Symbistock.info/old Symbiostock does not bring buyers no wonder it is not at all appealing enough for buyers to be able to keep up with agencies.
For me, the developer of the old Symbiostock have demonstrated that they have no idea of marketing or how to address customer/buyers.
...
symbiostock has been stable for more than a year - most of the sites from a year ago are still active
symbiostock is a tool -- it was ever intended to compete with agencies by marketing itself - instead it is up to individual site owners, separately or collectively, to provide marketing for their sites
as an aside, symbiostock.info is owned & operated completely separately from the symbiostock wordpress theme/plugin, and as such is an example of working together that was intended in the original symbiostock. that will not be possible under the new product since robin has said he is not making available the info needed. robin does say he will (eventually) provide a new search but whether that will be free like the established global searches remains to be seen (and according to the new eula, even an initially free search can be changed to a costly one at any time without warning)
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...
But the old Symbiostock lost a complete year with stagnation instability and blackouts. And i dont know why?
Symbistock.info/old Symbiostock does not bring buyers no wonder it is not at all appealing enough for buyers to be able to keep up with agencies.
For me, the developer of the old Symbiostock have demonstrated that they have no idea of marketing or how to address customer/buyers.
...
symbiostock has been stable for more than a year - most of the sites from a year ago are still active
symbiostock is a tool -- it was ever intended to compete with agencies by marketing itself - instead it is up to individual site owners, separately or collectively, to provide marketing for their sites
as an aside, symbiostock.info is owned & operated completely separately from the symbiostock wordpress theme/plugin, and as such is an example of working together that was intended in the original symbiostock. that will not be possible under the new product since robin has said he is not making available the info needed. robin does say he will (eventually) provide a new search but whether that will be free like the established global searches remains to be seen (and according to the new eula, even an initially free search can be changed to a costly one at any time without warning)
It is pretty clear at this point that the new guy (gal) has come in to make a profit, and it doesn't look like he (she, it...) will be overly considerate with existing users' matters.
Looking at "terms & conditions" (or reading the small print) always is a good indication of whether or not a business is trustworthy: in that ballpark, we have Robin's EULA and that doesn't look so good. So, yeah, me too would like to have a statement of that Robin-thing out there -- and fast!
Symbiostock (old-Dev!) is still a great thing, and I hope we can go forward with it "as usual" at some point.
EDIT:
After some downtime, the "symbiostock.org" URL is showing some content again. The quote below is part of it, I liked the "wonderful legacy user" part best...
Anyone seen this puke yet:
"If you’re a wonderful legacy Symbiostock user and are eagerly awaiting the new release, don’t jump the gun when you see an update available for your website. We no longer have control over the update feature connected to the legacy Symbiostock software which departed with a previous developer.
To keep up to date with the new release, subscribe to our forums or keep track of everything through our blog."
...and where everything is shoved down your throats -- even if you'd rather go for that "departed developer" there ;)
Ouch. That Robin-character out there must himself be *very seriously departed* (deranged) and appears even less trustworthy now!
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Obviously Leo wanted out bad enough that he was willing to give up 3 years worth of branding and relationships.
Sounds like yet another reason to steer clear of anything being "owned" or "led" by this mysterious entity named "Robin."