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Author Topic: Veer marketplace and %35 commission for contributors!  (Read 16683 times)

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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 18:58 »
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They charge UK customers 1 for XS and pay contributors 0.35 cents which is about %20 of the sale price 1

Hi All -

Actually, that's not quite right.
Apologies for the confusion, totally understood --- gonna try to help clear this up:

The royalty rates we announced are for the full-buyer side launch of Marketplace which will happen later this summer. As part of that launch the purchase changes to a credit based model. It looks like some of the confusion stems from this shift.

To clear up the confusion on credit prices in foreign currencies:

Credit pricing is based off US$.  Credits are sold in credit packs - with the smallest quantity pack starting at 10 credits.
The price we charge for a credit pack in Euros or GBP or CAD$ is just the US$ multiplied by the prevalent exchange rate for the month. We'll update the foreign currency credit prices monthly.

We protect you by always paying in US$ - and thus you are not subject to any foreign currency risk. We take all the foreign currency risk -  for example when rates swing wildly in a month. So because we are just converting at the prevalent currency conversion rate for the month,  all of the contributor royalty rates are the same no matter what the currency we charge is. 

Additionally, we have not announced royalties as a flat percentage, as the rate will vary with the cost of a credit. The more credits someone buys, the lower the credit costs, which in effect nets a higher royalty percent.


Aaron and I will get an updated version of the rate card to you soon that should lay this out a bit more clearly.


- Brian


« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 21:06 »
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"Veer.com has been recognized by buyers as one of the most user-friendly and well-designed sites in the industry.  Veer has been successful because it has always focused on the customer, on every level - from an inspiring brand, to design savvy marketing, plus good website UI, and superior customer service."

Its clear how Veer has placed the customer in first place, forgetting the rights and wishes of those that create and manufacture that which the customer wants. To continue making the customer happy you have to have the content that some of us are not willing to deliver for such prices. To those who are willing to work for almost nothing, remember the newspapers that are going under for distributing their information free on the Net. For Veer marketpalce - good luck in your search for slave labour. I for one will be out of Snap/Veerplace

m@m

« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 21:50 »
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"Veer.com has been recognized by buyers as one of the most user-friendly and well-designed sites in the industry.  Veer has been successful because it has always focused on the customer, on every level - from an inspiring brand, to design savvy marketing, plus good website UI, and superior customer service."

Its clear how Veer has placed the customer in first place, forgetting the rights and wishes of those that create and manufacture that which the customer wants. To continue making the customer happy you have to have the content that some of us are not willing to deliver for such prices. To those who are willing to work for almost nothing, remember the newspapers that are going under for distributing their information free on the Net. For Veer marketpalce - good luck in your search for slave labour. I for one will be out of Snap/Veerplace

You and I both sam38, the 35% commission Veer is so proudly offering contributors, "like if it was a big deal" may be for some people but definitely not for me, I've broken my slave chains a while back, so I will sell my photos on other sites that take my photos and hard work seriously and rewards me accordinly...and so far I'm doing very well. Good luck to you and your user-friendly and well-designed site.

« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2009, 13:22 »
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Let's just discuss.. Just do some brainstorming on why many of you so eagerly want to help veer become a success despite %35 commission and being nothing special..

Let's give the reasons to why support a new website that comes with an exciting %35  commission.

Since Brian loves to answer questions here and be friendly but he doesn't seem to notice my questions about commissions I thought we would just brainstorm..

I am sure Brian is aware that I wanted to help him to get an idea about vectors by starting a pole on reliability of rivals. And I am again sure Brian is aware that it is very natural that I am asking for %50 commission on the content I DID CREATE.. (not veer, me)

I don't know why are you people so loving to help veer despite they are getting your content for FREE and paying you %35.. I would like and extra website to sell my images as well (like all of you) so that's why convince me about %35 please.

Stand now! Do not submit! and they will have to come begging you with probably even more than %50 which you deserve. Why do you think they are here trying to market veer so desperately.

Veer needs you! You don't need veer at this point!

Hi Cidepix:


I don't mind talking about the Veer Marketplace royalty structure. Apologies if I missed your questions in other threads.

 
Now - about Veer: 

We disagree - we do think Veer is pretty special.

Veer.com has been recognized by buyers as one of the most user-friendly and well-designed sites in the industry.  Veer has been successful because it has always focused on the customer, on every level - from an inspiring brand, to design savvy marketing, plus good website UI, and superior customer service.

While Veer Marketplace is a new part of Veer, Veer isn't new at all. Veer has a passionate following among designers, photographers and illustrators - and has been around for 7 years now. Veer is actually a pretty big player - probably one of the larger stock sites around after Corbis.com and Getty/Jupiter.

We've created a royalty structure for Veer Marketplace that will help us build a long-term sustainable business, which in turn will help push more sales and more royalties your way. From our research, based upon not only royalty percentages and per credit royalties - but also image prices and subscription download rates - we're roughly on par with most of the biggest guns in microstock, as well on par with royalties paid out on the traditional RF or RM side of the industry.

We're going to be backing Veer Marketplace with high quality marketing efforts, great web design, high-performance servers and storage units. That doesn't come for free --- distributors like Veer or iStock or incur big costs to market content and create and support a loyal customer base.

As you have all seen with the ups and downs of this industry and with individual agencies themselves  - building a successful stock site is really hard work - it costs lots of $$, and takes time - some luck too! 

Of course - we'll need to build a passionate and supportive contributor community for this to work at all.... and as you all know - that will take time and lots of hard work too. ;)

[ It's certainly not as simple as responding to a few question on this forum by any means. It will take patience and some trust from all sides. ]


As others have said about Veer Marketplace already - "the proof is in the pudding".
We're a month away from launching the contributor side of Marketplace, and a few months away from launching the buyer side. I'd ask that before you decide you don't want to be part of Marketplace, consider waiting and checking things out yourself.

 

 - Brian


Hello Brian,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will be watching veer's progress but; had you said the commissions will be %50, I wouldn't have waited to see the progress.

No matter what the competition does, I honestly believe the image creator deserves at least %50 since the business would not have existed without us. You guys are making money on someone else's talent, and yet %50 is not enough for you! That is how I see it.

But thanks anyway, nice reply, in fact couldn't have been better considering your situation, being on veer's side.

Good luck!

lisafx

« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2009, 15:25 »
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Its clear how Veer has placed the customer in first place, forgetting the rights and wishes of those that create and manufacture that which the customer wants. To continue making the customer happy you have to have the content that some of us are not willing to deliver for such prices. To those who are willing to work for almost nothing, remember the newspapers that are going under for distributing their information free on the Net. For Veer marketpalce - good luck in your search for slave labour. I for one will be out of Snap/Veerplace

I just read Brian's post to be that the royalty structure has not yet been announced for Veer.  Am I missing something? 

I don't want to upload for slave wages either, but I didn't think that was what we were talking about here...

« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2009, 07:45 »
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Its clear how Veer has placed the customer in first place, forgetting the rights and wishes of those that create and manufacture that which the customer wants. To continue making the customer happy you have to have the content that some of us are not willing to deliver for such prices. To those who are willing to work for almost nothing, remember the newspapers that are going under for distributing their information free on the Net. For Veer marketpalce - good luck in your search for slave labour. I for one will be out of Snap/Veerplace


I just read Brian's post to be that the royalty structure has not yet been announced for Veer.  Am I missing something? 

I don't want to upload for slave wages either, but I didn't think that was what we were talking about here...


Hi Lisafx -

Sorry if that was confusing. We did announce the royalty rates - they have not changed.
I was mentioning an updated rate card that displays the per credit royalties as well as the credit pack cost in non-US$ currencies (the latter was missing from the earlier version). Royalties are set - check the initial post, and the documents up at the Veer Submissions page for more info:

http://submissions.veer.com/

I'll be offline for most of this week - but Aaron will have the updated card that includes foreign currency conversion for credit packs. He'll be checking in here while I'm offline.

- Brian

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2009, 11:41 »
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Ah.  I see.  Thanks Brian.

FWIW those rates seem pretty much in line with the going rates elsewhere.  I particularly like that subscriptions differentiate between sizes and offer larger payouts for larger images. 

The only one I might take issue with is the $10 payout on the subscription multi-seat extended license.  That should be $20 IMO.


helix7

« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2009, 01:23 »
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...No matter what the competition does, I honestly believe the image creator deserves at least %50...

If that's how you feel, then most microstock sites shouldn't be to your liking. Aside from a small handful (StockXpert, FP, etc), how many pay 50% or more? None besides StockXpert in the roster of agencies I work with. Why do you work with istock or shutterstock if low percentages are such a problem? SS especially, which most estimates put their percentage of payout compared to total image sale value at less than 20%.

It's the nature of the business. If 35% is insulting to you, then maybe this business isn't for you.


« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 01:26 by helix7 »

« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2009, 10:11 »
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...No matter what the competition does, I honestly believe the image creator deserves at least %50...

If that's how you feel, then most microstock sites shouldn't be to your liking. Aside from a small handful (StockXpert, FP, etc), how many pay 50% or more? None besides StockXpert in the roster of agencies I work with. Why do you work with istock or shutterstock if low percentages are such a problem? SS especially, which most estimates put their percentage of payout compared to total image sale value at less than 20%.

It's the nature of the business. If 35% is insulting to you, then maybe this business isn't for you.






I am not voicing an opinion for myself. I am voicing an opinion for contributors and THANK YOU for being so supportive by saying maybe this business is not for me. I appreciate that.

There is no point in talking about IS or SS, but there is certainly point in talking about veer because they are new and if we don't support them they will never make it. I will repeat: THEY WILL NEVER MAKE IT WITHOUT US. So they are new enough to discuss and ask for more.

If it was for people like me They would have absolutely no chance of making it to the top without paying me a good commission. But since It is for people like you they will definitely get away with %35.

And btw, %35 with current conditions can be acceptable if we have some kind of a warranty that it won't be reduced to %25 some day. Or the terms & conditions will not be changed twice a week like fotolia does.

Currently I have no reason to unquestioningly trust veer. I am not convinced about veer! What difference they can bring and what they can add to microstock world is a mistery.

Judging from their commissions (as they accept being in line with current models) apparently the difference they can bring is NOTHING!

If veer is going to bring something new for the buyers as they claim, they have to start with contributors commissions, by not being in line with current models and their commissions.

If you claim to be the NEXT BIG THING as a micro website, but you are OK with being in line with current models when it comes to our commissions, then you are not really the next big thing.

bittersweet

« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2009, 13:52 »
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cidepix...with all due respect, I beg of you, PLEASE go to the Veer website. Go straight to veer.com, not the marketplace page. Pretend you are a designer. Search for an image. Set up a lightbox. Try out the shuttleboard. Note how the search results are returned, and the emphasis placed on Marketplace, right within the main collection.

Veer has been an innovator with BUYERs for YEARS. This fact cannot be discounted as if it holds no value. Without customers, it won't matter if the agency pays you 90%.

Some of the stuff you are saying suggests tunnel vision. If you don't want to join up based solely on their commission structure, then fine, but I think some people make take a bigger picture into consideration.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 14:01 by whatalife »

RT


« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2009, 17:26 »
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There is no point in talking about IS or SS, but there is certainly point in talking about veer because they are new and if we don't support them they will never make it. I will repeat: THEY WILL NEVER MAKE IT WITHOUT US. So they are new enough to discuss and ask for more.


I am not voicing an opinion for myself. I am voicing an opinion for contributors and THANK YOU for being so supportive by saying maybe this business is not for me. I appreciate that.

I'm not sure you know who Veer are do you, they're not new and they've already made it in a big way. Whether you like their commission structure is up to you and you have the ultimate choice in deciding if you sell via them.

Just one other thing, you are voicing an opinion for yourself, you're not speaking for any other contributors.

« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2009, 17:32 »
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cidepix...with all due respect, I beg of you, PLEASE go to the Veer website. Go straight to veer.com, not the marketplace page. Pretend you are a designer. Search for an image. Set up a lightbox. Try out the shuttleboard. Note how the search results are returned, and the emphasis placed on Marketplace, right within the main collection.

Veer has been an innovator with BUYERs for YEARS. This fact cannot be discounted as if it holds no value. Without customers, it won't matter if the agency pays you 90%.

Some of the stuff you are saying suggests tunnel vision. If you don't want to join up based solely on their commission structure, then fine, but I think some people make take a bigger picture into consideration.

I am taking the bigger picture into consideration. That is why I am discussing it here. The reason I started a thread for veer is because I see they have the most potential amongst the sites out of big 6 or 7.

Once I am convinced about their approach and they will make sure they get lots of customers our way and be reliable with their terms and conditions then I will place my images on veer.

I mean it is obvious that Brian knows what he is talking about. Just go to the other topic about "fotomina!" and see the huge difference.

It is as different as black and white. That is why I am finding it well worthy to question the negatives about veer, as well as the positives. %35 iS a negative if you will excuse me.

And mind you, I don't even bother talking about other new websites. So If I am going to add a new one to my agenda, it is going to be veer.

btw @ helix7, sorry If I offended you in any way in my last post since I wrote it with ZERO sleep in the last 30 hours due to a project I was working on.  ;)

Thanks for quality discussion guys, anyway.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 17:48 by cidepix »

« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2009, 17:44 »
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There is no point in talking about IS or SS, but there is certainly point in talking about veer because they are new and if we don't support them they will never make it. I will repeat: THEY WILL NEVER MAKE IT WITHOUT US. So they are new enough to discuss and ask for more.


I am not voicing an opinion for myself. I am voicing an opinion for contributors and THANK YOU for being so supportive by saying maybe this business is not for me. I appreciate that.

I'm not sure you know who Veer are do you, they're not new and they've already made it in a big way. Whether you like their commission structure is up to you and you have the ultimate choice in deciding if you sell via them.

Just one other thing, you are voicing an opinion for yourself, you're not speaking for any other contributors.

Sure, I am not talking for you (instead of you) , but I am talking for you (goodness of you) since %50 unquestionably would be good for you. Or would you say %20 is better :)

For my veer knowledge, have a look at my previous post. They are owned by corbis, and that is why I bother to discuss it. Why would I waste my time for a discussion on mostphotos for example. I don't care if they pay %10 or %90.

But I care when it comes to veer because I will definitely make good money once I place my images on there and I would rather make %50 than %35. I guess you wouldn't, so let's not take it further.


« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2009, 17:46 »
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SS especially, which most estimates put their percentage of payout compared to total image sale value at less than 20%.

"Most estimates" ??? By who?

Can you actually support that statement in any way with links/quotes?

RT


« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2009, 18:04 »
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Sure, I am not talking for you (instead of you) , but I am talking for you (goodness of you) since %50 unquestionably would be good for you. Or would you say %20 is better :)

For my veer knowledge, have a look at my previous post. They are owned by corbis, and that is why I bother to discuss it. Why would I waste my time for a discussion on mostphotos for example. I don't care if they pay %10 or %90.

But I care when it comes to veer because I will definitely make good money once I place my images on there and I would rather make %50 than %35. I guess you wouldn't, so let's not take it further.

You don't seem to understand the basics of being successful in this business, the percentage received by contributors is indeed important, however it's not nearly as important as volume of sales, I'd happily take 35% from a site that I know will market and sell my images better than a site that pays me 50% but doesn't sell anything.

« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2009, 18:37 »
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Sure, I am not talking for you (instead of you) , but I am talking for you (goodness of you) since %50 unquestionably would be good for you. Or would you say %20 is better :)

For my veer knowledge, have a look at my previous post. They are owned by corbis, and that is why I bother to discuss it. Why would I waste my time for a discussion on mostphotos for example. I don't care if they pay %10 or %90.

But I care when it comes to veer because I will definitely make good money once I place my images on there and I would rather make %50 than %35. I guess you wouldn't, so let's not take it further.

You don't seem to understand the basics of being successful in this business, the percentage received by contributors is indeed important, however it's not nearly as important as volume of sales, I'd happily take 35% from a site that I know will market and sell my images better than a site that pays me 50% but doesn't sell anything.


I agree with all that but we have sites that pay %50 and are proven success stories. For example StockXpert. You can also add DT, BigStock and 123rf to that list as their commissions are better than veer and they are selling pretty good and getting better.

Kudos to veer though: the best subscription model. Seems even more promising than IS. It is a big hit. If they sell a lot of subscriptions they will sure generate very good money for us.

I will be watching veer closely. and probably contribute once I see them rising on the right side column.

What I was saying from the beginning is %50 would have got an instant support from me. But %35 only deserves my support when I see them rising and there is no doubt they will generate me some good money. Otherwise no point in wasting valuable upload time.

Since it is not good will (%50) but pure business (%35) then my approach will be the same, so I will wait for them to prove they are a big deal before I take any action and submit to them.

helix7

« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2009, 19:23 »
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...There is no point in talking about IS or SS, but there is certainly point in talking about veer because they are new and if we don't support them they will never make it. I will repeat: THEY WILL NEVER MAKE IT WITHOUT US. So they are new enough to discuss and ask for more...

Besides being false (you've really never heard of Veer before?), you're just picking and choosing which sites to support and which to chastise on a whim. One site paying 35% or less commission is ok with you, another isn't. Pretty convenient if you ask me.

...If it was for people like me They would have absolutely no chance of making it to the top without paying me a good commission. But since It is for people like you they will definitely get away with %35...

Nice try. Go ahead and keep spinning this like those of us who are on board with Veer are supporting something evil, all the while painting yourself as some kind of hero, standing up for a noble cause. Unfortunately your cause is misguided, and the rest of us aren't submitting to anything less than what we already do at many other microstock sites.

As long as you're selectively rallying against a single microstock company for doing exactly the same things many other companies already do, we'll continue to see right through your biased ranting. Not sure where your real hatred for Veer comes from, but it's pretty clear that it has little to do with commissions. If it was all just about percentages, you should have started at the real bottom of the barrel, like at SS or istock.



helix7

« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2009, 19:33 »
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SS especially, which most estimates put their percentage of payout compared to total image sale value at less than 20%.

"Most estimates" ??? By who?

Can you actually support that statement in any way with links/quotes?


Obviously there is no way to nail it down, but some people have been able to estimate an average approximate percentage at SS. They won't release any numbers about how many buyers use X amount of their daily download quotas, which would be necessary to figure out a more precise estimate, but there was some discussion a while back about some estimates based on info someone got from an SS insider. Yuri put his estimate at around 15% I believe, and considering how seriously he takes his statistics and strategy, I'd say that's a fairly believable number.



Milinz

« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2009, 19:36 »
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I will try veer marketplace as contributor... If they like my illustrations ;-)

And after I check that what math says I will stop with some other sites for sure!

« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2009, 21:06 »
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One site paying 35% or less commission is ok with you, another isn't. Pretty convenient if you ask me.


so what you are saying is, if we are already being screwed by the existing ones, we might as well get screwed by any new site and never try to change this vicious circle?

I would like it all to change of course but if we can not change a new one, how do you expect to change an established one. I don't hate veer, nothing close to hatred, I actually quite like them except commissions.

I didn't get banned from fotolia forum for being "only" against veer.

bittersweet

« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2009, 23:02 »
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This thread is getting more and more ridiculous.  :D

Here I am, an istock exclusive, trying to convince someone who has already made his mind up (based on half-baked theories and assumptions) that Veer is the next up & comer.

Why do I care whether he has a clue??  :P

I agree with RT that it's pretty funny that other sites have been getting away with much less than 50% for quite a while now and for some reason Veer has been singled out for scrutiny. I love how SS gets "woo yay" all 'round for their new marketing, when I mentioned Veer's similar promotion (which was launched first), it was less warmly received:
and please see, that they are giving $10 towards the content they get for FREE.

But that's okay. Maybe it will delay the floodgates at least 30 days.  ;)


« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2009, 01:04 »
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This thread is getting more and more ridiculous.  :D

Here I am, an istock exclusive, trying to convince someone who has already made his mind up (based on half-baked theories and assumptions) that Veer is the next up & comer.

Why do I care whether he has a clue??  :P

I agree with RT that it's pretty funny that other sites have been getting away with much less than 50% for quite a while now and for some reason Veer has been singled out for scrutiny. I love how SS gets "woo yay" all 'round for their new marketing, when I mentioned Veer's similar promotion (which was launched first), it was less warmly received:
and please see, that they are giving $10 towards the content they get for FREE.

But that's okay. Maybe it will delay the floodgates at least 30 days.  ;)





All I wanted to do was to discuss the %35.

Apparently I have no rights to even mention my disagreement with %35 commission. I also have no rights to mention veer in such a thread because apparently I didn't bash IS or SS enough in order to qualify for criticising veer.  :)

But you are right, this thread is getting ridiculous and it is all my fault.

« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2009, 01:39 »
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Can someone please explain to me exactly why it's so ridiculous to express dissatisfaction at a proposed 35% commission, and to at least attempt to get a higher rate?

lisafx

« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2009, 12:12 »
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Can someone please explain to me exactly why it's so ridiculous to express dissatisfaction at a proposed 35% commission, and to at least attempt to get a higher rate?

It's perfectly reasonable to want to get a higher rate.  But to go off in a rant like this thread started out because a site is offering about average what the other sites are offering seems rather odd.  And to expect people who are already making similar rates and even less at other major micros to rally around the cause is naive.

If the OP had started a general thread stating that we would all like higher commissions and do away with low sub royalties, and better yet a concrete plan to make that happen (similar to the Contributor Cooperative thread, for example) they would have probably attracted much more agreement. 

Frankly, I don't know who Cidepix is or why he/she would have a vendetta against this particular agency (Veer).  For all I know they could be a disgruntled former employee or work at a competing agency.  Certainly nothing they have said makes much sense to me.

And cidepix, as for complaining of "not having any rights" to complain about the commission structure.  Sure, you have every right to complain.  Tyler hasn't locked your thread, right?  Having the right to complain means you also should expect there will be people who disagree with you.  If you can't handle that then you would probably be well advised not to start controversial ranting threads in the first place.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 12:16 by lisafx »

« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2009, 13:42 »
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I didn't get banned from fotolia forum for being "only" against veer.



Your motives, logic, and business savvy seem very questionable to me Cidepix. It's great that you fashion yourself as a tireless crusader for our rights but maybe do a little research before you start spouting off about slavery and other b.s.

here are a few good places to start

newbielink:http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/index.jsp [nonactive]
newbielink:http://www.selling-stock.com/ [nonactive]

I realize that I'm just encouraging another nonsensical reply from you but I couldn't help myself. Take Lisafx's advice, she seems to understand this business a whole lot better than you do.


 

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