MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => VideoBlocks => Topic started by: Zach-VideoBlocks on February 12, 2015, 14:45
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Hi all,
I'm Zach Bernstein, the head of content at VideoBlocks. If our name is unfamiliar, we've been around for about five years as a subscription-based stock footage agency.
We're excited to announce that we've added a marketplace component to our business model. The marketplace is layered on top of our existing subscription content, a lot like Amazon Prime. This is a different kind of business model for the stock media industry, and we think it's one that massively benefits both buyers and sellers. Because we profit from our memberships, we're able to give 100% of the marketplace sales to contributors. We think you deserve it, and we're excited to support your success.
You can find out more details and start submitting content at: contribute.videoblocks.com.
To answer a few common questions:
1. We accept 4K and HD content. 4K is priced at $199, and HD is priced at $49.
2. We automatically downsize 4K to produce a HD version.
3. Everything you upload is published to the marketplace only. Your files won't end up in our subscription library.
4. The marketplace opens to buyers in April 2015. Currently, we're filling the library with content.
If you've got any questions or feedback, feel free to post in this thread or contact our support team at:
contributor [at] videoblocks.com. Thanks!
Best,
Zach
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The VideoBlocks vs. Shutterstock "earnings calculator" is cute, but really, do you think that someone who sells 50 videos on SS in a typical month would also sell 50 videos on VideoBlocks? That would be great, but I'm doubtful it's likely.
I'm not one to read CLAs closely (shame on me, I know), but clause 2.5 worries me:
2.5 Promotions. We may, from time to time, run promotions for Members and we may include your Content as part of such promotions. You agree and acknowledge that such promotions may affect the amount of Revenue you receive for specific Content.
That's very broadly written, and seems to allow for potential abuse (going as far as giving away our content for free). After dealing with Getty for years, and seeing what SS is doing with some of their (our) content on BigStock, I lean towards not trusting agencies any more. And in a case where the agency has zero financial incentive to sell our product (i.e., VideoBlocks makes the same -- zero -- whether our content is sold at $199, $49, or $0), the danger is multiplied.
Just my 2c.
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Hello Zach.
Will videoblocks be the seller?
I am asking because I am worried about who is going to pay VAT for EU-non-business-buyers.
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I am interested. In addition to the above, what kind of content are you looking for. I have everyday run of the mill stuff and animations. Are you looking for 5-30 second clips? Also, at $49 you'd be cutting SS by almost twice. Are you concerned that this will start a price war? I mean, look art Bigstock. They are giving away videos.
One more thing. There are a couple of new players here: Dissolve, Motion Elements, and Revostock. I am on all three, none really generate any income for me, although I only have 450 video clips. What is your USP? I have to look at this from the lens of Pond5 who does generate income. $49 is a fair price and comparable to what I price my clips at, but I need more sales because micro stock photos is killing me.
I suspect there is a fee (no I haven't checked out the site, Im leaving to work). Can you elaborate? How can you possible give contributors 100% if there is not a membership fee? And if there is a membership fee you need to build that into your calculator.
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Zach, I just read the licence terms, but it seems you dont accept editorial content? Is that correct?
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I am interested. In addition to the above, what kind of content are you looking for. I have everyday run of the mill stuff and animations. Are you looking for 5-30 second clips? Also, at $49 you'd be cutting SS by almost twice. Are you concerned that this will start a price war? I mean, look art Bigstock. They are giving away videos.
One more thing. There are a couple of new players here: Dissolve, Motion Elements, and Revostock. I am on all three, none really generate any income for me, although I only have 450 video clips. What is your USP? I have to look at this from the lens of Pond5 who does generate income. $49 is a fair price and comparable to what I price my clips at, but I need more sales because micro stock photos is killing me.
I suspect there is a fee (no I haven't checked out the site, Im leaving to work). Can you elaborate? How can you possible give contributors 100% if there is not a membership fee? And if there is a membership fee you need to build that into your calculator.
A lot of your questions are answered on their webpage, when you do get a chance to look at it:
https://contribute.videoblocks.com/faq/content-submission-requirements
Apparently there is a membership fee that people are already paying (I think; that isn't quite clear to me). But as I wrote above, that does mean that the agency in this case has no incentive to sell our clips at the quoted prices, and could (in theory) promote them heavily and often. I'm not at all saying they'd do that, just that the CLA allows it.
Revostock may be new to you, but they were one of the first sites to sell stock videos on the web, starting in 2006.
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Off topic: why does this threads have link rot buttons instead of agree / disagree ?
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Off topic: why does this threads have link rot buttons instead of agree / disagree ?
I was wondering the exact same thing.
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Zach, I just read the licence terms, but it seems you dont accept editorial content? Is that correct?
Forgot to mention: On the same page I linked to above, they mention that if you don't include a release with a submission that they believe should have one, they will either reject it or accept it as editorial. So I believe they do accept some editorial content.
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Cool, I might give it a go then
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I am interested. In addition to the above, what kind of content are you looking for. I have everyday run of the mill stuff and animations. Are you looking for 5-30 second clips? Also, at $49 you'd be cutting SS by almost twice. Are you concerned that this will start a price war? I mean, look art Bigstock. They are giving away videos.
One more thing. There are a couple of new players here: Dissolve, Motion Elements, and Revostock. I am on all three, none really generate any income for me, although I only have 450 video clips. What is your USP? I have to look at this from the lens of Pond5 who does generate income. $49 is a fair price and comparable to what I price my clips at, but I need more sales because micro stock photos is killing me.
I suspect there is a fee (no I haven't checked out the site, Im leaving to work). Can you elaborate? How can you possible give contributors 100% if there is not a membership fee? And if there is a membership fee you need to build that into your calculator.
A lot of your questions are answered on their webpage, when you do get a chance to look at it:
https://contribute.videoblocks.com/faq/content-submission-requirements
Apparently there is a membership fee that people are already paying (I think; that isn't quite clear to me). But as I wrote above, that does mean that the agency in this case has no incentive to sell our clips at the quoted prices, and could (in theory) promote them heavily and often. I'm not at all saying they'd do that, just that the CLA allows it.
Revostock may be new to you, but they were one of the first sites to sell stock videos on the web, starting in 2006.
Thanks, KB. Yea, I am new to RS...a year or so new. But regarding VB I find it hard to believe that we would be successful at that game. You are right about the lack of promotional motivation if it's just a membership fee-based outlet. I am done with membership sites for awhile. 500PX I paid and closed my account due to a couple of factors. FAA has seen the last of my money, too.....no sales. There has to be motivation to promote content.
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Thanks, KB. Yea, I am new to RS...a year or so new. But regarding VB I find it hard to believe that we would be successful at that game. You are right about the lack of promotional motivation if it's just a membership fee-based outlet. I am done with membership sites for awhile. 500PX I paid and closed my account due to a couple of factors. FAA has seen the last of my money, too.....no sales. There has to be motivation to promote content.
I wasn't clear, but there's not a membership fee for contributors, only buyers (as I understand it). I think the way it works (or will work) is that buyers pay their membership fee to be able to download the subscription files as they currently do, but will also have the ability to purchase non-subscription files (ours) once this becomes active in April.
But your point remains valid. It's crazy, but I wish instead of 100% commissions they paid 80%, so that they'd have a little reason to want our clips to sell (and at the regular prices they've established). Baring that, I'd at least want to see specific limits in that "Promotions" clause (e.g., they won't run promos for more than X days a year, and the prices won't be lower than Y% off). Otherwise, I think I'll be joining you on the sidelines for this one.
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The VideoBlocks vs. Shutterstock "earnings calculator" is cute, but really, do you think that someone who sells 50 videos on SS in a typical month would also sell 50 videos on VideoBlocks? That would be great, but I'm doubtful it's likely.
Out of the gate, it's probably not realistic that we'll match Shutterstock in terms of sales volume. But over time, traffic will grow and sales should increase.
I'm not one to read CLAs closely (shame on me, I know), but clause 2.5 worries me:
2.5 Promotions. We may, from time to time, run promotions for Members and we may include your Content as part of such promotions. You agree and acknowledge that such promotions may affect the amount of Revenue you receive for specific Content.
The language is intentionally broad, but truthfully, we won't go crazy here. Our goal is to be the most contributor-friendly agency there is, so we will never do anything to jeopardize our relationships. We know how you guys generally feel about Bigstock and others, and it's certainly not a feeling we want to be emulated. We don't have a full sense of what our promotions/discounts may look like in the future, but we will always keep the contributor's best interests in mind when making decisions.
We actually have a huge incentive to drive sales for you. The higher the sales volume, the more incentive there is for you guys to keep uploading, and the bigger and more diverse the library becomes for buyers. And the more appealing the library is to buyers, the more likely they'll be to become members - so there is a financial incentive for us as well. Driving sales is the key to making this whole thing work.
To confirm a couple comments:
- Yes, we accept editorial content (but of course we prefer releases whenever possible)
- It is free to join as a contributor. The fee I was referring to is a membership fee for buyers.
I think that covers all the main comments/questions, but let me know otherwise. Thanks for the help and discussion KB and others!
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Thanks, Zach, I do appreciate your reply.
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Hello Zach.
Will videoblocks be the seller?
I am asking because I am worried about who is going to pay VAT for EU-non-business-buyers.
Has this question been answered anywhere? It is now an important question for contributors in the EU as since January 2015 we have to register and account for VAT sales to all individual customers if we are effectively selling direct to the customer. Most stock agencies don't reveal the buyer's name to the contributor, the agency is effectively the seller and the agency deals with VAT accounting. Is this the case with Videoblocks? If Videoblocks does not deal with the VAT, it kills the possibility of me signing up as a contributor.
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4. The marketplace opens to buyers in April 2015. Currently, we're filling the library with content.
Zach:" Driving sales is the key to making this whole thing work."
And by looking at their career page - http://www.wearevideoblocks.com/careers/ (http://www.wearevideoblocks.com/careers/)
I very much like what I see.
These guys deserve our support 100%! :)
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Zach, I know you want to keep it simple but I feel your pricing for HD footage is too cheap. It of course matters what percentage we receive but $49 to the customer for all footage is too low. I would need to see some option for higher pricing. At this point I would pass on your company.
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"1 Year of Unlimited Downloads for Only $99"
I can not understand how that is working?
Can you please explain?
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This kind of advertising has to be explained to contributors as to how their clips will really be commissioned. 100% of $49 is already going to hurt the video market, but what about subscription downloads as per the ad? How will commissions like this be treated?
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This kind of advertising has to be explained to contributors as to how their clips will really be commissioned. 100% of $49 is already going to hurt the video market, but what about subscription downloads as per the ad? How will commissions like this be treated?
From the OP above:
3. Everything you upload is published to the marketplace only. Your files won't end up in our subscription library.
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This kind of advertising has to be explained to contributors as to how their clips will really be commissioned. 100% of $49 is already going to hurt the video market, but what about subscription downloads as per the ad? How will commissions like this be treated?
From the OP above:
3. Everything you upload is published to the marketplace only. Your files won't end up in our subscription library.
Thanks, KB. I am getting so knee-jerky these days and lack full trust in anything these agencies claim. Thanks for pointing that out.
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The language is intentionally broad, but truthfully, we won't go crazy here. Our goal is to be the most contributor-friendly agency there is, so we will never do anything to jeopardize our relationships.
There's nothing more "contributor-friendly" than having the "contributor-friendly" clauses explicitly stated in writing in the contract.
It's already bad for the contributors that the agencies change the contracts unilaterally in their favor in the middle of the game. Having from the start a really broad clause that gives room for abuse with only a guarantee given in a forum, that only a fraction of the people that sign that contract knows about, that bad things won't happen is not enough.
When the contracts are changed unilaterally at least we have a heads-up about where the agencies are going. When things are this broad from the start, who will remember your statement in this forum if something bad happens? And what's the real value of your assurance here? Won't the agency claim that people entered that contract voluntarily and that was what it was signed?
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This kind of advertising has to be explained to contributors as to how their clips will really be commissioned. 100% of $49 is already going to hurt the video market, but what about subscription downloads as per the ad? How will commissions like this be treated?
From the OP above:
3. Everything you upload is published to the marketplace only. Your files won't end up in our subscription library.
Thanks, KB. I am getting so knee-jerky these days and lack full trust in anything these agencies claim. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yes, for us contributors it seems it's a case of "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me 100 times ...".
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BlackJack & JoeClemson - we should operate the same as most other agencies, where we as the agency deal with the VAT accounting. Our finance and legal teams are doing a final re-confirmation just to make sure everything is squared away here, and I'll follow up with a definitive answer ASAP.
StockPhotosArt - we'll be reinforcing the messaging in-product (and through our actions as well), but your feedback here is certainly valid.
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Not that anyone cares what i think :) but I have been a VideoBlocks subscription customer for the past 2 years. Not only do they provide excellent service to the buyer, but there are some people that I highly respect (Luke and Marika Neumann for example) that have supplied footage to VideoBlocks. At the level at which the Neumanns and others operate, I highly doubt that they would work with any company/website that wasn't on the up-and-up.
I personally can't wait for the for the marketplace!
Just my two cents.
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Zach, I know you want to keep it simple but I feel your pricing for HD footage is too cheap. It of course matters what percentage we receive but $49 to the customer for all footage is too low. I would need to see some option for higher pricing. At this point I would pass on your company.
Zeus has a point. Even though the commissions are 100%, $49 for HD is a little low. Not cheap per se, but it could be higher. ClipCanvas sells for $69 or so, SS sells for $79 for a HD clip. Why not make the $49 a $59 or something?
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BlackJack & JoeClemson - to confirm, the VAT tax is not imposed on sellers. In all cases, we and/or the buyer is responsible for covering the tax.
Thanks Zeus & Noedelhap for the feedback on pricing. Our mission is to provide creative content that everyone can afford, but of course we want to benefit the seller too. A lot of data went into our decision on pricing, and we think $49 strikes a good balance between saving customers money and compensating you guys for you work.
elvinstar- thanks for being a customer for so long!
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Zach, I know you want to keep it simple but I feel your pricing for HD footage is too cheap. It of course matters what percentage we receive but $49 to the customer for all footage is too low. I would need to see some option for higher pricing. At this point I would pass on your company.
Zeus has a point. Even though the commissions are 100%, $49 for HD is a little low. Not cheap per se, but it could be higher. ClipCanvas sells for $69 or so, SS sells for $79 for a HD clip. Why not make the $49 a $59 or something?
I'll bump this to Zach. Why not? Why not higher prices?
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Zach, I know you want to keep it simple but I feel your pricing for HD footage is too cheap. It of course matters what percentage we receive but $49 to the customer for all footage is too low. I would need to see some option for higher pricing. At this point I would pass on your company.
Zeus has a point. Even though the commissions are 100%, $49 for HD is a little low. Not cheap per se, but it could be higher. ClipCanvas sells for $69 or so, SS sells for $79 for a HD clip. Why not make the $49 a $59 or something?
I'll bump this to Zach. Why not? Why not higher prices?
I agree. Customers in micro stock are already paying bottom of the barrel prices at $79 and I don't hear them complaining. All $49 is going to do, assuming VB gets some traction, is to force SS to lower their prices to remain competitive. So at $49 at SS, we would see a basic commission reduction from $23 to $14. And we'd have VB to thank for that. Personally I don't care that their study showed that people want cheaper HD videos. They are already paying $79.
Hey, I want a $500 GH4 and I bet most of the photographers worldwide do to. Does that mean Panasonic should lower their prices because buyers want that? No. They keep it where it is because people pay their marketed price. Now, if nobody bought them, they would have to lower their price, but that's not the case. And it's not the case with micro stock video either.
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Zach, I know you want to keep it simple but I feel your pricing for HD footage is too cheap. It of course matters what percentage we receive but $49 to the customer for all footage is too low. I would need to see some option for higher pricing. At this point I would pass on your company.
Zeus has a point. Even though the commissions are 100%, $49 for HD is a little low. Not cheap per se, but it could be higher. ClipCanvas sells for $69 or so, SS sells for $79 for a HD clip. Why not make the $49 a $59 or something?
I'll bump this to Zach. Why not? Why not higher prices?
I agree. Customers in micro stock are already paying bottom of the barrel prices at $79 and I don't hear them complaining. All $49 is going to do, assuming VB gets some traction, is to force SS to lower their prices to remain competitive. So at $49 at SS, we would see a basic commission reduction from $23 to $14. And we'd have VB to thank for that. Personally I don't care that their study showed that people want cheaper HD videos. They are already paying $79.
Hey, I want a $500 GH4 and I bet most of the photographers worldwide do to. Does that mean Panasonic should lower their prices because buyers want that? No. They keep it where it is because people pay their marketed price. Now, if nobody bought them, they would have to lower their price, but that's not the case. And it's not the case with micro stock video either.
I did a study around my household just now and the dog wants more walks, my daughter wants more data for her phone and I want a nap; none of which are going to happen.
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Hi Zach.
Thank you so much for your answer. :)
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Hi, Zach
I recently had some videos rejected for being interlaced (I usually render p). I have no problem with not wanting interlaced footage, but I think if interlaced video is not acceptable then it should be listed in the Technical Requirements part of the Submission Requirements page.
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Did anyone receive his April earnings?
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Did anyone receive his April earnings?
Yes. A few days ago.
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Thx.
I understand - my sales started on April, 14 - so they goes only to the June, 15 payout.
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Thx.
I understand - my sales started on April, 14 - so they goes only to the June, 15 payout.
A sale from April 14th should be paid on May 15th.
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So.. a month later - the same question - did anyone receive his payout? :)
Me - still not.
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So.. a month later - the same question - did anyone receive his payout? :)
Me - still not.
I did but Paypal has reversed the payment as suspicious and required me to go to their resolution center to put in my explanation of the payment.
You have received a payment that we believe may not have been authorized by
the PayPal account holder. Here are the details of the transaction we are
investigating:
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Transaction Details
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Buyer's name: Footage Firm, Inc.
Buyer's email: [email protected]
Transaction ID: 5B
Transaction date: Jun 15, 2015
Transaction amount: $xxx.xx USD
Your transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Case number: xxxxxxxxx
We recommend that you don’t ship the item until our investigation is
complete. If you’ve already shipped the item, please log in to your PayPal
account and go to the Resolution Center to provide the shipping details.
In order to continue our investigation, we need some additional information
from you.
Here’s how to provide us the information we need:
1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click “Resolution Center” near the top of the page.
3. Click "Resolve" in the Action column to view the information we need.
4. You can either fax or upload your documents to us.
You can fax your documents to us at:
Please include a fax cover sheet that includes the email address registered
on your PayPal account and your case ID number.
Here’s how to upload your documents:
1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click “Resolution Center” near the top of the page.
3. Find your case under "Resolution Center cases," then click "Resolve"
next to the request for documentation.
4. Click “Upload Files.”
5. Click “Browse” to find the file you want to send, and then click
“Open.”
6. Enter a title for the file.
7. Select the type of evidence, and then click “Attach This File.”
8. Attach any other files, and then click “Send Files to PayPal.”
Please provide this information within 7 days.
This payment will remain on hold and unavailable to you until we complete
our investigation. We will email you when we complete our investigation.
Sincerely,
PayPal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Help Center:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help)
Security Center:
https://www.paypal.com/us/security (https://www.paypal.com/us/security)
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I would edit your transaction ID because its unique to you. Videoblocks will not have the same txn id.
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Hm.. Mantis, it's really very strange.. And that I am out of authors, who had received their payments - it's also strange..
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I really hope this is not another case of ME.
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I've write to a contributor support - hope this helps..
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the problem was in too late approving of my tax-form - so, now all is good and I wait for July's payment.
Have anybody noticed sales go down after June, 10?
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So.. a month later - the same question - did anyone receive his payout? :)
Me - still not.
Yes, I have.
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So.. a month later - the same question - did anyone receive his payout? :)
Me - still not.
I did but Paypal has reversed the payment as suspicious and required me to go to their resolution center to put in my explanation of the payment.
I noticed I had Paypal notification about that too, but it seemed to have been resolved the same day without any necessary action on my part. How about you?
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Thanks Zeus & Noedelhap for the feedback on pricing. Our mission is to provide creative content that everyone can afford, but of course we want to benefit the seller too. A lot of data went into our decision on pricing, and we think $49 strikes a good balance between saving customers money and compensating you guys for you work.
One of the main reasons many new businesses go under, is that they set their prices too low. Don't make that mistake!
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Thanks Zeus & Noedelhap for the feedback on pricing. Our mission is to provide creative content that everyone can afford, but of course we want to benefit the seller too. A lot of data went into our decision on pricing, and we think $49 strikes a good balance between saving customers money and compensating you guys for you work.
One of the main reasons many new businesses go under, is that they set their prices too low. Don't make that mistake!
+1000
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My one and only sale on videoblocks just got refunded. :(
How often does that happen?
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My one and only sale on videoblocks just got refunded. :(
How often does that happen?
That's not good news to say the least.Haven't had that yet at vb.
May i ask after how many days did that sale get reversed?
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around 10 days? i posted somewhere that I just had my first sale.
Guess I am unlucky if it is not a common problem.
Obviously, if they always pay out everything, they cannot absorb refunds.
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around 10 days? i posted somewhere that I just had my first sale.
Guess I am unlucky if it is not a common problem.
Obviously, if they always pay out everything, they cannot absorb refunds.
I disagree, they should be able to absorb,depending on the circumstance of course.
For example if this reversal is due to technical issues they're responsible for selling this in the first place.
Of course we wouldn't know that's the thing with digital products.
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My one and only sale on videoblocks just got refunded. :(
How often does that happen?
Not sure but I also had a refund this week.
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I had a refund yesterday as well. I've had 2-3 refunds total over the last few months. The refund notice yesterday let me know that the video was never downloaded by the client.
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How long before the sale is cleared, refund-wise? I haven't had a refund yet, but it would be annoying.
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How long before the sale is cleared, refund-wise? I haven't had a refund yet, but it would be annoying.
For the refund I had yesterday it's been a couple of weeks since the sale was made.
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There should not be any refunds period except in the odd case in which a customer makes a mistake, stuff like that but in general whether it be in a physical or online store there are no refunds on software, music etc anything you download online.
Other than that I am VERY pleased with videoblocks, if only they would hurry up and approve the 4000 clips the the pending folder I left for them this weekend :)
Pond5 currently hosts near 30,000 of my unique clips but VB is catching up and in a solid second place, SS is flat.
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Seems fishy. I had 10 sales in Oct and zero so far in Nov. I did upload a lot in Oct so I wonder if I got a bump for it. So far very inconsistent.
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16 sales last month, 7 sales so far.. most of my sales are related clips from different angles (I suppose same buyer), so my sales can drop suddenly to 0.. I feel sometimes that it's only good luck.
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October was a great month for me, but 0 sales in November so far.
(Although everytime I complain about lack of sales, I seem to get one, so fingers crossed.)
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Same experience here.Massive drop especially during the past 10 days.
It could be that sales happen as long as people subscribe massively for a period of time and pick a few extra shots on their way out :)
Explains the massive consecutive sales of the same few clips during the past month.
Or not.
Can't figure them out anyway...
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Same here. A couple dozen sales last month and only 2 so far this month. Glad to know it's not just me.
I noticed last month that they started reporting my sales a day after they happened and a whole bunch of sales came in the last couple days of the month. Maybe they're trying to get a handle on returns by not reporting sales until they've cleared.
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Same here. A couple dozen sales last month and only 2 so far this month. Glad to know it's not just me.
I noticed last month that they started reporting my sales a day after they happened with a whole bunch of sales the last couple days of the month. Maybe they're trying to get a handle on returns by not reporting sales until they've cleared.
Yes i noticed the delay too for 2-3 days and also the major boost in sales during the last days,sometimes 3-4 sales of the same clip which has never happened for me anywhere to that extend.
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Meh....same here with the up and down but I am very pleased so far with Videoblocks, sales are a bit different at each site, maybe different customers, some maybe don't have the time to shop around, not sure but P5 is still #1 for me but VB is now in solid second place. Pricing may be a factor as well, VB has decided on $49 for all clips, their market research must have guided them to that conclusion. The challenge now is getting absolutely everything uploaded there and all keyworded, there is only one of me. SS is not doing well for me at all right now.
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I joined VB end of last month and went on an uploading spree with around 1000 clips live so far - consequently have had 10 sales so far which really surprised me. If indeed it's a bump since my content is all fresh I wouldn't be surprised to see a much quieter December. We'll see.
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I joined VB end of last month and went on an uploading spree with around 1000 clips live so far - consequently have had 10 sales so far which really surprised me. If indeed it's a bump since my content is all fresh I wouldn't be surprised to see a much quieter December. We'll see.
December is quiet here so far on VB for me but it's early, last month was record sales! amazing how the sales at each site go up and down month to month. At least I am on three sites although SS doesn't really do anything for me. Need a 4th site.