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Author Topic: Waste of time?  (Read 16510 times)

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« on: October 14, 2008, 04:41 »
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What did you guys think?
Uploading to zymmetrical is a waste of time or this site is given $$$$ to people?


« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 05:04 »
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I am with Zym for about 2 months. I have 510 images online and I earned 4 or5 $ until now.
the upload is very easy... so I think its worth my time.

I like zym im some way...  :)

« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 05:11 »
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After 12 months i was with them and no a single sale, my answer is yes it's  a total waste of time.  >:(
Before a week i have closed my account with them.

« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 05:23 »
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Humm!

50/50 until now!
Tank you for your input.

Maybe this business is like fortune games. Some have luck in certain sites and others is a total waste of time.

« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 07:18 »
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After 12 months i was with them and no a single sale, my answer is yes it's  a total waste of time.  >:(

Cannot agree more. I have yet to cancel my account there.

« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 07:46 »
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100 on line, 3 sales and $ 44 on bank. In the same period better than some agencies  like CT,BigStock,CanStockPhoto. Did not reach the level of my top 6 yet

« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 08:20 »
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If you plan on uploading your images to a dozen or more sites, then it is probably worth it.

If you plan on sticking to the Big 5 or 6 sites, then it definitely isn't worth it.

Either way, it will probably take months or years for a payout (depending on the number of photos that you have, their quality, their stock-worthiness, and where they show up in the search results).  And there is always a possibility that they go under before you reach a payout.

FYI: The site doesn't even rate in the Microstock Poll Results (on the right side of this thread).

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 09:15 »
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I normally don't like to step in on a 'whats your opinion of this site' conversation, but GeoPappas you should be aware we pay all our Artists, all the money they are owed, -whenever- they ask for it.   This includes making exceptions to our $10 minimum.   It is not our money it is yours. If you are really in need of <$10, you must be a student, or in a situation where those few dollars means more to you then one would normally expect, so it is worth our effort to send this money.  And yes it is scalable to do this (just don't request one penny at a time plz!). 

If you plan on uploading your images to a dozen or more sites, then it is probably worth it.

If you plan on sticking to the Big 5 or 6 sites, then it definitely isn't worth it.

Either way, it will probably take months or years for a payout (depending on the number of photos that you have, their quality, their stock-worthiness, and where they show up in the search results).  And there is always a possibility that they go under before you reach a payout.

FYI: The site doesn't even rate in the Microstock Poll Results (on the right side of this thread).


gbcimages

« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 09:41 »
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It was a waste of my time

« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 09:55 »
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WHOA... if my experience is typical I've requested one payout and received it within 4 hours so I can tell you from personal experience that there is no trouble receiving payouts and you can request them with as little as $10 in your account.

These guys seem to have a vision.  Keith is very good at communication and they actually listen to site suggestions.  Also, they may not be the most known name but their search engine placement ranks 1-5 depending on the search engine you use.

I will also support them for the fact that they pay 70% commission.  Unlike Featurepics, they have been able to sell my photos.

« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 12:46 »
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I normally don't like to step in on a 'whats your opinion of this site' conversation, but GeoPappas you should be aware we pay all our Artists, all the money they are owed, -whenever- they ask for it.   This includes making exceptions to our $10 minimum.   It is not our money it is yours. If you are really in need of <$10, you must be a student, or in a situation where those few dollars means more to you then one would normally expect, so it is worth our effort to send this money.  And yes it is scalable to do this (just don't request one penny at a time plz!). 

If you plan on uploading your images to a dozen or more sites, then it is probably worth it.

If you plan on sticking to the Big 5 or 6 sites, then it definitely isn't worth it.

Either way, it will probably take months or years for a payout (depending on the number of photos that you have, their quality, their stock-worthiness, and where they show up in the search results).  And there is always a possibility that they go under before you reach a payout.

FYI: The site doesn't even rate in the Microstock Poll Results (on the right side of this thread).




I'm not sure what you are responding to, but I never stated (or implied) that you don't pay artists.  I just stated that it will probably take a while before someone will reach a payout (if ever).  I was working from your own legal document for artists (@ http://www.zymmetrical.com/help/legal/), which states the following:

"The minimum payout is $20 USD per request. If Artists account is closed for any reason before the account balance has reached $20 USD , Artist shall forfeit such account balance."

So your statements above seem to go against your own legal document.  If you really mean what you state above, then you probably should update your legal document to state that.

BTW: While I was on your site, I decided to do a simple search.  I searched for the word "blue" and received a "DotNetNuke Configuration Error".  If you plan on making any sales, you might want to make sure that your search engine works.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 13:56 »
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Well my friend, it's a little bit like the 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' signs on the front of a 7-11:    if you are a smelly old man reeking of alcohol, and enter the premises with no shirt on, you will be likely be evicted. If you are however Pamela Anderson, the teenage clerk will probably not engage the letter of the 'rules'.    Therefore I continue to try and get across that all kinds of rules are bent in the world daily, and in this case it's in favor of the Artists, so pressing your critique on this matter can not really progress much further past you helpfully pointing out this outdated figure in our legal text (thanks!).

The search engine mishap is by design, anyone looking at our Legal page for too long is assumed to be a lawyer and then auto-blocked. :)     (joking..).      The real cause is known and was another hiccup.

« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 18:53 »
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i started uploading but gave up after rejection rates of 13-15 -- they were rejected for lighting, composuition & not stockworthy -- ogf course i only sent images that were accepted by most of the big6!   not worth my time trying to figure out what they want when there are so little sales reported.

i'll let others experiment and will jump in if they actually start to sell [i'm currently doing my bit with cutcaster, yay and most]

steve

hali

« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2008, 10:37 »
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These guys seem to have a vision.  Keith is very good at communication and they actually listen to site suggestions.

Like someone said, to ask if xx site is good or a waste of time, it's different with everybody. some like SS other don't,etc.. The same with Zym.
I am new , and with micro my sales are just beginning to come in.
I got "slaughtered" too with my initial submissions of "images accepted by the top5" ,
and got quite miffed and wrote them to say, "you know what? delete my account. you guys
are too much to me", or something like that.

I expected them to cancel my account like most cocky businesses.
 But no, instead I got a long quick response from Keith explaining their credentials and
inviting me to reconsider.
Just on that, I gave Keith the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, how many times do you get a CEO writing you to ask you to stay?
Even a fella tossing burgers who asks to quit his job won't get his boss calling him and
asking him to "reconsider".

So, my response... after a long explanation, lol... is like Pixart.
Keith is communicative, I think I will continue my upload.

P.S. late update. Guess what, I got 8 approval with my latest upload.
Not because Keith got soft, but because I took his explanation to heart,
and really gave him my best images , rather than "images the Big 5 accepted".


« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2008, 11:03 »
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Even a fella tossing burgers who asks to quit his job won't get his boss calling him and
asking him to "reconsider".
..happened on Spongebob  :)

« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2008, 11:07 »
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Even a fella tossing burgers who asks to quit his job won't get his boss calling him and
asking him to "reconsider".
..happened on Spongebob  :)
Thanks.  Now I've got that stupid song in my head.

hali

« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2008, 11:31 »
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Even a fella tossing burgers who asks to quit his job won't get his boss calling him and
asking him to "reconsider".
..happened on Spongebob  :)
Thanks.  Now I've got that stupid song in my head.
;D
you made my day !   ;D

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2008, 14:45 »
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Lol well anyone can be a "CEO" for $399 these days. :)   I'm just glad we are still at the point where dealing with the people who drive our marketplace has not yet been relegated to a callcenter-type approach. There is no shame in making an extra effort to solve things with members - maybe the normal route is to project an image of jet-setting upper management who are so inherently successful that day-to-day issues are below them, but especially with the world economy in the toilet, no one cares about that type of ego projection. We are here to get a job done and improve the business, and in our case the cornerstone of our business is member-generated content so you better believe we will make an extra effort to keep y'all interested and engaged.


These guys seem to have a vision.  Keith is very good at communication and they actually listen to site suggestions.

Like someone said, to ask if xx site is good or a waste of time, it's different with everybody. some like SS other don't,etc.. The same with Zym.
I am new , and with micro my sales are just beginning to come in.
I got "slaughtered" too with my initial submissions of "images accepted by the top5" ,
and got quite miffed and wrote them to say, "you know what? delete my account. you guys
are too much to me", or something like that.

I expected them to cancel my account like most cocky businesses.
 But no, instead I got a long quick response from Keith explaining their credentials and
inviting me to reconsider.
Just on that, I gave Keith the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, how many times do you get a CEO writing you to ask you to stay?
Even a fella tossing burgers who asks to quit his job won't get his boss calling him and
asking him to "reconsider".

So, my response... after a long explanation, lol... is like Pixart.
Keith is communicative, I think I will continue my upload.

P.S. late update. Guess what, I got 8 approval with my latest upload.
Not because Keith got soft, but because I took his explanation to heart,
and really gave him my best images , rather than "images the Big 5 accepted".



« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 15:46 »
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In theory things are always too easy..!
The question is how to make a theory working.

hali

« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2008, 09:40 »
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the only thing i don't like about zym is the upload is erratic. it's the only site that screws up on and off when you upload . it's frustrating to spend time uploading and then finding out it's not working again.  i used ctrl F5 to no avail.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2008, 09:59 »
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Hi Hali,

Sorry for any inconvenience. In general I don't know of any outages, files are rolling in by all methods as normal today (including by the ultimate bug-free method, post :) ).   If you contact us direct with details such as which upload method failed, error messages, and info about your local setup we can assist better. 

« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 19:10 »
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Keith....  one question, please....  is Mr. P. Melcher still associated with your organization? 8)=tom

« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 03:11 »
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I have been reasonably pleased with zymmetrical so far.  Not many sales but at higher prices than the micros and 70% commission I am up to $77.  That was with around 250 uploads.  They don't accept everything and have found tiny faults that istock missed, so the reviewers have a good eye.  That might put some people off but it does mean the buyers there should be pleased with the quality they get.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2008, 04:11 »
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Yes of course.

Keith....  one question, please....  is Mr. P. Melcher still associated with your organization? 8)=tom

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2008, 04:17 »
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They really are excellent at what they do, and we are always going on their feedback to improve the Editorial policies based on sales and buyer feedback. About the only big mental knot that's come up thus far is defining just how many 'similars' is too many - you could probably debate the finer points of that till eternity.   In the end, we decided on to err -slightly- on the side of overabundance. Better to have a bit too many, and let the search engine/algorithm deal with it, then to have too few choices and lose a sale outright.
 
I have been reasonably pleased with zymmetrical so far.  Not many sales but at higher prices than the micros and 70% commission I am up to $77.  That was with around 250 uploads.  They don't accept everything and have found tiny faults that istock missed, so the reviewers have a good eye.  That might put some people off but it does mean the buyers there should be pleased with the quality they get.

« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2008, 12:37 »
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RT


« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2008, 12:38 »
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Yes of course.

Keith....  one question, please....  is Mr. P. Melcher still associated with your organization? 8)=tom

I think the reason for Tom's question is the recent blog by P.Melcher and his low opinion on anybody that shoots for stock, if you haven't read it you should, I laughed my head off when I found out the same guy has been involved in running stock agencies.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2008, 13:16 »
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I really do not have much time to read blogs, including the dubious task of 'looking for a controversial post on Paul's blog'. It'd take up most of the day i'm sure.    8)     

Of course I must look now: if you mean the second latest post there, I think you may to need to re-read if you find it offensive as a 'microstocker' - made more sense on the second scan-through for me. At any rate, why not comment on it and prove him wrong, if it's fired you up a bit? 

« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2008, 14:17 »
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Could someone post a link to the blog in question please?

« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2008, 14:28 »
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Hi,

Aka Tom and others that read my blog.
 If you read it well, it is intended at traditional pro stock shooters, and not at Micro stock shooters. Obviously, I would not have entered this business if I thought all shooters should rethink their strategies.
What you should consider funnier is when traditional pro stock shooters are begging microstock agencies to raise their prices dramatically in order to save their income.
http://www.microstockdiaries.com/can-intervention-save-the-stock-photography-industry-from-microstock.html
It is a pathetic attempt to preserve the "gentleman club" that stock used to be.
Our sales, our traffic and our company otherwise, is doing very well. so much so that we now have photo agencies contacting us to be part of our offering. They appreciate that they can be part of the same search with different pricing point and that image buyers can decide for themselves what image they like, regardless of its cost.
It is not "all for $1" or "all for $500" but a very wide range of options.
Buyers like to be able to pick and choose between pro and non pros, compare and shop, all from one location.
Indeed, we are not on the top 6. Not yet.  We do not promise anything that we cannot deliver. We have taken the slow and prudent growth rather than the "mutli million investors" cash and burn model that so many have failed before. It might take some time to reach the top of the ladder, but neither Keith nor I have any doubts that we will make it.
We both remain available for any suggestions, comments and criticisms. anytime.

« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2008, 15:57 »
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I  am aware that this site has HIGH standards, but I think as a small site they are way too restrictive.  I uploaded 7 shots that were all good sellers elsewhere, and all 7 were rejected as not up to their quality.  I just checked on those 7 images at the Big 6 sites that have approved them, and each has sold 10 or more times.

I doubt if they will last if they turn away decent content on a daily basis.......and I have not recommended the site to anyone for that very reason.

RT


« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2008, 16:00 »
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Hi Keith and Paul,

The blog hasn't got me fired up, far from it, some parts of it I agree with, what made me laugh was when I found out who the author was, I must be honest I'm surprised for such a strong opinion from somebody heading up a stock agency.

You are right about the "gentlemens club" persona that some want to maintain, but it's my experience that these are not the one's that pose a threat to anybody other than themselves.

I do think though that your tone will offend many very professional pro photographers that have been aware of microstock and have been contributing for a long time, I also think your stance on those that shoot stock because they can't get clients is way way off track and in a lot of cases the opposite is true.

I am intrigued as to what the intention of the blog was and whether you think it may have backfired a bit.

Either way you've certainly got a few fired up on the Alamy forum which in itself is always good for a laugh.


zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2008, 16:18 »
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hi Jeff,

I would like to relate a story:

I sat with an experienced old-school RF guy, who has made literally millions with CD sales. He pointed across the river, and showed me the landmark in his hometown, where he made his first 'bigtime' photo sale: $8000 for one shot, of a public building that is obviously available for anyone to shoot. He came to us, because, like many of the old school crew, his sales were being eroded by microstock. A trickle at first, then a problem:  multi-thousand dollar monthly royalty cheques reduced to hundreds.   

I was quite happy that he would want to sell with us, and gladly got his photos into the queue on his behalf.  A day later, he contacts me "What's goin' on, you've rejected 50% of my batch so far". I probably blushed on the phone, and assured him I would investigate and find the Reviewer team member responsible, and hang them by their <family friendly edit>.

Turns out, our Review team was absolutely correct: out of focus, chest hair visible on the poor slide scans, etc. But, these exact photos, had something like 800+ downloads on a certain big microstock site that he submitted to a year before. Hmm.. what to do?      The answer is: if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. We can only guess that those 800+ downloaders we're happy to have only paid $1 to find last nights body hair embedded in the images.. after all, it's only a small chunk of change.            We have found that the $40 - $50 range moves like hotcakes for a wide range of clients - and we simply cannot reduce our quality standards to some kind of 'common acceptance rate' as an average of the top agencies  - because, unlike some other agencies, we eat every single chargeback or customer refund complaint that is valid.   

Jeff, I am not implying your photos had such obvious defects, I have thus far not been alerted to a discrepancy between your expectations and our Review team actions, but the point is, pixels are cheap and opinions are always available on the internet: if you could post some of these rejects we are always willing to discuss why they didn't make the cut. Of course we can never be the definitive accepted guide to good stock until we are number one in the industry, but it's for this exact reason we try to be different and uphold a quality over quantity ethos.


I  am aware that this site has HIGH standards, but I think as a small site they are way too restrictive.  I uploaded 7 shots that were all good sellers elsewhere, and all 7 were rejected as not up to their quality.  I just checked on those 7 images at the Big 6 sites that have approved them, and each has sold 10 or more times.

I doubt if they will last if they turn away decent content on a daily basis.......and I have not recommended the site to anyone for that very reason.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 16:23 by zymmetrical »

« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2008, 17:23 »
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Keith....

Classy of you to respond and to monitor the boards for people - like me - who are a bit taken aback by the very high standards of your site.

However, since you were nice enough to respond, I'm going to give it another try with a eye for quality above all else. I'll upload a handful of my very best shots (no visible defects or body hair, I promise) and see how these fare with your review team. 

Jeff

hali

« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2008, 17:48 »
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Keith....

Classy of you to respond and to monitor the boards for people - like me - who are a bit taken aback by the very high standards of your site.

However, since you were nice enough to respond, I'm going to give it another try with a eye for quality above all else. I'll upload a handful of my very best shots (no visible defects or body hair, I promise) and see how these fare with your review team. 

Jeff

Jeff, i have to admit, i was one of those who wanted to , in Keith's own words, "hang ZYmmetrical
et co...by the ...."
in response to my email, Keith said in almost the same words and stood by his reviewers.
I submitted new images taking what Keith said to heart.
also that he was , in your own words, "nice enough to respond"...
and in my own words, i said exactly as you just said, " i 'm going to give it another try".

conclusion: i got some acceptances, and still some rejections. but this time, it didn't sound so unfair
, simply because Zymmetrical wants NOT to be like other microstock sites.

I like that attitude. I also admire someone who is not afraid to stand by his crew,
as motley as they seem to be , to us.  ;D

cheers Keith ! your participation and open communication are what we need here, big time!

p.s.
incidentally Keith, i am still having i/o error messages trying to upload new images last night. you fixed it once before, with the Ctrl F5 but this time that did not work still. i will email you so your IT can solve it.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 17:54 by hali »

« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2008, 16:20 »
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Aka Tom and others that read my blog.

didn't read it. didn't know anything about it.  this is the only forum/blog i read. don't have the time to spend out there surfing the web. Thanks for your comment though. appreciated..  8)=tom


 

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