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Author Topic: Zymm rejections  (Read 35467 times)

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« Reply #100 on: January 03, 2009, 08:31 »
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Milinz, I think we talked enough about your cevapcici. Yes, I adore cevapcici, and they look tasty to me on your image because I know how they should look like. They look on your image exactly how they look like on real BBQ. Ok, you didn't take this image from some extraordinary angle, but the image is OK. You could crop it just a little on the right side, on on both sides like this designer did here http://www.ichkoche.at/Cevapcici-Kroatien/rezepte/detail/html/93283 because cevapcici are spread over BBQ pretty evenly, and it looks bit strange that you leaved those uneven spaces on the sides of the image. No matter you had expensive light equipment, because of non existing crop, and because of an angle, this image could look like a snapshot to someone. Maybe the reviewer should recognize a state of art in this image because he is paid to do it. But for God's sake, how long we will discuss this image? If it's your good seller you will continue to sell it on other sites, and Zymmetrical will  be without this image, that's all. Is it so important for you to sell this image exactly on Zymmetrical?? I don't get you really. If they don't want this image why you so badly trying to prove them that your cevapcici look tasty on this image? Reviewers are human beings and they will always make mistakes. What I know, is that some of reviewers on Zymmetrical are (or were) most remarkable reviewers on some other very well known agency that you like so much. So, it's the same people basically. Why don't you leave it this way, and leave Zymmetrical without this image? If you want, you can continue to upload to Zymmetrical, or you can stop it. The choice is yours. They rejected many of my images, so what? I have those images on other sites and they sell. You act like this is the only image that is important to you. I mean, I don't know what you trying to prove? Are you trying to prove that your image of cevapcici is so remarkable, or you want to prove that some reviewer on Zymmetrical should be fired, or you want to prove that Zymmetrical is poor agency, or you maybe want to show to everybody that you are from here (Balkan peninsula) and that we are able to get through the wall with our heads and to lose days to prove something that isn't important to anybody else?


Iriz

    This user is banned.
« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2009, 08:33 »
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On the other side of this story, I really can compete with cream photgraphers in most categories.

I am as good as you or someone else who do stock.

I think not. Your photography is, ehmm, how do I put this, without meaning to offend......?

shite!

Great illustrations if you're into loadza bling like my 5 year old daughter is but I'm afraid your perception that you're up there with the best of photographers is not immediately evident.

Would you like to provide a few examples maybe because there is always the possibility that you haven't uploaded your best stuff yet and I'm dying to see it as I'm sure everyone else is now that you've sold some sausages for $300!!!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 08:54 by Iriz »

hali

« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2009, 14:28 »
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Milinz, I think we talked enough about your cevapcici. Yes, I adore cevapcici, and they look tasty to me on your image because I know how they should look like. They look on your image exactly how they look like on real BBQ.
.............
But for God's sake, how long we will discuss this image? ....
...... Why don't you leave it this way, and leave Zymmetrical without this image? If you want, you can continue to upload to Zymmetrical, or you can stop it. The choice is yours. They rejected many of my images, so what? ....
 you want to prove that Zymmetrical is poor agency, or you maybe want to show to everybody that you are from here (Balkan peninsula) and that we are able to get through the wall with our heads and to lose days to prove something that isn't important to anybody else?

EDITED FOR BREVITY. 

I have to agree again with whitechild . I wrote Keith first time my image got rejected. I got too attached to my work, and was not happy with the reviewer(s) decision. But after an explanation from Keith, I realised that he was not out to insult me or anyone's photography, just trying to run his stock photo business like a business. He and his team , hopefully, know what they are looking for , to sell more images and be viable.
So, I left it at that. Sure, till this day, I still disagree with some rejections. But hey, if I am not happy with Zymm, I will stop uploading to them. Or I will start my own stock site and compete with Zymm,
and put all my rejected photos on the front page.  ;D
So, what will that achieve? 

Like Whitechild, I don't do that. I simply submit those images to other sites and they accepted them,
and some sold as well. The buyers are not all made of the same stripe. It would be wonderful if there is a site that will accept all your images. In fact, there are a few that will do just that.
If it means so much to you Milinz, to be proved right as stone, then submit your images to those sites, and forgot about Zymm.
If , as you so strongly believe, you are a unique photographer, then it's Zymmetrical 's loss,
and ours  too  ;)

I think this thread is going a little too long. And agree with Whitechild. Stop banging your head against a brick wall to prove you have been victimized.
Peace ! 8)

Milinz

« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2009, 15:46 »
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Ok!

Thanks whitechild, iriz and hali!

Iriz, I'd like to see some of your best images and make some constructive comments on them - just to show you how differently You and me look at same image! Also, there would be quite interesting to us two to make some photo challenge about some subject ? Better sellable image wins that extra prize and if you dare to do it - my challenge call is open!

No any problem left with zymmetrical... Only with 2-3 people who called my work 'crap', 'snapshots' and gave me insults about what kind of photographer I am...

So waves came from other people who think that they know something just because I made image which is not 'fancy' and which is earning me some nice money...

As for commentators of my 'bad work' I'd say just one thing... You'll come ty my review some day - and then... I'd really accept your images to be added to image base just because I know that you are doing your jobs with your best pushes - But, only if they are technically OK  ;)

So, I know reviewers make mistakes, even some of them have plans for how much images they want to 'see' in their working time for a day... And surely many reviews are subjective and that is what I don't like - not just on stock - it is mostly everywhere - on competitions (jury has its own taste), even in life (when someone does not like car you drive) and so on...

So TO ALL - even to you who gave me that nice insults without reason - I am backing off...

Happy shooting and reviews to all!

I will not do any further comments in this thread and topic with cevapcici, my capabilities as photographer is closed here.

Iriz, if you are accepting my challenge, we'll handle it via PM and we make new thread ;-)

FULL STOP

« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2009, 16:05 »
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I had a rejection once in Zymm that did not make sense to me.  I have three images, basically the same composition, but using three different banknotes (USA dollar, Euro, Brazilian Real).  They are here.  Only the USD one was accepted, the other two were rejected for "too similar". I sent them an email, they forwarded it to the reviewer because it was her job, and the reviewer said she would forward it to Kevin because it was out of her hands.  Too confusing and I am not sure I ever got a final reply about this. 

There was another series (this one), also only one accepted and the others were "too similar". I agree with the horizontal ones, but the vertical one at least should have been accepted. One of my best sellers (this one) was rejected for "limited stock usage".

However Zymm gets good earnings when I sell, so I intend to keep on uploading.  I only wished reviews made more sense.

Regards,
Adelaide
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 16:07 by madelaide »

Iriz

    This user is banned.
« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2009, 17:25 »
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Iriz, I'd like to see some of your best images and make some constructive comments on them - just to show you how differently You and me look at same image! Also, there would be quite interesting to us two to make some photo challenge about some subject ? Better sellable image wins that extra prize and if you dare to do it - my challenge call is open!

Milinz, with respect, how you view an image and how I view an image are so far apart that not even the Lord would be able to see your point of view without the aid of Hubble. Were you even within spitting distance I'd have no difficulty rising to your challenge but for that reason I'm not going to be drawn into another ego boosting exercise.

There are one or two people on here who already know what I produce and might offer you an opinion, but for now that's all you need to know.


hali

« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2009, 17:30 »
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I sent them an email, they forwarded it to the reviewer because it was her job, and the reviewer said she would forward it to Kevin because it was out of her hands.
(EDITED FOR BREVITY)

However Zymm gets good earnings when I sell, so I intend to keep on uploading.  I only wished reviews made more sense.Regards,Adelaide

you mean Keith, don't you ? Adelaide? ...

yes, like other sites, rejections sometimes do not make sense to us. but unless it's a big deal, which it seldom is, i just give them the benefit of the doubt, since they are the rule-makers.
i like most of what i see at zymm, so i think i'll continue to upload there.

« Reply #107 on: January 03, 2009, 18:23 »
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you mean Keith, don't you ? Adelaide? ...

Yes, right. I even checked the email now, she said "to Keith and Paul". 

As I said, I wouldn't mind some of the rejections, but I don't understand accepting the horizontal but rejecting the vertical for "too similar" when orientation is a search criteria, or taking an image with dollars but not the one with euros as they cater different public (the one with reals one may say that it has a very limited market, I could accept that, although they sell well for my standards).

Regards,
Adelaide

Microbius

« Reply #108 on: January 06, 2009, 10:12 »
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Milinz you need to relax, you're going to give yourself an ulcer obsessing over rejections like this.
You are also not going to improve as a photographer till you learn to take criticism.

« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2009, 04:06 »
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Oh, God. I can't stand these rejections of my bestsellers.

Hey, Zymm-people, I will reveal a big secret for you right now: in Calabria (Southern Italy), there will be started soon the construction of the longest bridge in the world, bridge over the strait of Messina. Now, you reject all my pictures from that region, so you must be not very intelligent.

SS and IS will gain more profit.

 :P

Hren s vami  :-*

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #110 on: April 22, 2009, 16:03 »
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I am not sure I understand - would it not be more relevant when the bridge is under construction or actually completed?      Surely if someone took a picture of the valley of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau_Viaduct before it was constructed, the image would have some extra worth as a historical archive photo (compared to any other picture of the French countryside), but I would certainly expect pictures of the completed project to be worth more. I am not quite sure how we could predict such projects in a practical way however, the bridge you are referencing has been 'in the works' since Roman times.   

My uncle is an architect who helped design the http://www.confederationbridge.com/ connecting the provinces of New Brunswick to PEI. I don't think that the specific location of the bridge, before it was made, was somehow more photo-worthy than any other part of coastline of those areas. Just a basic East Coast Canada beach mostly.

We rely on artist and client feedback for so much - if you are a plant specialist you are going to be able to come up with the scientific names of flowers for the keywords that we just wouldn't have the resources to come up with, if you are a graphic designer with a large inventory of little bird graphics you should remind us that they are selling like hotcakes because they are the Twitter icon and in-demand currently. There's no need to get frustrated - if you have a good point we will listen and in some cases adjust our ideas based on information provided.  Unfortunately accessing sales statistics directly from competing business is not only a grey ethics area, it's also not permitted by any terms of use I know of.  I know, as a techie engineer-type, I wouldn't appreciate my web system being assaulted by robots (or poor interns/outsourcers given a dirty job) only visiting to collect my data for the purpose of outselling my agency, I wouldn't wish it upon others either.

So to know in advance the trends and future sellers we rely on our own internal policies and experience - opinions, feelings, emotions. As mentioned in this thread before, it's never an exact science. When it does become an exact science, I think something must be severely broken because we are not selling car parts here but visual imagery. :)




« Reply #111 on: July 20, 2009, 00:02 »
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I recently joined Zymmetrical. It's on iSyndica, so I thought why not. Sent 3 images to them. Took weeks for it to be reviewed. I actually logged on today to ask them when they will be reviewed. I saw all 3 rejected for the same reason, "The overall technical quality of this image limits its stock value." I guess if they were rejected for different reasons, I could believe more that the reviewer spent time analysing them. Yes I don't have the best camera in the world, but 2 of the 3 I sent are on SS and I find SS pretty tough. That's pretty frustrating. I'll keep sending to them, I just hope Zymmetrical is not one of the illogical agencies out there.

« Reply #112 on: July 20, 2009, 01:33 »
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Perhaps Keith or Paul can explain the logic for refusing images just because there are a bunch in a given category because I don't understand it...

If an image meets all of your technical standards and guidelines, why reject it at all?

Isn't the goal to get as many choices in front of buyers as possible?  Isn't it likely that a category with no new (or very few) submissions will get stagnant in time?  Aren't designers hungry for new and different images all the time?  Even if that difference is only slight?
>....
<....
What was very interesting was the experiment was in two parts.  The first part students were just asked to pick their favorite.  71% of the picks were in the first 60 images shown (they got tired or bored of looking).  In the second part, students were required to review all of the images before making their selection and 79% of them changed their selection to images later in the batch (even a few who chose the very last image).

On alamy they have a lot of real search data only from selected buyers, that the contributors can look at and download, I collated 6 months worth of all buyer data, over on Alamy you have up to 120 thumbnails a page, and I found that the averages were, buyers viewed about 2 pages from a search, 210 thumbnail were viewed, they have large 170px thumbnails and buyers zoomed only 2 images in 100 which is 1%, by using a diversity function they split images from the same contributor in the search, giving a more even selection and a more varied image search, the buyer can see sibling images from a contributor on a drill down, this gives my images more of a chance of getting a view, I have a small port on Alamy and they have over 16 million images on their macrostock website, and I still get daily views on the first two - three pages of a search.

To be fair the students were not buyers which is not the best data, I have seen data where a buyer has viewed thousands of thumbnails and zoomed tens of images, if there are to many similar images being returned from a search term, then you can understand it would just be an overhead to the website and the buyer, with a smaller set of selected and returned images it is easy to see most of what is on offer, the only problem I can see with this is keeping the collection fresh, and rotation to give ones at the back a chance, if a buyer returns after a month to do the same search they should get a different set of images, these are normally the latest uploads mixed in with best sellers.

With most of the rejections being not quality but to many in this category, the experienced contributors will stop uploading images in these categories, leaving the fresh images needed to update a category later to come from new artists to keep the search fresh.

If you already know which categories are full then why not let contributors know, this will not waste time for you or the contributors, then later when things pick up and you need new assets open the category again and let contributors know, this will keep down rejection rates and contributors own stats will look better, as you know by other posts reward / effort is the key to keeping contributors happy, uploading assets that an agency knows they are going to reject as the category is full is effort than can be avoided, also a reduced cost to the agency, I am sure letting contributors know which categories in the collection are strong or weak is positive communication and would be well received.
  
David  :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 01:42 by Adeptris »

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #113 on: July 20, 2009, 03:16 »
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Komar, sorry you are frustrated, but speculation (that because 3 images get the same review that we are not actually reviewing them, that a subscription agencies review standard is very relevant to a direct-buy, varied price marketplace) does not assist much - we have, again and again, over years, consistently offered to discuss and rejections till all parties can come to terms with them.   

As you can see my response above your message, we make a lot of effort to give 'logical' responses, and in cases like the one above, the Artist does not even respond to carry on the conversation.. kind of ironic, I guess my message got rejected for technical reasons by Nata :) . So please, post some low-res thumbs of the rejects and we can all learn. I realize it is hard to know what content is wanted without the nice documentation that some other agencies have, so until the time that can expand on that the best solution seems to be through personal communication.


I recently joined Zymmetrical. It's on iSyndica, so I thought why not. Sent 3 images to them. Took weeks for it to be reviewed. I actually logged on today to ask them when they will be reviewed. I saw all 3 rejected for the same reason, "The overall technical quality of this image limits its stock value." I guess if they were rejected for different reasons, I could believe more that the reviewer spent time analysing them. Yes I don't have the best camera in the world, but 2 of the 3 I sent are on SS and I find SS pretty tough. That's pretty frustrating. I'll keep sending to them, I just hope Zymmetrical is not one of the illogical agencies out there.

« Reply #114 on: July 20, 2009, 08:28 »
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Thanks for the response. You make valid points. Although, standards are pretty high these days, whether subscription agencies or not. It just seems that a contributor has to learn what an agency wants, which is often difficult as standard rejection answers are often too vague. However, I'm all for learning. These are the photos.






zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #115 on: July 20, 2009, 10:46 »
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Thanks for the response. You make valid points. Although, standards are pretty high these days, whether subscription agencies or not. It just seems that a contributor has to learn what an agency wants, which is often difficult as standard rejection answers are often too vague. However, I'm all for learning.


It's a matter of scaling, not that we would not like to go into complete detail for every reject. You're most likely a reasonable guy, and would read and action specific rejection reasons. There are other's who simply do not read them, or worse, get upset, pack their bags and ask to close their account because they have their own idea of how an agency should be run. We owe it to members who play fair, to not expose too many business resources to the big open void of the internet.

I do realize that many technical reject reasons intersect with a particular agencies designated threshold, which is always going to be a grey area. We never claimed to be interested in what a competitor rejects or accepts, we are focused on our own business unit and no one else. We can, as I offered, respond to individual reject cases, preferably like this in public so that others can see and understand too - straight from the reviewer:




Lighting: it's a bit harsh in areas, and there is chromatic aberration present. Comp: it's off center, and the overall comp could have been improved with some post-p work.        


Comp: it's very busy (cluttered b/g), the top of the subject is cut off in-camera, the image is slightly tilted to the left. Lighting: the subject's face is poorly lit, lacking detail.



Exposure: the sky is overexposed, resulting in some of the foliage in that area being whited-out and/or having a Day-Glo appearance; some lower areas of the image are slightly underexposed. Comp: could have been improved from shooting more toward the right, making the lower area and the large tree on the right (roots and texture) more the subject, shooting to maximize that and the mix of textures in the photo rather than trying to get the tower dead center, and cutting out the less interesting trees to the left. Also, if the image could have been shot more from above and to the right, cutting out most of the sky and exposed more for the lower half of the photo, another image could then have been shot with the tower as the subject, exposing properly for that area. But those are could-have-beens, just what I see in potential. As it is, the exposure is the biggest problem in this image.    

**Edit - sorry I mixed up the order pasting the reasons, fixed now
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 12:34 by zymmetrical »

« Reply #116 on: July 20, 2009, 11:03 »
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off topic sorry but I think I just found the whole cevapcici thing (and why milinz left), now I am enlightened :):):)

« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2009, 07:46 »
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"We can, as I offered, respond to individual reject cases, preferably like this in public so that others can see and understand too - straight from the reviewer"

Well that's great I'm often left with entirely different signals. I get a lot of rejections which indicates I'm doing something wrong, however the images I get on line, to be frank, sell like hot cakes which indicates I'm doing something right. If I could sort out the first part I'm laughin.

It's got to be hard balancing act being a reviewer. Hopefully, they get it right more than wrong. However, every photographer has his stories about how they get it wrong. Around 2 weeks ago I sent an image twice by mistake to an agency, the first file was rejected for composition, the second was accepted. It sold a day later.

"we are focused on our own business unit and no one else." Well we are focused on all of you and everyone else. So you will always be compared by us and it's not such a bad idea to compare yourself with others in order to improve yourself. If I look to the right, I see you in New Sites/Low Earners and I know you're not a new site. Although I would love you to be right up there with the model you have.

However, it is remarkable that you have spent the time giving me details of what you think could be improved with my images (Not that I agree with all the points, but a lot of them are valid). I still believe that more adequate answers could be provided by you and other agencies. "The overall technical quality of this image limits its stock value." This just pisses me off as it doesn't tell me anything. It doesn't have to be personally typed by the reviewer, just more details in the standardised replies. I could be wrong but I think I am less likely to run away if I'm told why I was rejected, although others might react differently.

I appreciate the time you spent and your sincerity. See you on my next round of rejections ;D
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 15:25 by Komar »

« Reply #118 on: November 20, 2009, 08:17 »
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351151 is refused with "We cannot accept images of people without model releases"
Of course, because crappy flash-interface is full of bugs, because the release was in fact attached.

Resubmit, now # 351356 is refused with "This image is a duplicate of an image you have already submitted. Please do not resubmit it again"

Is this is a joke?

Either give me a valid rejection reason or accept my image, zymmetrical. And don't ask me for respect towards your agency and stuff.  >:(

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #119 on: November 20, 2009, 08:42 »
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Please refer to the support channels on our website for more effective help.

1. 351151 - There is no model release associated with it. Many other people from all over upload daily, and successfully attach model releases. If you have a technical issue to report then why not report through proper support channels, with sufficient information?

2. 351356 - The image is a duplicate. Here is the direct output from the database:
ID# 351356   
Submitted: 2009-10-25 10:14:04.033   
Filename:   Sveta-2897.jpg   

ID #351151   
Submitted: 2009-10-23 05:10:58.690
Filename: Sveta-2897.jpg   



« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2009, 08:54 »
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Keith,

i assume there might be a slight problem on your side...

I had a rejection with the same reason (""This image is a duplicate of an image you have already submitted. Please do not resubmit it again"), for file ID # 356113.

I double (and triple-)checked, both in my own accounting and on your website this file cannot be found in neither the accepted nor the rejected files.

As to using the support channels on the website: I sent a question there a few weeks ago (can't say when exactly, and the ticket can't be found on the website itself...) and never received any feedback...

Sometimes it looks as though asking here gets far quicker responses...

Regards,
Dirk

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2009, 09:29 »
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Nata_rass:
In the email you sent to us at the same time as posting here, you explained the issue better, and you are right - it is not the intended outcome. We recently installed new duplicate image checking steps, based on "has this member uploaded a file with this exact name before", and other elements - your re-submission, although requested, tripped the warning for the reviewers that it was a duplicate.

It is suggested that any images resubmited should have a versioned filename - for example, "myimage.jpg" would become "myimage-isolationfixed.jpg" - this would normally be part of an organized workflow, helping both you and us keep track of fixes to an image. In your case, it does not make sense to "version" the filename based on a model release being missing (missing metadata) - so, we will fix this with full priority, so reviewers can have the info available to make the correct decision.

Dirk:
The support channels are the quickest method, and less prone to confusion. We have recently removed the front-end support ticket system in favor of a simple contact form, to speed thing's up. There should be no outstanding tickets, but I will have a look and contact you with the findings.


Thanks to all for patience - people uploading dupes is a problem and we make adjustments to deal with the it and keep things fair for everyone.




« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2009, 10:08 »
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Every rejection has an explanation.
I can only second that.

« Reply #123 on: January 08, 2010, 01:38 »
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And just when my stuff was starting to be accepted on Zymm, they shut shop lol. Thanks Keith for all the time you spent here, I wish some other agencies could take a leaf out of your book.


 

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