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Author Topic: Zymmetrical is now closed  (Read 26916 times)

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zymmetricaldotcom

« on: December 30, 2009, 11:59 »
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It is with deep regret we must announce Zymmetrical is closed. The stock industry and the economy in general are a hard situation these days, and we have made the difficult decision to close the operation, preserving our health and future potential.

We met a lot of friendly image producers & agents who are doing great things and working hard in these turbulent times. Sales were up, business systems were finally getting stable and fast, but you need to know when to fold. When your job is not making you happy any more then it's one of those times - and what makes us happy is creatives getting properly paid for the output they produce, in a sustainable way.

All content on Zymmetrical will be securely deleted from the system, with the same attention to detail and respect for Artists that we exhibited throughout the short life of Zymmetrical. Flyerstarter Services Ltd. will carry on growing at our original site, Flyerstarter.com. Vector designers are strongly encouraged to have a look, if you are already had a Zymmetrical account you can login with those credentials. Business is booming and we have some great new features coming online.

Keith Tuomi will continue leading Flyerstarter.
Paul Melcher can continue to be found saying it like it is on his blog.

I would personally like to express eternal thanks to everyone who participated, your patience and understanding is truly appreciated.

A special note here to thank Tyler (Leaf) for creating and maintaining the MSG Community.

Sincerely,
Keith Tuomi
Director, Flyerstarter Services Ltd.


« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2009, 12:09 »
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Very sorry to hear that!

« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2009, 12:18 »
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Good luck Keith, stay in touch, wherever you might be.

(slightly disgruntled since I uploaded a bunch of new full-size shots 2 days ago and lost an hour on it - but that's life)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 12:46 by FD-amateur »

« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2009, 12:19 »
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Yes sorry to hear that Keith, I hope you continue to contribute here.

« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 12:27 »
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Altough I quit last year I really thought Zym had fair chance to survive this crisis.
Good luck in what ever you gonna do.   

« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2009, 12:40 »
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I didn't upload to Zymmetrical but sorry to hear that  :'(
good luck!

« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 12:48 »
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That news really made me sad. Good luck in the future Keith. You deserve it.

« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 13:19 »
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Wow, saw my "final payout" and came here to see any news.

Sorry to see Zymm go, and nicely suprised with the decency in paying us. Thanks and all the best.

« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 13:22 »
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Very sorry to see Zymmetrical go!  I admire Keith and I'm sorry that he has had to make a choice like this.  Hopefully Flyerstarter will explode (in a good way) now that he doesn't have to split his time between the two agencies.  

I received my final payout this morning without requesting it, so it looks like they are closing shop the right way.  

Isn't it troubling that micro has become a 4-site show and there is very little room for a new player to elbow into the game?


« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 13:53 »
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Isn't it troubling that micro has become a 4-site show and there is very little room for a new player to elbow into the game?

Photos are sold too cheap. I got an IM yesterday from a friend in Manila telling me he saw a photo-travel book on the shelves about the Philippines (he forgot the name) with at least 10 landmark/landscape shots of me in it. The credit was for "ShutterStock".
He thought I was rich by now and we could have a nice diner the next time I was there. I didn't have the guts to tell him I probably made 3.3-3.6$ on those shots. Maybe enough for 2 coffees in a cheap joint.

With about 200 usable CR2s on my disk, I just closed photoshop and I'm going to watch some movies instead. The Zymm and the Featurepics concept didn't make it. The future belongs to the 0.20$ or 15p sites. That's great, but not with me.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 13:57 by FD-amateur »

« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 14:02 »
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Photos are sold too cheap. The future belongs to the 0.20$ or 15p sites. That's great, but not with me.


God you are so right buddy!
As I see my pictures on the covers of books I have that feeling that many would call "rip-off" but we accepted being part of this system. In the end they market us, sell our works and give us a good exposure: this has a cost anyway.
At least the editor should have a good coscience to credit the ARTIST and not the agency... sheees!

« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 14:16 »
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At least the editor should have a good coscience to credit the ARTIST and not the agency... sheees!

iStock for instance does it. And I can't be 100% sure since I didn't see the book myself. But prices are getting too low in general, considering the work it takes to make a shot presentable, and all "new" sites we see emerging now are playing on the price-competition field. The good sites like Zymm go down, and some other ones will follow. Honestly, I had more fun at DeviantArt 5 years ago, even if it was free. I kept a few good friends from that period.

« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 14:27 »
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I see what you mean and I agree.
That act is that what makes agencies go on are the buyers and they all want the best at the lowest price, who can blame them?
I'm not wishing that the sales revenues went ridiculously high but it would be much better if they raised the $0.20-0.30 limit to $1.00 per download.

« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 16:19 »
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At least the editor should have a good coscience to credit the ARTIST and not the agency... sheees!

iStock for instance does it. And I can't be 100% sure since I didn't see the book myself. But prices are getting too low in general, considering the work it takes to make a shot presentable, and all "new" sites we see emerging now are playing on the price-competition field. The good sites like Zymm go down, and some other ones will follow. Honestly, I had more fun at DeviantArt 5 years ago, even if it was free. I kept a few good friends from that period.

sorry to see Zymm lost their fight , which like PhotoShelter, was all in good faith ...FOR THE CONTRIBUTORS.
I agree with FD in that the sites that truly want to give us what we deserve will all die a horrible and quick demise, with only the "peanut vendors" thriving.
But all in all, we the photographers , are responsible for that. We shoot ourselves in the foot
when we opt in for the sites that offers to give us less and less for our hard work.

If everyone says enough is enough, sites like Zymm would not be saying goodbye so soon.
But, who among us have the gall to lead the battle of saying enough is enough, hmm??? ???

« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 17:18 »
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I am both sorry and surprised to see Zymmetrical go. They were one of the "new" sites I had the most hope in. I wish Keith much success in his future business.

« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 18:24 »
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Good luck to Keith and all the Zymmetrical team.  I enjoyed being paid 70% while it lasted, especially for those $100 EL sales.  It is a shame we can't work together to keep the site going but I can understand why you have reached your decision.  It is going to be very tough for any sites to get a decent slice of the market now.  I still hope one site that pays us a decent commission and doesn't have to keep giving more profits to its investors will make it one day.

« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 19:59 »
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Many thanks for the final payout guys. All the best for the future

« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 21:34 »
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Very sorry to hear the news. I have really believed in Zymmetrical since its start. Good luck Keith and thank you for all your help!

« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 22:51 »
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But, who among us have the gall to lead the battle of saying enough is enough, hmm??? ???

I think maybe that's happening, just not all at once.  During the year I've been doing (a little) microstock and watching this forum, I've noticed increasing discouragement. Hardly anyone draws the line, says "I'm out" and closes their microstock accounts; but I suspect that many contributors are just submitting fewer and fewer photos as time goes by.  Unless your subject matter can generate big numbers of sales, the return just isn't there.  So we slowly turn our interest to other things.





« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2009, 03:20 »
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Very sorry to hear this Keith. Thanks for all your help! Stay in touch!

« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2009, 04:39 »
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But, who among us have the gall to lead the battle of saying enough is enough, hmm??? ???

I think maybe that's happening, just not all at once.  During the year I've been doing (a little) microstock and watching this forum, I've noticed increasing discouragement. Hardly anyone draws the line, says "I'm out" and closes their microstock accounts; but I suspect that many contributors are just submitting fewer and fewer photos as time goes by.  Unless your subject matter can generate big numbers of sales, the return just isn't there.  So we slowly turn our interest to other things.





Hasn't the number of new images being submitted to the sites increased this year?  I think we see a lot of people complaining here but it looks like there are much more that are uploading more than they ever have.  It is easy to get a false impression, I am sure that people are more likely to post about how bad their sales are than brag about how well they are doing.  I hope it tails off in 2010, less competition would be good.

« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2009, 07:46 »
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What is with small amounts like mine 18,90 $, should I get it on my Payoneer account or what?

« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2009, 09:45 »
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I had closed my account months ago, but sorry to hear that.
Good luck!

« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2009, 10:18 »
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Keith, Very sorry to see Zymmetrical closing. Good luck for your future and thank you for the last payout.

« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2009, 13:36 »
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What a shame, sorry to hear that Keith. I wish you all the best in your upcoming ventures!
take care
Laurent

« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2009, 14:24 »
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This is inevitable for agencies that concentrate on designing site and on closing contributor accounts rather than on attracting buyers. No regret . :-*

« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2009, 17:06 »
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What is with small amounts like mine 18,90 $, should I get it on my Payoneer account or what?
I got US$7.70 in my Paypal account.

« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2009, 22:38 »
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Best of luck to everyone !


-Mark
http://markwpayne.wordpress.com
 

« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2010, 18:10 »
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sorry to hear that you are closing shop.  Thanks for being part of the forum and best of luck with flyerstarter

« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2010, 04:46 »
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@ Keith, Good luck for the future to all that were at Zym, and with any other ventures.

@ FD, put your generic images on microstock, treat your travel shots as 'niche', self promote and put them with macro agencies like Alamy, if they are not there at $0.25 the publishers will have to find them and pay the rate for the right image.

The main problem with microstock is the artists not understanding the market and the value of each asset, and uploading everything everywhere, the question each artist needs to ask is "what is the availability of images with this content and where best to place it", handshakes and headsets to microstock, the local interest images that a travel magazine or local company  would use, send them to a specialist or macrostock agency and self promote.

The microstock market was and is still dominated by the established big agencies, any new websites cannot compete with them on price and attract enough buyers to make it pay, contributing artists should avoid these new sites unless they have a specialist market or an existing customer base, in the future look only to the big sites for global generic micro content images, using the better paying microstock, niche and specialist sites for other travel and more artistic content that is not on the big sites.

« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2010, 07:33 »
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Thanks Keith on a quick response, I sent you my PP data...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 08:13 by borg »

« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2010, 19:41 »
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This is inevitable for agencies that concentrate on designing site and on closing contributor accounts rather than on attracting buyers. No regret . :-*

i think you have a point there.
the recurring problem with the site and the cumbersome keywording format . i know some ppl here complain about IS being cumbersome to upload. well, actually, i find IS very simple and easy, compared to Zymm.
i think it's the inconsistencies and erratic nature of the site that just worked against Keith and his sincere vision to give us a site that pays something the contributors so deserve, instead of peanuts.

all in all, the writings on the wall. settle for less or settle with nothing at all. :(

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2010, 13:35 »
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Thanks everybody, the kind words mean a lot and help me save my sanity a bit.  It was not easy but business is just business, if you can't gain the momentum to break out then it's better for everyone to call it a day and move on to the next plan.

Believe me it was the hardest thing i've ever done to make the decision to turf all the work that was expended. I just pray this cliche about "every great businessman messed up lots before he made it big" holds true. :)    

« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2010, 14:59 »
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On the other hand, I saw the writing on this wall about a year ago and emailed to close my account. I got an email back that from October 08 to November 08 Zymm had:

- increased pageviews x35% and traffic by x320% in last month alone

Just a little extra info for anyone who is monitoring a certain agency that claims some pretty big increases in the last month and year.  I'm not saying .... I'm just saying....

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2010, 19:12 »
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Never mind.

 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 20:10 by zymmetrical »

« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2010, 19:14 »
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'm not saying .... I'm just saying....

Sometimes you shouldn't say. I consider Keith as a great guy and I will miss him here a lot. As far as possible in cyber life, I even consider him as a friend. I saw the handwriting too and I'm known for my bad mouth but not as a backstabber.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2010, 19:21 »
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Thanks Hugo I consider you a friend as well, even though we annoyed . out of you as a programmer yourself with all the bugs, you recognized the underlying intention and energy behind the project. Maybe next time I will get it right. 

« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2010, 19:36 »
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Thanks Hugo I consider you a friend as well, even though we annoyed . out of you as a programmer yourself with all the bugs, you recognized the underlying intention and energy behind the project. Maybe next time I will get it right. 
You have a PM. It's only over when the fat lady sings  ;)

« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2010, 21:40 »
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Sorry - my intent isn't to bash Zym - I had no issue with their site or program or anything. My message was about looking forward to other agencies and seeing what they saying and doing to get ahead overall.  No disrespect to Zym but if 300% traffic increases don't help a site get sales enough to stay afloat we have to be cautious with ANY new/flailing site.

Again, no disrespect to Zym - sorry about that - it's about sites that will fail going forward and how we may be able to spot it before we spend hours uploading.

« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2010, 21:59 »
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Again, no disrespect to Zym - sorry about that - it's about sites that will fail going forward and how we may be able to spot it before we spend hours uploading.
Fair enough. They are easy to spot. It's just useless to make enemies. You can make an anonymous poll though.  :P

« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2010, 03:59 »
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There are several sites that I think will probably fold but I have no regrets using them.  Lucky Oliver and Zymmetrical have gone but it didn't take long for me to upload my portfolio and they both made me some money.  I would feel much worse not using sites like these, as none of them will ever make it without our support and we will be stuck complaining about the big 6 cutting commissions and forcing us in to cheap subs.  Several months last year, Zymmetrical were in my top 6 sites, those EL commissions were great, so I am sad to see them go but there are no bad feelings.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2010, 08:50 »
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Sorry - my intent isn't to bash Zym - I had no issue with their site or program or anything. My message was about looking forward to other agencies and seeing what they saying and doing to get ahead overall.  No disrespect to Zym but if 300% traffic increases don't help a site get sales enough to stay afloat we have to be cautious with ANY new/flailing site.

Again, no disrespect to Zym - sorry about that - it's about sites that will fail going forward and how we may be able to spot it before we spend hours uploading.


No worries Matt - i'm sure whatever stats were quoted back then were true, but in terms of how it really matters it is indeed debatable.  In fact, in our final 3 months of operation traffic nearly tripled across our country domains - in reality however for an image agency, traffic can have little bearing on sales. Especially if you add "free" stuff or get indexed heavily in Google for random keyword searches, and you'll get a lot of non-converting traffic.  

It's more than just the economy, there's always different choices that could have been made.. but have a look at this (click the green "play" button on the map) to an almost perfect chronological representation of the stress level experienced in work vs. return with Zymm:  http://www.slate.com/id/2216238/ - whether Artists liked our submissions page or debated our editorial policies, has very very little to do with the reality of doing business in these times, especially when trying to start an "upmarket" brand.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 08:52 by zymmetrical »

« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2010, 10:14 »
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is it true that you will get paid ?
i had one sale of 6 dollars , i think, can't recall, too long ago.  i was encouraged to increase my uploads then, and in fact had over 50 images waiting to be uploaded to zymm at that time, but it was plagued with design problem, being off line, etc..
that i gave up going back to see when they were actually online.

after reading this thread that they pay you even if you did not reach payout, i checked my mail but only found a closeup payout by corbis for 30 cents which i gather was from SV or something, but it is not definitely from zymm, as i don't remember corbis buying zymm.


zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2010, 11:30 »
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Yes that is true. Payout limits were an administrative overhead construct, if there's nothing to administrate then it's your money. If you believe you were missed on the payout, please send an email to info (at ) zymmetrical.com from your registered account email.

« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2010, 12:04 »
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Yes that is true. Payout limits were an administrative overhead construct, if there's nothing to administrate then it's your money. If you believe you were missed on the payout, please send an email to info (at ) zymmetrical.com from your registered account email.

thx Keith,
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 14:59 by PERSEUS »

« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2010, 21:03 »
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I'm quite late to this thread, my computer has been dying for the last month or so and I've finally migrated to the laptop while the other is out for repair.

I'd like to tell you all that working with Keith at Zym was one of the best experiences I've ever had. He's one of THE nicest people I've known, has a killer sense of humor, and a drive to succeed that is matched by his drive to be fair in business. He also has a great deal of patience, and often put up with me when he should have told me to go chase myself. :D Who else gets to holler at their boss and have him be nice in return? Not many of us. In the couple of years we worked together not once did I ever hear Keith rant about anything unless it was well-deserved, and even then he still kept his patience for most of it.

I hope I get the chance to work with him again in the future, in some way. We're keeping in touch, but I still miss our IM chats even when they were mostly about work.

You won't find a nicer guy than Keith, not only to work with and for, but just to pal around with. :)

Kate

(PS: Hugo, I'm really going to miss seeing your images at full size -- that was one of my favorite things about working at Zym I love your stuff!)

« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2010, 04:21 »
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You won't find a nicer guy than Keith, not only to work with and for, but just to pal around with. :)
He was one of the few that could appreciate my sometimes weird sense of humor. Well maybe we'll meet again, somewhere, somehow in another universe. Or not. Hoping he's fine back in Canada and say hi to him.

(PS: Hugo, I'm really going to miss seeing your images at full size -- that was one of my favorite things about working at Zym I love your stuff!)
Not really, I'm just an amateur. There are great artists around that skipped Zym for the flaky (upload) framework. I only managed to get 1/3 of my port up. I have been mad enough about that a few times (in private of course). What's done is done. The concept had a chance, still has. Perhaps when he is bored selling fliers  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:27 by FD-amateur »


 

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