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Author Topic: Earnings discrepancies  (Read 12255 times)

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« on: February 24, 2010, 23:02 »
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To all 123rf Contributors,

With regards to all issues related to our earnings reporting and payment that you are experiencing, we'd like to notify you that we are currently upgrading our earnings reporting to ensure more accurate and faster reporting for all contributors.

We are also aware and understand that the reportings for the past couple of weeks have been problematic, our team is working around the clock to fix the problem and are trying our very best to ensure better, more stable and timely earnings reports for everyone. Your continued patience is very much appreciated. We estimate that this problem will be fixed by the mid of next week - March 3, 2010.

Please rest assure that all downloads are continued to be logged and we will act in a fair and responsible manner to all our Contributors.
We commit to pay all missed payments as soon as our server can produce accurate earnings reports for everyone.



« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 03:12 »
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thanks for the update.  I hope things get cleared up quickly.

« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 09:16 »
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Thanks, Looking forward to faster stats.

una

« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 09:58 »
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Thank you!

« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 10:39 »
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Thank You for responding...jp

« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 10:58 »
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I'm glad you are dealing with it, there are some questions I would be grateful if you would answer, though:

1) How far back does this problem go? Are we just talking about things not being correctly reported for a week or two, or are we talking about months or years? As you know, for a long time you have mysteriously added or deducted earnings a long time after the end of a month. I've certainly seen this happening for more than a year, maybe more than two years.

2) Are earnings being added progressively as you work through things (I've been seeing a handful of sales a day recently, instead of a handful of days without a sale), or will there be a lump sum credited once the books have been straightened out?

« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 11:23 »
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So this is why I haven't rec'd my pymt yet? Will be glad to follow the updates...thank you!

WarrenPrice

« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 16:15 »
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One thing I could never figure out about software is how it breaks.  If it doesn't work properly now, wouldn't that mean it never worked properly?  Can it really just "wear out?"   

Or, did someone make a change that broke it?

« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 16:26 »
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What I can't figure out is how my top line can announce that I've earned $5 today, while the bottom line increases by $3 ... which is what has happened with my latest figures.

So the stats are still going wrong even now.

I suspect that its stats have been awry for a long time. Who knows, it could be a big selling agency. How can we find out whether or not our images are being sold when, but its own admission, the record it is providing us with is all wrong?

« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 16:29 »
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Software doesn't break from wear, Warren, but it can break when conditions arise that it wasn't set up to handle.  Sometimes new modules are added and they interact with older modules in ways that weren't tested and have subtle bugs.  Or there are timing-related problems, which aren't that uncommon in big transactional systems.  These can show up infrequently, which makes them hard to debug, but can occur more often as the system gets busier.  More traffic often reveals bugs that were there from the beginning but just didn't reveal themselves.

« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 16:32 »
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I cannot say I am grateful for this late update.

123rf should have informed us of this problem as soon as it knows of its existence. Instead, it only tells us now after there are multiple threads complaining about the problems.

As contributors, perhaps we should be more aware of our rights. As agencies, they are as obligated to us as we are obligated to them.

« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 16:37 »
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As contributors, perhaps we should be more aware of our rights. As agencies, they are as obligated to us as we are obligated to them.

I'd say their obligations to us are far greater than any obligation we have to them. They take our work that we supply "from time to time" as one agreement puts it, on approval and undertake to pay us a certain commission on all sales of that work. Unless we agree to special terms, such as some kind of exclusivity, I don't see that we have any obligations to them at all.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 18:16 »
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Software doesn't break from wear, Warren, but it can break when conditions arise that it wasn't set up to handle.  Sometimes new modules are added and they interact with older modules in ways that weren't tested and have subtle bugs.  Or there are timing-related problems, which aren't that uncommon in big transactional systems.  These can show up infrequently, which makes them hard to debug, but can occur more often as the system gets busier.  More traffic often reveals bugs that were there from the beginning but just didn't reveal themselves.

It was a dig at the developers, disorderly.  The software part of my background was in testing, quality assurance, and configuration management.  I learned that testing is often hired to prove that the system works.

Good testing tries to prove that it doesn't.     ;D

BTW... my sales are really picking up in the last few days.  I doubt that it has anything to do with software but makes me feel much better about 123rf in general.   :P

« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 18:18 »
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The big question is how much of a discrepancy are we talking?  $3? $30? $300? I mean...that's all that will matter I think.  And will we all go up?  Or will some LOSE money?

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 18:24 »
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Hopefully it will go up because I only got $12.00 on there and that's where I've been stuck at.

« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 18:49 »
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For me, my earning discrepency is over $70.

Besides, 123rf should have the decency to reply to those of us who are affected and have inquired about it, with an apology!

I have not received any reply from 123 management. I'll wait and see if I receive any money I am entitled to.

« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 19:37 »
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How can you know your discrepancy?  What information are you comparing? ???

« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 19:55 »
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Amounting earned + negative balance = discrepency

RacePhoto

« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2010, 22:27 »
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How can you know your discrepancy?  What information are you comparing? ???

In my case my Dec. total was higher than my Jan. total and for Feb. it dropped again. No refunds, just the total going down.

They did write back today and said it was being looked into.

I think they finally figured out that something was wrong after a hundred people wrote and asked what happened?  ;D

Edit: Just lost another $2 today. I hope they fix this?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 15:12 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2010, 08:00 »
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My earning balance is still in the negative. All my earnings from September 2009 were wiped out.

No one has bothered to reply to my inquiries.

123rf, do the honorable thing!!

« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2010, 05:46 »
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So what this meant was the site was being relaunched on the 3rd with - presumably - better recording of sales for future. Therefore the problem is solved.

Crediting people with any missed sales will be dealt with whenever they manage to sort out the old stats and that has nothing to do with anything happening yesterday. Am I reading it correctly?

RacePhoto

« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2010, 01:35 »
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May I be the first to say, go check your totals! All my missing sales appeared back, just as promised. It's magic!  ;D

Nice to see a site that keeps their word.

« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2010, 12:50 »
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Still no payment though...

« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2010, 02:23 »
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Perhaps they spent everything on the iPads they're giving away...

« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2010, 08:48 »
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Now all my earnings data has vanished. I thought they were meant to have sorted the site out.

« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2010, 09:07 »
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At least they have paid me today, glad they have sorted it out.

« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2010, 01:27 »
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I enter my earning everyday in the xls to keep trace my earning, this morning as usual i updated my earning from 123rf that are 4 downloads and i earned $3.93, but now i saw the download is now become 3 and my earning is 3.563, i also notice on the 4 March my earning record is $5.28 but now it become $3.18, my grand total for march is also not the same as this morning, this has happened so many time I m very disappointed with 123rf, no any other stock photo agency have this problem.

« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2010, 08:38 »
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Funny this should be brought up again. I emailed a notice to them that on March 23rd I had 2 d/l's (1 sub and 1 web per the download page) and was  paid for the sub only. I haven't heard back from them yet.  The earnings page reported the 1 dl and the download page showed 2. I really like their new site but wish they would now take care of the reporting. I don't mind not being paid for 1 image if that's where the error is....I just want to know which one is correct....jp

« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2010, 00:26 »
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this is ridiculous now my 4 March earning become $2.13 from $5.28 then change to $3.18 on 30 March and today it become $2.13 my earning is decrease everyday instead of gaining, I email to [email protected] regarding this, but no response from them, do they care about us contributor? Now they removed their forum, we have no way to reach them, can we continue to trust them? I know this is not a big amount but I really not feeling good to see my earning decrease everyday this are my hard earn money. What we contributor wants is just to get the actual earning statistic, so simple but they can't deliver.


I enter my earning everyday in the xls to keep trace my earning, this morning as usual i updated my earning from 123rf that are 4 downloads and i earned $3.93, but now i saw the download is now become 3 and my earning is 3.563, i also notice on the 4 March my earning record is $5.28 but now it become $3.18, my grand total for march is also not the same as this morning, this has happened so many time I m very disappointed with 123rf, no any other stock photo agency have this problem.

xst

« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2010, 03:12 »
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mine numbers also started jumping backward.
I've send them e-mail.
Unless they provide transparency and log of daily sales,
it may be good idea to gather group of people, hire lawyer and demand independent audit.

I've recently read interesting article about situation 10 years ago, that claimed - "every audit of stock agencies accounting discovered mistakes, under reporting and underpayment to contributors."

I don't know if that would be the case today for 123rf?
anyway whoever is thinking that audit may be idea to consider,
feel free to drop me private message.
I'll start compiling the list.

« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2010, 03:03 »
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Hello everyone,

I know that it is very distressing to find your earnings fluctuating. We are really trying to iron this out here at 123RF. As you know we've just shifted to a new design and with that comes new challenges. customer and photographer's satisfaction does take priority around here and we are working hard so that our clients are satisfied with the new site changes and features that we now offer.

Now coming back to the issue of earnings fluctuations. Over the years, the number of downloads that have been logged are piling up (quite literally) and now we find that generating your earnings page is taking up a lot of CPU time and this often causes our servers to be overloaded.

What are we doing to fix this? Basically, 3 things:
1. Dedicated and faster servers to handle the load.
2. Restructure both the downloads and earnings database into more resilient schema.
3. Recode the scripts that display all earnings and downloads so that they perform faster.

For the month or so ahead, you will find that your earnings will indeed fluctuate. The reason for the fluctuations are:
1. Certain canceled transactions, which are due to fraudulent activities. Sometimes it may takes several months before the bank informs us of a fraudulent transaction and we have no choice but to cancel it from our records.
2. Clients' request for cancellation. We do request our clients to provide us with a written letter stating images downloaded are not to be used and have been deleted from their systems.
3. Duplicated download logging, at times the server registers 2 or more downloads from the same client, on the same resolution and of the same image. We have upgraded our scripts to take these duplicated entries into account.
4. At times, the server will time out due to heavy load and can only process certain download data and left out the other portions, this could cause faulty reporting of downloads as well.

Please rest assure that some reconciliation on your earnings figures will definitely occur over the next month as we scale up our operations. But we will be responsible for the problems and will find way to compensate those of you who are affected by this exercise from our own coffers. We ask that you do not worry as we have all download logs intact and we will live up to our end of the bargain.

Kindly understand that we treat all our contributors as fair and equal business partners and we are aware that first and foremost business partnerships are built based on mutual trust and forging a solid reputation. We are not in the business to ruin our good reputation that we have so painstakingly built over the years by not addressing and subsequently resolving this siutation, but we do ask for your patience and understanding.

123RF.com is constantly growing and as you know, growing means expansion, upgrades and at times, it's just plain difficult trying to grow up. I do hope that you'll accept this explanation for now and kindly give us time (approximately 1 month) to upgrade our infrastructure so that we can achieve both customer and contributor satisfaction to once again win over your trust and develop a win-win situation for everyone.

Thanking you for your kind understanding.

Alex
for 123RF.com

« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2010, 08:51 »
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Thanks Alex. I just sent an email to "submit" concerning a few errors I was seeing prior to reading your entry here. I'm a Data Security Sys-administrator and do understand the growing pains issues. Good luck to you and your team. Thanks...jp

« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2010, 16:21 »
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Important: To date, 15% of downloads are not reported in earnings stats!

Interestingly enough, as I just noticed, there are large download (and, obviously, earning!) count discrepancies between figures at www.123rf.com/myfavimages.php > My Images and www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php -- even taking into account the refund to-and-fro download math at www.123rf.com/submit/downloaded_stats.php.

In other words, assuming the summarized download count at  www.123rf.com/myfavimages.php > My Images for my port equals to 100%, the Downloads Total at www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php shows only about 85% of dls, with earnings reduced accordingly (!)... (Just one example in order to be more specific: at My Images, an image has a statistics of 9 dls, while scrolling through the monthly stats at www.123rf.com/submit/downloaded_stats.php shows only 6 dls and no refunds.)

Needless to say, I have properly documented all the above -- and looking forward for immediate and efficient reaction from the 123RF side. Also, it goes without saying that I will not hesitate to be in touch with my copyright agency, should a necessity arise.

P.S. Just to avoid any misunderstandings: I use static IP for years, do not donate to 123RF and have no habit to download anything from my ports for free...

P.P.S. BTW, according to earlier postings (see www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/here-we-go-again-123rf/), the above problem and "growing difficulties" so nicely described by alex123rf persist at least since September 2009.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 09:16 by krilcis »

« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2010, 09:18 »
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Even more interestingly, as of today, the statistics line Downloads: and consequently, any download figures at www.123rf.com/myfavimages.php > My Images > Sort by No. of download have disappeared at all... The same is valid for contributor's view of image download stats at http://www.123rf.com/photo<_image #>.html... Just a glitch? Or deliberate action in order to make our earning stats even more non-transparent? In any case, after a look at screenshots with all the discrepancies described in my OP, my copyright agent is really interested...

Also, I think it is obvious that at this point, some comment here from Alex would be more than appropriate (to say the least)...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 17:16 by krilcis »

« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2010, 11:32 »
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Now all my earnings data has vanished. I thought they were meant to have sorted the site out.

Same here, sales are not being displayed since yesterday :(

WarrenPrice

« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2010, 12:23 »
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I'm seeing my earnings (correctly, I think) but there is very little to "discrep."   :P

Also, what has happened to review times.  It takes forever to get an image online.

« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2010, 14:00 »
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That's nice to know.  I haven't had any sales showing for today or yesterday and was wondering what was happening .
.

Same here, sales are not being displayed since yesterday :(

lisafx

« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2010, 16:05 »
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That's nice to know.  I haven't had any sales showing for today or yesterday and was wondering what was happening .
Quote from: andresr l
[/quote

Me too.  First time I have ever had two weekdays in a row with no sales there.  This is getting worrying. 


 

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