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Author Topic: Alamy Sold  (Read 6520 times)

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Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 11:07 »
+1
Makes me very glad I never bothered with Alamy. Sometimes just keeping one's operation small and simple is the best approach.

Use scientific names and make sure they are in the title and the keywords. Alamy buyers have been shown to search that way. That's if you decide to upload something for the 40% they pay, which is much better than anything Microstock. And yes, there are far less sales on Alamy. Just for higher prices.

Meanwhile, back to Alamy sold. We won't know for awhile, but anyone who cares should make a copy of the TOS now. I see these contract changes as, my choice is accept or leave, so reading and looking for every word that changed, is much easier. Agree or go away.  :)

PA Media Group has 26 shareholders, many of whom are national and regional newspaper groups. I see this as a buy into the market for people in the newspaper business, so they can make more money from some area of the business, because print media has been on the downturn for 50 years, and the Internet has been the dagger. Notice how many free news sites are now requiring a paid subscription? Free on the Internet is now becoming, pay and monetize on the Internet.

Alamy is a separate division of PA Group. No promise that they always will have things that way, but look at the purchase like buying a division, that produces something related, but different from the parent company or some area they were already involved in. Not the same as Getty buying iStock. https://pamediagroup.com/our-brands/ 

The whole nothing will change is just an assurance, because no one knows what will change. No planned changes, means, we haven't decided yet, what WILL change. There will be changes, that doesn't mean all will be bad or that I expect most will be for our good. The whole claim that PA doesn't want to offend contributors is utter rubbish. They don't care about contributors any more than any other commodity broker does about their sources. The exception is top quality producers or specific hard to acquire products will be treated differently.

If you are shooting Microstock and uploading that to Alamy, don't expect PA to be catering to you or offering any improved deals. If you are shooting news or Editorial, there might be some hope of values holding steady.

Here's how to look into the possible future. Search for what you create, make, take, or whatever you wish to call it. Do a search. If there are already 40 to 100,000, or more, similar images, subjects and generally available "product" for the distributor, they aren't going to care if you are offended, or if you leave. (that's not any person here you or someone specific, like Martha or Sue, I mean anyone in general)

Hamburger
 Stock Photos and Images (165,356)
Cheeseburger
 Stock Photos and Images (48,118)
Ruben Sandwich
 Stock Photos and Images (46)

You might want to shoot a Ruben, not a hamburger?  ;D Sure there's more demand for hamburgers and cheeseburgers (maybe on Microstock and not Alamy?) but when someone is competing with 165K or 40K other, fantastic, great, amazing, best cheeseburger ever, there's not going to be much of a repeat business.

Alamy is not Microstock!


ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 12:07 »
0
Makes me very glad I never bothered with Alamy. Sometimes just keeping one's operation small and simple is the best approach.

Use scientific names and make sure they are in the title and the keywords. Alamy buyers have been shown to search that way.
Some do, most don't. Easy enough to check in Measures.
From Feb 1st 2019 until today:
African Wild Dog: 28 searches + 2 for % African Wild Dog
Lycaon pictus: 7 searches.

American Bison: 9 searches + 2 for % American Bison; really? In just over a year?! I'm astonished!)
American Buffalo: 9
Bison bison: 2

Red Kangaroo: 21
Macropus rufus: 3

So obviously put scientific names in (who, who had a clue, wouldn't?), as you would anywhere, and I know Martha does; but don't hold your breath.

These are just three examples chosen at random from different continents but you can pick your own species and check for yourself.

I just noticed recently that whereas previously, Measures was a selected portion of Alamy buyers, it now represents "all searches from customers who have spent money on Alamy within a specified date range."

Whether an indie who placed wildlife pics on Alamy would gain enough sales they wouldn't otherwise have got to make the effort worthwhile, who knows? IMO, probably not.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:26 by ShadySue »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 12:39 »
0
Makes me very glad I never bothered with Alamy. Sometimes just keeping one's operation small and simple is the best approach.

Use scientific names and make sure they are in the title and the keywords. Alamy buyers have been shown to search that way.
Some do, most don't. Easy enough to check in Measures.
From Feb 1st 2019 until today:
African Wild Dog: 28 searches + 2 for % African Wild Dog
Lycaon pictus: 7 searches.

American Bison: 9 searches + 2 for % American Bison; really? In just over a year?! I'm astonished!)
American Buffalo: 9
Bison bison: 2

Red Kangaroo: 21
Macropus rufus: 3

So obviously put scientific names in (who, who had a clue, wouldn't?), as you would anywhere, and I know Martha does; but don't hold your breath.

These are just three examples chosen at random from different continents but you can pick your own species and check for yourself.

I just noticed recently that whereas previously, Measures was a selected portion of Alamy buyers, it now represents "all searches from customers who have spent money on Alamy within a specified date range."

Whether an indie who placed wildlife pics on Alamy would gain enough sales they wouldn't otherwise have got to make the effort worthwhile, who knows? IMO, probably not.

Sales from Scientific names, not searches. That comes from people who use scientific names and have sales.

I don't expect that wildlife is a best seller on Alamy, nor that someone with the same images, exclusive on IS and Getty would have better sales on Alamy.

Interesting:  "all searches from customers who have spent money on Alamy within a specified date range."

Meanwhile "nothing will change"  ::) Until it does...

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 12:54 »
0
..., nor that someone with the same images, exclusive on IS and Getty would have better sales on Alamy.
That's not possible under the terms of both contracts.
I specifically mentioned indies.

« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2020, 13:00 »
0
I was under the impression that only a fraction of the Alamy costumers have their searches recorded for the Alamy Measures feature. I thought it's was most frequent and steady buyers. Unless they changed it.

One of the best sellers of Alamy has a huge portfolio of nature.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 13:03 by MicroVet »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2020, 13:04 »
0
Sales from Scientific names, not searches. That comes from people who use scientific names and have sales.
Yes, but only a very few people are reporting that. Clearly, if the buyers were always buying on scientific names, which isn't true, that would be even more evidence for Alamy not being a great place to sell wildlife.
Who wouldn't put in the scientific names except the clueless, who probably don't know what the species is? (Lots of species misidentifications and deliberate spam on Alamy, as with all the micros.)
If you look at the monthly reports, and the recent sales threads, there's a good photographer of mostly wildlife (she's branching out more recently). You one might think that she makes a lot of sales and a lot of dollars, but her port is nearly 21500k, so actually her Alamy sales/earnings, considering her port quality and size is shockingly low.

I was just opining that Martha probably hasn't lost much by not submitting to Alamy.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 13:38 by ShadySue »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2020, 13:52 »
0
Sales from Scientific names, not searches. That comes from people who use scientific names and have sales.
Yes, but only a very few people are reporting that. Clearly, if the buyers were always buying on scientific names, which isn't true, that would be even more evidence for Alamy not being a great place to sell wildlife.
Who wouldn't put in the scientific names except the clueless, who probably don't know what the species is? (Lots of species misidentifications and deliberate spam on Alamy, as with all the micros.)
If you look at the monthly reports, and the recent sales threads, there's a good photographer of mostly wildlife (she's branching out more recently). You one might think that she makes a lot of sales and a lot of dollars, but her port is nearly 21500k, so actually her Alamy sales/earnings, considering her port quality and size is shockingly low.

I was just opining that Martha probably hasn't lost much by not submitting to Alamy.

You answered your own question.  ;D

You mean an IS exclusive can't sell similar images on Alamy? Or that an IS exclusives doesn't make more per download than an indie does on IS, including having Getty and IS distribution?

If you meant an indie on IS verses the same person with the same images on Alamy, that would be something for a person who does that to come and answer?

I can't I don't do wildlife, or if I have any it's nothing like you or Martha have. My ground squirrel, birds in the yard or ants, isn't wild enough.  :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2020, 14:11 »
0
I was under the impression that only a fraction of the Alamy costumers have their searches recorded for the Alamy Measures feature. I thought it's was most frequent and steady buyers. Unless they changed it.
That's what I said, they changed it. I quoted what they now say on the All of Alamy measures page, check it out for yourself.

Quote
One of the best sellers of Alamy has a huge portfolio of nature.
Nature, not specifically wildlife, if it's the person I'm thinking of, and if it's that person, he is very concerned about diminishing sales and rpd.
Even if it's not the same person, you say this person has 'a huge portfolio'. Like the woman I referenced earlier, they'd probably have done much, much better elseswhere.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 14:22 »
0

You mean an IS exclusive can't sell similar images on Alamy?
That's not what you said. You said, "nor that someone with the same images, exclusive on IS and Getty would have better sales on Alamy."

Quote
If you meant an indie on IS verses the same person with the same images on Alamy, that would be something for a person who does that to come and answer?
I meant any indie, not an indie on IS. Word is that almost everyone who has a similar number of similar subjects on micros and Alamy does better on the micros. And it's not just because the files are cheaper. For the last 3, maybe 4 years on the trot, my highest netting sale has been via iS.

MicroVet may be the only person who is * that trend. The only two other people who have said they do better on Alamy than they do on iS or micros in general have tiny or microscopic ports on the micro/s and large ones on Alamy. One of the loudest shouters about how few sales he got on iS compared to how many he got on Alamy, at the time I checked it out, fewer than 20, sic, twenty, files on iS and over 20K on Alamy.
There are several people who joined one or more micros with the recent commission cut, or in the past year, and they are generally astonished that they are doing pretty well, mostly better than they do nowadays on Alamy. Some of them were previously extremely anti-micro.

Quote
I can't I don't do wildlife, or if I have any it's nothing like you or Martha have. My ground squirrel, birds in the yard or ants, isn't wild enough.  :)
But perhaps surprisingly, that's exactly what a lot of buyers want. Relatable wildlife, wildlife in your backyard, what can you do for wildlife?, sort of stuff.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 14:52 by ShadySue »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2020, 14:05 »
+2
No I wouldn't expect anyone to do better on Alamy with much of anything, than they do on Microstock. Especially wildlife. That wasn't my point. They could make something, and Alamy pays at minimum 3 times more for a low price license, than a sub on most sites. Not better, not an alternative, just another possibility.

You are using yourself as an example, but you are Exclusive, get better commission, better placement because your images are on Getty as well. Someone independent will get the same old 15% on IS and who knows what on Alamy at 40%. I'd say they should at least try and find out, before the easy conclusion, "not worth trying" so I'll give up without giving Alamy a chance.

This is the same as when you asked about Shutterstock and then decided without an upload, that you would never make any income and be better off donating the images to charity. Yes I know your mind is made up. I think others might consider at least trying before they give up because nothing will sell? Could be right, make that very likely right. SS has come down to being more subs than anything else, and you would be starting at 25c a DL for the first $500 which is 2,000 downloads at worst. Not a very positive outlook in today's market?

I'd say take the 20 best or if someone has many more images, 50 or the 100 best. Upload to Alamy and wait a year. No harm done is giving Alamy a chance. If they don't make anything, good-bye. If they do, that's nice.



I still don't know anyone who made money on Alamy by never uploading anything?  :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2020, 17:24 »
0

This is the same as when you asked about Shutterstock and then decided without an upload, that you would never make any income and be better off donating the images to charity. Yes I know your mind is made up. I think others might consider at least trying before they give up because nothing will sell?
I'm not saying people shouldn't upload at Alamy. My comment was made only to Martha.
Did you actually see the numbers I quoted for searches on three very common wildlife species on Alamy: and that was searches, not necesarily sales.

I personally know some Live News togs who are doing very well on Alamy; actually for at least one of them, it's his full-time income. One of them opined she wouldn't want to upload to the micros, and I said, "of course not, none of them is any use for Live News".
Horses for courses.

I don't make decisions out of the blue. (or at least I try not to). I actually know two SS submitters who sell the same subjects as me from the same broad area (where we all live) and although they combined their SS ports to get up through the commission ranks quicker, they're not doing well (and in fact have given up uploading altogether). If I uploaded my existing port there, and realistically with my current commitments, that's all I could do, ALL I could hope to do is get some share of of their meagre takings - and I'd be taking a big hit at iS which is already 1/3rd of the glory days, and that after a LOT of work. That would make no sense at all.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 07:33 by ShadySue »

« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2020, 06:25 »
+1
Quote from: ShadySue on February 13, 2020, 14:22

MicroVet may be the only person who is * that trend. The only two other people who have said they do better on Alamy than they do on iS or micros in general have tiny or microscopic ports on the micro/s and large ones on Alamy. One of the loudest shouters about how few sales he got on iS compared to how many he got on Alamy, at the time I checked it out, fewer than 20, sic, twenty, files on iS and over 20K on Alamy.
There are several people who joined one or more micros with the recent commission cut, or in the past year, and they are generally astonished that they are doing pretty well, mostly better than they do nowadays on Alamy. Some of them were previously extremely anti-micro.




Despite having a larger portfolio on alamy than I have o IS, the amount I've earned in both agencies is almost a copy from each other year by year. Even in the HUGE downfall of earnings (85 to 90%) seems a copy.

The portfolio of IS is part of my alamy portfolio and the alamy exclusive images, although selling, were largely outperformed by the micro ones on alamy.

Alamy did very well in the past if you took the time to keyword well and maximize the chances to appear in the first pages. Today, even being in the first pages does not guarantee sales.

Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.

The rest of the stock agencies are not much better. The price war between agencies summed up with greed, plus the inability for photographers to organize themselves, and photographers submitting to every new piece of s**t of agencies that competed on low price killed the industry.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2020, 12:28 »
+1

This is the same as when you asked about Shutterstock and then decided without an upload, that you would never make any income and be better off donating the images to charity. Yes I know your mind is made up. I think others might consider at least trying before they give up because nothing will sell?
I'm not saying people shouldn't upload at Alamy. My comment was made only to Martha.
Did you actually see the numbers I quoted for searches on three very common wildlife species on Alamy: and that was searches, not necesarily sales.

I personally know some Live News togs who are doing very well on Alamy; actually for at least of them, it's his full-time income. One of them opined she wouldn't want to upload to the micros, and I said, "of course not, none of them is any use for Live News".
Horses for courses.

I don't make decisions out of the blue. (or at least I try not to). I actually know two SS submnitters who sell the same subjects as me from the same broad area (where we all live) and although they combined their SS ports to get up through the commission ranks quicker, they're not doing well (and in fact have given up uploading altogether). If I uploaded my existing port there, and realistically with my current commitments, that's all I could do, ALL I could hope to do is get some share of of their meagre takings - and I'd be taking a big hit at iS which is already 1/3rd of the glory days, and that after a LOT of work. That would make no sense at all.

Horses for courses. sums it up very well.  :)

I don't suggest you submit to SS, and I don't think anyone with any subject should expect to make more on Alamy than they will on IS with the Exclusive account. I don't suppose you would make up dropping exclusive by adding AS and SS either. But an independent person who is already on various sites, shouldn't be discouraged from at least trying Alamy?

That's where we differ.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2020, 12:39 »
+1

Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.
Last year I had my best year ever on Alamy for sales; but my gross earnings (from my dashboard graph) were 22% down on 2018.
Relatively poor January 2020, nothing yet in Feb.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 20:51 by ShadySue »

« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2020, 19:45 »
+2
I had my best year ever for both sales and money on Alamy in 2019, but it still didn't come close to SS or Canva and was pretty far behind AS (but ahead of most of the others).  Revue per accepted image averaged maybe 2 cents per month, so similar to some of the micros.  After a great year last year so far nothing in 2020 so that is a disappointment.  Sales there have always been sporadic, although rare to go more than a month with nothing..

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2020, 22:52 »
+1

Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.
Last year I had my best year ever on Alamy for sales; but my gross earnings (from my dashboard graph) were 22% down on 2018.
Relatively poor January 2020, nothing yet in Feb.

Income is down for me too. Commissions, RPD is down on Alamy too. More sales than most years, less money.

Biggest single sale was a food shot from almost ten years ago, that has no sales anywhere else in that time. Gross $125 50%, Alamy is totally unpredictable and not Microstock. But also just like you said, lower and lower, every year.
 
But I'll promise you, I've never made a sale off an image on my hard drive that wasn't uploaded.  :)

« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2020, 08:27 »
0

Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.
Last year I had my best year ever on Alamy for sales; but my gross earnings (from my dashboard graph) were 22% down on 2018.
Relatively poor January 2020, nothing yet in Feb.

Income is down for me too. Commissions, RPD is down on Alamy too. More sales than most years, less money.

Biggest single sale was a food shot from almost ten years ago, that has no sales anywhere else in that time. Gross $125 50%, Alamy is totally unpredictable and not Microstock. But also just like you said, lower and lower, every year.
 
But I'll promise you, I've never made a sale off an image on my hard drive that wasn't uploaded.  :)

Alamy what should I shoot. https://www.alamy.com/blog/what-should-i-shoot-let-us-introduce-you-to-a-new-tool

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2020, 08:49 »
+1
Alamy what should I shoot. https://www.alamy.com/blog/what-should-i-shoot-let-us-introduce-you-to-a-new-tool
I haven't read many (if any?) people reporting sales from shooting for that list, and a few anecdotal posts where people have said they've uploaded from the list, and they haven't sold.

Of the few on this list which are relatively near me:
One (95 miles away) was a church which had an embezzlement scandal attached to it a couple of years ago, which is why it would have been searched.
One (56 miles) was an orphanage which had a historic child abuse scandal uncovered, also a couple of years back, again probably leading to the search. It was knocked down in 1971, but obviously someone could have an archival photo of it. Again, that was probably wanted to illustrate articles covering the scandal when it was uncovered, but could, I suppose, be wanted for a book on the subject of 'child abuse cases in orphanages'. (But how long would the author wait before just publishing without the image?) Or it could be wanted for someone doing a PhD on the subject, therefore sold for a low price.
Alamy says all the items on the list are subject to 'ongoing requests', but in these two cases, I'm doubtful.

One (only c12 miles, whoop!) is for a high building which has no angle from which you could shoot a 'clear, complete front elevation' (well maybe with a total pancake lens, I don't know), because there are traffic lights, two bus stops, parking spaces and permanent bollards in front. The near-photographic architect's illustrations which are online don't show these. You'd need to do a lot of photoshop work to remove all of these, and there's no indication that the file wouldn't sell for $5 or less gross at the end of that.

One request from the search was a town in Australia which had over 2k pics on Alamy already, mostly very good. So the searcher should perhaps have been more specific than just the town name!

So while there would be no harm in togs shooting and submitting anything on the list that's near them or near where they will be travelling, having looked at what's already on Alamy and researched whether the entity still exists; probably it wouldn't be worth spending money making special trips.
Honestly, how many potential buyers still want the photo after a couple of years? They'll either have satisficed with what's available or published with no photo.
Of course, if you searched All of Alamy for the past year* and found the entity had some searches but no hits, it might still be worth going and shooting it, though it might be the same person regularly searching, and no indication of the sale value.

*what a lot of time I'd have saved had I done that, in general!

« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 10:13 by ShadySue »

« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2020, 12:48 »
0

Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.
Last year I had my best year ever on Alamy for sales; but my gross earnings (from my dashboard graph) were 22% down on 2018.
Relatively poor January 2020, nothing yet in Feb.

Income is down for me too. Commissions, RPD is down on Alamy too. More sales than most years, less money.

Biggest single sale was a food shot from almost ten years ago, that has no sales anywhere else in that time. Gross $125 50%, Alamy is totally unpredictable and not Microstock. But also just like you said, lower and lower, every year.
 
But I'll promise you, I've never made a sale off an image on my hard drive that wasn't uploaded.  :)

Give up now you'll never win with logic.


Last year, compared to my best years, I had about half the sales. On top of that, each sale (Net) averages around 18% of what each license used to earn me back then.
Last year I had my best year ever on Alamy for sales; but my gross earnings (from my dashboard graph) were 22% down on 2018.
Relatively poor January 2020, nothing yet in Feb.

Income is down for me too. Commissions, RPD is down on Alamy too. More sales than most years, less money.

Biggest single sale was a food shot from almost ten years ago, that has no sales anywhere else in that time. Gross $125 50%, Alamy is totally unpredictable and not Microstock. But also just like you said, lower and lower, every year.
 
But I'll promise you, I've never made a sale off an image on my hard drive that wasn't uploaded.  :)

Alamy what should I shoot. https://www.alamy.com/blog/what-should-i-shoot-let-us-introduce-you-to-a-new-tool

Terrible idea looking at what the agency tells us to upload. What do they know?

PZF

« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2020, 04:07 »
0
Sales truly feeble recently, all tiny sums.

Just hope that decent sales aren't going to be replaced by contests, 'community' and other such 'fun' stuff like at 500px......

:(

« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2020, 10:12 »
0
Sales truly feeble recently, all tiny sums.

Just hope that decent sales aren't going to be replaced by contests, 'community' and other such 'fun' stuff like at 500px......

:(

Not to mention refunds and the personal use scam buyers use (probably with the help of distributors) to get commercial uses but paying for micro sums.


 

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