MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Bigstock.com => Topic started by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 14:14

Title: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 14:14
As you know, we already offer Bigstock customers the flexibility of pre-paying with credits. Next week, we’ll be offering our customers an increasingly popular way to buy images: subscriptions.

How will this affect me?

Subscriptions can generate higher download volumes, which can increase your total earnings from Bigstock. Here’s how you will earn royalties from Bigstock subscriptions:

Every time one of your images is downloaded using a subscription, you will earn a royalty.
 
The more downloads you’ve acquired in the previous 12 months, the higher your royalty will be, up to $0.38USD per download.

Here are the details:

(see screenshot attached below)
 
Any Bigstock download will be counted to determine which royalty tier is applied, regardless of how our customers license the image.
Credit and partner royalties will remain unchanged.
Extended licenses cannot be purchased using a subscription, and will continue to generate a royalty of up to $29.70.
Are there any other updates?

Yes. We have put in place a 250,000 print run limitation on our Standard License. We believe this will increase demand for Extended Licenses, generating higher royalties for you from Bigstock.

We are also simplifying our Standard Image License terms to bring Bigstock more closely in line with industry standards for royalty-free licenses.

What if I have questions?

If you have any questions, just reply to this email. We're here to help.

Cheers,
Ben Pfeifer,
GM, Bigstock


The thing that gives me the shivvers is the 12-month totals for qualifying for subscription payment levels. If they do the RC-like system there, is it going to spread to the mother ship?
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 07, 2013, 14:15
Did they get this frustrating "last 12 months" idea from 123?
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 14:20
123rf got it from iStock, BigStock got it from 123rf, and up next?

It makes me think of doing so more portfolio pulling - I'm on a roll and thoroughly pissed off to see the cancer metastasizing
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 07, 2013, 14:25
It definitely has me thinking of pulling my port too. I'm not very interested in more sub sites (less subs sites would be nice).
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Dark_Angel on February 07, 2013, 14:28
Horrible. I get 38 cents per sub-dl on Shutterstock. I didn't use the bridge to Bigstock, to get less money there.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MatHayward on February 07, 2013, 14:29
I don't upload to this site though I got the email too so I must have opened an account a while back.  Do they produce any results?  Was it worth uploading there even before this announcement?

-Mat
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 14:29
Did I miss where it says what the starting royalty rate would be? Surely they're not basing this on 2012 total sales, since that would put pretty much everyone below $0.30.

Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sc on February 07, 2013, 14:33
Horrible. I get 38 cents per sub-dl on Shutterstock. I didn't use the bridge to Bigstock, to get less money there.

Exactly.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dbvirago on February 07, 2013, 14:35
So, everyone with over 50,000 downloads in the past 12 months gets the .38. That should pretty much be everybody, right?
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 07, 2013, 14:38
It definitely has me thinking of pulling my port too. I'm not very interested in more sub sites (less subs sites would be nice).

Oops. This came out wrong. I meant to say Shutterstock is the best. They love us all.   ;D
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 07, 2013, 14:41
Who cares about BS..... nobody really buys from them anyhow :) They are an easy place to leave at any time. I'm part of the bridge with 4000 vectors at BS. If I don't like the results in a month or so I'll leave with little lose of income. This new low rate was soooooooo..... very dumb from such a lower earner it's more funny then anything. Not a smooth move for BS. oh well :)
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 07, 2013, 14:42
.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 14:42
Those milestones seem impossible to hit. 50k would be hard to do even at SS, and they're the volume leader in this business. At Bigstock? It's impossible.

If a stupid idea like this ever migrates over to SS, the milestones will be equally outrageous, probably just multiplied to compensate for the higher volume SS does. And if that happens, I'm probably out of business.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 07, 2013, 14:49
It makes me think of doing so more portfolio pulling - I'm on a roll and thoroughly pissed off to see the cancer metastasizing

My mood exactly.  I sure have been saving time checking on stats though.  Not to mention that BS has gotten progressively worse in my spreadsheet too, wouldn't affect me much if they turn into a 25cent subscription-only site because I would leave pretty quickly!
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 07, 2013, 14:50
Those milestones seem impossible to hit. 50k would be hard to do even at SS, and they're the volume leader in this business. At Bigstock? It's impossible.

If a stupid idea like this ever migrates over to SS, the milestones will be equally outrageous, probably just multiplied to compensate for the higher volume SS does. And if that happens, I'm probably out of business.

That's why you experiment with it first in your laboratory at Bigstock before you move it to your cash cow.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: heyoka on February 07, 2013, 14:53
I never went to Shutterstock, because of the subscriptions! Instead, I went to Bigstock (in 2007).
Now, here we are. *sigh*

The same with my health insurance. Wanted to get away from my old company and went to another one. Guess, who - after some years - bought my new company.

I feel trapped, somehow.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: luissantos84 on February 07, 2013, 14:55
another great joke, from 38 cents at SS to 25 at BigStock, not worried because BigStock is like my 98th best agency but Jon is becoming a very good friend of us, anyway will see the volume of subs...
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Sadstock on February 07, 2013, 15:04
I'm sure this and the change to the SS referral program are the direct result of being publically traded and the need to improve the bottom line every quarter.  I'm sure every six months or so from now until SS is no longer worth it, there will be some new policy that cuts total income from contributors in some way.   
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 07, 2013, 15:04
I personally don't give a f*** about BS. never joined them. The thing that make my very worry is the fact that BS is owned by Shutterstock; and 60% of my total microstock earnings came from SS ( and I don't talking about a several hundred dollars here)  . I really hope this ''cancer that started with IS  extended to 123RF and now BS will not affect SS.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: steheap on February 07, 2013, 15:10
I just checked my stats - with a 3800 image portfolio, I sold 353 images in 2012, so I qualify for the 27c royalty for subscriptions. Crazy...

Steve
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 15:13
Those milestones seem impossible to hit. ...
If a stupid idea like this ever migrates over to SS...

Yes and yes.

The migration to the mother ship is the big worry. Perhaps Jon read the other thread suggesting we wanted a raise at SS and this is his way of getting that restive mood to go away :)

If you put a few heads on pikes outside the castle, the peasants revolt less...
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cathyslife on February 07, 2013, 15:14
Who cares about BS..... nobody really buys from them anyhow :) They are an easy place to leave at any time. I'm part of the bridge with 4000 vectors at BS. If I don't like the results in a month or so I'll leave with little lose of income. This new low rate was soooooooo..... very dumb from such a lower earner it's more funny then anything. Not a smooth move for BS. oh well :)
Isn't Bigstock owned by Shutterstock now?  Expect more changes from the "top tier".


Yeah, I don't get this. I thought they kept SS for the subs and bought BigStock to tap the PPD crowd. Now they are just duplicating companies. I suppose it is all about the bottom line. <sigh> Guess I will delete my port once I reach a payout. I don't make much there anyway, but things were improving since istockgetty has been biting the dust. I had high hopes, Guess not.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 15:17
I personally don't give a f*** about BS. never joined them. The thing that make my very worry is the fact that BS is owned by Shutterstock; and 60% of my total microstock earnings came from SS ( and I don't talking about a several hundred dollars here)  . I really hope this ''cancer that started with IS  extended to 123RF and now BS will not affect SS.

Yup, a test for a future RC system at SS I'd bet.
Say what you will about 123 at least their targets are obtainable, unlike IS and now BS.
If SS go down this route they'd better have some reachable target levels if they want to keep contributors on side.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 15:20
The migration to the mother ship is the big worry. Perhaps Jon read the other thread suggesting we wanted a raise at SS and this is his way of getting that restive mood to go away :)

If you put a few heads on pikes outside the castle, the peasants revolt less...

You know, that sounds about right here. How do you get people to give up on the idea of a raise? You make their current rate seem like a gift.

Better yet, you make the current rate seem like a reward for those who can reach it.

The financial implications for us is one thing. The real kick in the teeth for me is that this reads like a page out of the istock playbook. It's an RC system with impossible-to-reach goals. Very few people retained their 20% at istock. Very few people will match the $0.38 they're getting from SS over at Bigstock. And if this ever does make it's way over to SS, you can bet that it will be more of the same. Another set of impossible goals, just dangling that $0.38 carrot out there while almost no one will be able to reach it.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: jcpjr on February 07, 2013, 15:22
It can be a little unsettling when a company goes Public for those that rely on a paycheck. I've seen it too many times. It's a power play for the shareholders....oh, and btw, hows your Apple shares doing? Scarey huh?
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 15:24
You know, that sounds about right here. How do you get people to give up on the idea of a raise? You make their current rate seem like a gift.

Better yet, you make the current rate seem like a reward for those who can reach it.

The financial implications for us is one thing. The real kick in the teeth for me is that this reads like a page out of the istock playbook. It's an RC system with impossible-to-reach goals. Very few people retained their 20% at istock. Very few people will match the $0.38 they're getting from SS over at Bigstock. And if this ever does make it's way over to SS, you can bet that it will be more of the same. Another set of impossible goals, just dangling that $0.38 carrot out there while almost no one will be able to reach it.

I just did my sums for the last year, and based on my earnings I don't think anyone will reach the 38c, in fact I doubt anyone will even reach 35c.

Anyone reading this that will, correct me if I'm wrong
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Snufkin on February 07, 2013, 15:25
I guess it is time to look for an alternative occupation. I don't think there is any future in this business.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: daveh900 on February 07, 2013, 15:31
I had almost 1600 downloads during my best month at Shutterstock.

My by rough calculations, I will have to do 160% more downloads at BigStock than my best month at Shutterstock just to make the same commission of $.38 per download.

I make 95% less per month at BigStock than Shutterstock as it is.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 07, 2013, 15:32
I just did my sums for the last year, and based on my earnings I don't think anyone will reach the 38c, in fact I doubt anyone will even reach 35c.

Anyone reading this that will, correct me if I'm wrong

I won't  be correcting you.  I'm one of their better sellers and I will be stuck squarely on .31, based on last year's totals.  I don't see any sales trends that would make me believe next years will be different. 

Anyone who thinks SS or Jon Oringer are the second coming of J-e-s-u-s  C-h-r-i-s-t is in for a very, very rude awakening. 

(seriously, j-e-s-u-s c-h-r-i-s-t reverts to jeepers creepers????)
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 07, 2013, 15:34
I personally don't give a f*** about BS. never joined them. The thing that make my very worry is the fact that BS is owned by Shutterstock; and 60% of my total microstock earnings came from SS ( and I don't talking about a several hundred dollars here)  . I really hope this ''cancer that started with IS  extended to 123RF and now BS will not affect SS.

Yup, a test for a future RC system at SS I'd bet.
Say what you will about 123 at least their targets are obtainable, unlike IS and now BS.
If SS go down this route they'd better have some reachable target levels if they want to keep contributors on side.

The funny thing is... when IS gone down the road WE the contributors had a very viable alternative named SS which grew rapidly and steadily. If SS will fallow the IS path, what alternative we will have?.......... NONE. This is my big worry.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 07, 2013, 15:37

The funny thing is... when IS gone down the road WE the contributors had a very viable alternative named SS which grew rapidly and steadily. If SS will fallow the IS path, what alternative we will have?.......... NONE. This is my big worry.

The only alternative I can see, other than getting out of stock entirely, would be to stop uploading to micros altogether and put any future shoots into RM. 

Was a fun ride while it lasted. 
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 07, 2013, 15:46
Anyone who thinks SS or Jon Oringer are the second coming of J-e-s-u-s  C-h-r-i-s-t is in for a very, very rude awakening.

LOL. I just hope this and the referral thing open some eyes. Maybe hurtling towards the Sun at a million miles an hour like a space monkey on the rocket ship SS isn't the best course.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 07, 2013, 15:47

The funny thing is... when IS gone down the road WE the contributors had a very viable alternative named SS which grew rapidly and steadily. If SS will fallow the IS path, what alternative we will have?.......... NONE. This is my big worry.

The only alternative I can see, other than getting out of stock entirely, would be to stop uploading to micros altogether and put any future shoots into RM. 

Was a fun ride while it lasted.

Interesting idea... BUT... Today many people are affording good DSLR's and they upload on microstock sites. Even if we (MSG members) pull out our entire portfolios from a agency ( top 4 agency) they will loose max. 1-1.5 millions files. I think the hole will be filled very fast by others.  :(
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 07, 2013, 15:49
Those milestones seem impossible to hit. ...
If a stupid idea like this ever migrates over to SS...


Yes and yes.

The migration to the mother ship is the big worry. Perhaps Jon read the other thread suggesting we wanted a raise at SS and this is his way of getting that restive mood to go away :)

If you put a few heads on pikes outside the castle, the peasants revolt less...


I very much doubt if it was a response to my thread. I have been paying attention to actions at SS over the last year and I think they have shifted into full mode to reduce costs per sale at our expense. The big question will be, are we going to let them get away with it? I know I would rather pitch a tent until we can get a fair co op up and running than let them continue to rob us.

This comment made by analyst in the businessweek investment article pretty much sums it up. In my opinion they started reducing cost per sale with the addition of new search engine.  And that is just a start to long term plans.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=SSTK (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=SSTK)
"Year over year, Shutterstock, Inc. has been able to grow revenues from $83.0M USD to $120.3M USD. Most impressively, the company has been able to reduce the percentage of sales devoted to cost of goods sold from 38.99% to 37.83%. This was a driver that led to a bottom line growth from $18.9M USD to $21.9M USD"

I quit buying at IS because they showed their true colors and I will do the same with SS.  IS and SS were successful because they were powered by people.  When they forget that it does not take long for word to get out and mindsets to switch.

Getty does not get that while we submit we are also some of its biggest customers. If SS wants to go down that road they will learn this as well.

Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 07, 2013, 15:52

The funny thing is... when IS gone down the road WE the contributors had a very viable alternative named SS which grew rapidly and steadily. If SS will fallow the IS path, what alternative we will have?.......... NONE. This is my big worry.

The only alternative I can see, other than getting out of stock entirely, would be to stop uploading to micros altogether and put any future shoots into RM. 

Was a fun ride while it lasted.

Agreed I started working on a RM port Nov 2011. I see things swinging back to RM. Some companies just can't use MS for their projects. RM is on the rise.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: KuriousKat on February 07, 2013, 15:54
I am sentimental about Bigstock because I started out there. But, Bridge to Bigstock gives me 6 months at 38c then my port comes down. I am not accepting low BS rates, (no pun intended), when I can get 38c on Shutterstock who OWN Bigstock. This doesn't make sense - Shutterstock are allowing a company they own to undercut them? It does appear to be a race for the bottom that I won't be a part of. I won't let a small player cannibalise my sales at Shutterstock, regardless of sentiment.

I expect this sort of behaviour from some sites but I thought Shutterstock/Bigstock were above this.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 07, 2013, 15:57
Look at recent happenings at FT, IS, SS, and now BS. Nobody gets 50,000 downloads/year at Bigstock.

There is no future in microstock. Pulling my portfolios today.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Tryingmybest on February 07, 2013, 16:00
Did they get this frustrating "last 12 months" idea from 123?

Agreed. These people are ridiculous. Maybe they're trying to wreck Bigstock with the hopes of closing it and send all customers to SS.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 07, 2013, 16:01
5
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Tryingmybest on February 07, 2013, 16:02
I say we all send Mr. Ben Pfeifer email messages with our thoughts. http://www.bigstockphoto.com/contactus.html (http://www.bigstockphoto.com/contactus.html)

I am sentimental about Bigstock because I started out there. But, Bridge to Bigstock gives me 6 months at 38c then my port comes down. I am not accepting low BS rates, (no pun intended), when I can get 38c on Shutterstock who OWN Bigstock. This doesn't make sense - Shutterstock are allowing a company they own to undercut them? It does appear to be a race for the bottom that I won't be a part of. I won't let a small player cannibalise my sales at Shutterstock, regardless of sentiment.

I expect this sort of behaviour from some sites but I thought Shutterstock/Bigstock were above this.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Oldhand on February 07, 2013, 16:07
So all my pics at SS you can down download cheaper at BS? Given the volume of contributors contributing to both agencies, as a buyer I might ditch SS for a cheaper deal at BS.

It's not like SS and BS have totally different sets of customers. Doesn't seem to bode well for the future..
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 07, 2013, 16:07
I am sentimental about Bigstock because I started out there. But, Bridge to Bigstock gives me 6 months at 38c then my port comes down. I am not accepting low BS rates, (no pun intended), when I can get 38c on Shutterstock who OWN Bigstock. This doesn't make sense - Shutterstock are allowing a company they own to undercut them? It does appear to be a race for the bottom that I won't be a part of. I won't let a small player cannibalise my sales at Shutterstock, regardless of sentiment.

I expect this sort of behaviour from some sites but I thought Shutterstock/Bigstock were above this.

BS is virtually SS. i believe SS introduced subscriptions on BS with very high commission targets as a result of a general expenses cuts strategy . I believe they know very well that some sales will be cannibalized from SS. But on BS they will pay less/sub. The BS sub. strategy combined with the SS referrals cuts will spear SS/BS company of a consistent sum of money. Course sums of money out of our pockets.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 07, 2013, 16:11
Guys, the Shutterstock referral cutoff and Bigstock subscription model announced in the same week, I think it's pretty obvious what's going on. Everybody needs to get out of microstock...now.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: imageZebra on February 07, 2013, 16:14

The thing that gives me the shivvers is the 12-month totals for qualifying for subscription payment levels. If they do the RC-like system there, is it going to spread to the mother ship?

Now I am wondering if it's worth to upload new stuff. $0.25 with 12-month count would undermined the purpose. Unless they agree to forgo the 12-month count or give us option to opt out of subscription for individual images or the whole collection I rather stop uploading my new images.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 16:17

I emailed Bigstock to clarify how the initial subscription rates would be set, since we don't have 12 months of subscription sales data to use to set our rates. The answer I got was that they will still use the last 12 months of data to set the initial rates.

So when this kicks off next week I'll be at $0.27.

No one starts at the upper rates, we have to work our way up there, if that is even possible.

Our rate will change as soon as stats from the last 12 months totals out to the next royalty rate tier.

Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Anita Potter on February 07, 2013, 16:26
How can you even tell how many downloads you get there over the past 12 months.  I'm not going to take the money and get an average.

I'll probably be on the lower tier anyway.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Noedelhap on February 07, 2013, 16:27
I don't give a rat's ass about Bigstock. I had less than 50 sales last year. The thing that worries me is that the trend is becoming too obvious. RC-like systems, unreachable levels, it's all spreading like a plague.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Noedelhap on February 07, 2013, 16:28
How can you even tell how many downloads you get there over the past 12 months.  I'm not going to take the money and get an average.

I'll probably be on the lower tier anyway.

Image statistics, choose a custom time frame of the past 12 months using the calendar in the right top corner.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 16:30
Here's the e-mail I just sent:

Mr. Pfeifer,

I'm not sure what you're thinking in implementing the schedule of contributor compensation outlined in your e-mail earlier today.

You must be aware of the low-earning status BigStock has for most contributors . Bottom-tier sites get supplied by contributors - in spite of their low earnings - as long as they meet several criteria. One is ease of upload; two is that they don't undercut a higher-earning site; and three is that they have decent royalty rates and a low payout threshold.

In the past, Big Stock has just about met all three of those (I have been with BigStock since 2005, with a hiatus from 2008-11 as an iStock exclusive and a new account when I returned in 2011). Your e-mail this morning has shot two of those three criteria in the head and the uploads are only OK - nothing like the easiest out there.

With the low earnings, it makes it very easy for contributors to walk away from BigStock, and with a recent rash of bad behavior by agencies, existing contributors are significantly on edge. Realistically, 50,000 downloads a year - even subscription downloads - isn't something that most of your contributors will ever reach. Many never will on Shutterstock, where the volume of business is much, much larger. And for heaven's sake don't even consider making some argument that you'll double, triple (or whatever) sales at BigStock in the next year or two. Not realistic.

Perhaps you aren't concerned about losing existing contributors and feel that there is an endless supply of willing participants with a nice point and shoot who'll supply you with content when the current crop of malcontents leaves. If that's the case, you're certainly making sure we head quickly for the exit.

If you have any concern about keeping your existing contributors, I strongly urge you to promptly reconsider this move. It is strongly reminiscent of the moves airlines made a few years ago for a two-tier pay system for pilots - one for the regional jets and one for the long-haul ones. From that, they tried to move jets classified as "regional" to the longer routes and move the pay scale with it. The real worry here isn't BigStock, but that you're looking to try this compensation scheme out and then move it to Shutterstock.

In the IPO documents, amid all the flowery words about a virtuous cycle, was a note of risks for the business. One was that contributors would no longer want to continue supplying you with content. You have the storefront but contributors own the content. Do you really want to start alienating your contributors when in general you are one of the respected agencies? Why just throw away all that goodwill you've spent so long building?

regards,

Jo Ann Snover (jsnover on both sites and contributor 249 at Shuttersock)
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Tryingmybest on February 07, 2013, 16:40
I sent mine. Not as eloquent as yours. Good one thanks!  8)

Here's the e-mail I just sent:

Mr. Pfeifer,

I'm not sure what you're thinking in implementing the schedule of contributor compensation outlined in your e-mail earlier today.

You must be aware of the low-earning status BigStock has for most contributors . Bottom-tier sites get supplied by contributors - in spite of their low earnings - as long as they meet several criteria. One is ease of upload; two is that they don't undercut a higher-earning site; and three is that they have decent royalty rates and a low payout threshold.

In the past, Big Stock has just about met all three of those (I have been with BigStock since 2005, with a hiatus from 2008-11 as an iStock exclusive and a new account when I returned in 2011). Your e-mail this morning has shot two of those three criteria in the head and the uploads are only OK - nothing like the easiest out there.

With the low earnings, it makes it very easy for contributors to walk away from BigStock, and with a recent rash of bad behavior by agencies, existing contributors are significantly on edge. Realistically, 50,000 downloads a year - even subscription downloads - isn't something that most of your contributors will ever reach. Many never will on Shutterstock, where the volume of business is much, much larger. And for heaven's sake don't even consider making some argument that you'll double, triple (or whatever) sales at BigStock in the next year or two. Not realistic.

Perhaps you aren't concerned about losing existing contributors and feel that there is an endless supply of willing participants with a nice point and shoot who'll supply you with content when the current crop of malcontents leaves. If that's the case, you're certainly making sure we head quickly for the exit.

If you have any concern about keeping your existing contributors, I strongly urge you to promptly reconsider this move. It is strongly reminiscent of the moves airlines made a few years ago for a two-tier pay system for pilots - one for the regional jets and one for the long-haul ones. From that, they tried to move jets classified as "regional" to the longer routes and move the pay scale with it. The real worry here isn't BigStock, but that you're looking to try this compensation scheme out and then move it to Shutterstock.

In the IPO documents, amid all the flowery words about a virtuous cycle, was a note of risks for the business. One was that contributors would no longer want to continue supplying you with content. You have the storefront but contributors own the content. Do you really want to start alienating your contributors when in general you are one of the respected agencies? Why just throw away all that goodwill you've spent so long building?

regards,

Jo Ann Snover (jsnover on both sites and contributor 249 at Shuttersock)
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 07, 2013, 16:45
Here's the e-mail I just sent:

Mr. Pfeifer,

I'm not sure what you're thinking in implementing the schedule of contributor compensation outlined in your e-mail earlier today.

You must be aware of the low-earning status BigStock has for most contributors . Bottom-tier sites get supplied by contributors - in spite of their low earnings - as long as they meet several criteria. One is ease of upload; two is that they don't undercut a higher-earning site; and three is that they have decent royalty rates and a low payout threshold.

In the past, Big Stock has just about met all three of those (I have been with BigStock since 2005, with a hiatus from 2008-11 as an iStock exclusive and a new account when I returned in 2011). Your e-mail this morning has shot two of those three criteria in the head and the uploads are only OK - nothing like the easiest out there.

With the low earnings, it makes it very easy for contributors to walk away from BigStock, and with a recent rash of bad behavior by agencies, existing contributors are significantly on edge. Realistically, 50,000 downloads a year - even subscription downloads - isn't something that most of your contributors will ever reach. Many never will on Shutterstock, where the volume of business is much, much larger. And for heaven's sake don't even consider making some argument that you'll double, triple (or whatever) sales at BigStock in the next year or two. Not realistic.

Perhaps you aren't concerned about losing existing contributors and feel that there is an endless supply of willing participants with a nice point and shoot who'll supply you with content when the current crop of malcontents leaves. If that's the case, you're certainly making sure we head quickly for the exit.

If you have any concern about keeping your existing contributors, I strongly urge you to promptly reconsider this move. It is strongly reminiscent of the moves airlines made a few years ago for a two-tier pay system for pilots - one for the regional jets and one for the long-haul ones. From that, they tried to move jets classified as "regional" to the longer routes and move the pay scale with it. The real worry here isn't BigStock, but that you're looking to try this compensation scheme out and then move it to Shutterstock.

In the IPO documents, amid all the flowery words about a virtuous cycle, was a note of risks for the business. One was that contributors would no longer want to continue supplying you with content. You have the storefront but contributors own the content. Do you really want to start alienating your contributors when in general you are one of the respected agencies? Why just throw away all that goodwill you've spent so long building?

regards,

Jo Ann Snover (jsnover on both sites and contributor 249 at Shuttersock)

Good reply. Mine wasn't..as nice as yours :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 07, 2013, 17:01
The site still show the old stuff.

http://help.bigstockphoto.com/entries/20876992-how-much-will-i-earn-as-a-bigstock-contributor (http://help.bigstockphoto.com/entries/20876992-how-much-will-i-earn-as-a-bigstock-contributor)

I never understand why that is the last thing to be amended. Its nothing short of a scam. You update your site's terms as soon as you change them.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mantis on February 07, 2013, 17:09
So all my pics at SS you can down download cheaper at BS? Given the volume of contributors contributing to both agencies, as a buyer I might ditch SS for a cheaper deal at BS.

It's not like SS and BS have totally different sets of customers. Doesn't seem to bode well for the future..

This is the real strategy. You nailed it. It is to drive subs sales to BS as a cost cutting strategy.  Paying out .29 cent SUBS vs. .38 cent subs times tens of thousands per year can add up to a bundle. The only trick is to drive buyers to BS (for now, anyway).  A complete migration of the two systems would mean that they'd apply BS subs pricing as their blanket and kill SS subs.  Migrating the two sites means (for the most part) keeping their existing buyers, reducing sub payouts.  I bet this is where they're going, otherwise why offer cheaper subs on the site they own? There is a method to this madness.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 07, 2013, 17:10
I know I am nowhere near the 50k downloads/year needed to get the .38 at Bigstock.  As JoAnn so eloquently points out, the volumes at BigStock just don't support those kinds of numbers. 

However, given the abundant downloads most of us get at SS, I thought it was worth checking my 2012 download totals to see if I get that much at SS.  Imagine my surprise to discover that I don't even get that many DL's annually there!  Fell just short at around 47k. 

I'd be curious if there are many of us who would keep their .38 rate if this same scheme were implemented at SS. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 17:23
Just got this new info from Bigstock:

Quote
All Bridge contributors will start at $0.38, and are guaranteed to be locked at this rate for the first 6 months.

I'm not a Bridge contributor, I manually upload images to Bigstock, so I'm waiting to hear back on what that means for me.

But if you use the Bridge, you're locked in at $0.38 to start.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 17:28
...I'd be curious if there are many of us who would keep their .38 rate if this same scheme were implemented at SS.

There's Yuri and then there's... ?

Your total's great Lisa - talent, hard work and all that - but you know that you're not by any means a typical contributor! I'm guessing not even typical for those of us earning the 38 cent subs royalty. So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

Remember all Veer's big talk about their subscription program? I haven't seen more than a damp fizzle from their subs sales. The only one whose structure I liked was iStock's, but that just wasn't competitive (possibly just wasn't promoted) so the sales never really built up (even before they started sending all subs buyers to Thtinkstock)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 07, 2013, 17:30
6 months lol. Well, ok whatever so I leave in 6 month whatever that's funny!  BS is so finished lol 6 months...... :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 07, 2013, 17:37
Have they stated what the cost to the buyer is for their subs program?  They better not be undercutting SS or we will have to organize a riot.  Heck, we should organize one anyway!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 07, 2013, 17:38
So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

I absolutely agree.  And if it works for them on BS, I don't see why they wouldn't implement that or something similar on SS too.  And then there's the final nail in the coffin of micro, IMO. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 07, 2013, 17:39
Have they stated what the cost to the buyer is for their subs program?  They better not be undercutting SS or we will have to organize a riot.  Heck, we should organize one anyway!

Is BS even worth a riot? Leaving BS is so much easier :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 07, 2013, 17:43
Yes, it would be and I hope they come to realize that.  I've canned 2 agencies in 2 months.  This might make it 3. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: elvinstar on February 07, 2013, 17:48
The riot MIGHT help stop this from spreading to SS...
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: picture5469 on February 07, 2013, 18:08
The riot MIGHT help stop this from spreading to SS...

D Day 2?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 07, 2013, 18:12
This makes me feel sick.  I've had enough of microstock now.  I'll still work with Pond5 and GLStockImages but there's no future with the rest of the sites.  Working harder each year only to get more and more commission cuts doesn't appeal to me at all.  Hard to believe that Jon Oringer is going to copy the disastrous policy of cutting already low commissions but he owns BS and that's what they're doing.  So I can no longer think that SS is the one site that makes sticking with microstock an option.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 07, 2013, 18:16
So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

I absolutely agree.  And if it works for them on BS, I don't see why they wouldn't implement that or something similar on SS too.  And then there's the final nail in the coffin of micro, IMO.

Agree totally!  If that happens, I will stop producing any micro images.  Any new images will be RM and will be sold direct.  That seems to be what the agencies are daring us to do, anyway.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 07, 2013, 18:19
So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

I absolutely agree.  And if it works for them on BS, I don't see why they wouldn't implement that or something similar on SS too.  And then there's the final nail in the coffin of micro, IMO.

Agree totally!  If that happens, I will stop producing any micro images.  Any new images will be RM and will be sold direct.  That seems to be what the agencies are daring us to do, anyway.
Sums it up for me. Already submitting RM to Alamy and pulling all editorial from micros. If SS is announcing a cut, I am going Macro.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 07, 2013, 18:55
The sad part is that a few of us leaving won't even make them flinch. I wish Yuri would pull all of his portfolios (except for his own website of course), it would truly begin the downfall of these greedy microstock agencies.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Anita Potter on February 07, 2013, 18:57
How can you even tell how many downloads you get there over the past 12 months.  I'm not going to take the money and get an average.

I'll probably be on the lower tier anyway.

Image statistics, choose a custom time frame of the past 12 months using the calendar in the right top corner.

Thanks.  Looks like I've only had 51 in the last year.  So I was right lowest tier for me.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cathyslife on February 07, 2013, 19:18
So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

I absolutely agree.  And if it works for them on BS, I don't see why they wouldn't implement that or something similar on SS too.  And then there's the final nail in the coffin of micro, IMO.

I don't think it's the final nail in the coffin for micro. There is still a huge market for inexpensive stock images. Someone will fill that need and will be happy to take whatever the agencies give out. Instead, I see this as the final nail in the coffin for all the photographers who have invested money in good equipment, have been turning out great images the past few years, but will no longer be able to afford to produce for such pittances. That is really a shame.  :(

It reminds of when my good friend, who had been a teacher for 25+ years and made about $70,000 a year, was offered a buyout to retire early. The schools needed to move out the good teachers who were at high pay levels, and move in young teachers who were happy to just have a job and were willing to take $32,000 a year. Same principle. Those of us who have been around for a few years have outlived our usefulness. The cycle will start all over.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 19:35

I don't think it's the final nail in the coffin for micro. There is still a huge market for inexpensive stock images. Someone will fill that need and will be happy to take whatever the agencies give out. Instead, I see this as the final nail in the coffin for all the photographers who have invested money in good equipment, have been turning out great images the past few years, but will no longer be able to afford to produce for such pittances. That is really a shame.  :(

It reminds of when my good friend, who had been a teacher for 25+ years and made about $70,000 a year, was offered a buyout to retire early. The schools needed to move out the good teachers who were at high pay levels, and move in young teachers who were happy to just have a job and were willing to take $32,000 a year. Same principle. Those of us who have been around for a few years have outlived our usefulness. The cycle will start all over.

I can understand when a business is struggling to stay afloat and they ask employees or suppliers to make cuts. And sometimes school systems - which aren't businesses in that they don't control their income, only their expenses - have to try and cut where they can.

What I find harder to swallow is a profitable business that "needs" to be even more profitable. Instead of growing the business by increasing sales, they decide to grow it by cutting into supplier royalties. I can't think of any way to describe it other than naked greed.

It really does feel a bit like all those cliched stories where the first wife puts the guy through medical school while she works and then he dumps her for a younger model once he's graduated and is earning a good salary.

"It's just business" only goes so far to wash the unpleasant taste out of my mouth
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 07, 2013, 19:42
I just received a reply from BigStock:

" Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed. "


Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mantis on February 07, 2013, 19:45
I just received a reply from BigStock:

" Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed. "


Well, this is the same ol crappy answer all the sites give..."well we are trying to make you more money, that's why we made this stupid move".

Amazing!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: luissantos84 on February 07, 2013, 19:46
I just received a reply from BigStock:

" Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed. "


now I am relieved ;D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 07, 2013, 20:21
So what it amounts to is a pay cut for any subscription sales that migrate from SS to BS.

I absolutely agree.  And if it works for them on BS, I don't see why they wouldn't implement that or something similar on SS too.  And then there's the final nail in the coffin of micro, IMO.

I don't think it's the final nail in the coffin for micro. There is still a huge market for inexpensive stock images. Someone will fill that need and will be happy to take whatever the agencies give out. Instead, I see this as the final nail in the coffin for all the photographers who have invested money in good equipment, have been turning out great images the past few years, but will no longer be able to afford to produce for such pittances. That is really a shame.  :(


Cathy, you and I are saying the same thing.  I didn't specify "final nail in the coffin for skilled microstock suppliers" because I thought it was obvious what I meant.  Clearly "microstock" agencies will do just fine, at least in the short term. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: michaeldb on February 07, 2013, 20:28
I for one would not compare this to the Getty/IS/Google atrocities.

"For the next six months, we’ll guarantee that every subscription download you receive will generate a royalty of $0.38USD – our maximum rate. These terms are being offered to contributors in the Bridge to Bigstock program only."

Unless I'm missing something, it's the same as I get at SS. And even if I am subject to the new payment schedule soon or someday, I will be getting .31 per subscription dl. Less than I get at DT, but more than I get a most sites. It's a bad trend that microstock sites are paying us less and less as they earn more and more, and Google attempting to destroy the value of our copyrights is scary, but it may not be the end of the world quite yet. I hope.  :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 20:34
So you're part of the Bridge to Bigstock - I'm not. However, if they're using this to migrate subscription sales from SS to BigStock, you'll be effectively getting a cut on every download that comes form BigStock vs. SS

Can you opt out of Bridge to Bigstock if you want to stay on SS but no longer have your files on BigStock?

Although there were brief signs of life in the fall, BigStock has been largely moribund since I returned in late 2011 - much lower sales than I saw before (2005-8). So their sales are crappy which leaves me with a lousy royalty rate - I think it'll be 27 cents. Unless the volume is through the roof AND SS sales stay up (at 38 cents), I'm going to leave BigStock and be thankful I was never invited to the Bridge program :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 07, 2013, 20:36
I just received a reply from BigStock:

" Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed. "


What a ridiculous reply. Where do they think these buyers are going to come from? Do they think we are incapable of working out the answer to that?
I will definitely pull my port from BS.
The greater the number of people who quit, the less likely they are to follow through at SS, so yes, I think it's time for D-Day 2.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 20:57
What about the timing of any future action?

Seems to me that it should be in a month or two - after the change is implemented. Unlike with the Google/Getty giveaway, we have no huge risk of one of our images getting caught in the giveaway where there is nothing we can later do to retrieve it.

If the subs on BigStock fail completely but credit sales continue, then we just let them bump along the bottom as before.

If the subs on BigStock take off like a rocket and SS subs sales drop by seemingly comparable amounts, then we at most loose a month or two of the difference in royalty by waiting.

How about the ides of March (March 15th)?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 07, 2013, 21:10
So you're part of the Bridge to Bigstock - I'm not...

Same here. I think we're going to get extra screwed on this. Probably make us start out at the lowest rate.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 07, 2013, 21:34
What about the timing of any future action?

Seems to me that it should be in a month or two - after the change is implemented. Unlike with the Google/Getty giveaway, we have no huge risk of one of our images getting caught in the giveaway where there is nothing we can later do to retrieve it.

If the subs on BigStock fail completely but credit sales continue, then we just let them bump along the bottom as before.

If the subs on BigStock take off like a rocket and SS subs sales drop by seemingly comparable amounts, then we at most loose a month or two of the difference in royalty by waiting.

How about the ides of March (March 15th)?

Sounds like a plan. I actually wrote out our quit email earlier, but decided to think before I act, so haven't yet sent it.

I like the idea of the Ides of March, very symbolic!

We have already quit Deposit and 123, adding BS to the list won't much matter.

Don't do this to us, SS!

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 07, 2013, 21:40
...I like the idea of the Ides of March, very symbolic!
...

And then there's the quote (with apologies to Caesar and Brutus):

Et tu Sutterstock?
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 07, 2013, 22:02
Look at recent happenings at FT, IS, SS, and now BS. Nobody gets 50,000 downloads/year at Bigstock.

There is no future in microstock. Pulling my portfolios today.


Easy enough if Lisa doesn't make the top tier I'd doubt that many do except the agencies with 50,000 collection, bridge people. Maybe Yuri will weigh in with his value of this new development.

In case you wanted the Senior Version and missed the email for some reason. (like not being a BS member?)

(http://s5.postimage.org/hr8tuvuxz/bigstock_rc_levels.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Bigstock goes RC (http://postimage.org/)

I have to laugh. I kept BS because of hope for growth, since SS owns them. Instead I just get the feeling that "Another One Bites The Dust"

They just made it easier for many people to drop them? Very odd.
Title: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: jcpjr on February 07, 2013, 23:25
I won't shoot myself in the foot to quickly. Being an optimism, I'll play the "wait and see" game like many will do. If it doesn't work to my satisfaction then I'll pull the plug.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dirkr on February 08, 2013, 03:13
There would be a very easy way to address most concerns: Pay everybody the same rate they receive on SS (and if they want, keep the RC system for those that do not have a SS account).
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: fotografer on February 08, 2013, 03:57
There would be a very easy way to address most concerns: Pay everybody the same rate they receive on SS (and if they want, keep the RC system for those that do not have a SS account).
A big plus one to that.  I have been 38c at SS since they first brought the system in but I won't quite make the 31c mark at BS. I guess once the 6 months is up with all the extra subs I will reach 31c but that is still a loss of 7 c per dl !!!!!!!  Not at all happy!!!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 08, 2013, 04:16
I know I am nowhere near the 50k downloads/year needed to get the .38 at Bigstock.  As JoAnn so eloquently points out, the volumes at BigStock just don't support those kinds of numbers. 

However, given the abundant downloads most of us get at SS, I thought it was worth checking my 2012 download totals to see if I get that much at SS.  Imagine my surprise to discover that I don't even get that many DL's annually there!  Fell just short at around 47k. 

I'd be curious if there are many of us who would keep their .38 rate if this same scheme were implemented at SS.

I clear the 50000 on SS, but only just. The idea that BS will ever provide an equivalent number of downloads is unthinkable.
Title: Re: e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 08, 2013, 04:29
Those milestones seem impossible to hit. 50k would be hard to do even at SS, and they're the volume leader in this business. At Bigstock? It's impossible.

If a stupid idea like this ever migrates over to SS, the milestones will be equally outrageous, probably just multiplied to compensate for the higher volume SS does. And if that happens, I'm probably out of business.

That's why you experiment with it first in your laboratory at Bigstock before you move it to your cash cow.

My fear precisely. I get 38c there for six months after which they will either be making me about twice as much money as SS or else they will cut my commission levels to sod all, at which point there is an extremely strong probability that I will close my account there. The one thing that might keep me is if their subscriptions flop entirely so that they just drift along continuing to  be useless as what they are already useless at.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 08, 2013, 04:32
They had a great opportunity with Bigstock to experiment with a higher priced collection, to differentiate it from SS.  They could of tried image exclusivity, something many of us would try with a site backed by SS.

Instead of that, they've taken the easy option the other sites have.  Low commission subs.  It's hard to express how disappointing this is.  So the big 4 have now all shown that they can't make enough profit without taking more and more from us.  That's unsustainable for me.

There might still be a future for me in microstock, there's Stocksy and the two people working on a way for us to sell direct.  I'd love to see some of the sites that pay 50% commission doing well but there aren't enough buyers using them.

I don't think I'll take part in any other contributor action against the sites.  If buyers wont move to sites that pay us a decent commission, what's the point?  The site most of them have moved to is SS and now it looks like they're going to be as bad as all the other big sites.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Maui on February 08, 2013, 04:57
Ok, given the negligible revenue I get from them, I will pull my portfolio next week.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: incarno on February 08, 2013, 06:00
Leaving Bigstock is easy they are already my worst performing site. So Good-bye Bigstock!
But it's obvious that these RC-Targets will be implemented at SS which will lead to an commission-cut for me and many others.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mantis on February 08, 2013, 06:52
Leaving Bigstock is easy they are already my worst performing site. So Good-bye Bigstock!
But it's obvious that these RC-Targets will be implemented at SS which will lead to an commission-cut for me and many others.

That's what I believe.  This is only phase one. What I don't get is why would Oringer try to entice exclusives to bring their port over to SS then fk them with a royalty cut when BS & SS merge? Again, I make this assumption about merging because why on earth would SS have a different sub payout plan than BigStock? There MUST be a phase two in the works.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 08, 2013, 07:13
I definitely think what we have sen at BS is just a preview of a new plan for SS. Even the targets make sense for SS but are batsh*t crazy levels for BS.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 08, 2013, 07:27
Leaving Bigstock is easy they are already my worst performing site. So Good-bye Bigstock!
But it's obvious that these RC-Targets will be implemented at SS which will lead to an commission-cut for me and many others.

That's what I believe.  This is only phase one. What I don't get is why would Oringer try to entice exclusives to bring their port over to SS then fk them with a royalty cut when BS & SS merge? Again, I make this assumption about merging because why on earth would SS have a different sub payout plan than BigStock? There MUST be a phase two in the works.

+1
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 08, 2013, 07:46
Leaving Bigstock is easy they are already my worst performing site. So Good-bye Bigstock!
But it's obvious that these RC-Targets will be implemented at SS which will lead to an commission-cut for me and many others.

That's what I believe.  This is only phase one. What I don't get is why would Oringer try to entice exclusives to bring their port over to SS then fk them with a royalty cut when BS & SS merge? Again, I make this assumption about merging because why on earth would SS have a different sub payout plan than BigStock? There MUST be a phase two in the works.

Because once they've shifted over it will cause them problems to shift back, and it all helps to destabilise the opposition. Remember when iS tried to lure people to become exclusive and then did a shafting job just as the DT six months lock-in was ending?  DT lost out at that time regardless of how it turned out and it didn't do any harm to iS.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 08, 2013, 07:56
I'm guessing there won't be any more threads complaining about no raise at SS for the past 5 years.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: picture5469 on February 08, 2013, 08:14
This change was to test the water as to speak. They want to cut commissions and this is just the start, SS will be next!

I still have photos to process but after that I'm out. Not producing any more as too many sites are cutting commissions.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 08, 2013, 08:27
I don't mind RC targets in principle, but they need to do the sums, make the tiers more achievable and have one or more levels higher than the maximum current commission. That is the only way to keep people motivated.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 08, 2013, 08:36
I still can't quite believe that they've set those crazy targets.  After years of making what seemed like well thought out decisions, they come up with this.  It shatters the illusion that they care more about their contributors than the other big sites.  This is even worse than what 123RF did and look at the reaction to that.

I'm sure doing this will lose them money.  Lots of people will leave BS and more of us will stop producing new images for microstock, as it just isn't worth it anymore.  It will make people more determined to find better ways to sell their images.

I hope they don't try the old trick of adjusting theses levels to something more reasonable.  Seen that one used far too often now.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: luissantos84 on February 08, 2013, 08:43
I still can't quite believe that they've set those crazy targets.  After years of making what seemed like well thought out decisions, they come up with this.  It shatters the illusion that they care more about their contributors than the other big sites.  This is even worse than what 123RF did and look at the reaction to that.

I'm sure doing this will lose them money.  Lots of people will leave BS and more of us will stop producing new images for microstock, as it just isn't worth it anymore.  It will make people more determined to find better ways to sell their images.

I hope they don't try the old trick of adjusting theses levels to something more reasonable.  Seen that one used far too often now.

spot on! not to mention we are talking about a low earner, looking at my totals they represent 2.5% of SS (40 times less)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dbvirago on February 08, 2013, 09:10
They forgot to mention when they announced the bridge to Bigstock that as soon as you crossed it they were going to burn it down.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Dark_Angel on February 08, 2013, 09:29


Same here. I think we're going to get extra screwed on this. Probably make us start out at the lowest rate.

Well I am a bridger and while I get the 38cents rate on SS I will be level 1 and get only 25 cents on BS. Don't see why i should keep my portfolio on BS.

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 08, 2013, 09:37
Those levels are so ridiculous that they would only make any sense at all if they were the rates for SS itself, not BS. Even on SS which sells vastly more than BS I would drop a couple of levels if they brought that in, but on BS I wouldn't even make level 3.

Which makes me fear that suggestions of a full BS+SS merger are in the pipeline and this rate will be applied to the joint agency (and, of course, it won't matter if you have left BS if they manage to migrate the buyers to SS, along with the payment scheme, the way iS tried to migrate the StockXpert buyers.)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: luissantos84 on February 08, 2013, 09:58
SS
- 10k $ to reach the 38 cents (even at 38 cents RPD which nobody has, the 10k $ / 38 cents = 26316 downloads)

BigStock
- 50k downloads in the latest 12 months to get the same 38 cents
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 08, 2013, 11:04
...Which makes me fear that suggestions of a full BS+SS merger are in the pipeline and this rate will be applied to the joint agency...

This rate schedule makes that idea look very plausible. 50k at Bigstock is bonkers. But at SS it's do-able. Not easy, but it can be done. And the schedule makes more sense if you look at it as being applied to SS instead of Bigstock. So yeah, maybe these numbers were decided upon with some future merger in mind.

Scary stuff.

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 08, 2013, 11:23
Currently are only rumors and conjecture ( with high percentage the RC system will be implemented on SS).... If SS will implement the BS like system than our only chance ( to make a fair income from microstock) will be that Yuri opens Peopleimages.com to the general public. If this will happen I believe we will see another leader in the forum Top Tier - Big 4 section in max. 2 years.

I'm sure nobody from the BS/SS management has thought about this possibility.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 08, 2013, 11:35
Currently are only rumors and conjecture ( with high percentage the RC system will be implemented on SS).... If SS will implement the BS like system than our only chance will be that Yuri opens Peopleimages.com to the general public. If this will happen I believe we will see another leader in the forum Top Tier - Big 4 section in max. 2 years.

There are several other options. Look around!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 08, 2013, 11:41
Currently are only rumors and conjecture ( with high percentage the RC system will be implemented on SS).... If SS will implement the BS like system than our only chance will be that Yuri opens Peopleimages.com to the general public. If this will happen I believe we will see another leader in the forum Top Tier - Big 4 section in max. 2 years.

There are several other options. Look around!

Regarding microstock?? i don't see nothing coming close to SS this days.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cidepix on February 08, 2013, 11:47
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 08, 2013, 12:08
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

That was my thought. I have that and a couple fair partners. I switched to just uploading to those sites and nobody else two years ago. I also made a concerted effort to double my portfolio, so those sites had the best selection of my work.

It's not a bulletproof strategy, but it feels a lot more stable. Honestly, I could probably close my account at SS tomorrow and still pay the bills. It wouldn't be ideal, but there is some comfort in knowing it is possible.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 12:52
I received a reply from BigStock just now - not from Mr. Pfeifer but from an account executive. Not a great start to pass off your brush-off letter to an underling (and I'm sure the account executive is a wonderful person; it's the tone of the response being set by whether you get it from the person you wrote to vs the janitor's second helper)

"Thank you for your email and feedback.

I absolutely understand your concerns. But please keep in mind that with the launch of subscriptions next week we will be adding an additional way to download images. That means, you will continue to receive between $0.50 and $3.00 per image for credit image sales, 30% of partner sales as well as up to $29.70 for Extended License sales. We will continue to keep the Bigstock and Shutterstock website separate targeting different types of customers.
Please be assured that we will closely monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties and will keep in touch with our colleagues at Shutterstock. Additionally and as we have in the past, we will keep all of our contributors informed and communicate all and any changes to you.
All of us at Bigstock are very passionate about the company and want our products to be successful and with the help of contributors like you we are sure that we can accomplish that.

We look forward to continuing to work with you and should you have any questions or concerns in the future please reach out at any time!

Warm regards,"

Blah, blah - new business - blah blah - big EL number (I don't think I've ever had one at BigStock) - blah blah - passionate - blah blah - let's tackle this together! - blah blah

Not doing for me. I'm not getting any specific answers to the real concerns and a continuation of this crap about "it's just incremental revenue"

I'll touch my forelock now, thank the govna for the crumbs and go back to my hovel :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 08, 2013, 13:26
But if its a new revenue stream isnt that a good thing? Or are you concerned it will replace credit sales ?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sc on February 08, 2013, 13:42
I received a reply from BigStock just now - not from Mr. Pfeifer but from an account executive. Not a great start to pass off your brush-off letter to an underling (and I'm sure the account executive is a wonderful person; it's the tone of the response being set by whether you get it from the person you wrote to vs the janitor's second helper)

"Thank you for your email and feedback.

I absolutely understand your concerns. But please keep in mind that with the launch of subscriptions next week we will be adding an additional way to download images. That means, you will continue to receive between $0.50 and $3.00 per image for credit image sales, 30% of partner sales as well as up to $29.70 for Extended License sales. We will continue to keep the Bigstock and Shutterstock website separate targeting different types of customers.
Please be assured that we will closely monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties and will keep in touch with our colleagues at Shutterstock. Additionally and as we have in the past, we will keep all of our contributors informed and communicate all and any changes to you.
All of us at Bigstock are very passionate about the company and want our products to be successful and with the help of contributors like you we are sure that we can accomplish that.

We look forward to continuing to work with you and should you have any questions or concerns in the future please reach out at any time!

Warm regards,"

Blah, blah - new business - blah blah - big EL number (I don't think I've ever had one at BigStock) - blah blah - passionate - blah blah - let's tackle this together! - blah blah

Not doing for me. I'm not getting any specific answers to the real concerns and a continuation of this crap about "it's just incremental revenue"

I'll touch my forelock now, thank the govna for the crumbs and go back to my hovel :)

That is almost verbatim the same e-mail I got in reply to my questions / concerns.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 13:51
But if its a new revenue stream isnt that a good thing? Or are you concerned it will replace credit sales ?

I don't believe it for a nanosecond. They're not growing the market in any way I can see which means they're stealing business from existing segments of it.

We heard from iStock (with the introduction of their own subs scheme and then with the Partner program), Dreamstime, Veer, CanStock, Fotolia: subscriptions are a new source of revenue and that they won't eat into credit sales.

Horsepuckey!

Am I hearing how they're going out to find a pool of buyers that hasn't yet been tapped and marketing some new package or product - or even a variant of subscriptions - to them? Not a word.

Right now they're all just jockeying for position in divvying up the existing pie. I don't think the market is saturated, but what we're seeing is agencies either who see things differently, or who are just lazy and trying to make easy money (easier to steal customers from another site than develop new business), or don't have the skills or cash to develop new markets.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 13:53
...That is almost verbatim the same e-mail I got in reply to my questions / concerns.

At least they're not wasting time and money writing individual responses - quick cut and paste will do fine for these peons.

Gotta love it :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 08, 2013, 14:04
...That is almost verbatim the same e-mail I got in reply to my questions / concerns.

At least they're not wasting time and money writing individual responses - quick cut and paste will do fine for these peons.

Gotta love it :)

There seems to be a bit of irony in Bigstock thinking we are peons (if they think that). I thought about writing something to them too, then I said... Oh wait, it's Bigstock. I don't really give a...  ;D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: suemack on February 08, 2013, 14:05
I've just sent my email in asking if there is an 'Opt out' button for subs and stating why I am not able to work with them if one isn't there.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 14:11
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

I must be having a very negative day, but my first thought was "If Google derived traffic is any part of your plan to get buyers to your own site, have you read the threads about traffic falling off a cliff as a result of the image search changes?"

WarmPicture and GL Leftovers have both mentioned how traffic has dropped drastically as a result of Google's recent changes. I don't know if you're seeing it too, but that's the element of risk for collectives/own sites.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 08, 2013, 14:33
I'm guessing there won't be any more threads complaining about no raise at SS for the past 5 years.

If there were more threads demanding fair treatment or the door, we would not have to deal with this.  That is exactly why I wrote the thread, I had a gut feeling this was coming.

Instead we wrap our tail between our legs and accept the unacceptable!

I will ask you a question, if we don't ask for our fair share ourselves who will? 

Jon, SS, it's investors and employees are doing well, it is about time we put a fork in the spreading/rampant greed.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 08, 2013, 14:34


 
[b]Please be assured that we will closely monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties and will keep in touch with our colleagues at Shutterstock. [/b]

This is the phrase that worries me...  :o :-\ :-\ :-\ If they declares that the two sites ( SS and BS ) are two different agencies aimed to different clients.. why they will keep in touch with their ''colleagues at Shutterstock''.

Get ready for Phase 2  >:(

A Deactivation Day on BS is urgently required.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: picture5469 on February 08, 2013, 14:43
Has anyone asked BS for the total downloads from their site? Is that in itself 50000?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 15:08
I sent back a reply to the Account Executive:

"M. xxx,

I appreciate you sending a response but it didn't really address any of the issues or concerns I raised. You restated a view of what you're planning to do next week that can most charitably be described as optimistic.

I would like to see an opt out button for contributors who do not wish their images to be offered in BigStock subscriptions. If you can sell us all on why BigStock subscriptions are great, we'll opt in. Otherwise it seems it probably isn't a good idea anyway.

If you wanted to launch something new with full contributor support, you could have considered something like 6 months, or through the end of 2013, of 38 cents for each subscription download with a realistic table of earned downloads to follow after that. And allow an opt out. In this way you'd have to put something on the table to try and build success at a web site that has never been one in terms of sales volume. If the sales volume builds, you'll have no trouble getting contributors to opt in.

If these low-ball royalties are the best you think you can do, at least an opt-out would allow me to continue at BigStock instead of leaving. I'm willing to take the minuscule risk that I miss out on wonderful new sales opportunities with BigStock subscriptions so that I avoid undercutting my royalties at just about every other subscription site.

regards,

Jo Ann"
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 08, 2013, 15:40
How depressing that they come out with the same sorry story we've heard so many times before. Any incremental value in this will only benefit SS/BS.
I think I feel more depressed about the insulting way they spin this to us than I do about the actual fact of yet another company reducing commissions.
I can quit BS, but I still resent being taken for a fool.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 08, 2013, 15:40
You know, I really wouldn't have a problem with subs at all if they were fair for everyone involved.  I will never in my lifetime agree that a super extra large vector/photograph/template  should be included in a subscription equalling one credit or download.   I have no issue receiving a quarter for a xs/sm and maybe even a m download but it is simply riddiculous that we are giving soooo much away for so little. 

Shouldn't a subscription scheme be more of a marketing tool to bring the buyers to your site and collect great images for their magazines and brochures yet when they need a poster/billboard they will stay to purchase larger more useful files (at a price that is still incredibly reasonable if you ask me!)?   Or if the sub small-buy regular theory doesn't fly, why not charge more than one of their daily downloads for higher resolution files?  Seriously - what MBA thought up this great plan?

It was brought up before that when SS started their subs venture photographers only had 4 or 6 mpx cameras and yet today we are giving away 21 mpx photos today for what - 13 cents more per download?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 08, 2013, 15:50
You know, I really wouldn't have a problem with subs at all if they were fair for everyone involved.  I will never in my lifetime agree that a super extra large vector/photograph/template  should be included in a subscription equalling one credit or download.   I have no issue receiving a quarter for a xs/sm and maybe even a m download but it is simply riddiculous that we are giving soooo much away for so little. 

Shouldn't a subscription scheme be more of a marketing tool to bring the buyers to your site and collect great images for their magazines and brochures yet when they need a poster/billboard they will stay to purchase larger more useful files (at a price that is still incredibly reasonable if you ask me!)?   Or if the sub small-buy regular theory doesn't fly, why not charge more than one of their daily downloads for higher resolution files?  Seriously - what MBA thought up this great plan?

It was brought up before that when SS started their subs venture photographers only had 4 or 6 mpx cameras and yet today we are giving away 21 mpx photos today for what - 13 cents more per download?

Exactly. Having been exclusive for several years at IS, it's obvious that these companies are leaving so much money on the table.
Instead, they scrabble around on the floor, trying to grab market share from one another, and we suffer the consequences in reduced earnings.
Of course we are to blame too, by uploading to the cheap cheap sites when they open their doors.
It's a pity IS has gone the way it has, we were very happy there for a long time. But it is what it is.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 08, 2013, 15:59
And a prompt - if content free - reply from the account executive:

"We really appreciate the feedback. Please know that our goal is to create a royalty model that is fair and competitive.

Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you.

Best,"

...our goal is to create something fair and competitive, so the fact that we've come up with something wildly one-sided and stingy is just collateral damage...

And as far as what they can do for me, how about find a boat load of eager buyers for BigStock images and give me an effing opt out button for subscriptions!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: hotwalkn on February 08, 2013, 16:43
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 08, 2013, 17:40
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

I must be having a very negative day, but my first thought was "If Google derived traffic is any part of your plan to get buyers to your own site, have you read the threads about traffic falling off a cliff as a result of the image search changes?"

WarmPicture and GL Leftovers have both mentioned how traffic has dropped drastically as a result of Google's recent changes. I don't know if you're seeing it too, but that's the element of risk for collectives/own sites.

You would think that the agencies would make a collective effort to stop Google's actions.  I guess it's easier just to make additional cuts to contributors.  Guess I'm having a negative day, too. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 08, 2013, 17:48
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?
I don't think so.  They read the forums here and have seen how angry we get with sites that have set their RC levels too high.  I think they're trying the old trick of setting these crazy levels and then they'll adjust them down a bit, to make it look like they've listened to us.  Are we going to fall for that one again?  Probably :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cidepix on February 08, 2013, 17:56
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

I must be having a very negative day, but my first thought was "If Google derived traffic is any part of your plan to get buyers to your own site, have you read the threads about traffic falling off a cliff as a result of the image search changes?"

WarmPicture and GL Leftovers have both mentioned how traffic has dropped drastically as a result of Google's recent changes. I don't know if you're seeing it too, but that's the element of risk for collectives/own sites.

I will try to adapt.. it may be hard, but I am trying to learn more and more everyday.. hopefully I will succeed.. will have to wait and see..
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: picture5469 on February 08, 2013, 18:53
Has anyone asked BS for the total downloads from their site? Is that in itself 50000?

I had to ask BS this question and they said they can't make that information publicly available. I'm going to draw the conclusion from that they don't get 50000 downloads on the site in total. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: mike123 on February 08, 2013, 19:04
I asked them if I would leave immediately, would they pay me my 12$ earnings or if I'd have to wait until my earnings reach 30$ to get my money and close my account. This is the answer I got:

Quote
Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

We cannot issue payouts beneath $30, if you close your account now you would be forfeiting those earnings.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Kindest regards..

So now I have to wait for another year or so to collect the remaining 18$, then I can leave BS. But stopped uploading immediately  8)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: klsbear on February 08, 2013, 19:29
I wonder what they plan to charge for their sub plan and if it will be same or substantially diffeent than SS's plan.  Here's the e-mail I sent in response to the announcement on the changes.

Quote
What the cost will be on the subscription plans?  Will you be undercutting the buyer's cost to purchase a similar subscription plan at Shutterstock?  If the subscription plans are higher cost for smaller subscriptions or offer substantially different options (ie: small and medium size only for subs) it would be more palatable than if you are offering same or similar to SS but paying us less.  As others have said, the higher tiers are a pie-in-the-sky dream given the traffic and industry trends right now.  I would like to see the cost on the subsciption plans before it's implemented so I can make some decisions.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 08, 2013, 23:22
I believe, as a lot of you do, that this is just a prelude to Shutterstock adopting the same payment structure.  Otherwise, why even bother with Bigstock?  It's a low earner site, pretty much irrelevant.  It's just a testing ground for Shutterstock.  If they do go that route, the psychological impact alone will have a huge impact on contributors.  Shutterstock has been the only reliable, fair, and top earning site we have.  If they go down that dark hole, then so does the industry as we know it.  In a strange way, all of the negativity surrounding the industry today might be a good thing for contributors.  The possibility that soon every agency may be screwing us over, combined with the positive developmental  projects by Bruce, KonaHawaii, and Justin Brinson at Picturengine may actually be the turning point that we need.  "It's always darkest before the dawn."
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: ruzgar344 on February 09, 2013, 00:18
Bigstock is the site that I have started 10 days ago.
I saw the topic and also read the email came 2 days ago. Besides this, file review periods is a huge waste of time which I have never faced in istockphoto or depositphotos, I have sent them an email for deleting the pending files and closing my account. They have confirmed and now I cut my relations with BigStock.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 09, 2013, 03:18
It's time to react  >:(

let's set a Deactivation date on BigStock

On IS didn't make a big impact but i believe on such a low earner like BS will do. Maybe will make them think about.

The big majority of us can live without the insignificant BS earnings.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 09, 2013, 03:59
.....On IS didn't make a big impact .....

I wouldn't say that. It added to the continued decline of IStock that has been ongoing over the last few yeas. They lost a lot of exclusives and a lot files (deactivated and also now never to be uploaded by people who have stopped uploading). They'll be losing traffic from ex-exclusive pointing their customers to new sites too.

Take another look at the Alexa ranking of IStock in a years time and you'll see that all these contributors' reactions are having a very big impact on IStock. It is dying as a crowd sourced micro site. They are having to move more and more Getty content in. In another couple of years they will have negated any reason they had for buying it in the first place.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: incarno on February 09, 2013, 04:21
They are very quick with account deactivation. They asked me for the reason in their deactivation email.  :)
I must say I'm relieved they are 1% of my microstock-earnings and have always been a pita with their seven word description requirement I won't  go back to them now even they would change their sub-system.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Phil on February 09, 2013, 04:46
Sold 802 images there last year so $0.27 - oh joy :( .As others have said, the number of new customers is nil so it will just cut customers from elsewhere. I want to send an email but have writers block I cant get past 'you suck'
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 09, 2013, 05:11
I believe, as a lot of you do, that this is just a prelude to Shutterstock adopting the same payment structure.  Otherwise, why even bother with Bigstock?  It's a low earner site, pretty much irrelevant.  It's just a testing ground for Shutterstock.  If they do go that route, the psychological impact alone will have a huge impact on contributors.  Shutterstock has been the only reliable, fair, and top earning site we have.  If they go down that dark hole, then so does the industry as we know it.  In a strange way, all of the negativity surrounding the industry today might be a good thing for contributors.  The possibility that soon every agency may be screwing us over, combined with the positive developmental  projects by Bruce, KonaHawaii, and Justin Brinson at Picturengine may actually be the turning point that we need.  "It's always darkest before the dawn."
I have serious doubts about Picturengine.  I signed up for the free trail, as the site was supposed to be launched very soon.  I changed my mind, as I didn't like the thought of that automatic PayPal fee going through.  Almost 3 months later, has anything happened?  Looks like the free trial was a complete waste of time.  Justin should of offered it after the search was fully functional, so we could get some idea if it was worth paying for.  I'm also concerned that if Picturengine was a success, how much is it going to cost us?  The pre-launch fees seem too high when the search isn't functional, what will they be when it's finally launched?  Then there's the problem when we were being told that Picturengine wasn't going to send buyers to the cheapest site but buyers were being told something different.  I would suggest that anyone who wants to use Picturengine should read through the threads about it here first.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 09, 2013, 05:45
I believe, as a lot of you do, that this is just a prelude to Shutterstock adopting the same payment structure.  Otherwise, why even bother with Bigstock?  It's a low earner site, pretty much irrelevant.  It's just a testing ground for Shutterstock.  If they do go that route, the psychological impact alone will have a huge impact on contributors.  Shutterstock has been the only reliable, fair, and top earning site we have.  If they go down that dark hole, then so does the industry as we know it.  In a strange way, all of the negativity surrounding the industry today might be a good thing for contributors.  The possibility that soon every agency may be screwing us over, combined with the positive developmental  projects by Bruce, KonaHawaii, and Justin Brinson at Picturengine may actually be the turning point that we need.  "It's always darkest before the dawn."
I have serious doubts about Picturengine.  I signed up for the free trail, as the site was supposed to be launched very soon.  I changed my mind, as I didn't like the thought of that automatic PayPal fee going through.  Almost 3 months later, has anything happened?  Looks like the free trial was a complete waste of time.  Justin should of offered it after the search was fully functional, so we could get some idea if it was worth paying for.  I'm also concerned that if Picturengine was a success, how much is it going to cost us?  The pre-launch fees seem too high when the search isn't functional, what will they be when it's finally launched?  Then there's the problem when we were being told that Picturengine wasn't going to send buyers to the cheapest site but buyers were being told something different.  I would suggest that anyone who wants to use Picturengine should read through the threads about it here first.

Well, it hasn't fully launched yet, but that doesn't mean that nothing's happening.  They continue to add new features and work out any bugs in the system.  Sure, I would like for it to have launched sooner, but I would rather they launched a good product later than a flawed one sooner.  My guess is that the cost at launch will remain the same.  Wouldn't make sense to increase the cost on an unproven site.  I'm glad I signed up, glad to have gotten the locked in price.  If it works out, great!  If not, then I'll move on.  I'll have a year after launch to make that determination.  I think it's worth the gamble, especially considering recent developments in the industry.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 09, 2013, 06:11
...My guess is that the cost at launch will remain the same.  Wouldn't make sense to increase the cost on an unproven site...
The sales pitch in previous threads was that the price was going up as soon as the search went live.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 09, 2013, 06:34
...My guess is that the cost at launch will remain the same.  Wouldn't make sense to increase the cost on an unproven site...
The sales pitch in previous threads was that the price was going up as soon as the search went live.

Was not able to find that in previous threads.  As far as I know, the sales pitch was that anyone who signed up during beta would be locked in at $40 a month.  I haven't seen anything about the price going up at launch.  Maybe I missed something.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mellimage on February 09, 2013, 06:52

And a prompt - if content free - reply from the account executive:

"We really appreciate the feedback. Please know that our goal is to create a royalty model that is fair and competitive.

Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you.

Best,"


You gave them a full list of things they can do for you... and they write "Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you..." - read message in full should be added to the list... .  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 09, 2013, 07:16

And a prompt - if content free - reply from the account executive:

"We really appreciate the feedback. Please know that our goal is to create a royalty model that is fair and competitive.

Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you.

Best,"


You gave them a full list of things they can do for you... and they write "Please let us know if there's anything we can do for you..." - read message in full should be added to the list... .  ;) ;) ;)

Spot on. I cannot stand it when they do that. I hate it when they ignore your question and give you canned drivel.

I am an account manager and I do have to deal with difficult situations and telling my clients bad news, I get a ton of questions, and I answer them all. They might not like the answer but they do get answers, and I will do everything in my power to make it easier for them to accept, or to get a better result or whatever. And if I think an email might not cut it, I will call them. I know this is a different situation, but dont give us these canned BS (pun intended) emails, and avoid questions and treat us like a moron.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sharpshot on February 09, 2013, 08:33
...My guess is that the cost at launch will remain the same.  Wouldn't make sense to increase the cost on an unproven site...
The sales pitch in previous threads was that the price was going up as soon as the search went live.

Was not able to find that in previous threads.  As far as I know, the sales pitch was that anyone who signed up during beta would be locked in at $40 a month.  I haven't seen anything about the price going up at launch.  Maybe I missed something.
I think you did miss something, I remember it quite clearly.  Did a quick search, this is one quote from Justin, I'm sure there's more.
"We are offering the beta discount for those helping with and participating in our beta."
So that implies that as soon as the site is launched properly, the price will go up.  I'm sure it was stated more clearly than that somewhere but I'm not wasting my time searching for it.  Already taken this off topic for too long.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 09, 2013, 08:55
...My guess is that the cost at launch will remain the same.  Wouldn't make sense to increase the cost on an unproven site...
The sales pitch in previous threads was that the price was going up as soon as the search went live.

Was not able to find that in previous threads.  As far as I know, the sales pitch was that anyone who signed up during beta would be locked in at $40 a month.  I haven't seen anything about the price going up at launch.  Maybe I missed something.
I think you did miss something, I remember it quite clearly.  Did a quick search, this is one quote from Justin, I'm sure there's more.
"We are offering the beta discount for those helping with and participating in our beta."
So that implies that as soon as the site is launched properly, the price will go up.  I'm sure it was stated more clearly than that somewhere but I'm not wasting my time searching for it.  Already taken this off topic for too long.

I think the "beta discount" refers to the locked in price.  Should the price go up in the future, the discount would then apply to the beta testers.  This doesn't mean that the price would automatically go up at launch.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: klsbear on February 09, 2013, 11:48
Bigstockphoto is below Stockfresh in the polls on the right - it's not even mid-tier right now.  Maybe they expect this to bring them and us new revenue but I can't see this move bringing a flood of new buyers anxious to sign up for subs unless it's a lower price than they can get elsewhere.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Tryingmybest on February 09, 2013, 12:00
I go the same response. I rebutted that the limits were impossible goals for illustrators.

I received a reply from BigStock just now - not from Mr. Pfeifer but from an account executive. Not a great start to pass off your brush-off letter to an underling (and I'm sure the account executive is a wonderful person; it's the tone of the response being set by whether you get it from the person you wrote to vs the janitor's second helper)

"Thank you for your email and feedback.

I absolutely understand your concerns. But please keep in mind that with the launch of subscriptions next week we will be adding an additional way to download images. That means, you will continue to receive between $0.50 and $3.00 per image for credit image sales, 30% of partner sales as well as up to $29.70 for Extended License sales. We will continue to keep the Bigstock and Shutterstock website separate targeting different types of customers.
Please be assured that we will closely monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties and will keep in touch with our colleagues at Shutterstock. Additionally and as we have in the past, we will keep all of our contributors informed and communicate all and any changes to you.
All of us at Bigstock are very passionate about the company and want our products to be successful and with the help of contributors like you we are sure that we can accomplish that.

We look forward to continuing to work with you and should you have any questions or concerns in the future please reach out at any time!

Warm regards,"

Blah, blah - new business - blah blah - big EL number (I don't think I've ever had one at BigStock) - blah blah - passionate - blah blah - let's tackle this together! - blah blah

Not doing for me. I'm not getting any specific answers to the real concerns and a continuation of this crap about "it's just incremental revenue"

I'll touch my forelock now, thank the govna for the crumbs and go back to my hovel :)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 09, 2013, 12:49
Just sent my last payout request, once the money is in my PayPal it's deactivation time.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 09, 2013, 12:55
I go the same response. I rebutted that the limits were impossible goals for illustrators.

Same here. These numbers are crazy.

Even if we assumed for a minute that they will become attainable as Bigstock manages to sell more subscriptions, it's not going to happen overnight. It could take years to match the volume that SS does, if that is even possible. In the meantime, we're getting less for sub sales that could have originated at SS, if buyers were encouraged to buy subscriptions over there instead.

They just keep dangling that carrot...

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 14:03
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

I'm almost to payout at BigStock and 123, at which time I will close 2 more accounts. I'll let everyone else fight over bread crumbs.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 09, 2013, 14:17
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

My heart wants to argue with you, but my head's having a hard time marshaling the facts :)

I am not uploading to SS until the other shoe droos - which I think it most certainly will; the only unknown is when. The other shoe will be a reduction in royalties for almost everyone to the chart shown for BigStock. I'll leave my port there for the moment.

I think I might abandon the big micro agencies and just upload to the promising (ethical, fair) new ones in the hope of catching a future wave. I don't do this full time and I don't want to pay politics with bean counting CEOs. I realize that means a lot less money.

In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 09, 2013, 14:48
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

My heart wants to argue with you, but my head's having a hard time marshaling the facts :)

I am not uploading to SS until the other shoe droos - which I think it most certainly will; the only unknown is when. The other shoe will be a reduction in royalties for almost everyone to the chart shown for BigStock. I'll leave my port there for the moment.

I think I might abandon the big micro agencies and just upload to the promising (ethical, fair) new ones in the hope of catching a future wave. I don't do this full time and I don't want to pay politics with bean counting CEOs. I realize that means a lot less money.

In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.

I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed.  How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 09, 2013, 15:06
Back in 2008 SS increased the commissions because IS was no. 1 microstock agency... SS had to do something back then. Now SS is no.1 and too many contributors are at 0.38.

We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??

I personally worked hard, very hard and invested many thousands of dollars to be where i am now. I won't accept to be screwed by SS/BS or any other agency.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 09, 2013, 15:43
...We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??

Subscription sites depend upon a regular flow of new imagery to get existing subscribers to renew their subscriptions (which is why Jupiter Images pushed StockXpert content onto photos.com and Jupiter Images Unlimited (in 2008 I think) because subscribers were complaining.

The easiest thing to do - but it will be hard to coordinate as I'm sure the big factories will keep doing what they do regardless - is just to stop uploading for now, possibly also leaving BigStock on the Ides of March.

Those in the bridge to BigStock won't want to leave right away as they get a 6 month "stay of execution" with 6 months at 38 cents for each subscription download. I'm as certain as I can be without having been in on the discussions that this was a considered tactic to defuse any opposition. Keep the major players quiet until the stink has died down.

The unfortunate timing of this means that people fleeing iStock exclusivity will be uploading like banshees to Shutterstock to get their portfolio up and earning as fast as they can. That may also blunt any impact of actions by those leaving or halting uplaods.

Lots of people aren't going to be able to just leave Shutterstock because of the amount of money it earns them. I think they're just starting down the road now that iStock already traveled - the one that led to me all but leaving there on D-Day. I wish they'd reconsider, but I think they're now all about the numbers and they have enough contributors and visibility they'll happily lose small fry like me as part of that.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 09, 2013, 16:01
...We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??



Those in the bridge to BigStock won't want to leave right away as they get a 6 month "stay of execution" with 6 months at 38 cents for each subscription download. I'm as certain as I can be without having been in on the discussions that this was a considered tactic to defuse any opposition. Keep the major players quiet until the stink has died down.

I think they're just starting down the road now that iStock already traveled - the one that led to me all but leaving there on D-Day. I wish they'd reconsider, but I think they're now all about the numbers and they have enough contributors and visibility they'll happily lose small fry like me as part of that.

To begin with as you know they cherry picked who they wanted to invite to use bridge and now by guaranteeing our current rate they are assuring that they continue to get images from us for the next 6 months.  That should be our first signal to run.

And I agree they show every indication of going down the same path, which gives us an indication that Jon may plan on cashing out, it seems that the chances are slim that he does not understand that his submitters are also a significant portion of his buyers and when you screw them they will go elsewhere.  This time after getting screwed at IS they will migrate more quickly... it is plausible based on traffic & IS earnings reports that IS lost the 36% that SS picked up in the 3rd of 2012.

"SS Revenue for the third quarter was $42.3 million, a 36% increase from the third quarter of 2011."

"http://investor.shutterstock.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=251362&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1759499&highlight=
"Shutterstock Reports Third Quarter 2012 Financial Results

Snip "Revenue for the third quarter was $42.3 million, a 36% increase from the third quarter of 2011.  The Company experienced growth in all product lines and in all major global territories.

Financial Outlook

The Company's current financial and operating expectations for the fourth quarter of 2012, full year 2012 and full year 2013 are as follows:

Fourth Quarter 2012
    Revenue of $44 - $45 million

Full Year 2012
    Revenue of $164 - $166 million

Cash as Percent of Total Assets (%) (MRQ) 73.73"
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 16:14
this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

No, you do get screwed. Now it is Google refusing to link to your site after scraping your photos for Google Images. I see no way out. We can't even take matters into our own hands any more.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 09, 2013, 16:15
Problem is, I've already quit Fotolia because I couldn't trust them, I've stopped uploading to iStock, but if I really want to protect my images I should quit them. If I also quit SS and BS to prevent them shafting me with a likely commission cut, then I'm left with 123 (currently stopped uploading because of the levels thing), Dreamstime, DP and Canstock out of the top 9 agencies and its no longer worthwhile producing anything for anyone because the return would be so low (in the chart on the right, all the other agencies combined don't make as much as  SS, iS, Fot and BS).

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 16:16
Blah, blah - new business - blah blah - big EL number (I don't think I've ever had one at BigStock) - blah blah - passionate - blah blah - let's tackle this together! - blah blah

Exactly. I have sold 1 EL at BigStock since 2007.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 09, 2013, 16:24
Problem is, I've already quit Fotolia because I couldn't trust them, I've stopped uploading to iStock, but if I really want to protect my images I should quit them. If I also quit SS and BS to prevent them shafting me with a likely commission cut, then I'm left with 123 (currently stopped uploading because of the levels thing), Dreamstime, DP and Canstock out of the top 9 agencies and its no longer worthwhile producing anything for anyone because the return would be so low (in the chart on the right, all the other agencies combined don't make as much as  SS, iS, Fot and BS).

It's ads on your blog and a side line with a Sandwich Board advertising a mattress discounter (that may not translate to Qatar though!)

I already did leave IS; FT wouldn't have me back after I left IS exclusivity; I've stopped uploading at 123rf. There are new things - I'm uploading at GL Stock and Fine Art America, but they're not going to replace the 60% of my stock income that IS+PP+SS+BigStock represent.

I've been doing opportunistic stuff of late anyway - not shoots specifically set up for stock - travel stuff because I was there and wanted to or exploring/improving new skills like HDR. May go back to doing some illustrations which I stopped doing when I was exclusive and iStock shoved them at the back of the best match for a while.

I don't really know about the replacement, but I do think I've reached the end of my personal tether in terms of cutting these agencies slack because they're earning money and tolerating each cut with a "well, it could be worse, so just soldier on" attitude.

I know that isn't exactly a plan, but that's where I am
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 09, 2013, 16:55
If SS goes bad, I think my only sensible course would be to do only a minimum of stuff for the micros and concentrate on other markets, while taking whatever residual income carries on coming in from them.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 09, 2013, 16:56
From an Account Exec at Bigstock:

Quote
...we can guarantee Bigstock and Shutterstock will continue to work independently, targeting different customers. We also would not want to affect your sales at Shutterstock. We will monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties on both sites to avoid any damage to our contributors' earnings. An we promise to keep you all continuously informed.

Really I don't think I can take the word of an AE that the two companies will remain independent of each other. It's a little nice to know that at this point it sounds like there are no plans to merge in any way, either in whole or in shared policies, royalty rates, etc. But as we know all too well, things change. Today it's independence all the way, SS and Bigstock are two different companies. Tomorrow, who knows.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 09, 2013, 17:00
In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.

I agree. It really didn't have to be this way, and it burns me up knowing how much money is being left on the table. Realistically, most of us should have made 2 to 3 times more than we made over the years. But, apparently, that wasn't enough because these companies that we built seem to all want more.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 09, 2013, 17:03
From an Account Exec at Bigstock:

Quote
...we can guarantee Bigstock and Shutterstock will continue to work independently, targeting different customers. We also would not want to affect your sales at Shutterstock. We will monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties on both sites to avoid any damage to our contributors' earnings. An we promise to keep you all continuously informed.

Really I don't think I can take the word of an AE that the two companies will remain independent of each other. It's a little nice to know that at this point it sounds like there are no plans to merge in any way, either in whole or in shared policies, royalty rates, etc. But as we know all too well, things change. Today it's independence all the way, SS and Bigstock are two different companies. Tomorrow, who knows.

When they bought BS didn't they say that they had no plans to sell subs there. Yet, here we are.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Travelling-light on February 09, 2013, 17:04


I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed.  How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?
[/quote]

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world :) If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 18:46
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time. It's a bit disingenuous for me to threaten to leave BigStock and stay at CanStockPhoto.

Honestly I plan to pull out of CanStockPhoto, 123, and BigStock because of these very low subscription commissions. Just waiting to reach payout. Too bad, because I like Duncan and CanStockPhoto is great for uploading and ultra fast reviews. I just don't feel willing to accept 25c commissions any more.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: lisafx on February 09, 2013, 18:51
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock.  Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those.  Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark. 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 18:53
6 of my last 20 sales at CanStockPhoto are 25c subs. Max sale is $1 for a Large. That's pretty pathetic. Well, I guess it will be an easy decision to make.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 09, 2013, 20:30


I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed.  How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world :) If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...
[/quote]

;)  I have heard, yachts, luxury homes in Aspen and helicopters are not so green.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 09, 2013, 22:26
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock.  Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those.  Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark.

34 cents? I only get 30 cents - is that something related to your Canstock camera color?

CanStock is an odd critter - and I like Duncan a bunch too - because it's such a mixture of prices. The 25 cent subs are no good but relatively rare; the Fotosearch sales are nice.

Even at CanStock, the XL-Tiff is $2.50; a large is $2 if it's instant (which a good number of mine are) and the Fotosearch sales are much more lucrative (though a bit thin on the ground of late) - $3.80 for XS to $19.80 for XL.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on February 10, 2013, 00:14
Of my last 20 sales at CanStock, only 2 were 25c subs, a number were 30c subs and most were regular DLs at $0.50 to $2.50.  The $19.80 DLs are frequent enough to give a decent RPDL and rank them #5 in total $$$ after SS, iS, DT, and 123, just a little ahead of FT.  The 25c subs are not annoying there because they are so rare.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: swedstock on February 10, 2013, 04:40
I just got a mail thst confirm that there will be no opt out of subs.
I'm definitely out. I hope everyone drops them to send a clear message to HQ
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: suemack on February 10, 2013, 05:59
I just got a mail thst confirm that there will be no opt out of subs.
I'm definitely out. I hope everyone drops them to send a clear message to HQ

I asked that question as well and haven't had an answer as yet. When they do confirm it I too will be out.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Microbius on February 10, 2013, 06:23


I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed.  How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world :) If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...
[/quote]

I am afraid it is the nature of the game once a company goes public.

They literally have to care about returns to the share holders above all other concerns. That is the only moral code a traded company has: maximize the return for the shareholder.

It is a flaw in the system, not to do with the ethics of any particular company.

The only solution would be for contributors to own most of the shares of an agency, then different priorities could come to the fore, but how long would that last? as soon as a company became successful some/most contributors would sell their shares.

The system sucks for building sustainable companies, great for asset strippers and and short term chancers.

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: fotografer on February 10, 2013, 09:39
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock.  Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those.  Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark.
Similar here.  Of the last 20 sales 13 are between 1$ and 2$ and only one is 25c.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 10, 2013, 11:20

Quote
I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed.  How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world :) If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...

I am afraid it is the nature of the game once a company goes public.

They literally have to care about returns to the share holders above all other concerns. That is the only moral code a traded company has: maximize the return for the shareholder.

It is a flaw in the system, not to do with the ethics of any particular company.

The only solution would be for contributors to own most of the shares of an agency, then different priorities could come to the fore, but how long would that last? as soon as a company became successful some/most contributors would sell their shares.

The system sucks for building sustainable companies, great for asset strippers and and short term chancers.

Maybe my vision is jaded by life experience. I have personally known several owners who took their companies public and one who sold his billion plus revenue corp. to a very large public company. All of them were looking to cash out and they all knew full well what would eventually happen to their business and it's employees.

I don't think for a moment that someone with the capabilities to go public did not go into this with open eyes.  Just look who they and their venture capitalist companions picked to be on their boards.


Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 10, 2013, 15:19
Oh no, remember the new deal "a higher chance to earn higher royalties" you will have massive new downloads at 25 cents, and make it to $30 twice as fast. But remember that BS once changed the payout to $50, and recinded that later, they could do that again too. So you could be a forced labor member until 2015 or so.  >:(

For people who keep repeating how the money will go to the shareholders, profits must go up. Is there any chance that the largest single stock holder is none other than... (what's your guess?) Mine is Jon Oringer. If you got in at $17 a share, which was limited to inside traders only, wouldn't you be happy if the stock almost doubles in a year? I would!

In business terms "we have no plans for..." is often true but also a diversion. Same as "no immediate plans for..." We aren't planning that can mean, we are looking into it, investigating, but we have no active plans. It's a standard dodge for something that someone doesn't want to answer or discuss.

I'm still sticking to Wait and See. The new system hasn't even started yet. I don't know if it will work and make more or be a complete dud. But I'm "making no plans at this time..."  :) To leave BS in the foreseeable future.

Welcome To (http://s5.postimage.org/fl12fx2sn/microstock_zone.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
 (http://postimage.org/)


I asked them if I would leave immediately, would they pay me my 12$ earnings or if I'd have to wait until my earnings reach 30$ to get my money and close my account. This is the answer I got:

Quote
Hello,

We understand your concern.

One of the reasons behind this change is to provide our contributors with a higher chance to earn higher royalties. Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings, and you will still make the current amount from downloads made using credits.

We encourage you to stay, allowing the chance to see your earnings grow.

We cannot issue payouts beneath $30, if you close your account now you would be forfeiting those earnings.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Kindest regards..


So now I have to wait for another year or so to collect the remaining 18$, then I can leave BS. But stopped uploading immediately  8)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 11, 2013, 15:14
Quote
As requested, all images previously uploaded to Bigstock have been deleted.
Best regards,
Bigtock
  ;D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 11, 2013, 16:50
If we're going to do something to at least make our views heard loud and clear by Shutterstock - which is really what everyone's concerned about, I think - I thought having a fair trade symbol might help people publicize what's going on

I've put some draft fair trade logos on my blog - all opinions welcome

http://www.digitalbristles.com/we-need-fair-trade (http://www.digitalbristles.com/we-need-fair-trade)

I'm going to pull my BigStock portfolio on the Ides of March (March 15th) if we don't get an opt out from the new royalty scheme
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: crashoran on February 12, 2013, 00:55
Account at bigstock has been removed  8)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 12, 2013, 03:19
Here's my blog post about the Ides of March and pulling my portfolio if we don't get an opt out from subscriptions at BigStock

http://www.digitalbristles.com/beware-the-ides-of-march (http://www.digitalbristles.com/beware-the-ides-of-march)

I retain a small amount of hope that they can come to their senses in the next month and halt this train wreck.

Tweet for the blog post (in case anyone wants to pass it on)

https://twitter.com/joannsnover/status/301245212993400832 (https://twitter.com/joannsnover/status/301245212993400832)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 12, 2013, 16:46
I see sub sales are live today.  Has anyone had any?   

LOL, has anyone had any sales at all?   They've been more deadsville over here than ever lately. 

Wonder if we will still have to wait a week for sub sales to clear?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 12, 2013, 17:05
Holy hell. The subscription prices are crazy low.

$69 a month??

I had a feeling they'd undercut SS, but not by anywhere near this much.

Edit: Wait, I'm wrong, that's for 5 images per day.

A more comparable plan would be Bigstock's 30 image per day plan for $209.

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 12, 2013, 17:52
Holy hell. The subscription prices are crazy low.

$69 a month??

I had a feeling they'd undercut SS, but not by anywhere near this much.

Edit: Wait, I'm wrong, that's for 5 images per day.

A more comparable plan would be Bigstock's 30 image per day plan for $209.

I can only see euro prices, but it doesnt look good.

SS - 199 euro - 25 images / day - 750 images - 26.5 cent image
BS - 169 euro - 30 images / day - 900 images - 19 cent image

BS is undercutting SS by 7.5 cent per image... !!

Also funny, when I went to the BS site, a chat box popped up, asking me if they could help me find the right sub plan. When I replied I got a classic message back


Quote
Joey:
Hello and thank you for visiting. Can I help you find the right plan?
me: Im just checking by how much you are undercutting Shutterstock

Sorry for the delay. We're working on getting to you as quickly as possible. If you need to run, please feel free to leave us a message.

Thank you for contacting us.
Chat session disconnected.
LMFAO !!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: klsbear on February 12, 2013, 18:59
Holy hell. The subscription prices are crazy low.

$69 a month??

I had a feeling they'd undercut SS, but not by anywhere near this much.

Edit: Wait, I'm wrong, that's for 5 images per day.

A more comparable plan would be Bigstock's 30 image per day plan for $209.

I can only see euro prices, but it doesnt look good.

SS - 199 euro - 25 images / day - 750 images - 26.5 cent image
BS - 169 euro - 30 images / day - 900 images - 19 cent image

BS is undercutting SS by 7.5 cent per image... !!

Also funny, when I went to the BS site, a chat box popped up, asking me if they could help me find the right sub plan. When I replied I got a classic message back


Quote
Joey:
Hello and thank you for visiting. Can I help you find the right plan?
me: Im just checking by how much you are undercutting Shutterstock

Sorry for the delay. We're working on getting to you as quickly as possible. If you need to run, please feel free to leave us a message.

Thank you for contacting us.
Chat session disconnected.
LMFAO !!

You just disconnected too fast.  I think that Joey is multi-tasking on several chats. 

I asked basically the same thing saying I wanted to compare prices between the two sites and got the same message, then a minute later he asked if there was anything he could do to help with that.  I said no, unless he had a spreadsheet comparing the prices that he could send me.  The response was "Sadly, we don not have anything such as that."   

I suspect that has been the conversation of most of the chats today.
 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 12, 2013, 19:17
So if you buy a one-month subscription at BigStock, 30 images a day, it's $209. If you buy a one month at SS, 25 a day, it's $249. If you did an extrapolation from the 25 a day at SS to BigStock prices you'd have $174 a month

If you're in the Bridge to Bigstock program, why would you want to ship off your images to sell for less at a sister site? Where after the 6 months are up you'll get less per download?

It seems even more targeted at shifting business away from SS subscriptions than when we saw only the royalty charts.

My two sales there today were credits, not subs, but perhaps it's going to take a while to ramp up.

Thinkstock charges $299 a month for 25 a day ; Dreamstime is $239.99 for 25 a day and 123rf charges $230 for 26 a day.

Why is SS trying to undercut prices this way? Do they really think they can steal business from the other sites but not from Shutterstock's main site?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 12, 2013, 19:21
.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 12, 2013, 23:36
Looks like a race to the bottom, cut prices and royalties...and Shutterstock is next.  Well maybe they don't have to cut anything at Shutterstock if they just shift business to Bigstock...

No way they're going to deliberately shift things over to Bigstock. Shutterstock is the big gun, the public company, the top microstock site. They won't throw that away.

But you got me thinking... maybe they don't have to cut anything and they can just bring the Bigstock subscription model over to SS. We've talked about the possibility of bringing the tiered royalty rates over. But what about the subscription tiers? I don't think anyone expected that many options for the buyers. I certainly didn't.

Tiered subscription packages based on number of images allowed per day takes a significant part of the equation out of why SS is so successful for contributors. We count on a large number of DLs that don't ever get used by the buyer. Buyers have an allotment of 25 images per day that they can get under a subscription. So they're inclined to grab a few extra images they might not even need, or grab some similars.

Under the Bigstock system, you can choose a number of images per day that more closely aligns with what you think you'll need. This will reduce the number of extra images a buyer might take just because they have the added allotment.

Last year when I was doing a lot more freelance design work, I was an occasional SS subscriber. Some months I needed a ton of images, so I'd buy a subscription. And I downloaded probably more than twice as many images as I ended up using. The subscriptions were still a good deal. If I downloaded 10 images per day I wasn't using half of my allotment but I was still getting images for around a buck a piece.

But if I knew I could get 10 images a day and save $150 just by switching to Bigstock, I might be inclined to do exactly that.

I just don't get what the endgame is here, though. For Bigstock, this is driving new business their way through some very competitive subscription offerings. But what can SS gain here? They make a lot of money selling 25-a-day subscriptions, counting on people like me not using their allotment. They can't gain anything by giving the buyers more choices. Only the buyers benefit from that. Lack of choice is integral to the success of the SS subscription model.

All I can imagine is that they're thinking maybe they'll save money by not having to pay out as much to us through a lower volume of sales and lower royalties, while still remaining profitable through increased volume of subscription sales at lower prices. But I don't know how that would actually work out.

Maybe that's the point. They don't know if this can work, so they're testing it at Bigstock first.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 12, 2013, 23:57
.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 13, 2013, 00:20
I don't see how getting $69 a month from someone who buys and uses all 150 images (with BS paying at least $38 in commissions) could possibly be better than someone paying $250, using maybe 150 they want and 150 they don't and SS paying out 300x a maximum 38c = $104 in commissions. Isn't a residue of $146 bigger than a residue of $31, or has microstock now reinvented the value of money, too?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 13, 2013, 01:21
Holy hell. The subscription prices are crazy low.

$69 a month??

I had a feeling they'd undercut SS, but not by anywhere near this much.

Edit: Wait, I'm wrong, that's for 5 images per day.

A more comparable plan would be Bigstock's 30 image per day plan for $209.

I can only see euro prices, but it doesnt look good.

SS - 199 euro - 25 images / day - 750 images - 26.5 cent image
BS - 169 euro - 30 images / day - 900 images - 19 cent image

BS is undercutting SS by 7.5 cent per image... !!

Also funny, when I went to the BS site, a chat box popped up, asking me if they could help me find the right sub plan. When I replied I got a classic message back


Quote
Joey:
Hello and thank you for visiting. Can I help you find the right plan?
me: Im just checking by how much you are undercutting Shutterstock

Sorry for the delay. We're working on getting to you as quickly as possible. If you need to run, please feel free to leave us a message.

Thank you for contacting us.
Chat session disconnected.
LMFAO !!

You just disconnected too fast.  I think that Joey is multi-tasking on several chats. 

I asked basically the same thing saying I wanted to compare prices between the two sites and got the same message, then a minute later he asked if there was anything he could do to help with that.  I said no, unless he had a spreadsheet comparing the prices that he could send me.  The response was "Sadly, we don not have anything such as that."   

I suspect that has been the conversation of most of the chats today.
  I didnt disconnect at all, they disconnected me.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: brm1949 on February 13, 2013, 08:46
Made a sale today called a Partner Basic Sale for .89 That's a new one for me, most of my sales were 1.00, 2.00
standard sales.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: fotografer on February 13, 2013, 09:59
No subs but a 25$ EL.  :D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 13, 2013, 10:31
No subs but a 25$ EL.  :D
That's a rare beast, indeed.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: fotografer on February 13, 2013, 10:40
No subs but a 25$ EL.  :D
That's a rare beast, indeed.
Sure is
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dbvirago on February 13, 2013, 16:50
Just got my first .27 sale at BS. I thought it was going to be .38, but then I remembered I'm about 54,000 sales short
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Pixart on February 13, 2013, 16:51
Don't worry, you'll get there soon.  I hear they have a terrific marketing plan.   ;)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: suemack on February 14, 2013, 04:59
Replied to the answer from support telling me there was no Opt Out, asked them to remove my files.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 14, 2013, 05:24
Don't worry, you'll get there soon.  I hear they have a terrific marketing plan.   ;)

I have actually seen a bigstock advert banner - images for as little as 17c, it said, or something similar (I might have got the number wrong but it was peanuts).
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 14, 2013, 17:43
I got my first sub sale today too. It's impressive and disturbing how quickly they sold these sub packages.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on February 14, 2013, 17:47
I got my first sub sale today too. It's impressive and disturbing how quickly they sold these sub packages.
Thank your old pal Oringer for that.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 14, 2013, 18:14

I got one today as well. Long way to go to 50k, though. ;)

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 14, 2013, 18:15
.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nicku on February 15, 2013, 01:28
I believe the big majority of SS clients will stay on SS... BS has only 13 millions images online and SS over 21 millions. The extra 8M will make the difference for majority of clients.
........... at least i hope  ???
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Allsa on February 19, 2013, 13:57
I've got five 27 cent downloads so far. I'm beginning to think I should stop uploading to BS.  My earnings there are low enough where I could afford to close my account altogether, but I don't want to take that step just yet. What's everyone else doing?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: nailiaschwarz on February 19, 2013, 14:31
After receiving the last payout from BS, I told them to close my account ASAP. Let' see how long it will take ...
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 19, 2013, 16:54
I'm planning to remove my portfolio March 15th if we don't get an opt out for the subs sales.

If we got an opt out, I'd opt out and stay (and hope that this toxic royalty scheme doesn't find its way to SS or credit sales at both Bigstock and SS).
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cathyslife on February 19, 2013, 17:58
I'm planning to remove my portfolio March 15th if we don't get an opt out for the subs sales.

If we got an opt out, I'd opt out and stay (and hope that this toxic royalty scheme doesn't find its way to SS or credit sales at both Bigstock and SS).

Yep, I got a .27 today...on an image that previously got .50, 1.00 or 2.00. I will take my stuff down too if they don't provide an opt out. I am on Shutterstock and sell subscriptions there...I'm not interested in getting lower commissions here than there.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: gbalex on February 19, 2013, 19:39
I believe the big majority of SS clients will stay on SS... BS has only 13 millions images online and SS over 21 millions. The extra 8M will make the difference for majority of clients.
........... at least i hope  ???

I would think that the bridge program will bring over the most sought after SS ports/files while also excluding the junk we need to wade thru as buyers. Therefore it may be easier to find the images buyers need on BS. I think that is why they are still offering .38 for the bridge images. 

I wonder how much BS benefits from the funds spent by SS on software and search development. If they share technology that would also cut BS overhead.

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 19, 2013, 20:18
I believe the big majority of SS clients will stay on SS... BS has only 13 millions images online and SS over 21 millions. The extra 8M will make the difference for majority of clients.
........... at least i hope  ???

I agree, and that difference will only increase.  Bigstock is basically irrelevant regarding income.  This is not like Istock where closing an account might cause a big drop in income.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Allsa on February 19, 2013, 21:46

[/quote]

I would think that the bridge program will bring over the most sought after SS ports/files while also excluding the junk we need to wade thru as buyers. Therefore it may be easier to find the images buyers need on BS. I think that is why they are still offering .38 for the bridge images. 

[/quote]

This is the source of much of my anger regarding the situation - I have been diligently uploading to BS since 2005, and as a reward for my loyalty I get a lousy 27 cents compared to the 'bridge' people who receive 38 cents per subs download. If keep uploading in spite of this gross injustice, it will look like I am OK with it. Long term loyalty should not be rewarded with a kick in the a$$! If there is no opt out on subs I will,  at the very least,  stop uploading. A little site like BS should not be able to get away with treating contributors like this. And if they do get away with it, it will only serve to embolden the larger agencies.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: suemack on February 20, 2013, 01:30
After receiving the last payout from BS, I told them to close my account ASAP. Let' see how long it will take ...

Didn't take long to close my account after I requested it. Went to check the next morning and it was gone.  I'd asked about the Opt Out button and was told it was not going to be an option.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dirkr on February 20, 2013, 02:47
Do they pay out the open balance when I close my account? Or do I have to wait until I reach payout?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: suemack on February 20, 2013, 04:35
I would wait till you reach payout then close account.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: SID on February 20, 2013, 05:07
I was in the bridge and I pulled the plug.
I am tired of being cheated day by day!
"Subscriptions can allow more downloads, and higher total earnings..." - blah blah blah.
Sounds like a greedy thief to me - this is not the behavior of a reliable business partner.

Istock - cancelled
Getty - cancelled
Bigstock - cancelled
who's next - Shutter???
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: dirkr on February 20, 2013, 05:49
I would wait till you reach payout then close account.
Thanks, sounds right. I'll wait and then decide after the next payout whether I'll pull the plug...
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Tryingmybest on February 20, 2013, 15:00

I got one today as well. Long way to go to 50k, though. ;)


50,000+ sales! We're all going to get rich at Bigstock!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: PixelBytes on February 20, 2013, 15:57

I got one today as well. Long way to go to 50k, though. ;)


50,000+ sales! We're all going to get rich at Bigstock!

LOL!  I'm putting the down payment on my Bentley now ;D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 20, 2013, 18:28

I got one today as well. Long way to go to 50k, though. ;)

50,000+ sales! We're all going to get rich at Bigstock!

I can appreciate their desire to set milestones that won't have to be changed. No one wants to see them pull an istock or a Fotolia and goal posts mid-game.

But 50k is unrealistic no matter how you look at it. That's tough to do at SS, and they're the #1 company in the business. No one is going to be hitting that number. Not in 6 months, or a year. Maybe 5 years out.

But even then, it's all up to how well Bigstock does. These are milestones that we can't hit no matter how hard we work. Can they sell that many subscriptions?

Vector artists are extra screwed in this. Bigstock is an especially tough site for vector sales. Not a whole lot of action there. I doubt I'll get close to even 20k at Bigstock even once the subscription program hits a running pace in a few years. It's just not that kind of place for vector artists.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: SunnyMarsDesigns on February 20, 2013, 18:42
I'm a few dollars away from giving them the arse. 

If Shutterstock later follow their lead with this RC payment system, I'll tell them to stick it too.  I've had a gutful of dirty microstock agents.  Last year I gave away Dreamstime, DepositPhotos and 123rf.  This year BigStock and who else?  I'm not even bothered anymore.  The more I let go, the less stressed I am, the better I feel and funnily enough, the more income I make from my images.

 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: roede-orm on February 20, 2013, 18:48
The more I let go, the less stressed I am, the better I feel and funnily enough, the more income I make from my images.

Really? How does it work?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: tickstock on February 20, 2013, 20:00
.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Beach Bum on February 20, 2013, 20:11
I'm a few dollars away from giving them the arse. 

If Shutterstock later follow their lead with this RC payment system, I'll tell them to stick it too.  I've had a gutful of dirty microstock agents.  Last year I gave away Dreamstime, DepositPhotos and 123rf.  This year BigStock and who else?  I'm not even bothered anymore.  The more I let go, the less stressed I am, the better I feel and funnily enough, the more income I make from my images.

Are you selling from your own site?
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 26, 2013, 11:31
Can someone clear this up for me? I didn't see the announcement and have not found a post quoting the specific plan.

Bridge people get 38 cents until the end of June, and then go into the program at whatever 12 month download rate?

The rest of us are all on the last 12 months download total effective now?

(http://s5.postimage.org/hr8tuvuxz/bigstock_rc_levels.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Brave New Commissions (http://postimage.org/)

Just waiting for my first 25 cent download I guess?  :(  Then all I need is 199 more and I can make as much as I do on StinkStock. This is sad.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: EmberMike on February 26, 2013, 11:40
Can someone clear this up for me? I didn't see the announcement and have not found a post quoting the specific plan.

Bridge people get 38 cents until the end of June, and then go into the program at whatever 12 month download rate?

The rest of us are all on the last 12 months download total effective now?...

Yep, that's right. Non-Bridge users like you and me are already at our 12-month rates, which is especially ridiculous since those rates are being based on 12 months in which subscriptions didn't exist, so there's no way we could possibly have any substantial sales volume to hit a $0.31+ rate.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 26, 2013, 11:46
Thanks. Just can't wait for my first Quarter to come rolling in the door.  ::)

This will be fun to watch, and personally I don't give a *. They aren't making me anything and I only kept BS because it was a Sister site to SS. Leaving won't hurt them or me. I'm just waiting, to see how the story ends.


Can someone clear this up for me? I didn't see the announcement and have not found a post quoting the specific plan.

Bridge people get 38 cents until the end of June, and then go into the program at whatever 12 month download rate?

The rest of us are all on the last 12 months download total effective now?...

Yep, that's right. Non-Bridge users like you and me are already at our 12-month rates, which is especially ridiculous since those rates are being based on 12 months in which subscriptions didn't exist, so there's no way we could possibly have any substantial sales volume to hit a $0.31+ rate.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: luissantos84 on February 26, 2013, 11:53
Hello Mike,

Thanks.  The team will be monitoring subscription volume and usage on an ongoing basis.  Bridge to Bigstock contributors are guaranteed the highest subscription download royalty of 38 cents per download for six months.  Changes can't be guaranteed, but the team is sensitive to contributor royalties. If any changes are expected based on how Bigstock customers are responding to subscriptions, they would be communicated in advance during that time period or at the end of the six months.  The goal is to have both fair and competitive rates while also minimizing the possibility of having to adjust rates in the future.

Best,

Scott 
VP Content
Shutterstock
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: w7lwi on February 26, 2013, 13:10
Had my first $0.25 download yesterday.  Ironically, the same image also sold on BS yesterday for $1.00.  It'll be interesting to see if the dollar sales disappear and the subscription sales take over.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mantis on February 26, 2013, 15:09
This will be the worst month for me at BS since Nov 2011.  I am 50% down but, hey, I have plenty of subs this month.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: thepoeticimage on February 26, 2013, 16:01
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Mantis on February 27, 2013, 07:42
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .

hahahahahahahha I didn't think to compare those numbers but I am nearly even steven between a defunct site and BigStock....oh man I need another beer...and it's 4:42 a.m. 8)
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 27, 2013, 12:18
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .

Your ThinkStock downloads for 25 cents are more than both those places put together? Too bad you don't have all those files on IS, it would be paying 28 cents.

And here I am thinking of how 28 cents beats 25 cents? It feels ridiculous.

I'll guess that you and most of us will be getting 25 cents at BS. What do subs at DP pay?

Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 27, 2013, 12:21
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .

Your ThinkStock downloads for 25 cents are more than both those places put together? Too bad you don't have all those files on IS, it would be paying 28 cents.

And here I am thinking of how 28 cents beats 25 cents? It feels ridiculous.

I'll guess that you and most of us will be getting 25 cents at BS. What do subs at DP pay?

I get .31 at DP. So far today my DP is beating my SS and as for BigStock......whatever
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on February 27, 2013, 12:26
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .

Your ThinkStock downloads for 25 cents are more than both those places put together? Too bad you don't have all those files on IS, it would be paying 28 cents.

And here I am thinking of how 28 cents beats 25 cents? It feels ridiculous.

I'll guess that you and most of us will be getting 25 cents at BS. What do subs at DP pay?

I get .31 at DP. So far today my DP is beating my SS and as for BigStock......whatever

Thanks, interesting. StockXpert beats DP and BS added together, and your DP beats SS. Let me guess, SS and BS didn't take most of your files that are selling on DP and StockXpert?  ;D
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 27, 2013, 12:34
Strangely enough, my StockXpert (deceased) income has been more than double my income on Bigstock and Depositphotos the last two months . . . .

Your ThinkStock downloads for 25 cents are more than both those places put together? Too bad you don't have all those files on IS, it would be paying 28 cents.

And here I am thinking of how 28 cents beats 25 cents? It feels ridiculous.

I'll guess that you and most of us will be getting 25 cents at BS. What do subs at DP pay?

I get .31 at DP. So far today my DP is beating my SS and as for BigStock......whatever

Thanks, interesting. StockXpert beats DP and BS added together, and your DP beats SS. Let me guess, SS and BS didn't take most of your files that are selling on DP and StockXpert?  ;D

nope I have 4400 vectors on SS and I'm bridge on BS :) 
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: cthoman on February 27, 2013, 12:37

nope I have 4400 vectors on SS and I'm bridge on BS :)

Awesome portfolio in my opinion.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: MisterElements on February 27, 2013, 12:44

nope I have 4400 vectors on SS and I'm bridge on BS :)

Awesome portfolio in my opinion.

Thanks... I've always thought your work was awesome!
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: djpadavona on February 28, 2013, 17:03
Credit sales for $1-$2 are being replaced by subscriptions sales for 25c, if my account is any indication. As we all expected. There are no "new" buyers, just buyers converting to the All You Can Eat Buffet.

When I hit payout, the account gets closed. Hopefully I'll be completely out of microstock by this time next year.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Allsa on February 28, 2013, 20:55
I've had 9 downloads over the past 2 days on BS, and of those 6 of them were 27¢ subs downloads. How is this any better than StinkStock? I'm still burning from the injustice of receiving a lower royalty simply because I was already on BS when SS initiated the 'Bridge to Bigstock' program. I'm so disgusted that I'm considering closing my account, but I don't want to do anything in anger that I'll regret later. Although if my BS earnings there go much lower I won't have much of anything to lose...
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: Poncke on March 01, 2013, 05:51
I found out they wont delete your files when you ask them to close your account. I closed my account last year June or so, and when I emailed them last month a few weeks before the RC scheme came in place if I could be bridged with SS, they cold me they could reinstate all my images. I was quite surprised. So now I demanded all images would be deleted from all BS servers and they confirmed. But I dont trust them for one bit. Most agencies are out to scam and squeeze the photographers it seems these days.
Title: Re: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system
Post by: RacePhoto on March 01, 2013, 17:05

nope I have 4400 vectors on SS and I'm bridge on BS :)

Awesome portfolio in my opinion.

And that might be an understatement.  :)