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Author Topic: Dreamstime and Pinterest  (Read 19484 times)

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« on: June 06, 2012, 06:51 »
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This has been talked about in another thread, but kind of buried now. I have a specific question about it.

This link was provided by Serban:

http://pinterest.com/source/dreamstime.com/

He stated that images that come from DT can be seen here.

Today when I go there, the images are different than they were a couple of days ago. I only see one page, but there are many more pins than that. Do I have to join pinterest to see them all?


« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2012, 07:13 »
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On Pinterest, if you type dreamstime into the search, you will get a different page from your link. Also, as you scroll to the bottom of that page, you will see photos that aren't linked back to Dreamstime, but have the word "dreamstime" in the copy.

I forgot to mention that I was logged in, so your return might look different than mine.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 07:17 by rimglow »

« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 07:49 »
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Thanks rimglow, I'll try that.

grafix04

« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 08:39 »
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Whoa, I was just checking out this page and noticed that the orange watercolor poppies have been 'pinned' twice yesterday and have received a bunch of 're-pins' each already.  I started tracking them and am quite shocked.  I feel sorry for the woman who owns this image which is here on DT:

http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-image-stock-image-abstract-watercolor-poppies-image5951471

This is what has happened in just 24 hours or so:


First Pin
               
Chenoa Orme-Stone - 7 repins               
   Linda Ploch            
   Mayra Verzilli  - 2 repins            
      Mary Behnam         
      Beth Martin - 1 repin         
         Eileen Wiens      
   Abby Norcross - 2 repins            
      Artic Wolf         
      Susan Gardner          
   Amy Martinez            
   Monica Wright            
   Carol Grant            
   Karen Baker            

               
Second Pin               
               
Kathryn Chang - 11 repins               
   Mandy Maierhofer            
   Sharon Harris             
   Abril Townsend - 1 repin            
      Julie Brier         
   Mackenzie Berger - 4 repins            
      Leah Frandsen          
      Nicole Kruszka          
      Jo Townsend          
      Barb Ricketts Varisco         
   Mari cela Black Mouth            
   Sam Ruggles            
   Lita Sanford-Ireland - 2 repins            
      Bennett Thomas - 1 repin         
         Whitney Oller - 2 repins      
            James Madison   
            Jill Rose-Feusse   
      Desiree Osborne         
   Sarah Giannotti - 1 repin            
      Nancy Foley - 2 repins         
         Paige Boldt - 1 repin      
            Jan Ward   
         Greta Černiauskaitė      
   Unknown            
   Unknown            
   Unknown            
               

'Pins' only show a max of 8 're-pins' each so I can't see the details of the last three 're-pins' and there's no way of telling if they've been 'repinned'.
                  
This is really bad.  In just one day, this image has been 'pinned'/'repinned' at least 37 times already and who knows how many more people have infringed copyright by embedding the image on their site.  This is just the beginning.  If this can happen over 24 hours, what is going to happen to this woman's best seller after a year?  This image will be everywhere and it will lose it's value so quickly.  No buyer's going to want it.

This is crazy.  How can Serban say that contributors or DT will benefit from this?

ETA:  I added their names intentionally so that hopefully they'll find themselves here and understand how they are infringing on our copyright.  Most of them probably believe they're doing us a favor and don't realize how 'pinning' is effecting our livelihood.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 08:43 by grafix04 »

« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 08:45 »
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On Pinterest, if you type dreamstime into the search, you will get a different page from your link. Also, as you scroll to the bottom of that page, you will see photos that aren't linked back to Dreamstime, but have the word "dreamstime" in the copy.

I forgot to mention that I was logged in, so your return might look different than mine.

I did the search, as you said, and yes, I do see different results. But I still see only 1 page of posts. Isn't there any way to see ALL images that have been pinned from DT? In other words, if you do a search for an image on DT, the search returns say 20 images, but then there are more page numbers to click. Nothing like that on Pinterest?

grafix04...that is just incredible. Multiply that by what, thousands, tens of thousands daily?

« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 08:50 »
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I did the search, as you said, and yes, I do see different results. But I still see only 1 page of posts. Isn't there any way to see ALL images that have been pinned from DT? In other words, if you do a search for an image on DT, the search returns say 20 images, but then there are more page numbers to click. Nothing like that on Pinterest?

As you scroll down the results it should load more automatically. Unless you have scripting turned off.

« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 08:54 »
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What? Can they do that? :s I thought you transferred all rights to the images to Pinterest when you uploaded to them...?

« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 09:06 »
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On Pinterest, if you type dreamstime into the search, you will get a different page from your link. Also, as you scroll to the bottom of that page, you will see photos that aren't linked back to Dreamstime, but have the word "dreamstime" in the copy.

I forgot to mention that I was logged in, so your return might look different than mine.

I did the search, as you said, and yes, I do see different results. But I still see only 1 page of posts. Isn't there any way to see ALL images that have been pinned from DT? In other words, if you do a search for an image on DT, the search returns say 20 images, but then there are more page numbers to click. Nothing like that on Pinterest?

grafix04...that is just incredible. Multiply that by what, thousands, tens of thousands daily?

I contacted Pinterest asking how see more pages in my search. The emailed me this automated answer:
- Search is a feature we are working on a lot behind-the-scenes, so not all pins are being surfaced in search results. Much of this has to do with new features were putting in place to detect spam and as we fine-tune this process, we apologize if your pins are not being shown.

« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 09:07 »
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I did the search, as you said, and yes, I do see different results. But I still see only 1 page of posts. Isn't there any way to see ALL images that have been pinned from DT? In other words, if you do a search for an image on DT, the search returns say 20 images, but then there are more page numbers to click. Nothing like that on Pinterest?

As you scroll down the results it should load more automatically. Unless you have scripting turned off.

Don't think I have scripting turned off but will check.  Maybe I'm scrolling too fast for it to load? I use a font website that works that way and sometimes you have to wait for it to load. Thanks for the tip, I'll try again.

« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 09:09 »
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I contacted Pinterest asking how see more pages in my search. The emailed me this answer:
- Search is a feature we are working on a lot behind-the-scenes, so not all pins are being surfaced in search results. Much of this has to do with new features were putting in place to detect spam and as we fine-tune this process, we apologize if your pins are not being shown.

oops I posted the same time as you. They're worried about spam but not about copyright infringement? That's just great.

grafix04

« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 09:12 »
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On Pinterest, if you type dreamstime into the search, you will get a different page from your link. Also, as you scroll to the bottom of that page, you will see photos that aren't linked back to Dreamstime, but have the word "dreamstime" in the copy.

I forgot to mention that I was logged in, so your return might look different than mine.

I did the search, as you said, and yes, I do see different results. But I still see only 1 page of posts. Isn't there any way to see ALL images that have been pinned from DT? In other words, if you do a search for an image on DT, the search returns say 20 images, but then there are more page numbers to click. Nothing like that on Pinterest?

grafix04...that is just incredible. Multiply that by what, thousands, tens of thousands daily?

It's bad.  Each week the problem will be compounded.

About the pages, Pinterest doesn't have pages, just long Pinboards.  I watched a video of a guy trying to track the original photographer of an image that was 're-pinned' all over the place and he had to go through dozens of these extremely long pages or pinboards each time.  He recorded it on video and from memory, the video went on for 10 minutes or so.  But he had sped up the search on the video by 800 times and was scrolling forever.  There are some boards that are ridiculously long already and they're only going to get longer over time.  Tracking 're-pins' is going to be a nightmare.  It already is.

grafix04

« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 09:14 »
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What? Can they do that? :s I thought you transferred all rights to the images to Pinterest when you uploaded to them...?

That's correct.  Can DT do that?  Not really but they are doing it anyway. 

grafix04

« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 09:20 »
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I contacted Pinterest asking how see more pages in my search. The emailed me this answer:
- Search is a feature we are working on a lot behind-the-scenes, so not all pins are being surfaced in search results. Much of this has to do with new features were putting in place to detect spam and as we fine-tune this process, we apologize if your pins are not being shown.

oops I posted the same time as you. They're worried about spam but not about copyright infringement? That's just great.

LOL, I was about to type the exact same thing.

About the page not loading, try a different browser.  Chrome's usually fastest for me.  Firefox tends to chew too much memory and IE is a heap of crap.

« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 09:47 »
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LOL, I was about to type the exact same thing.

About the page not loading, try a different browser.  Chrome's usually fastest for me.  Firefox tends to chew too much memory and IE is a heap of crap.

Thanks I'll try that. I do use Firefox.

« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 10:14 »
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I added their names intentionally so that hopefully they'll find themselves here and understand how they are infringing on our copyright.  Most of them probably believe they're doing us a favor and don't realize how 'pinning' is effecting our livelihood.

I'd be interested if you can quantify what you think what damage this example has done to the creators livelihood. I ask because I regarded my income to be coming from business to business sales. I regard my customers to be designers from sole proprietors through SME agencies to design departments in global conglomerations. The vast majority of which will be bound by professional standards of accountability to their end users, other businesses or internal departments. I'm fairly sure that in the UK at least these end users are fairly well educated in copyright issues - if only for the publicity that Getty garnered with their infamous money demanding campaigns.

I do not see each example of pinning as some sort of lost sale, I do not really see what is predominately women's idle chit chat on a social network persuading someone in the art department of the company around the corner deciding to not pay what is still really small change for a legitimate image.

This is no Napster free for all - that was going for the same end user as the record companies - the consumer, the man in the street , but even then it was certain that one downloaded track did not equal one lost sale.

I've seen plenty hyperbole on the subject, and yes I don't think its good ethics for a company to make money ( if it ever will ) by using a questionable business model, but I would like to see some reasoned persuasive arguments that quantify the damage done to the core stock business of selling images to other businesses.

grafix04

« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 10:56 »
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I added their names intentionally so that hopefully they'll find themselves here and understand how they are infringing on our copyright.  Most of them probably believe they're doing us a favor and don't realize how 'pinning' is effecting our livelihood.

I'd be interested if you can quantify what you think what damage this example has done to the creators livelihood. I ask because I regarded my income to be coming from business to business sales. I regard my customers to be designers from sole proprietors through SME agencies to design departments in global conglomerations. The vast majority of which will be bound by professional standards of accountability to their end users, other businesses or internal departments. I'm fairly sure that in the UK at least these end users are fairly well educated in copyright issues - if only for the publicity that Getty garnered with their infamous money demanding campaigns.

I do not see each example of pinning as some sort of lost sale, I do not really see what is predominately women's idle chit chat on a social network persuading someone in the art department of the company around the corner deciding to not pay what is still really small change for a legitimate image.

This is no Napster free for all - that was going for the same end user as the record companies - the consumer, the man in the street , but even then it was certain that one downloaded track did not equal one lost sale.

I've seen plenty hyperbole on the subject, and yes I don't think its good ethics for a company to make money ( if it ever will ) by using a questionable business model, but I would like to see some reasoned persuasive arguments that quantify the damage done to the core stock business of selling images to other businesses.

I've already briefly mentioned one of the reasons why it would reduce revenue in my previous post.  An image that is posted on Pinterest becomes public domain and allows the public to then grab the code and add the image on their websites.  If an image is plastered all over the net so quickly, it will lose it's value.  Buyers (all types) won't find it appealing and will be looking for something more fresh.  Overtime, images become stale and with Pinterest now in the picture, the value of our images will diminish at a rapid rate making us all having to work harder to keep our portfolios fresh.  Our RPI is likely to drop significantly over time. 

I can't quantify the damages.  How could I?  Pinterest is still new.  We'll have to wait and see what damages it causes in the future, but will it be too late to do anything about it then?  This is only the beginning and it will get out of hand because the images are not contained on Pinterest. 

Sure, you're big corporate clients will continue paying to license our images but most of those buy subscription plans.  Credit sales will be effected, particularly from smaller buyers who can take our images directly from Pinterest, for free.  Instead of converting thieves to buyers, Pinterest will convert more buyers to thieving.  Why wouldn't they take something for free when it's there for the taking?  Pinterest is hosting large sized images which are more than large enough for web usage.

And then there's the other issues.  No one has the right to place our images in public domain, but how do we police this?  We can't.  As the image library on Pinterest gets larger, it will be harder to find them.  Even if we do find them, it will be a full time job having them taken down.

« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 10:56 »
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I added their names intentionally so that hopefully they'll find themselves here and understand how they are infringing on our copyright.  Most of them probably believe they're doing us a favor and don't realize how 'pinning' is effecting our livelihood.

I'd be interested if you can quantify what you think what damage this example has done to the creators livelihood. I ask because I regarded my income to be coming from business to business sales. I regard my customers to be designers from sole proprietors through SME agencies to design departments in global conglomerations. The vast majority of which will be bound by professional standards of accountability to their end users, other businesses or internal departments. I'm fairly sure that in the UK at least these end users are fairly well educated in copyright issues - if only for the publicity that Getty garnered with their infamous money demanding campaigns.

I do not see each example of pinning as some sort of lost sale, I do not really see what is predominately women's idle chit chat on a social network persuading someone in the art department of the company around the corner deciding to not pay what is still really small change for a legitimate image.

This is no Napster free for all - that was going for the same end user as the record companies - the consumer, the man in the street , but even then it was certain that one downloaded track did not equal one lost sale.

I've seen plenty hyperbole on the subject, and yes I don't think its good ethics for a company to make money ( if it ever will ) by using a questionable business model, but I would like to see some reasoned persuasive arguments that quantify the damage done to the core stock business of selling images to other businesses.

There are numerous threads on this topic, some of which present answers to some of your questions. And even if you want to dismiss the idea that you might be losing money, what about copyright infringement? That doesn't bother you?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 10:58 by cclapper »

Microbius

« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 11:06 »
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This whole thing is getting overly complex. The basic point is that what Dreamstime is doing is explicitly against Pinterest's stated terms. You can only pin images you have copyright to.

« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 15:18 »
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This whole thing is getting overly complex. The basic point is that what Dreamstime is doing is explicitly against Pinterest's stated terms. You can only pin images you have copyright to.


And I see DT has an account at Pin and is doing some of the dirty work themselves

http://pinterest.com/dreamstime/

It's also so damned nice to see they are willy pinning the Editor's Choice images

http://pinterest.com/dreamstime/editor-s-choice/

And whoever mentioned Image Exchange to find images in the other Pin thread? Yeah, that doesn;t work - apparently Pin has denied access to that agent.

And an edit/update:

I wanted to test image exchange so I went on Google images and typed in a common keyword. Image Exchange is up and working. But I found a stock image that was snatched full res right off Wikipedia that was loaded to a stock site. Some sleuthing of that stock account at one of the low earners reveals several stolen items.

This is one of the reasons I gravitate further and further from micro each day.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 15:33 by stormchaser »

red

« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2012, 20:05 »
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So. This guy has a page on pinterest that is titled "Photo(sic) that I have sold across image banks" - http://pinterest.com/mypstudio/photo-sold/

Does he think this will bring in more sales? I'm clueless about social media but I wonder if the common pinterest user cares that he is selling photos when they can "pin" them for free? I just don't get it. Oh, and it seems it was pinned using an iphone app called pinmarklet http://pinterest.com/about/goodies/#pinmarklet. I am so out of it (and glad to be).
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 23:24 by cuppacoffee »

« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2012, 22:38 »
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And I see DT has an account at Pin and is doing some of the dirty work themselves

Just because a page says that it belongs to Dreamstime doesn't mean that DT had anything to do with it. Pinterest allows its users to use the trademarks and logos of companies without permission, and make the pages look like they are the official company page.
"20 B2B Marketers Losing their Brand on Pinterest"
http://b2bdigital.net/2012/02/21/b2b-marketers-pinterest/

grafix04

« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 00:32 »
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This whole thing is getting overly complex. The basic point is that what Dreamstime is doing is explicitly against Pinterest's stated terms. You can only pin images you have copyright to.


And I see DT has an account at Pin and is doing some of the dirty work themselves

http://pinterest.com/dreamstime/

It's also so damned nice to see they are willy pinning the Editor's Choice images

http://pinterest.com/dreamstime/editor-s-choice/

And whoever mentioned Image Exchange to find images in the other Pin thread? Yeah, that doesn;t work - apparently Pin has denied access to that agent.

And an edit/update:

I wanted to test image exchange so I went on Google images and typed in a common keyword. Image Exchange is up and working. But I found a stock image that was snatched full res right off Wikipedia that was loaded to a stock site. Some sleuthing of that stock account at one of the low earners reveals several stolen items.

This is one of the reasons I gravitate further and further from micro each day.


That was me on the Getty / Pinterest thread.  I've been talking to Marc Wendell of PicScout and he said that ImageExchange works on Pinterest only if you use the right-click on the image.  It doesn't though.  I let him know and am waiting for him to get back to me.  The only way to find Pinterest images using ImageExchange is to do through google by searching "site:Pinerest.com" in an image search. 

Storm, do you have a link to that stock site or portfolio?

« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 02:28 »
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Storm, do you have a link to that stock site or portfolio?

I will have to do a search and see if I can come up with it again. There are so many thieves on micro I've kind of stopped caring.

grafix04

« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2012, 04:13 »
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Storm, do you have a link to that stock site or portfolio?

I will have to do a search and see if I can come up with it again. There are so many thieves on micro I've kind of stopped caring.

No, it's cool.  Don't go looking for it. 

Microbius

« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2012, 04:48 »
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The thread on DT seems to be going on for a long time, don't DT usually get this sort of discussion shut down before it gets started? Maybe they are actually considering if it is a good idea or not and genuinely want feedback?


 

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