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Author Topic: DT, is flagging images!!  (Read 18700 times)

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« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2011, 21:19 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.


« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2011, 06:26 »
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A few month ago someone flagged one of my photos of a guard in Buckingham Palace for using key word "buckingham palace". I replied the guard is a Buckingham Palace guard and asked what is the problem with that. Yesterday I got another photo flagged for keyword "england" and the photo is "Rolling hills in the Lake District of England" in the title and summary.

I don't want to be rude so I'd better stop writting any more....

dbvirago

« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2011, 14:48 »
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Does anyone know how to mark all messages as read? Some industrious person has done me the courtesy of flagging about 50 of my images. They are all close ups of faces, so I'm not sure what the keyword problem is. I clicked on both links in the message but couldn't find the keyword problem - and frankly I don't have any intention of looking through 50 images to find out. Many images are over 5 years old.

« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2011, 15:16 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.

Only if you assume DT actually reviews the flagging in a meaningful way.  Remember, the whole point of this blindingly-easy-to-scam flagging system was to clean up DT's keyword mess by low cost crowdsourcing, rather than by DT paying competent people to review millions of images.    So maybe they're just paying the 2 cents rather than spending any time actually checking out the reported keywords.   

red

« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2011, 17:40 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.

Only if you assume DT actually reviews the flagging in a meaningful way.  Remember, the whole point of this blindingly-easy-to-scam flagging system was to clean up DT's keyword mess by low cost crowdsourcing, rather than by DT paying competent people to review millions of images.    So maybe they're just paying the 2 cents rather than spending any time actually checking out the reported keywords.  

Yes, they review the flagging reports. They have hired special keyword reviewers (some are keymasters - you can have them keyword your images if you don't want to do it yourself, for a fee). These bad keyword reviewers check the reports for errors or borderline problems. And, they are lenient and favor the photographer if the word is associated with the image in any way. If there is blatant flagging the person doing the flagging gets a warning and may even have his portfolio frozen or suspended. You wouldn't believe some of the correctly reported wrong words in the titles, descriptions and keywords. I think it's done well.

« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2011, 18:01 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time? 

red

« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2011, 19:46 »
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Yep, wasting their time. The recent change in how image flags are reviewed was not officially announced so perhaps the flag spammers don't know that they will get caught or don't read the forums. Or, perhaps they legitimately believe that they are reporting bad keywords because they may not understand english all that well or are not connecting valid words together since keywords are listed alphabetically and phrases are split up.

RacePhoto

« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2011, 23:22 »
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Yep, wasting their time. The recent change in how image flags are reviewed was not officially announced so perhaps the flag spammers don't know that they will get caught or don't read the forums. Or, perhaps they legitimately believe that they are reporting bad keywords because they may not understand english all that well or are not connecting valid words together since keywords are listed alphabetically and phrases are split up.


You mean wasting time reporting them? "cetacean whale animal blue aquatic fish" and the image is? Want me to check back in six months and see if it's still the same along with the other images this person has of bottles of wine with the same words mixed in? (just one example)

What about these? And the same point, not to pick on this person, it's just a quick and easy example of keyword spam.

anniversary bar blue branch fountain gathering grotesque humorous painting passion pouring restaurant ripe setting table water wineglass winery

red

« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2011, 09:26 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2011, 14:02 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

This sounds/read like you have knowledge of internal working or DT........  8)

« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2011, 14:09 »
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A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio.
I've already flagged one image and said there are more like that fromthe same contributor (there is a field for entering a message, isn't it?).

WarrenPrice

« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2011, 14:53 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

This sounds/read like you have knowledge of internal working or DT........  8)

Yes it does.  And makes me wonder how many of our MSG peers are reviewers at other sites.  I know of one who "used to be." 

Just wondering who to suck up to.   ;D ;D ;D

red

« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2011, 16:51 »
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Maybe, maybe not but you can suck up to me if you want to. I accept all offers of beer, or chocolate (or both). I'm mainly a buyer who has had a lot of communication with several DT admin who have always been courteous and who take the time to reply if they are not being yelled at or whined to. It helps to send emails on Romanian time during the day.

lisafx

« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2011, 17:22 »
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I've had a lot of bogus flags, particularly recently from the same guy who is trolling my portfolio daily.  Apparently he thinks he is going to pay his rent with .02 payments accumulated by incorrectly flagging my images.   ::)

But I did get a flag the other day that was absolutely correct.  It was one of my earliest submissions of a plant that I had incorrectly identified as being part of the venus flytrap family.  The guy flagged the term venus flytrap.  What was interesting is that I noticed he had flagged the same term over two years ago, and it was never reviewed or removed.  I felt so bad for the guy!  I wrote him to apologize and let him know I was going to remove the term (which I immediately did). 

So anyway, I thought it was strange that this same image had been flagged, by the same guy, for the same words, over two years ago and never reviewed...

helix7

« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2011, 10:45 »
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Got another ridiculous flag today. The keyword "school building" was flagged for an image of a school building.

I get the need for flagging and allowing people to keep the search system as clean as possible. I wouldn't suggest doing away with flags. I just can't help wondering if the payment incentive for flagging is making people randomly flag images in the hopes that some of these will actually get (incorrectly) approved as invalid keywords.

Has anyone ever gotten a response to a flag reply? As much as it's often a waste of time, I often politely reply with an explanation for the keyword choice. Usually all that needs to be said is that the keyword in question clearly describes the image. But I've never heard anything back after that for any image, nor have I ever been informed that a flag was approved by a reviewer.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2011, 12:25 »
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Got another ridiculous flag today. The keyword "school building" was flagged for an image of a school building.

I get the need for flagging and allowing people to keep the search system as clean as possible. I wouldn't suggest doing away with flags. I just can't help wondering if the payment incentive for flagging is making people randomly flag images in the hopes that some of these will actually get (incorrectly) approved as invalid keywords.

Has anyone ever gotten a response to a flag reply? As much as it's often a waste of time, I often politely reply with an explanation for the keyword choice. Usually all that needs to be said is that the keyword in question clearly describes the image. But I've never heard anything back after that for any image, nor have I ever been informed that a flag was approved by a reviewer.

Proceed with caution.  I'm banned from the forum for complaining too loudly ... about this very subject.   ::) :o ;D

red

« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2011, 13:22 »
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As has been said before, the flag is often hit by mistake, it's just a red "x" which can be confusing. If the flag was a mistake, and in your example it clearly was, it will go through a review process and the flag will be rejected and you will never get a notification. You would be surprised at how many really, really bad keywords there are that need to be flagged and aren't (well, I don't think anyone would be truly surprised). An image might be flagged for one bad word but have 10 totally irrelevant words (downtown New York with the word Paris and Singapore, a pretty girl in blue jeans with the word businesswoman and finance, a maple leaf with the word daffodil and sunset, etc.). These are removed too when reported, not just the word that was flagged. It is at the prerogative of the keymasters. If there is a irrelevant word in the title or description that also gets changed when the image is reviewed because of a bad keyword report. I think it's a good thing.

RacePhoto

« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2011, 14:05 »
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But the problem is we get people with flags where there's nothing wrong. Then when someone does flag an image, nothing happens. These three have been flagged, in July and DT did nothing.

So what's the point? Harrasing users who do the right thing or actually doing something when there's a report? I think it's a waste of time.


red

« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2011, 14:26 »
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There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

RacePhoto

« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2011, 14:44 »
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There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

Sad because the part that would trouble me isn't the slow response to actual spam, there's some much to get through, but the honest people who are being tagged. If what people here are saying is true, maybe the poor Keymasters should have the power to start suspending people, a weeks vacation would be fair, not anything horrible, so they lose income and so everyone realizes that spamming the Keyword reporting, trying to hurt the reputation of others, will hurt. You can tell when someone hits a wrong key now and then and when someone goes out to cause trouble.

Then when the word gets out, they will stop! Or get a longer vacation...  :D

To tell the truth, for 2c I can't be bothered, this whole program based on money, is poorly conceived.

You will agree however that the obvious, there are no fish, whales, or animals, and nothing blue. It wasn't like someone slipped in one word. The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 14:46 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2011, 16:03 »
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It is very easy to make a mistake, and hit the wrong button since they are next to each other. I tested it now after finding a blatant mistake, and if you hit the red cross you only get a text explaining the system, and an OK-button to press. There is no way to "regret" or "cancel".

I think most of those that use this system either think they are correct in reporting mistakes, or have clicked the wrong symbol.

red

« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2011, 18:09 »
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The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!

The problem is that you can go in and add or delete keywords at any time to any of your images on DT after it has been accepted. But, I agree, many brand new images are loaded with lousy keywords. I wonder if the reviewers only look at the pics and not the keywords or are not as fluent in english as the keymasters - two different sets of people.

RacePhoto

« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2011, 21:40 »
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The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!

The problem is that you can go in and add or delete keywords at any time to any of your images on DT after it has been accepted. But, I agree, many brand new images are loaded with lousy keywords. I wonder if the reviewers only look at the pics and not the keywords or are not as fluent in english as the keymasters - two different sets of people.

And for Gaja there's the answer. Once approved go back and fix it.

Let me go in another direction. You are right reviewers aren't responsible when someone changes the words. I shouldn't be blaming them.

How about a Notification button for the seller that they have made a mistake or need to look at the keywords? We don't need to be reported to "teacher" or create a problem. Most people will want to make the words better, because it helps all of us. Having the fish and whale things on the wine, I'd suspect someone just had a word hangover, not intentional.

Make it easy to tell them and the reward we are helping each other. Then if nothing changes in say 60 days, another option, second notice, to report the image. But not report first and waste the Keyword Masters time. The same people could probably be reviewing files instead.

« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2011, 00:07 »
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There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

Sad because the part that would trouble me isn't the slow response to actual spam, there's some much to get through, but the honest people who are being tagged. If what people here are saying is true, maybe the poor Keymasters should have the power to start suspending people, a weeks vacation would be fair, not anything horrible, so they lose income and so everyone realizes that spamming the Keyword reporting, trying to hurt the reputation of others, will hurt. You can tell when someone hits a wrong key now and then and when someone goes out to cause trouble.

Then when the word gets out, they will stop! Or get a longer vacation...  :D


They do - if you flag images incorrectly your flagging ability is suspended, period - once again people are complaining about something that only impacts them if they are spammers - having an image flagged means NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP unless you have spammed your keywords.

I always get the feeling that people moan about this because their egos get involved - would someone, anyone explain to me how having an image flagged hurts you? Please I really want to know how are you negatively impacted?

Wim

« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2011, 02:17 »
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Someone flagged "paint can" in an image of a paint can the other day  ::)

Yay for flagging! she probably hit the wrong button though since she's a member since 2006 and no portfolio so I reckon a buyer.


 

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