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Author Topic: DT, is flagging images!!  (Read 18698 times)

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lagereek

« on: June 21, 2011, 11:43 »
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Jeez, I wasnt even aware of that and in the same manner as IS, used to do, letting fellow members flagging them for faulty keywording?  I thought that scheme went out with the dark ages.

Its a bit worrying though. IS, stopped it simply because it can lend itself to abuse, especisally when fellow members are involved.
Surprises me this is still going on?


« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2011, 11:50 »
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Someone flagged my medical cannabis edibles for improper keywords not long ago.  The edibles were a chocolate chip brownie and a 7 layer bar.  He flagged the keywords "chocolate" and "bar" as spam.  Um...hello?  Yes, I realize the photo does not show a chocolate bar, but...good grief.   ::)

WarrenPrice

« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 12:02 »
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Someone flagged my medical cannabis edibles for improper keywords not long ago.  The edibles were a chocolate chip brownie and a 7 layer bar.  He flagged the keywords "chocolate" and "bar" as spam.  Um...hello?  Yes, I realize the photo does not show a chocolate bar, but...good grief.   ::)

I got one yesterday.  There is an ongoing thread at DT about this.  It gets ridiculous.  As long as "Concept" is a category there will be controversial keywords.
Also, the inability to use "phrases" as keywords leads to misunderstanding.
Mine was flagged for "campfire"  The image is a Yurt in a campground with large "campfire ring" in the foreground.

This flagging activity seems to run in cycles.  Someone gets a hair up their ... and away we go.  I'm just ignoring this one. 

« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 12:07 »
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I got the same flag about "chocolate bar," and probably from the same guy. He just doesn't understand how the system works. At all. But that's okay, because I don't think admins even pay attention to the flags anymore.

dbvirago

« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 12:25 »
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That's been going on for a while and like someone said is up and down. Everyone that I have got was wrong, I ignored it, and there was zero impact. Waste of time.

« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 12:29 »
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Someone flagged keyword "spaghetti" on my image of spaghetti.  ???

RT


« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 12:43 »
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Someone flagged keyword "spaghetti" on my image of spaghetti.  ???

My last one was a close up of a woman's mouth and the guy flagged the keyword "lips"

Like many of Dreamstime's policies this seems to be relevant only to those living in a parallel universe.

« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 13:19 »
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".....on the contrary case, if at review time the image info still includes the keywords reported, editing rights are blocked and the person who reports bad info receives $0.02."

They should add to guidelines that someone who would send  "accidental or incorrect reports" for a third time will be shot.

lisafx

« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 13:31 »
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If it's any comfort, it takes years for a reviewer to get around to reviewing the flags.  Also, if you reply to the flag with a note about why the keyword is relevant, it won't be likely to get removed. 

I have only very rarely had a keyword actually removed as a result of a DT flag, and in those cases it was older images with words that actually needed to be removed. 

« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 13:39 »
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On the flip side I had the occasion to use DT as a buyer for a client of mine a month ago and was shocked and incredibly frustrated at the poor use of keywords on the system... 

The keywords I did flag were exceptionally tenuous at best and down right ridiculous at worst, I have to say that if I were to be a regular buyer I would possibly look at other stock providors to see if there were any other sites that did not leave me trawlling through vast quantities of images that had no relevance to the search I was making.

lisafx

« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 14:19 »
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Part of the issue has to do with the way keyphrases are handled.  For example, I had a picture of a veggie platter flagged for the words "snow" and "baby".  

I am sure anyone looking for a picture of a baby in the snow would be horrified to find a picture of crudite.  However, someone looking for "baby carrots" and "snow peas" (which were the keyphrases I used, and clearly visible in the image) would have been perfectly happy to find my image among their results.  

« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 14:31 »
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I got them just a couple of times long ago, and one recently. I must admit it was a correct one - I copied/pasted words from another image and forgotten to remove a few that were not appropriate.

« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 15:16 »
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When my picture of the Brooklyn Bridge was flagged for the keywords 'Brooklyn Bridge' I responded immediately, needless to say I never got a reply and no keywords were removed. Perhaps I should have sent them an airline ticket to New York and arranged a tour of the famous landmark!  ;)

dbvirago

« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2011, 15:32 »
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So you're the guy I've always heard about trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 16:28 »
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I had one yesterday, I kind of enjoyed it, people have not got much to do, I feel bad for them but 99% are helping me so :)

« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 17:21 »
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So you're the guy I've always heard about trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

I'll make you a very nice price  8) lol

« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 17:39 »
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So you're the guy I've always heard about trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

I'll make you a very nice price  8) lol
;D

« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 18:40 »
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It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 18:07 »
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Not at all!!!! What if your fellow togs are eejits and are messing up the experience for the buyer?

It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

Caz

« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 06:39 »
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Its a bit worrying though. IS, stopped it simply because it can lend itself to abuse, especisally when fellow members are involved.
Surprises me this is still going on?

iStock still has the wiki facility, nothing changed.

« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 06:48 »
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It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

Not when some of my fellow photographers try to cheat the system. Keyword your images correctly and you won't have to worry about being snitched on!

lagereek

« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 07:34 »
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It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

Not when some of my fellow photographers try to cheat the system. Keyword your images correctly and you won't have to worry about being snitched on!

and who is to say whats correct?  somebody just sitting there making themselves busy?

lisafx

« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2011, 09:42 »
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It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

Not when some of my fellow photographers try to cheat the system. Keyword your images correctly and you won't have to worry about being snitched on!

Agree.  There is a lot of abuse in keywording.  I think it's okay to flag the images when there is obvious spam.

The people who flag essential and relevant keywords on images just because they show up ahead of theirs in a search....well those people are another story  ::)

« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2011, 09:47 »
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Agree.  There is a lot of abuse in keywording.  I think it's okay to flag the images when there is obvious spam.

The people who flag essential and relevant keywords on images just because they show up ahead of theirs in a search....well those people are another story  ::)

+1

« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 09:53 »
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It's simply bad taste to snitch on your fellow photographers.

Not when some of my fellow photographers try to cheat the system. Keyword your images correctly and you won't have to worry about being snitched on!

Instead of being judgemental, why not send a polite reminder to the photographer?

Years ago, when I was with Dreamstime, some angry photographers were bashing a non-English speaking photographer for using a non-English word as a keyword for a tulip field photo. I happened to read in the news that a yearly tulip festival was held in that city which was the keyword, and it was a big local thing. It may not make sense to those people who never heard of that word and didn't know it was a city, but it makes sense to the buyers who are looking to promote tourism or tulip festival in that region.

That being said, some people do use incorrect keywords, sometimes due to lack of specific knowledge or English language skills. If you have the time, be nice and let that person know, you may just make a grateful friend while keeping your blood pressure under control.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 09:56 by Freedom »

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 11:18 »
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I had a picture flagged a few months ago for the word "paper" in a picture of a letter

They say: "If the flag is irrelevant or accidental, please ignore or reply politely" and when the "offending" word is absolutely acceptable, it's easier to ignore than reply politely

WarrenPrice

« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 11:56 »
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I think we all agree that spamming is annoying.  I'm just not so sure that we all agree on what spamming is.  The Dreamstime program gets controversial because it is a bit like "Iron Curtain" days, pitting neighbor against neighbor.  Conflict is inevitable.  An agency keeping such a large portion of the revenue should certainly take responsibility for reviewing submissions;  keywords is a part of reviewing.  It is the agencies job. 

red

« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 12:11 »
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Yes, reviewers should check keywords when the image is uploaded. However, they also provide the option to the contributor of going in at any time and adding/changing keywords. I guess they don't have the time to review every resubmission of keywords because the originally checked keywords were fine. It's all well and good to send a note to a photog if a bad keyword is found but buyers won't take the time to do that, they will simply hit the flag button (if they even take the time to do that much).

« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 13:27 »
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Quote
"I believe humans get a lot done, not because we're smart, but because
we have thumbs so we can make coffee."  Flash Rosenberg

Love your quote, cuppacoffee!  :D

helix7

« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 19:17 »
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100% of the keyword flags I've gotten at DT have been ridiculous. Things like "world" being flagged for a vector image of (you guessed it) the world.

I'm fine with getting some constructive criticism of my keywording if it's appropriate, but so far I have yet to see any valid flags come through at DT.

« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 20:34 »
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I only remember of one flagging in my images, and it was one case of a combined word in which one of the words did not make sense in separate. I have reported bad keywords in a few occasions, keywords that were obviously spam, not just questionable. I also tried to suggest new keywords to them.

« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2011, 18:02 »
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I have about 3 flagged images out of my portfolio of 1000.  It really annoys me that someone would do this to a fellow photography for the gratification of .02.   I think differently about those people!!

red

« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2011, 18:42 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2011, 21:22 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

Yea they are Dreamstime photographers.   I looked at each of their portfolios.  I know keywords abuse is a little rampant and must be a pain for customers.  I use Acur's keyword page using the top selling shutterstock images.  For similar images I always have to remove 10-20 keywords that have very little to with the image.   But it just rubs me the wrong way for a fellow microstocker to force me to go back to the image to pull a keyword or two so that I can keep my image on Dreamstime.  It makes me want to inspect all of their images to see if I can find some bad keywords....maybe start a keyword war!!!!

« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2011, 03:35 »
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Yea they are Dreamstime photographers.   I looked at each of their portfolios.  [/quote][/i]

Many buyers are also photographers - like me - in fact I buy up to hundreds of images a month yet also have a portfolio of nearly 600 images. What i will tell you is how annoying it is as a buyer to have to wade through images that have been carelessly keyworded - it wastes my time and that simply is neither fair nor good business.

I have no idea why people get so upset about having their images flagged - it does not effect you one iota unless you are actuallly spamming - so what are you complaining about? So somebody flags your image - so what - explain to me why it matters?

rinderart

« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2011, 14:08 »
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That's been going on for a while and like someone said is up and down. Everyone that I have got was wrong, I ignored it, and there was zero impact. Waste of time.

Correct.

« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2011, 16:14 »
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The issue is complicated keywords. First I think there are a lot of spam. But if the reviewers of the banks themselves sometimes contradict, what criteria will be an outsider?

I think the DT system is a mistake because encourages clowns who want to lose time. Banks have a consistency (ok, more or less), and photographer, is another.
An example. If someone searches for Salvador Dali, is an overview of the village of Cadaqus, where he lived all his life. The town was very important to him. I think we should leave that image in Dal. If someone wants to do a story about the painter, will have to appear Cadaqus. This can not know one person who does not know the artist or the people. It is the responsibility of the photographer and the image bank. No one else.
But that does not make sense is that someone complained that the picture below, have bad keywords beach and nobody.
I think the DT system is wrong and a waste of time.

« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2011, 18:19 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.


Yea they are Dreamstime photographers.   I looked at each of their portfolios.  I know keywords abuse is a little rampant and must be a pain for customers.  I use Acur's keyword page using the top selling shutterstock images.  For similar images I always have to remove 10-20 keywords that have very little to with the image.   But it just rubs me the wrong way for a fellow microstocker to force me to go back to the image to pull a keyword or two so that I can keep my image on Dreamstime.  It makes me want to inspect all of their images to see if I can find some bad keywords....maybe start a keyword war!!!!


Not all are photographers.  The last two flags I got (which are totally dumb ass flags) the flagger had no port.  I wonder of they get paid if no change is relevant.  As for being polite when you respond to unfounded flags, fk em.  They weren't polite when they intentionally flagged my images.  I mean, "pen" for a pen?  I say to this person (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info) and this loser (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info).  Give me a * break.

« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2011, 19:56 »
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Not all are photographers.  The last two flags I got (which are totally dumb ass flags) the flagger had no port.  I wonder of they get paid if no change is relevant.  As for being polite when you respond to unfounded flags, fk em.  They weren't polite when they intentionally flagged my images.  I mean, "pen" for a pen?  I say to this person (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info) and this loser (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info).  Give me a  break.


But why are you so threatened by it? Is it that someone dares to question you? If the flagger is abusing the system then Dreamstime revokes their ability to flag images - if they are right in their flags - which are reviewed by editors - then they are providing a service that makes D-time a better place for buyers. So why are you so hostile when there is no impact on you unless you are spamming? Honestly I do not understand why people take this so personally and why it creates such hostility.  

« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2011, 14:23 »
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I got flagged a few times.  They flagged old images from the times I just started keywording and I have to admit they were absolutely right to flag them!  I think I removed more than 40% of the keywords while cleaning up.

« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2011, 17:50 »
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Not all are photographers.  The last two flags I got (which are totally dumb ass flags) the flagger had no port.  I wonder of they get paid if no change is relevant.  As for being polite when you respond to unfounded flags, fk em.  They weren't polite when they intentionally flagged my images.  I mean, "pen" for a pen?  I say to this person (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info) and this loser (http://www.dreamstime.com/bobby0315_info).  Give me a  break.


But why are you so threatened by it? Is it that someone dares to question you? If the flagger is abusing the system then Dreamstime revokes their ability to flag images - if they are right in their flags - which are reviewed by editors - then they are providing a service that makes D-time a better place for buyers. So why are you so hostile when there is no impact on you unless you are spamming? Honestly I do not understand why people take this so personally and why it creates such hostility.  


You don't see to get it.  I am not threatened by it at all.  When they flag relevant keywords as irrelevant it wastes my time and theirs.  The flagger is factually abusing the DT system in most cases, and I am asked to respond to that person politely when they are blatantly flagging good keywords.  The tone of your response is that I am the one who should be grateful.  Wrong.

RacePhoto

« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2011, 20:29 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

Does anyone get anything for flagging images? I've never seen any payments and the flags seem to be ignored by DT. Maybe they should just turn it off.

Here's another way that it can be a problem. Say someone is upset because they are spamming their keywords and they don't like the system, They go and send phoney flags all over the place to screw up the system, so it will be shut off.

All kinds of problems. I'd say, DT and everyone else should have some sort of periodic review or a person who randomly looks once a week for abuse, and when they find it. Send out a real and personal warning. If it happens again or isn't addressed, then restrict the account, if that doesn't work, remove the artist. A rule with some teeth, not just looking the other way. But the turn in a "friend" plan is dumb and I don't know anyone who got 2 cents for it?

red

« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2011, 23:29 »
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There is a backlog of flagged images that need to be reviewed by their admin team. They've put this at the end of their "to do" list but reports are being reviewed and yes, people do get the 2 cents if the report is valid. Also, anyone can report a contributor for many bad keywords on all of their images with a simple email to support and they will get back to them after reviewing the bad portfolio. If it is a problem of someone just not being familiar with english they give the contributor a chance to review their own keywords but put their portfolio on hold as they do that. Contributors do get suspended if there is rampant abuse and they don't make an effort to fix their mistakes.

You can't screw up the system because all bad keyword reports go into a queue and phony reports are spotted right away by the keyword reviewers (they have special admins assigned just to review keywords and more staff has recently been added). Those phony reports get the person who is making those reports suspended along with a "real and personal" warning. I am not aware of any "turn in a friend" plan as there are safeguards in place for every bad keyword report and people who might be doing it out of spite are spotted quickly. Any method of cleaning up lousy keywords is a good idea in my opinion and this system is better than most.

« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2011, 07:44 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

Does anyone get anything for flagging images?

Yea, if you don't do anything about the flag and it reaches the DT review team and they find that your keyword is indeed wrong, the flagger gets .02 cents.  And your image gets locked from you doing any further editing on it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 07:50 by Mantis »

eggshell

« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2011, 08:27 »
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Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

Does anyone get anything for flagging images?

Yea, if you don't do anything about the flag and it reaches the DT review team and they find that your keyword is indeed wrong, the flagger gets .02 cents.

... and the contributor can no longer edit the keywords for the flagged image .

WarrenPrice

« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2011, 13:47 »
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‎"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." --James Madison, speech at the Virginia Ratifying Convention, 1788

RacePhoto

« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2011, 14:20 »
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Thanks all three for the information. I know I had some files locked for bad keywords and for anyone who knows my view, less is more, I only have commons words of things that are obviously the center of the image subject. I mean eight words or maybe ten? The whole program is kind of stupid.

The reason I mentioned the 2 cents, which is less than exciting as well, is I hit some images, while searching for some of mine, which the keywords included, didn't exist at all. Lets say, "girl on bicycle", and there was no girl and no bicycle. I wasn't nit picking tricycles marked as bicycle or stupid little things. These were way out and probably just an error where wrong keywords were applied to a batch of images.

Meanwhile I never got 2 cents for my excellent efforts and sharp eyes. ;) Don't know if the seller ever got notification or if it just went into the everlasting long line, waiting for review.

I still think there's room for abuse but hearing that people who post false alerts could also be suspended, makes me happier.


Are you sure it is a fellow photographer? Could it be a buyer hitting the "report this image" button? Anyone can flag, not only contributors. Do you really think someone would do that for .02 cents? Hitting that button is fast and easy and doesn't require sending a message, which takes time. If the reporter is registered they are automatically awarded the .02 cents, they have no say in if they want it or not and probably don't even know that they are getting a monetary amount as it is not common knowledge unless you read the forums on a regular basis. If the report is bogus, just leave a message, it is reviewed before any changes are made. Not a big deal.

Does anyone get anything for flagging images?

Yea, if you don't do anything about the flag and it reaches the DT review team and they find that your keyword is indeed wrong, the flagger gets .02 cents.

... and the contributor can no longer edit the keywords for the flagged image .

« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2011, 15:12 »
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My image is flagged by a person who's stats are:

Uploaded files:    0
Total sales:   0
Portfolio exposure:   0%
Database exposure:   0%
Message boards:    0
Monthly uploads:    0.00 average
Uploads this month:    0

I mean... seriously!? Maybe someone joined DT just to earn 2 cents for every flagged image.... :D

It could be a buyer too. I just don't know if buyers accounts look the same as contributor's accounts.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 15:15 by Dreamframer »

« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2011, 15:49 »
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My image is flagged by a person who's stats are:

Uploaded files:    0
Total sales:   0
Portfolio exposure:   0%
Database exposure:   0%
Message boards:    0
Monthly uploads:    0.00 average
Uploads this month:    0

I mean... seriously!? Maybe someone joined DT just to earn 2 cents for every flagged image.... :D

It could be a buyer too. I just don't know if buyers accounts look the same as contributor's accounts.
The buyers accounts do look the same as contributors accounts and I suspect that mostly they have just pressed the flag button instead of lightbox button

« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2011, 19:41 »
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ALL of mine are from people in poor countries.  Not trying to start anything here, just telling you that they are from India and other world regions where 2 cents added up times 10,000 = a lot by some of their standards.  And what pisses me off the most is that DT is asking US contributors to be nice to the flagger if we get flagged.  I had two more worthless flags today. Fk em.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 19:44 by Mantis »

« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2011, 21:19 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.

« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2011, 06:26 »
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A few month ago someone flagged one of my photos of a guard in Buckingham Palace for using key word "buckingham palace". I replied the guard is a Buckingham Palace guard and asked what is the problem with that. Yesterday I got another photo flagged for keyword "england" and the photo is "Rolling hills in the Lake District of England" in the title and summary.

I don't want to be rude so I'd better stop writting any more....

dbvirago

« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2011, 14:48 »
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Does anyone know how to mark all messages as read? Some industrious person has done me the courtesy of flagging about 50 of my images. They are all close ups of faces, so I'm not sure what the keyword problem is. I clicked on both links in the message but couldn't find the keyword problem - and frankly I don't have any intention of looking through 50 images to find out. Many images are over 5 years old.

« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2011, 15:16 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.

Only if you assume DT actually reviews the flagging in a meaningful way.  Remember, the whole point of this blindingly-easy-to-scam flagging system was to clean up DT's keyword mess by low cost crowdsourcing, rather than by DT paying competent people to review millions of images.    So maybe they're just paying the 2 cents rather than spending any time actually checking out the reported keywords.   

red

« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2011, 17:40 »
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They only get the 2c after DT reviews the flagging, so they only earn the 2c if they are right.

Only if you assume DT actually reviews the flagging in a meaningful way.  Remember, the whole point of this blindingly-easy-to-scam flagging system was to clean up DT's keyword mess by low cost crowdsourcing, rather than by DT paying competent people to review millions of images.    So maybe they're just paying the 2 cents rather than spending any time actually checking out the reported keywords.  

Yes, they review the flagging reports. They have hired special keyword reviewers (some are keymasters - you can have them keyword your images if you don't want to do it yourself, for a fee). These bad keyword reviewers check the reports for errors or borderline problems. And, they are lenient and favor the photographer if the word is associated with the image in any way. If there is blatant flagging the person doing the flagging gets a warning and may even have his portfolio frozen or suspended. You wouldn't believe some of the correctly reported wrong words in the titles, descriptions and keywords. I think it's done well.

« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2011, 18:01 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time? 

red

« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2011, 19:46 »
0
Yep, wasting their time. The recent change in how image flags are reviewed was not officially announced so perhaps the flag spammers don't know that they will get caught or don't read the forums. Or, perhaps they legitimately believe that they are reporting bad keywords because they may not understand english all that well or are not connecting valid words together since keywords are listed alphabetically and phrases are split up.

RacePhoto

« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2011, 23:22 »
0
Yep, wasting their time. The recent change in how image flags are reviewed was not officially announced so perhaps the flag spammers don't know that they will get caught or don't read the forums. Or, perhaps they legitimately believe that they are reporting bad keywords because they may not understand english all that well or are not connecting valid words together since keywords are listed alphabetically and phrases are split up.


You mean wasting time reporting them? "cetacean whale animal blue aquatic fish" and the image is? Want me to check back in six months and see if it's still the same along with the other images this person has of bottles of wine with the same words mixed in? (just one example)

What about these? And the same point, not to pick on this person, it's just a quick and easy example of keyword spam.

anniversary bar blue branch fountain gathering grotesque humorous painting passion pouring restaurant ripe setting table water wineglass winery

red

« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2011, 09:26 »
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Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2011, 14:02 »
0
Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

This sounds/read like you have knowledge of internal working or DT........  8)

« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2011, 14:09 »
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A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio.
I've already flagged one image and said there are more like that fromthe same contributor (there is a field for entering a message, isn't it?).

WarrenPrice

« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2011, 14:53 »
0
Ok but if DT is properly reviewing the flagging, then why are people (obviously) still trying to scam it?   Are they just wasting their time?  

No, I meant that the people that stockastic believes are wrongly reporting images just to try and scam for money are wasting their time because bogus flag reports/reporters are discovered quickly. Those reporting valid bad keywords are not wasting their time and eventually all reported images will be reviewed. Believe me, the backlog is enormous and there are many examples such as the one you are highlighting that are in the queue. You did report those didn't you? A tip, if you run across a contributor with many such images with bad keywords don't take the time to hit the bad keyword flag just send the user's name and a link to his/her portfolio with a list of some of the image IDs and say that there are many more and they will send the portfolio to a higher level reviewer to check the entire portfolio. I've done it with good results. As a buyer, these types of images only clog up my search results. Or, create a lightbox with images with obviously wrong keywords and send it to a specific admin like Carmen or Tangie. They will forward it to a special reviewer.

This sounds/read like you have knowledge of internal working or DT........  8)

Yes it does.  And makes me wonder how many of our MSG peers are reviewers at other sites.  I know of one who "used to be." 

Just wondering who to suck up to.   ;D ;D ;D

red

« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2011, 16:51 »
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Maybe, maybe not but you can suck up to me if you want to. I accept all offers of beer, or chocolate (or both). I'm mainly a buyer who has had a lot of communication with several DT admin who have always been courteous and who take the time to reply if they are not being yelled at or whined to. It helps to send emails on Romanian time during the day.

lisafx

« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2011, 17:22 »
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I've had a lot of bogus flags, particularly recently from the same guy who is trolling my portfolio daily.  Apparently he thinks he is going to pay his rent with .02 payments accumulated by incorrectly flagging my images.   ::)

But I did get a flag the other day that was absolutely correct.  It was one of my earliest submissions of a plant that I had incorrectly identified as being part of the venus flytrap family.  The guy flagged the term venus flytrap.  What was interesting is that I noticed he had flagged the same term over two years ago, and it was never reviewed or removed.  I felt so bad for the guy!  I wrote him to apologize and let him know I was going to remove the term (which I immediately did). 

So anyway, I thought it was strange that this same image had been flagged, by the same guy, for the same words, over two years ago and never reviewed...

helix7

« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2011, 10:45 »
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Got another ridiculous flag today. The keyword "school building" was flagged for an image of a school building.

I get the need for flagging and allowing people to keep the search system as clean as possible. I wouldn't suggest doing away with flags. I just can't help wondering if the payment incentive for flagging is making people randomly flag images in the hopes that some of these will actually get (incorrectly) approved as invalid keywords.

Has anyone ever gotten a response to a flag reply? As much as it's often a waste of time, I often politely reply with an explanation for the keyword choice. Usually all that needs to be said is that the keyword in question clearly describes the image. But I've never heard anything back after that for any image, nor have I ever been informed that a flag was approved by a reviewer.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2011, 12:25 »
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Got another ridiculous flag today. The keyword "school building" was flagged for an image of a school building.

I get the need for flagging and allowing people to keep the search system as clean as possible. I wouldn't suggest doing away with flags. I just can't help wondering if the payment incentive for flagging is making people randomly flag images in the hopes that some of these will actually get (incorrectly) approved as invalid keywords.

Has anyone ever gotten a response to a flag reply? As much as it's often a waste of time, I often politely reply with an explanation for the keyword choice. Usually all that needs to be said is that the keyword in question clearly describes the image. But I've never heard anything back after that for any image, nor have I ever been informed that a flag was approved by a reviewer.

Proceed with caution.  I'm banned from the forum for complaining too loudly ... about this very subject.   ::) :o ;D

red

« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2011, 13:22 »
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As has been said before, the flag is often hit by mistake, it's just a red "x" which can be confusing. If the flag was a mistake, and in your example it clearly was, it will go through a review process and the flag will be rejected and you will never get a notification. You would be surprised at how many really, really bad keywords there are that need to be flagged and aren't (well, I don't think anyone would be truly surprised). An image might be flagged for one bad word but have 10 totally irrelevant words (downtown New York with the word Paris and Singapore, a pretty girl in blue jeans with the word businesswoman and finance, a maple leaf with the word daffodil and sunset, etc.). These are removed too when reported, not just the word that was flagged. It is at the prerogative of the keymasters. If there is a irrelevant word in the title or description that also gets changed when the image is reviewed because of a bad keyword report. I think it's a good thing.

RacePhoto

« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2011, 14:05 »
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But the problem is we get people with flags where there's nothing wrong. Then when someone does flag an image, nothing happens. These three have been flagged, in July and DT did nothing.

So what's the point? Harrasing users who do the right thing or actually doing something when there's a report? I think it's a waste of time.


red

« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2011, 14:26 »
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There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

RacePhoto

« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2011, 14:44 »
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There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

Sad because the part that would trouble me isn't the slow response to actual spam, there's some much to get through, but the honest people who are being tagged. If what people here are saying is true, maybe the poor Keymasters should have the power to start suspending people, a weeks vacation would be fair, not anything horrible, so they lose income and so everyone realizes that spamming the Keyword reporting, trying to hurt the reputation of others, will hurt. You can tell when someone hits a wrong key now and then and when someone goes out to cause trouble.

Then when the word gets out, they will stop! Or get a longer vacation...  :D

To tell the truth, for 2c I can't be bothered, this whole program based on money, is poorly conceived.

You will agree however that the obvious, there are no fish, whales, or animals, and nothing blue. It wasn't like someone slipped in one word. The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 14:46 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2011, 16:03 »
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It is very easy to make a mistake, and hit the wrong button since they are next to each other. I tested it now after finding a blatant mistake, and if you hit the red cross you only get a text explaining the system, and an OK-button to press. There is no way to "regret" or "cancel".

I think most of those that use this system either think they are correct in reporting mistakes, or have clicked the wrong symbol.

red

« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2011, 18:09 »
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The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!

The problem is that you can go in and add or delete keywords at any time to any of your images on DT after it has been accepted. But, I agree, many brand new images are loaded with lousy keywords. I wonder if the reviewers only look at the pics and not the keywords or are not as fluent in english as the keymasters - two different sets of people.

RacePhoto

« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2011, 21:40 »
0
The reviewer should be notified when they miss them, that might help? ANd dock them pay... that would make things tighten up really fast!

The problem is that you can go in and add or delete keywords at any time to any of your images on DT after it has been accepted. But, I agree, many brand new images are loaded with lousy keywords. I wonder if the reviewers only look at the pics and not the keywords or are not as fluent in english as the keymasters - two different sets of people.

And for Gaja there's the answer. Once approved go back and fix it.

Let me go in another direction. You are right reviewers aren't responsible when someone changes the words. I shouldn't be blaming them.

How about a Notification button for the seller that they have made a mistake or need to look at the keywords? We don't need to be reported to "teacher" or create a problem. Most people will want to make the words better, because it helps all of us. Having the fish and whale things on the wine, I'd suspect someone just had a word hangover, not intentional.

Make it easy to tell them and the reward we are helping each other. Then if nothing changes in say 60 days, another option, second notice, to report the image. But not report first and waste the Keyword Masters time. The same people could probably be reviewing files instead.

« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2011, 00:07 »
0
There's a tremendous backlog. They didn't get serious about cleaning things up until fairly recently and there are many more from before that date that are first in line. Too many images, too few keymasters.

Sad because the part that would trouble me isn't the slow response to actual spam, there's some much to get through, but the honest people who are being tagged. If what people here are saying is true, maybe the poor Keymasters should have the power to start suspending people, a weeks vacation would be fair, not anything horrible, so they lose income and so everyone realizes that spamming the Keyword reporting, trying to hurt the reputation of others, will hurt. You can tell when someone hits a wrong key now and then and when someone goes out to cause trouble.

Then when the word gets out, they will stop! Or get a longer vacation...  :D


They do - if you flag images incorrectly your flagging ability is suspended, period - once again people are complaining about something that only impacts them if they are spammers - having an image flagged means NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP unless you have spammed your keywords.

I always get the feeling that people moan about this because their egos get involved - would someone, anyone explain to me how having an image flagged hurts you? Please I really want to know how are you negatively impacted?

Wim

« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2011, 02:17 »
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Someone flagged "paint can" in an image of a paint can the other day  ::)

Yay for flagging! she probably hit the wrong button though since she's a member since 2006 and no portfolio so I reckon a buyer.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2011, 09:27 »
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If this is such a great idea, why is DT the only one doing it?

« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2011, 09:52 »
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If this is such a great idea, why is DT the only one doing it?
Because DT is the best.
Explanation : I needed an image of a loving teen couple for a youth magazine a few months ago. On page one I got an image of an isolated plastic duck in a bath tub. I flagged it like hell.
#2 : looking for a girl in dungarees, I got an image of an aircraft carrier. This guy had the decency to reply. He said that he was an ex-marine and the dudes there on those ships were wearing dungarees during his time. Right.

(Check: both images are gone now in those searches)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 10:03 by AttilaTheNun »

WarrenPrice

« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2011, 10:06 »
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Did you comparison shop?  ??? ;D

« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2011, 14:53 »
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Just today I got an image flagged because of a typo and I was  grateful as it was quite an important keyword that was missing from the image.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2011, 16:16 »
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Do you keyword your images for each site individually or have you been able to change the word at other sites?
I think SS runs a spell check on descriptions and keywords?
Of course, iS edits keywords more stringently than most. 
Doesn't Fotolia have a spell check also?

Good that someone was helpful enough to let you know about a misspelling. 

« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2011, 16:59 »
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Do you keyword your images for each site individually or have you been able to change the word at other sites?
I think SS runs a spell check on descriptions and keywords?
Of course, iS edits keywords more stringently than most. 
Doesn't Fotolia have a spell check also?

Good that someone was helpful enough to let you know about a misspelling. 
I meant to write happy and actually wrote nappy which is a word in English(possibly not in america) so it wouldn't have been caught by the spellcheck.

rinderart

« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2011, 12:54 »
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Checking Keywords Is a reviewers job. All of us could do better Im sure But very few if any reviewers take the time to look as they should. They get paid by how many they do, I've always said reviewing is one of the most Important Jobs at any site and until the day comes when a site understands this and pays a fair wage for proper, Educated review teams that First of all know what there looking at and take the time to study the details ie;Keywords This will go on and on.

I reviewed for 3+ years and honestly I didn't see to many out of a few 100 thousand that didn't have some goofy words.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 12:58 by rinderart »

« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2011, 14:39 »
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I've got 2 flags, one was right, one was wrong. I find it annoying, as said before this should be a reviewer's job, who, I think, should be a native English speaker.
For me DT is far from being the best. Ultimately, an agency success is about money. I earn in one day at SS as much as I earn /month at DT and twice more at 123RF... Of all, I like DT the least. Much cry and little wool.

@rinderart, why did you quit?


 

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