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Author Topic: Royalties, subscriptions and SR-EL update on dreamstime  (Read 34487 times)

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WarrenPrice

« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2009, 15:08 »
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This from Achille

Honestly, I think that you either need to be exclusive with us or direct your critique somewhere else.


Every Agency is trying make all contributors Exclusive. 


« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2009, 15:49 »
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From DT forum:

Achilles said:

Don't rush to say it's a big disappointment just because you check the difference for level 1 files. We think that this system rewards older members who provide quality. Check the Excel archives and see how many level 2-5 files you had one year ago and how many you have today. Then see how many downloads you have from those files. You shouldn't count files but downloads.

I do not contribute to DT so this is an observation, why do they have to reward older members, why do IS have canisters, why does SS have different rates, it is all an excuse to pay new contributors less, I have heard the excuse that new contributors assets cost more to get online because of rejections but sourcing a product is a part of the cost to running any business and an image is worth what a buyer will pay.  

I like Alamy each image stands alone and are almost equal in the search, all artists get the same 60% share of a sale, that is the way it should be, the microstock Customers get discounts for buying more credits not for how long they have been buying images, the image sells at the same rate regardless of the photographers percentage.

It is going from a community base where all are equal to a tiered system and we are seeing the elitism and splits that was the downfall of the traditional services.

See a lawyer, but it is written into every contract that you have agreed to, they have the right to change prices, you have the right to close your accounts and walk away and contribute to other agencies, that is a choice you have to make.

B.T.W.
How can they expect anyone go exclusive with an agency that changes photographers payments without any consultation, Alamy have the same terms but give 45 days notice to contributors, which has lead to feedback and a change of policy before, maybe some of the big websites need to do what they are meant to do, that is to facilitate the transaction of your asset to the buyer and not dictate, we are suppliers and also customers that they have to sell thier service to as they are not buying our assets only providing a service.  

David  :(
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 15:52 by Adeptris »

« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2009, 15:51 »
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Dopple post  ::)

« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2009, 16:21 »
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Remembering back to the Fotolia royalty drop, I don't remember too many folks being okay with it.  And I sure didn't see people saying "thank you" for it.

Everyone including me were upset, but the maths showed a positive balance, with a higher RPD.  I haven't done this math lately, but on the first 3 months it meant 10-15% more for me, and May was my best month excluding EL sales.

But in DT's case, the previous credit price increase did not raise my RPD enough to compensate the loss I'm going to have now (20-40% as most images are level 1-3).  I hope I am wrong as I was in FT, but I'm not so sure.

I don't see anyone jumping for joy over this change at DT either.

The exclusives are all saying "Great!"   :D

lisafx

« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2009, 18:29 »
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I don't see anyone jumping for joy over this change at DT either.

The exclusives are all saying "Great!"   :D

Yeah, good point.  :)

For the life of me I can't understand why exclusives at any site are happy to see conditions in micro deteriorate for anyone.  I guess they just don't realize they are ultimately as vulnerable as the rest of us.

I do feel bad for Achilles and DT getting all this heat, frankly.  I think Phil is correct that a lot of the anger is a reaction to the general trend of cutting royalties (and how badly it has been handled elsewhere), rather than to Dreamstime specifically.  First Alamy, then Fotolia, now Dreamstime. 

To be fair to DT, they have probably been at a competitive disadvantage by offering the highest royalties.   From their perspective they must have felt they had to do this. 

At least they announced it well in advance and timed it with the raise in prices to minimize the negative affects.  Not to mention Achilles is in the forums taking questions himself and dealing with contributor concerns.  It is a vast improvement over the poor communication on other sites.

« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2009, 18:44 »
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At least they announced it well in advance and timed it with the raise in prices to minimize the negative affects.  Not to mention Achilles is in the forums taking questions himself and dealing with contributor concerns.  It is a vast improvement over the poor communication on other sites.

This is a good aspect of DT.  I do hope they are right, although I'm not quite optimistic.

« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2009, 20:42 »
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We have to find a way of doing this in an organized way.

Only once. That's how many times we need to succeed. If we manage to sink one agency, (preferably fotolia) the rest will come to us offering %70- 80 percent commission.

The way we are unorganized troops, they will keep getting rich, like they wouldn't be rich enough paying us %70.

It seems strange to me to hear all of the Fotolia-bashing. Yes, they lowered commissions, but they are still my TOP EARNER! More than IS. More than DT. More than SS. EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2009, 21:41 »
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It seems strange to me to hear all of the Fotolia-bashing. Yes, they lowered commissions, but they are still my TOP EARNER! More than IS. More than DT. More than SS. EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

Maybe because your experience isn't one the rest of us share?  Fotolia is consistently in third or fourth place for me.  Except this month, where they're in seventh place thanks to a very large chargeback from an EL sale last month.

As you might put it, they've failed to be my TOP EARNER.  EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2009, 22:04 »
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We have to find a way of doing this in an organized way.

Only once. That's how many times we need to succeed. If we manage to sink one agency, (preferably fotolia) the rest will come to us offering %70- 80 percent commission.

The way we are unorganized troops, they will keep getting rich, like they wouldn't be rich enough paying us %70.

It seems strange to me to hear all of the Fotolia-bashing. Yes, they lowered commissions, but they are still my TOP EARNER! More than IS. More than DT. More than SS. EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

my earnings were rising with them every month, almost made it be my 2nd earner but earnings with them dropped around when they lowered commissions, now they are almost back up to what they were. sat in 3rd place consistently, be a while before they are 2nd

WarrenPrice

« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2009, 15:24 »
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If you are not exclusive but have exclusive images at Dreamstime, you are taking a severe cut on those images.  In my opinion, there is no longer a reason to give Dreamstime exclusive rights to an image. 

All exclusive images at Dreamstime can only be removed from exclusivity by writing to admin.  You must wait 30 days to have those images removed.  I have sent my notification.  Will others join me in expressing our objections in a meaningful way?


« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2009, 12:15 »
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I do this Microstock thing for 3 years now.
One observation, is getting harder and harder, the quality standards increase so much, well this is a good thing I guess, the rejections are higher, now seems DT wants to decrese the percentage for the contributors, FT did some crap some time ago, SS start taking on US sales 30% taxes........where all this will end up for the contributor ?
I wont start now complaining and praise the contributor, but I never saw anything good from all this changes, I just know I have more pictures, better quality, and the sales did not increse accordingly.
I think everybody should look from a  productivity point of view, at the end of the day it all thats matter and compare with 2008 that is way down.
Flip that $1 images is a tough market, and will get harder as the libraries increase databases, the agencies at leaset the big 6 will make money, the buyers are happy for the bargains they get, you will work your bumb off forever unless something changes.
I realised in todays market you can not make it alone, you need to get more people to work for you to do actually something.

This is way to long,
 Ta,ta

WarrenPrice

« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2009, 14:37 »
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I do this Microstock thing for 3 years now.
One observation, is getting harder and harder, the quality standards increase so much, well this is a good thing I guess, the rejections are higher, now seems DT wants to decrese the percentage for the contributors, FT did some crap some time ago, SS start taking on US sales 30% taxes........where all this will end up for the contributor ?
I wont start now complaining and praise the contributor, but I never saw anything good from all this changes, I just know I have more pictures, better quality, and the sales did not increse accordingly.
I think everybody should look from a  productivity point of view, at the end of the day it all thats matter and compare with 2008 that is way down.
Flip that $1 images is a tough market, and will get harder as the libraries increase databases, the agencies at leaset the big 6 will make money, the buyers are happy for the bargains they get, you will work your bumb off forever unless something changes.
I realised in todays market you can not make it alone, you need to get more people to work for you to do actually something.

This is way to long,
 Ta,ta

Excellent point.  I think that is what makes me a hobbiest.  I am old, set in my ways, and don't want any responsibility.  Hope you find some good employees.   8)

lisafx

« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2009, 15:30 »
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Excellent point.  I think that is what makes me a hobbiest.  I am old, set in my ways, and don't want any responsibility.  Hope you find some good employees.   8)

I don't think more employees is the way to go.  If I had to split my income among employees I would end up netting less than I do now, even if you factor in the likely raise in productivity. 

« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2009, 12:39 »
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Hardly good news and this from the Agency that ties you in for six months

I am surprised there have not been more protests about this in their Forum, I for one will be uploading with less vigor and concentrating my efforts elswhere. Despite the spin (sub increase on higher level Files will not come close to compensating for me) it will still result in a substantial financial loss for most Contributers other than perhaps Exclusives.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2009, 13:18 »
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Hardly good news and this from the Agency that ties you in for six months

I am surprised there have not been more protests about this in their Forum, I for one will be uploading with less vigor and concentrating my efforts elswhere. Despite the spin (sub increase on higher level Files will not come close to compensating for me) it will still result in a substantial financial loss for most Contributers other than perhaps Exclusives.

Negative comments on the DT Forum are not well received, iclick.  DT is not quite as defensive as FT but do not miss it by much.  Using my real name helps me be recognized by clients but ... I am also visible to the agencies.  I sometimes wish I had chosen to use a variety of aliases.   :(

« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2009, 11:55 »
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Update by Achilles from DT forum:

Quote
Here are the levels as they are to be launched soon:
Non exclusive images:
level 1: 40%
level 2: 42.5%
level 3: 45%
level 4: 47.5%
level 5: 50%

Exclusive images from non exclusive contributors (+15%):
level 1: 46%
level 2: 48.88%
level 3: 51.75%
level 4: 54.63%
level 5: 57.5%

Exclusive contributors: no change, as announced.
SR-EL recommended prices: change as announced.

Subscriptions are updated as announced in the first post:
level 1: 1 download
level 2: 1 downloads
level 3: 2 downloads
level 4: 2 downloads
level 5: 3 downloads

These will consume the subscription's downloads as above (+royalties) but will not accelerate higher levels. There is significant difference in quality for a level 2 image compared to level 5.

On our next price update, the additional format will cost double the price of a regular subscription download:
level 1: 2 downloads, level 2: 4 downloads, level 3: 4 downloads, level 4: 6 downloads, level 5: 6 downloads
This is a significant price update and can't be included at this stage, due to its impact on buyers.


« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2009, 12:05 »
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That looks better.  Perhaps I will start uploading again now.

« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2009, 12:17 »
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Just read a few pages back in the DT forum and this is just an interim step to the 30% royalties for level 1 images, so I am still annoyed and wont be uploading again.  If they spend more on advertising and increase sales, I might change my mind but for now 30% seems far too low for the money I am making and the time it takes to upload there.

« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2009, 12:25 »
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Okay, they get more money to spend on marketing and advertising. What is that good for? Dreamstime may increase their market share a bit, but that will most likely to decrease our earnings from other sites.

This is like moving money from one pocket to another (and loosing some of it during it)  :-\
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 12:28 by Perry »

« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2009, 12:28 »
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Just read a few pages back in the DT forum and this is just an interim step to the 30% royalties for level 1 images, so I am still annoyed and wont be uploading again.  If they spend more on advertising and increase sales, I might change my mind but for now 30% seems far too low for the money I am making and the time it takes to upload there.

You're missing the point surely? They need to reduce royalties slightly in order to spend more on marketing and compete with all the other major players who have always paid us much smaller commissions.

They've always been as generous as they could be (probably too generous for too long in such a competitive marketplace) and at least they have the decency to tell us what's going on, give us notice of the changes and discuss our questions on the forum __ quite unlike some other agencies.

« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2009, 12:37 »
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Just read a few pages back in the DT forum and this is just an interim step to the 30% royalties for level 1 images, so I am still annoyed and wont be uploading again.  If they spend more on advertising and increase sales, I might change my mind but for now 30% seems far too low for the money I am making and the time it takes to upload there.

You're missing the point surely? They need to reduce royalties slightly in order to spend more on marketing and compete with all the other major players who have always paid us much smaller commissions.

They've always been as generous as they could be (probably too generous for too long in such a competitive marketplace) and at least they have the decency to tell us what's going on, give us notice of the changes and discuss our questions on the forum __ quite unlike some other agencies.
The problem is, I make much less with DT than istock and SS.  It takes me longer to upload there than SS, as they are more fussy with keywords and they reject a lot more.  istock takes even longer to upload to and pay me less commission but I earn over 3x more there.  FT have lowered their commissions but at least I will one day hit the higher levels and can raise my prices.  FT is the highest earning site for some of the big contributors.

If DT do spend more on advertising and my earnings go up, I might accept the commission cut but for now I will wait and see what happens.

lisafx

« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2009, 14:03 »
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They've always been as generous as they could be (probably too generous for too long in such a competitive marketplace) and at least they have the decency to tell us what's going on, give us notice of the changes and discuss our questions on the forum __ quite unlike some other agencies.

Totally agree with this ^^. 

Nobody likes a commission drop, but it is pretty obvious why Dreamstime felt they had to do this, and they have handled it in a much more fair and considerate way than any of the other agencies who have done similar.

« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2009, 17:02 »
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I understand this is a first step, but not necessarily they will go to the lower step.  Did I get it wrong?

« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2009, 17:07 »
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Well, one of my sub sales today was 70 cents which I should be happy for.  I do think subs prices should be based on sizes before popularity though. 

« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2009, 17:22 »
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I understand this is a first step, but not necessarily they will go to the lower step.  Did I get it wrong?
I think so, they are going to 30% for level 1 images.


 

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