pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Apple Pro Res 422 or H.264 for 4k final files?  (Read 4878 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: April 26, 2016, 10:44 »
0
My camera (Sony PXW-X70) has a paid upgrade to 4k and I see is finally scheduled to have a reasonable bitrate at 4k with a firmware update that is due soon.

I'd like to contribute 4k footage going forwards, but need to be a bit realistic about the file sizes.

Since moving to Mac and taking video a bit more seriously, I've been aiming for maximum quality and submitting ProRes 422 files. But now I'm really tempted to submit footage, especially 4k footage, using the H.264 codec.

The way I'm starting to see it is that the ProRes 422 codec is a bit like a 16bit Tiff file. Great for about 1% of the population, but for everyone else an 8bit jpg will do just fine.

Is there any real difference from a quality perspective that a buyer may consider important and impact sales?


« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 16:46 »
+1
Well, as always, it depends. A lot of the more professional aerials that sell like hotcakes for $400 are uploaded in ProRes 422 HQ. I think they are bought by small-big TV Shows, lots and lots of trailers and even Hollywood movies.

For me, the question is 422 vs. 422 HQ... Some clips answer the question for me as they get too big if they're in HQ.

I think it's more of a mystery that the sites convert to h264 when they make HD versions... ProRes is a very good format that withstands multiple compressions very well.

When you buy a picture you often want something that's already perfect in every way without the need to change much, which means a jpg makes sense.

When you buy a video you basically NEVER just use it on its own - it is to be included in a bigger project and it might be necessary to tweak the colors a bit.

Especially for timelapses, where you start with a 12-14-bit clip, a 10-bit ProRes delivery seems reasonable instead of an 8-bit h264. Just make sure you don't go to jpg in between...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 16:52 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 04:29 »
0
Thanks for the explanation. So would a reasonable workflow or explanation look like this . . .

- Files from a camera shooting H.264 like many DSLRs. There is no point to supply Apple Pro Res since this is an 8bit format and it was never recorded at a higher bit in the first place. Feel free to supply in H.264.

- Time lapse sequence shot on 8bit jpg files. H.264 for the same reason as above.

- Time lapse from RAW with no jpg process in-between. Maximum quality for the buyer can be provided in one of the ProRes formats, HQ being optimum.

- Files from a "better" codec such as a RAW format or the 10Bit XAVC of my particular Sony in HD. ProRes as it handles higher bit.

- The same files from my Sony in 4k that is not in 10bit. Reading up I think it's only spitting out 8bit 4k in the XAVC format natively. Well, since it's not 10bit, there is no point to the larger file size of the ProRes. H.264 would suffice technically. Although you may still want to supply the ProRes files because they may want to see it, even if there is no real technical advantage?

- 4k from my Sony that is recorded on an external 4k Atmos device via HDMI in 4k at 10 bit. One of the ProRes codecs provides maximum quality for the buyer and enables better post processing.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 04:31 by alistaircotton »

« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 05:29 »
+1
Well, I would never use h264 unless space or internet connection was a serious issue.

It only makes sense to use h264 if you upload STRAIGHT from a camera that records in it. As soon as you tweak something and export you re-encode the clip and you lose quality. By the way, there is a 10-bit h264 codec.

If you're using FCPX you're working in ProRes as soon as you make any changes and you will re-encode on export. ProRes withstands multiple compressions better than most.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 05:33 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 05:37 »
0
Thanks.

Noted.

« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2017, 11:49 »
0
Just how big are the file sizes on a prores format. I'm using adobe encoder on a PC and would ideally like files (15-20sec clips) in under 200MB or so so it does not kill my net connection. Also what settings to use

Current use h264, 70mbps target bitrate, max depth and render. File size of 144 for a HD file

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2017, 12:04 »
+1
ProRes 422HQ, no question about it.

Tyson Anderson

  • www.openrangestudios.com
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2017, 12:38 »
+1
Yes Prores HQ is the way to go.  If you're going to take selling stock footage serious, I would think you would wan't to provide the highest quality clips possible.  Why do all the work to produce and process the footage only to loose quality in the export just to save a bit of space.

Like the veteran film makers from back in the film days say "Hard drives are cheap"

« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2017, 13:11 »
0
Cool, just give me an idea of what the average file size look like for a 15-20sec clip

« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2017, 15:21 »
0

« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2017, 19:03 »
0
Cool, just give me an idea of what the average file size look like for a 15-20sec clip

1 to 2GB

stockVid

« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2017, 20:52 »
0
8K ProRes 4444 20 seconds roughly 10 GB
Burning through drives.
 :)

« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2017, 23:54 »
0
Wow...  That is an insane lot

So the issue is that my NEX6 outputs AVHD files. That comes to about 150MB for a 20sec shot. Now even if a format outputs files of more size the base quality is the same. So why not maintain the size.

Also my net connection is capped, 10GB per clip will kill that and my disks in no time
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:33 by izzikiorage »

« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2017, 00:45 »
0
Guys help please

« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2017, 07:25 »
0
Help with what?

If your connection is capped, obviously go for lower file sizes (native compression works).

If it's fast and not capped, go for what professional buyers want, which is ProRes 422 (HQ).

To find out any bitrate all you need to do is go here: www.google.com.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 07:52 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2017, 09:33 »
0
Help with what?

If your connection is capped, obviously go for lower file sizes (native compression works).

If it's fast and not capped, go for what professional buyers want, which is ProRes 422 (HQ).

To find out any bitrate all you need to do is go here: www.google.com.

If my camera outputs files of 200MB is encoding it in a file of more tham 200MB helping in any way

« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2017, 10:49 »
+1
If you change colors, brightness, contrast, add a gradient etc., then yes, it is better to re-encode to a 10-bit ProRes file. You now have more information than what your camera captured.

If you don't change ANYTHING, then re-encoding won't make a difference. The only thing would be that sites want certain standard formats, and customers like to see what they are used to seeing.

« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2017, 11:09 »
0
Guess the capping will get me killed. But it is what it is

« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2017, 11:11 »
0
Just find a good compromise. Estimate how many clips and sites you need to upload every month and use the best option that fits within your internet data cap.

« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2017, 21:13 »
0
Yup, have been limiting clips and using h264 to max the amount of clips i can upload

« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2017, 03:50 »
+1
I upload everything in Prores 422 HQ. File are huge but it's doable. We don't have data limits here. What are the data caps you have?

The pros and cons of Prores vs H264 have been discussed here often. Basically, H264 is a great delivery codec, but sucks as an intermediary codec. (ie, quality deteriorates quickly when doing color correction and/or vfx on H264 files)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 03:54 by ccbcc »


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
Final numbers for 06

Started by dbvirago Off Topic

14 Replies
4010 Views
Last post January 03, 2007, 19:16
by maco0708
4 Replies
3079 Views
Last post February 08, 2010, 17:05
by KB
1 Replies
3015 Views
Last post October 05, 2010, 15:09
by AD Tom
449 Replies
28985 Views
Last post July 06, 2013, 19:29
by Leo Blanchette
0 Replies
1276 Views
Last post October 20, 2014, 18:32
by Mantis

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results