MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: Pixart on April 02, 2019, 15:11

Title: Adobe Terms
Post by: Pixart on April 02, 2019, 15:11
Signing onto Adobe today and I'm asked to agree to terms.  Anyone know if something has changed or is this something that wasn't agreed to with the Fotolia/Adobe merge? 

Is 62. new?  I thought I could pull the plug at any time and no waiting period.

62 Managing Your Work. You may remove any of your Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of your Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days' prior written notice to Adobe.  We may remove Work or terminate your account at our sole discretion without prior notice.


And 9.1.  As a Canadian - has this always been the case?  Does a Canadian Company pay me and how do I receive a T-5?

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company. 
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: wds on April 02, 2019, 15:30
Got the message as well. It was odd in that the "new" terms were dated June 2018.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on April 02, 2019, 15:42
I just came here to see if I was seeing something odd - as you noted, it's bizarre that terms supposedly 10 months old are suddenly presented in a tiny box requesting our agreement. I intend to read it first - as an example I was not aware that there was a Dreamstime-like requirement to keep a portion of the work online until a 90-day notice had elapsed (edited to add that this isn't new - see below).

It doesn't look as if anyone really took care when writing these terms as paragraph 62 is probably intended to be 6.2 as a sub paragraph of section 6.

I will see if the internet archive can get us prior versions for comparison to see what might have changed.

Here is a July 2016 version of the terms and the 90 day restriction is there, so it's not new. Still looking to see what other versions I can locate

https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement-en_US-20160721_1200.pdf (https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement-en_US-20160721_1200.pdf)

And here's a PDF of the new terms (easier to read than in that minuscule box presented when we try to access our account information)

https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement_Addl_Terms_en_US_20180605.pdf (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement_Addl_Terms_en_US_20180605.pdf)

I really think Mat needs to explain to us what the changes were from the prior version and why we're now being asked to acknowledge our agreement.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: JoeClemson on April 02, 2019, 15:53
My first thought is that it is a knee jerk reaction to Pond5 introducing exclusive accounts, which is leading a (significant?) number of contributors to request that all or part of their video portfolio on Adobe is suspended or deleted. Could be a coincidence, but it seems strange that this unannounced change should suddenly appear. I'm not going to accept the change until I see some feedback on here to clarify what is going on.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on April 02, 2019, 15:59
You always wonder if 10,000 words of terms would stand up in court.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 02, 2019, 16:01
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on April 02, 2019, 16:15
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Not likely as the 90 day notice has been in place since at least 2016

There is one sentence added to the 2018 version that wasn't in that Managing your Work paragraph in 2016:

"We may remove Work or terminate your account at our sole discretion without prior notice"
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 02, 2019, 16:45
No, I just had to renew it again now it says "62 Managing Your Work. You may remove any of your Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of your Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days' prior written notice to Adobe. We may remove Work or terminate your account at our sole discretion without prior notice."

Definitely a Pond5 reaction!
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Trippy on April 02, 2019, 17:04
No, I just had to renew it again now it says "62 Managing Your Work. You may remove any of your Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of your Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days' prior written notice to Adobe. We may remove Work or terminate your account at our sole discretion without prior notice."

Definitely a Pond5 reaction!

How can it be a reaction to Pond5 if the 90 day policy has been in place since 2016?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: marthamarks on April 02, 2019, 17:53
My eyes repeatedly crossed this afternoon trying to make sense of this, especially while trying to determine what's "new" and what's "not new" in both the main text and the separate Adobe Stock Contributor sectionÖ which you first have to notice and then click to find before diving into your lovely reading experience.

Wouldn't it be nice if companies like Adobe would flag the major changes, so we at least know what to look for in the hard-to-read type on long pages of murky legalese?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 02, 2019, 18:07
They are bringing attention to it now because video files are being taken off their site.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: marthamarks on April 02, 2019, 19:59
They are bringing attention to it now because video files are being taken off their site.

Why???  How???  Which ones???
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 02, 2019, 20:04
I know of one artist who has deleted 4,000 files off of Adobe the past few days and I am sure there are others! They want the clips Exclusive on Pond5 so you have to if you are making them exclusive.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: marthamarks on April 02, 2019, 20:44
I know of one artist who has deleted 4,000 files off of Adobe the past few days and I am sure there are others! They want the clips Exclusive on Pond5 so you have to if you are making them exclusive.

Okay, I appreciate that explanation. Thought you were implying that Adobe was removing contributors' videos, not the other way around. Now it makes sense, so thank you.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Danybot on April 02, 2019, 20:51


And 9.1.  As a Canadian - has this always been the case?  Does a Canadian Company pay me and how do I receive a T-5?

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.

Payment has been from Adobe Canada for the past couple of years.  I'm registered for HST in Canada, and I suspect that I should be collecting HST from them.  I wrote to them last year to ask about it, but they never responded.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: SuperPhoto on April 02, 2019, 21:26
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

I'm surprised you have so much faith in one agency. Hopefully your relationship never sours, because otherwise you are s.o.l...
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: swisschocolate on April 02, 2019, 23:49
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

I'm surprised you have so much faith in one agency. Hopefully your relationship never sours, because otherwise you are s.o.l...

No, he doesn't delete his clips and also is ready to upload new ones everywhere in 1-2 years if it doesn't work. He just encourages others to delete theirs... :-\
(Sorry, John, with all respect, it just looks so.)

Here is a July 2016 version of the terms and the 90 day restriction is there, so it's not new. Still looking to see what other versions I can locate

https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement-en_US-20160721_1200.pdf (https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement-en_US-20160721_1200.pdf)

And here's a PDF of the new terms (easier to read than in that minuscule box presented when we try to access our account information)

https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement_Addl_Terms_en_US_20180605.pdf (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Contributor_Agreement_Addl_Terms_en_US_20180605.pdf)

I really think Mat needs to explain to us what the changes were from the prior version and why we're now being asked to acknowledge our agreement.

Thanks for the pdf link! I wasn't able to find it there.
Yes, it would be great if Mat would explain it to us :)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: georgep7 on April 03, 2019, 00:52
Quote
Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Nope.

Deletion perhaps can vary from delete first ask later for claimed as stolen files,
or
deletion of older fotolia media that never selled and have near zero views
or
deletion of files with metadata indicating a pirated Pr or Ps (ok, wild guess...)
or
misleading or error titles, or keywording or pure files that are reported from customers
or
just a generic term added by the legal team as in every agency
or
whatever.

I am of the few that went with P5 exclusive all the way but I disagree (with all respect)  :)

EDIT: I can confirm 167 files deletion including previous weeks accepted uploads within an evening
and also email communication, indicating that I would like to leave with no problem or stall from AS.
:)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: alijaber on April 03, 2019, 03:03
I'm also sure it's related to P5.. I've deleted most of my video port at AS and I wasn't aware of the terms
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Lina on April 03, 2019, 03:31



And 9.1.  As a Canadian - has this always been the case?  Does a Canadian Company pay me and how do I receive a T-5?

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.

I think it was always Adobe Canada on my PayPal statement.

I have questions about that too. If non-US residents have relationship with Adobe Canada, why are they still taking tax withholding? Isn't that only for companies from USA?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: dirkr on April 03, 2019, 04:01
I know of one artist who has deleted 4,000 files off of Adobe the past few days and I am sure there are others! They want the clips Exclusive on Pond5 so you have to if you are making them exclusive.

Meaning they don't enforce their policies?

"You may remove any of your Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of your Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days' prior written notice to Adobe"

Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 03, 2019, 04:56


I have questions about that too. If non-US residents have relationship with Adobe Canada, why are they still taking tax withholding? Isn't that only for companies from USA?

finally someone notice real problem here. pond5 has nothing to do with this update.

Mat, after this update, as we non-us contributors are part of non-us based company, if we (non-us resident) still need to send w8-ben forms and get tax withheld (and we never got our 1042-s forms anyway), your superiors have to know there is huge possibility they are committing something.... bad?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 03, 2019, 05:30
I love Adobe and they have been very fair! I want them to succeed and still curate for other artist on BB where there clips are sold on Adobe! I don't have faith in any agency! I am just hoping the exclusive program does well as I feel the market is good for that move.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2019, 06:02
9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.
[/quote]


.. now this is interesting... if we got our royalties with deduction, will someone from Adobe explain exact meaning of this...
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 03, 2019, 06:23
9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.
[/i]

.. now this is interesting... if we got our royalties with deduction, will someone from Adobe explain exact meaning of this...
[/quote]

I can answer your because answer is pretty straightforward.

Did you ever get 1042-s forms?

No

Now read this (just first 8 words)

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file)

 
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2019, 07:24
.. I know that, thanks... what about some words from Adobe...?!
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: UIcomments on April 03, 2019, 07:43


And 9.1.  As a Canadian - has this always been the case?  Does a Canadian Company pay me and how do I receive a T-5?

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.

Payment has been from Adobe Canada for the past couple of years.  I'm registered for HST in Canada, and I suspect that I should be collecting HST from them.  I wrote to them last year to ask about it, but they never responded.

I've never received a T5 from them. T5 or not, you can always bill them as you would Canstock. Whether you receive the payment is another story. I suspect noone cares because they are not the end client. Whatever you charge will be refunded, so it's just extra paperwork with no net difference.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dennis Radeke on April 03, 2019, 07:47
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Sorry Jeff, but definitely not a reaction to Pond5 as you're thinking.  Adobe Stock is very focused on delivering value to customer and contributor, we have a game plan and will continue to execute against it.  Pond5 is a part of that as they are a partner.  I'll try to see if I can get the background and report back if possible.

Dennis
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Noedelhap on April 03, 2019, 07:47
Quote
62 Managing Your Work. You may remove any of your Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of your Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days' prior written notice to Adobe.  We may remove Work or terminate your account at our sole discretion without prior notice.

This reads to me like: 'if you break the rule and remove too much of your work at once, we will punish you by removing ALL your work and close your account!'

Isn't that helping the contributor in a way? ;)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: jjneff on April 03, 2019, 07:51
Sorry Dennis, just interesting timing. I agree with it anyways as I would be doing the same pond5 or not.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 03, 2019, 08:08
.. I know that, thanks... what about some words from Adobe...?!

I am waiting for that for almost 2 years, Adobestock said they have "special deal with IRS" on their official site

no other sites (amazon, google, getty) have that kind of deal. and IRS on their site say that everybody need to file 1042s

people are talking about pond5, because that change was also made as kind of diversion.

This is huge, we are talking about ten of thousands non-us contributors getting paid from Canada, not getting their 1042s forms and millions of dollars "withheld".

I'm still not talked to any media or lawyers about that but that is industry shaking huge, you'll see.

Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2019, 08:16
... and in plus, other agency with 30% withholding (in my case) on every sale... that`s even stranger...
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 03, 2019, 08:22
... and in plus, other agency with 30% withholding (in my case) on every sale... that`s even stranger...

We both know what is going on here even we dont want to spell those words.

But as individual we can't do much, we need to get as many non-us contributors as we can...

I can get several of my friends.

It is happening from the day adobe purchase fotolia. Fotolia was german based and all was correct then.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: kirstenharris on April 03, 2019, 08:29
Hi all,

New contributors who sign up on the Adobe Stock contributor portal accept the Contributor Terms of Use and we noticed that it wasn't the most recent version which is accessible on adobe.com: https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html. (https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html.)
This was fixed, so both locations now have the current version of the terms of use. As a result, also all existing contributors had to accept the terms of use dated June 2018 upon login to the portal.

Kirsten
Director, Adobe Stock Contributor Success
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Not Today on April 03, 2019, 08:43
I didn't accept them at first thinking it could have been a hack. Glad to hear it's normal..
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on April 03, 2019, 09:27
...As a result, also all existing contributors had to accept the terms of use dated June 2018 upon login to the portal.

Kirsten,

Thank you for explaining the background of this login surprise for contributors. However benign the intentions were here, I think this highlights an area which would really benefit from improvement in contributor communications.

At least two other agencies - Shutterstock and Alamy - provide clear explanations of what changed whenever the upload agreement/contributor terms of use are updated. As these documents are long and dense, it is hard otherwise to figure out what the changes are. They also send contributors email, as well as information on the contributor web site prior to requiring acceptance of the new terms.

It really helps to build trust with contributors when the agencies communicate with us over pricing, licensing and upload/contract changes.

Examples, FYI

Shutterstock terms - note the helpful summaries of each section on the right

https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms (https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms)

SS summary of changes the last time they happened in 2015

https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates)

Alamy's terms and their contract change record


https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp)

https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 03, 2019, 10:32
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Sorry Jeff, but definitely not a reaction to Pond5 as you're thinking.  Adobe Stock is very focused on delivering value to customer and contributor, we have a game plan and will continue to execute against it.  Pond5 is a part of that as they are a partner.  I'll try to see if I can get the background and report back if possible.

Dennis

Yes I noticed that when I was reading my Pond5 terms, that my video would be distributed on AdobeStock.  :)  Works for me or maybe I should say, less work for me.

Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Not Today on April 03, 2019, 10:45
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Sorry Jeff, but definitely not a reaction to Pond5 as you're thinking.  Adobe Stock is very focused on delivering value to customer and contributor, we have a game plan and will continue to execute against it.  Pond5 is a part of that as they are a partner.  I'll try to see if I can get the background and report back if possible.

Dennis

Yes I noticed that when I was reading my Pond5 terms, that my video would be distributed on AdobeStock.  :)  Works for me or maybe I should say, less work for me.

Will this apply to editorial videos available on P5? Or only commercial ones?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 03, 2019, 10:58
I can almost guarantee this is a reaction to Pond5. This is actually a positive step if they are noticing Pond5! Now everyone needs to pay 60%!

Sorry Jeff, but definitely not a reaction to Pond5 as you're thinking.  Adobe Stock is very focused on delivering value to customer and contributor, we have a game plan and will continue to execute against it.  Pond5 is a part of that as they are a partner.  I'll try to see if I can get the background and report back if possible.

Dennis

Yes I noticed that when I was reading my Pond5 terms, that my video would be distributed on AdobeStock.  :)  Works for me or maybe I should say, less work for me.

Will this apply to editorial videos available on P5? Or only commercial ones?

Hey, super question, I don't know. I just got the notice that P5 had partners and AS was one of them. Wow, what if... I hate to be optimistic based on my lack of knowledge or information, and I'd guess that since AS doesn't take Editorial the answer is no. But I don't know, so back to "good question".

Does anyone know?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Trippy on April 03, 2019, 11:10
Sorry Dennis, just interesting timing. I agree with it anyways as I would be doing the same pond5 or not.

I don't think a few people deleting a few thousand clips is anything for Adobe to be worried about.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Pixart on April 03, 2019, 11:15


And 9.1.  As a Canadian - has this always been the case?  Does a Canadian Company pay me and how do I receive a T-5?

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.

Payment has been from Adobe Canada for the past couple of years.  I'm registered for HST in Canada, and I suspect that I should be collecting HST from them.  I wrote to them last year to ask about it, but they never responded.

I'm in a GST Province and I know HST is somehow the same but somehow different, but if I invoice Adobe (Canada) I would add GST.  But when it's collecting royalties, I believe this is exempt.  (I am not purchasing a good or a service from them but collecting a royalty).  They would collect GST from Canadian Buyers though.

BUT they are lawfully required to give T-5's, but I am not sure it follows the same deadline of Feb 28 like T-4's.

I did have this conversation with a long gone small Canadian stock company, they asked for invoices through Paypal to collect your percentage - they probably weren't big enough for mass pay and didn't want to incur extra fees.  But they were pretty shocked to be asked that.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Danybot on April 03, 2019, 18:11
9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company.
[/i]

.. now this is interesting... if we got our royalties with deduction, will someone from Adobe explain exact meaning of this...

I can answer your because answer is pretty straightforward.

Did you ever get 1042-s forms?

No

Now read this (just first 8 words)

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file)
[/quote]

That does not explain it at all.  It sounds like Adobe has a subsidiary that is incorporated in Canada, and all payments to non-US photographers are from the Canadian company.  That means the recipients should all be filling out Canadian tax forms, not US tax forms.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 04, 2019, 01:48


That does not explain it at all.  It sounds like Adobe has a subsidiary that is incorporated in Canada, and all payments to non-US photographers are from the Canadian company.  That means the recipients should all be filling out Canadian tax forms, not US tax forms.

Dany, recipients are not the one who choose what to fill out. On adobestock site, we have w8ben form to fill and 30% of our US based  earning taken away or "withheld". Canadian companies dont have legitimate right to act as US withholding agent.

If AS take 30% of US based earning (and they do), demand w8 forms (and they do), they are not canadian but us based company, and in that case they MUST provide 1042s forms as not only tax return, but as evidence that IRS have even "seen" that money. Understand now?

In this case, after June 2018, all non us based contributors, have to get all money that was "withheld" back to their account balance.

Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: rene on April 04, 2019, 03:25
Below the page with new terms. The important part, the one we suppose read, is embeded in square window which use 10% of available space. Two possibilities:
1. Adobe's web designers are very bad.
2. They don't want us to read terms

(https://i.postimg.cc/287dwbz8/adst.png)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Trippy on April 04, 2019, 05:45
Below the page with new terms. The important part, the one we suppose read, is embeded in square window which use 10% of available space. Two possibilities:
1. Adobe's web designers are very bad.
2. They don't want us to read terms


I think the answer is both.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dennis Radeke on April 04, 2019, 12:47
...As a result, also all existing contributors had to accept the terms of use dated June 2018 upon login to the portal.

Kirsten,

Thank you for explaining the background of this login surprise for contributors. However benign the intentions were here, I think this highlights an area which would really benefit from improvement in contributor communications.

At least two other agencies - Shutterstock and Alamy - provide clear explanations of what changed whenever the upload agreement/contributor terms of use are updated. As these documents are long and dense, it is hard otherwise to figure out what the changes are. They also send contributors email, as well as information on the contributor web site prior to requiring acceptance of the new terms.

It really helps to build trust with contributors when the agencies communicate with us over pricing, licensing and upload/contract changes.

Examples, FYI

Shutterstock terms - note the helpful summaries of each section on the right

https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms (https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms)

SS summary of changes the last time they happened in 2015

https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates)

Alamy's terms and their contract change record


https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp)

https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp)

Hi Jo Ann,

That's some very solid feedback and I'm sure Kirsten has recorded it.  This is similar to what we do when we update Creative Cloud.

Thanks!
Dennis
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dennis Radeke on April 04, 2019, 12:52
Also, you can always find our general terms of use right here: https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html (https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html)

And Stock specific terms here: https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Additional_Terms_en_US_20190128_2200.pdf (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe_Stock_Additional_Terms_en_US_20190128_2200.pdf)

Hope this helps,
Dennis
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dennis Radeke on April 04, 2019, 12:55

Will this apply to editorial videos available on P5? Or only commercial ones?

This would only be for commercial clips.

Thanks,
Dennis
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dennis Radeke on April 04, 2019, 12:58
I don't think a few people deleting a few thousand clips is anything for Adobe to be worried about.

Well, on the other hand, we really do care about making our contributors successful and would be delighted to have all contributors contribute directly, but want the market to have a choice.  We believe Adobe Stock will continue to grow and evolve to become the #1 destination and that contributing directly will provide the best benefit to you and to our customers.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Dennis
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: obj owl on April 04, 2019, 13:02
...As a result, also all existing contributors had to accept the terms of use dated June 2018 upon login to the portal.

Kirsten,

Thank you for explaining the background of this login surprise for contributors. However benign the intentions were here, I think this highlights an area which would really benefit from improvement in contributor communications.

At least two other agencies - Shutterstock and Alamy - provide clear explanations of what changed whenever the upload agreement/contributor terms of use are updated. As these documents are long and dense, it is hard otherwise to figure out what the changes are. They also send contributors email, as well as information on the contributor web site prior to requiring acceptance of the new terms.

It really helps to build trust with contributors when the agencies communicate with us over pricing, licensing and upload/contract changes.

Examples, FYI

Shutterstock terms - note the helpful summaries of each section on the right

https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms (https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms)

SS summary of changes the last time they happened in 2015

https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/2015-contributor-terms-of-service-updates)

Alamy's terms and their contract change record


https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp)

https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp)

Hi Jo Ann,

That's some very solid feedback and I'm sure Kirsten has recorded it.  This is similar to what we do when we update Creative Cloud.

Thanks!
Dennis

Dennis, you have a contributor account, you know it's not on when you sign in to upload something and you get hit in the face with "check this box to say you have read the terms and conditions".  You haven't got time to read minute complicated documents on the fly, but you have to check the box regardless, it was a cheap trick and unnecessary.  Not solid feedback maybe, but in lieu of an apology, which Kirsten didn't quite manage, it's what you get.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Trippy on April 04, 2019, 13:12
I don't think a few people deleting a few thousand clips is anything for Adobe to be worried about.

Well, on the other hand, we really do care about making our contributors successful and would be delighted to have all contributors contribute directly, but want the market to have a choice.  We believe Adobe Stock will continue to grow and evolve to become the #1 destination and that contributing directly will provide the best benefit to you and to our customers.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Dennis

If you really do care about your contributors how about raising their royalty?

That would send massive ripples throughout the stock industry!

It would show just how serious Adobe is.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: panicAttack on April 05, 2019, 01:18
Copy paste from another topic:

OK, after I slept this over, after long conversation with IRS yesterday I would like to share my experience and knowledge to everyone concerned about AdobeStock, 1042s forms and taxes, and there are people who asked me about that so I would like to say it public for everyone who wants to know. I am talking only about withheld tax when adobe was US-based company for non us contributors, nothing else.

I need to be fair to AdobeStock, as I already wrote on this topic before, they are becoming friendly stock company and getting better earner at least for me. After I wrote my concern about getting paid from Adobe Canada, and not getting 1042s form from them, just signed letters, even that's contrary from what is stated on irs.gov official site, we can use that letter along with other sites 1042s form for tax return, and as long as we are getting adobestock withheld tax returned there is nothing to worry about.

That's it from me about this theme.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 05, 2019, 09:51
Copy paste from another topic:

OK, after I slept this over, after long conversation with IRS yesterday I would like to share my experience and knowledge to everyone concerned about AdobeStock, 1042s forms and taxes, and there are people who asked me about that so I would like to say it public for everyone who wants to know. I am talking only about withheld tax when adobe was US-based company for non us contributors, nothing else.

I need to be fair to AdobeStock, as I already wrote on this topic before, they are becoming friendly stock company and getting better earner at least for me. After I wrote my concern about getting paid from Adobe Canada, and not getting 1042s form from them, just signed letters, even that's contrary from what is stated on irs.gov official site, we can use that letter along with other sites 1042s form for tax return, and as long as we are getting adobestock withheld tax returned there is nothing to worry about.

That's it from me about this theme.

Good news, and being in the US I was totally baffled by the whole situation. So as long as the IRS accept "the letter" everyone is fine.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: obj owl on April 05, 2019, 12:33
Copy paste from another topic:

OK, after I slept this over, after long conversation with IRS yesterday I would like to share my experience and knowledge to everyone concerned about AdobeStock, 1042s forms and taxes, and there are people who asked me about that so I would like to say it public for everyone who wants to know. I am talking only about withheld tax when adobe was US-based company for non us contributors, nothing else.

I need to be fair to AdobeStock, as I already wrote on this topic before, they are becoming friendly stock company and getting better earner at least for me. After I wrote my concern about getting paid from Adobe Canada, and not getting 1042s form from them, just signed letters, even that's contrary from what is stated on irs.gov official site, we can use that letter along with other sites 1042s form for tax return, and as long as we are getting adobestock withheld tax returned there is nothing to worry about.

That's it from me about this theme.

Good news, and being in the US I was totally baffled by the whole situation. So as long as the IRS accept "the letter" everyone is fine.

Everyone is fine except for the Canadian tax authorities who are not getting their withholding tax.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 05, 2019, 17:03
Copy paste from another topic:

OK, after I slept this over, after long conversation with IRS yesterday I would like to share my experience and knowledge to everyone concerned about AdobeStock, 1042s forms and taxes, and there are people who asked me about that so I would like to say it public for everyone who wants to know. I am talking only about withheld tax when adobe was US-based company for non us contributors, nothing else.

I need to be fair to AdobeStock, as I already wrote on this topic before, they are becoming friendly stock company and getting better earner at least for me. After I wrote my concern about getting paid from Adobe Canada, and not getting 1042s form from them, just signed letters, even that's contrary from what is stated on irs.gov official site, we can use that letter along with other sites 1042s form for tax return, and as long as we are getting adobestock withheld tax returned there is nothing to worry about.

That's it from me about this theme.

Good news, and being in the US I was totally baffled by the whole situation. So as long as the IRS accept "the letter" everyone is fine.

Everyone is fine except for the Canadian tax authorities who are not getting their withholding tax.

Ah and once again that tangled web where I don't understand all the nuances. I suppose the Canadian tax people will want to look into this?  :)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Pixart on April 05, 2019, 23:30
I don't think Canada withholds  (and note the word "think", I'm not sure).  They are probably doing non-U.S. photographers a service by paying through a Canadian company.  Remember that the IRS didn't get the bright idea to withhold until sometime in the last few years/decade.  [Question - does Canstock withhold, they are Canadian and did the original Istock withhold?]

But.... they do have to issue documents to Canadian residents.  Has anyone received those?

AND - if this contract went into effect on that date (without looking it up June 2018)..... they should not have collected taxes on International photographers since that date.  Some non-treaty countries had 20- 30 - 40% withholding rates!  If that's what I understand from above, and the contract was retroactive, Adobe better set it right.

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company. 
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 06, 2019, 10:16
I don't think Canada withholds  (and note the word "think", I'm not sure).  They are probably doing non-U.S. photographers a service by paying through a Canadian company.  Remember that the IRS didn't get the bright idea to withhold until sometime in the last few years/decade.  [Question - does Canstock withhold, they are Canadian and did the original Istock withhold?]

But.... they do have to issue documents to Canadian residents.  Has anyone received those?

AND - if this contract went into effect on that date (without looking it up June 2018)..... they should not have collected taxes on International photographers since that date.  Some non-treaty countries had 20- 30 - 40% withholding rates!  If that's what I understand from above, and the contract was retroactive, Adobe better set it right.

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company. 

About that withholding, that's why my paychecks have taxes taken out if I work for someone. (law in 1943) People would collect the money, spend it and then the IRS would be chasing to get paid. Now imagine them having to chase all over the world to get $20 from someone in Indonesia?  :o

So of course they created withholding to solve that impossible collection nightmare.

I had to go look, but you made me do that.  ;)  Foreign Account Taxpayer Compliance Act of 2010 (FATCA) and there's also another part that I learned today (and will probably forget by tomorrow?)

FDAP is an abbreviation for Fixed, Determinable, Annual or Periodic income.  FDAP income applies to foreign persons earning income in the U.S; such persons will be subject to 30% withholding tax, or a lower rate if there is a tax treaty between the United States and the country of residency.

Time to go plant tulips and wildflowers.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Danybot on April 07, 2019, 16:16
I don't think Canada withholds  (and note the word "think", I'm not sure).  They are probably doing non-U.S. photographers a service by paying through a Canadian company.  Remember that the IRS didn't get the bright idea to withhold until sometime in the last few years/decade.  [Question - does Canstock withhold, they are Canadian and did the original Istock withhold?]

But.... they do have to issue documents to Canadian residents.  Has anyone received those?

AND - if this contract went into effect on that date (without looking it up June 2018)..... they should not have collected taxes on International photographers since that date.  Some non-treaty countries had 20- 30 - 40% withholding rates!  If that's what I understand from above, and the contract was retroactive, Adobe better set it right.

9.1. Relationship. If you reside in the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Systems Incorporated, a United States company. If you reside outside of the United States, your relationship is with Adobe Canada Services Corporation, a Canadian company. 

Your guess is correct.  Royalties are exempt from Canadian withholding tax "if the payment is made on, or for, a copyright for the production or reproduction of any literary, dramatic, musical, or artistic work."

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4061/nr4-non-resident-tax-withholding-remitting-reporting-2016.html#rents (https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4061/nr4-non-resident-tax-withholding-remitting-reporting-2016.html#rents)
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Danybot on April 07, 2019, 16:21
Further on the issue of tax on Canadians, it appears that royalty payments are exempt from GST/HST:  https://www.sfu.ca/finance/departments/payments/tax-compliance/hst/hst-atoz-list.html (https://www.sfu.ca/finance/departments/payments/tax-compliance/hst/hst-atoz-list.html)

Adobe Canada should be issuing T5 slips to Canadians to report the royalty payments (I remember that istockphoto used to do this when they were located in Canada before becoming part of Getty).
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Dumc on April 10, 2019, 12:00
Any of yall had any EL sales through adobe and how much idid you get (rank)? I had yesterday one for 25$ so I'm guessing this is from Fotolia?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 10, 2019, 13:40

If you really do care about your contributors how about raising their royalty?

That would send massive ripples throughout the stock industry!

It would show just how serious Adobe is.

Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels. Considering what others pay, AS is raising the bar and offering us more in real numbers.

I wouldn't be against adding new levels and incentives. Unlike the places that essentially set higher and higher quotas which are a disincentive and slap in our face. Like the RC or changing "consolidation" of levels or that absurd Big Stock 50,000 downloads bonus. Although AS might be doing away with levels altogether when FT closes.

All pretty confusing.

Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: cathyslife on April 10, 2019, 13:54
snip Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels.


Since I have been back with Fotolia/Adobe, well over a year now, I have been receiving those commissions, mostly 99c and above. So I donít think this raise is anything recent.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 10, 2019, 14:00
snip Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels.


Since I have been back with Fotolia/Adobe, well over a year now, I have been receiving those commissions, mostly 99c and above. So I donít think this raise is anything recent.

I came back too, after AS bought FT. It was, some standardization, no more 29c subs. I don't know when the 99c thing started, but I like it!  :) Yes it's an Adobe pricing deal, so it could be from when they started the transition right after they bought FT.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: cathyslife on April 10, 2019, 14:02
snip Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels.


Since I have been back with Fotolia/Adobe, well over a year now, I have been receiving those commissions, mostly 99c and above. So I donít think this raise is anything recent.

I came back too, after AS bought FT. It was, some standardization, no more 29c subs. I don't know when the 99c thing started, but I like it!  :) Yes it's an Adobe pricing deal, so it could be from when they started the transition right after they bought FT.


Yes, I like it, too!
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: MatHayward on April 10, 2019, 14:09
snip Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels.


Since I have been back with Fotolia/Adobe, well over a year now, I have been receiving those commissions, mostly 99c and above. So I donít think this raise is anything recent.

I came back too, after AS bought FT. It was, some standardization, no more 29c subs. I don't know when the 99c thing started, but I like it!  :) Yes it's an Adobe pricing deal, so it could be from when they started the transition right after they bought FT.

The 99 cent commissions are 33% of the price paid. The royalty rate didn't change, so those are the same. Most likely from a subscription of 10 downloads per month for $29.99 with a one year committment. This is a popular subscription so that is why you see so many of these commissions.

The increase in royalties was to the minimum payment which applies so larger subscriptions such as 750 downloads for $199.99. The volume of content being purchased is so high with these is the reason you see so many of this royalty amount.

You can see the details of the increases along with detailed information about royalty amounts and applicable subscriptionss in the charts linked here: https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html

We are always looking for ways to make contributing to Adobe Stock a better experience. Any and all suggestions and ideas are welcome.

-Mat
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 14:09
Does Adobe only do subs now for photos and illustrations?
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: cathyslife on April 10, 2019, 15:27
Does Adobe only do subs now for photos and illustrations?


Yesterday, I got a $2.64 commission. Not sure that is for a sub or not. Tried to look on my ipad. Viewing earnings on ipad is even worse than on mac.  :o
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 15:31
Does Adobe only do subs now for photos and illustrations?


Yesterday, I got a $2.64 commission. Not sure that is for a sub or not.
Maybe a fotolia sale it looks to me like they don't have credit sales on Adobe.  I must have missed the change.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on April 10, 2019, 22:47
Viewed from the Adobe contributor interface, a Fotolia credit sale will say Standard; Subscriptions are at various prices - $3.30, 99 cents, 66 cents and 38 cents mostly if it's an AS sale. FT subs sales are rare these days but they're rank based.

The sales marked as Custom are from the large corporate accounts and those numbers don't follow any pattern. Today I had one for $8.40; yesterday one for $5.86. There are a lot at 38 cents marked custom too.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: cathyslife on April 11, 2019, 07:36
Viewed from the Adobe contributor interface, a Fotolia credit sale will say Standard; Subscriptions are at various prices - $3.30, 99 cents, 66 cents and 38 cents mostly if it's an AS sale. FT subs sales are rare these days but they're rank based.

The sales marked as Custom are from the large corporate accounts and those numbers don't follow any pattern. Today I had one for $8.40; yesterday one for $5.86. There are a lot at 38 cents marked custom too.


I have those designations when I view on my mac, but those donít show on ipad. In fact, I canít even change the dates to view April sales. April doesnít even show in the dropdown. The tablet interface needs a lot of work. Or maybe there is some convoluted way to get to the stats I am looking for and havenít found yet. Too frustrating. I will check next time I am on my computer.
Title: Re: Adobe Terms
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2019, 09:11

If you really do care about your contributors how about raising their royalty?

That would send massive ripples throughout the stock industry!

It would show just how serious Adobe is.

Just a note, you might have missed, Adobe did raise our commissions. Not a big number, but they raised the minimum, and o some reason, most of my subs, and I mean over 50% are 99c, some are 66c and probably the second most value is 33c. I am not a high rank or anything special from FT levels. Considering what others pay, AS is raising the bar and offering us more in real numbers.


Correct!

May I also remind you that Adobe also offered one year of free Adobe Cloud Apps to qualified contributors.
BTW, if it's not too much to ask, it would be great to see that program extended.  :)