The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.

You misunderstood. I do keyword in English. In the old Fotolia days it was recommended to do it in your local language and it did work great. Didn't I say I'm talking about images with thousands of sales? Those were translated into English until yesterday, but not anymore.

Quote from: Sandeel on March 31, 2022, 02:14

Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.

Quote from: SVH on March 31, 2022, 15:28

Quote from: Wilm on March 31, 2022, 14:28

No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.

I'm a simple person. So you are a contributor signing up with an american company, you want to sell your photos worldwide. Right? You are given a choice to put your keywords in English or your native language. Which language would you choose? I would go for English. But you apparently do not. That's fine, I am very much pro-choice, but don't complain later that your keywords are not translated correctly.

What was your experience with fotolia? Did you use english keywords? Was that successful?

And where are you from and what do you offer?

First of all: I keyword everywhere in english.

Only fotolia was different. I repeat myself. At that time the translation software was not very good.

The most successful providers came from Germany, followed by Russia, Ukraine and - at a clear distance - the USA. Istock and shutterstock were particularly successful in the USA, and fotolia was king in the European market. Fotolia tried to take international market share from the other agencies, for example, through the Dollarphotoclub, but it didn't work. Only the takeover by Adobe changed that.

As Jo Ann has already written, it was advisable (and also recommended) to use the local language for keywords at fotolia if the image material could be clearly assigned to one's own region.

And that is exactly what Sandeel did at that time.

Since you were not present at fotolia, you lack this knowledge. That is completely okay. But because you don't know how it was, your criticism was just not okay.

It didn't matter where fotolia's corporate headquarters were located. It did matter where the money was to be made. And the market outside the USA played a very important role.

I hope that it is now understandable. Today is today - there were other factors back then.

Quote from: Wilm on March 31, 2022, 17:03

First of all: I keyword everywhere in english.

Only fotolia was different. I repeat myself. At that time the translation software was not very good.

The most successful providers came from Germany, followed by Russia, Ukraine and - at a clear distance - the USA. Istock and shutterstock were particularly successful in the USA, and fotolia was king in the European market. Fotolia tried to take international market share from the other agencies, for example, through the Dollarphotoclub, but it didn't work. Only the takeover by Adobe changed that.

As Jo Ann has already written, it was advisable (and also recommended) to use the local language for keywords at fotolia if the image material could be clearly assigned to one's own region.

And that is exactly what Sandeel did at that time.

Since you were not present at fotolia, you lack this knowledge. That is completely okay. But because you don't know how it was, your criticism was just not okay.

It didn't matter where fotolia's corporate headquarters were located. It did matter where the money was to be made. And the market outside the USA played a very important role.

I hope that it is now understandable. Today is today - there were other factors back then.

Yes, I do lack knowledge of the days back then. But if I understand correctly, from your words, translation was poor so people were aiming for the german market then, right? Otherwise people (in general, not you personally) would not have added german keywords. And now they complain that the international (English language) market doesn't see their photos with the german keywords. I am completely lost here what you are trying to say.

Quote from: Sandeel on March 31, 2022, 02:14

Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

Quote from: MatHayward on March 31, 2022, 09:45

Quote from: Sandeel on March 31, 2022, 02:14

Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

Quote from: kall3bu on April 08, 2022, 10:22

Quote from: MatHayward on March 31, 2022, 09:45

Quote from: Sandeel on March 31, 2022, 02:14

Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

It sounds like you are misunderstanding the way search works. If you upload a photo taken in Turkey and you are in Turkey, there is a chance you would not see this image in search depending on the subject matter of the image. However, the image would still be available in most other countries and can be sold.

-Mat

April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.

Quote from: Wilm on April 24, 2022, 15:01

April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.

my port isn't affected by month - there are ups & downs, but they average out - which why a 3�5-month running average is more appropriate to such a stochastic process as ms sales(even more so for small portfolios- cf law of small numbers); and worse,  we don't have detailed reporting from the agencies to create a statistically significant result, so individual anecdotes can't explain varying results

Changed algorithm means changed, not better for everyone or worse for everyone. Some images are moved further back, some are brought to the fore. That's what definitely happened. My sales are about the same as before, but there was a shift in WHAT sells. Some older best sellers were brought back from the dead and some other best sellers were disfavored. I had regularly checked the results for at least one very major keyword and I see different results on the first three pages since April, I mean all results, not just my own.

Also you can notice any algorithm changes if you go to your own portfolio and search for a keyword within it. The order that you see there is exactly how they appear in the main site's search. For example let's say you search for "flower" in your port and see image x at the top and then image y. Then you go to the main site and search for flower. Image x will be the first of your own images that you will find and image y will be the second, and so on. That's a fact, it was 100% and steadily confirmed for me, without any exceptions. Now if the algorithm changes, the sorting of your own images will suddenly be all over the place, and that's what happened.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 26, 2022, 11:16

Ah, so you are saying, someone shuffled the deck and dealt our new image ranks, in a different order. Interesting.

So that whole thing in the multiple webinars and files, and advice, about the rank being set in the first 30 days, isn't true anymore?

I don't know anything about the first 30 days, I must have missed that piece of info. What's up with that?

Quote from: t�tar�t� on April 27, 2022, 11:19

Actually i don't check my images at Adobe Stock. I even do no stock statistics any more.
The statistic site at Adobe Stock is doing well for me.
As far i can say, i see no much difference at Adobe Stock on average DL and $$. Everything seems OK. Though i don't care about what images are selling. Maybe there have been a change, i don't know.
There are some images from 2011 to 2022. All are good enough to sell from time to time.

So you don't check and you don't care if you sell something or not. Weird way of trying to sell photos, through microstock

3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

Well that is either incorrect or outdated or both. You cannot put concept ideas in keywords. I mean I know its obvious you should and only a halfwit would think you shouldn't but it isnt permitted.
E.g you cannot have a photograph of just a tray of bulbs (plants) and use keywords like gardening, borders, flower bed, planting, etc. Although invoking words that are clearly linked to the image or conceptually linked you cannot use them.

Keywords are: type what you see.

A duck nestling in a clump of grass cannot have pond as a keyword if a pond is not visible.

The rule is so ambiguous as to be moronic but there we are.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 28, 2022, 09:05

Quote from: Lowls on April 27, 2022, 17:04

3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

Well that is either incorrect or outdated or both. You cannot put concept ideas in keywords. I mean I know its obvious you should and only a halfwit would think you shouldn't but it isnt permitted.
E.g you cannot have a photograph of just a tray of bulbs (plants) and use keywords like gardening, borders, flower bed, planting, etc. Although invoking words that are clearly linked to the image or conceptually linked you cannot use them.

Keywords are: type what you see.

A duck nestling in a clump of grass cannot have pond as a keyword if a pond is not visible.

The rule is so ambiguous as to be moronic but there we are.

Rule? No it's a summary of what they said was happening and how the system works. My words from their webinar. GO WATCH THE TWO VIDEOS PLEASE?

Who says you can put concept ideas in keywords? Who says it's not permitted.

The reviewer who processed my images and rejected them because I added the words pond and life. There was no pond. There was a dragonfly. There was no pond  but I wasn't allowed to have pond  or pondlife nor amphibian. Fair do on that though they are amphibious for some of the year, and not aquatic so the images were rejected. I pointed out that when you search for flying pond life the images that come back are dragonflies but Matt said no but passed them as a special one time never to be repeated exception but he manually removed those keywords. No pond. Not even a puddle.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 28, 2022, 09:05

Who's a moron, the person who includes concepts or the one who doesn't?

erm neither what. That's not what I wrote is it? * checks* no I said the rule was moronic. I assumed you cut and paste the rules or guidelines from somehwere. But ok then point 3. I mean I quoted it but if you want to split molecules fair enough lol. I love the intensity of your reply though Peter ... WHO' S A MORON ... lol.

Quote from: kall3bu on April 08, 2022, 10:22

Quote from: MatHayward on March 31, 2022, 09:45

Quote from: Sandeel on March 31, 2022, 02:14

Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

It sounds like you are misunderstanding the way search works. If you upload a photo taken in Turkey and you are in Turkey, there is a chance you would not see this image in search depending on the subject matter of the image. However, the image would still be available in most other countries and can be sold.

-Mat

This must be related to your easter motifs, Firn. Maybe there is a change in the algo for easter, where images containing the search term easter are pushed for a certain period before easter.

Urgh never mind.

Quote from: Lowls on May 02, 2022, 13:09

Urgh never mind.

Pond is not a concept it's a Noun.

Quote from: MatHayward on March 30, 2022, 17:04

Quote from: Sandeel on March 30, 2022, 12:55

The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.

I have not been made aware of any changes to the system recently.

-Mat

Hey Mat,

Is there an Email or phone number I can call at Adobe for contributors. I'm having problems with my account.

Quote from: Lowls on May 03, 2022, 11:41

Quote from: Stock4Me on May 03, 2022, 08:31

Quote from: Lowls on May 02, 2022, 13:09

Urgh never mind.

Pond is not a concept it's a Noun.

Obviously. Pond wasn't meant to be a concept. Pond was just an obvious word in the title and keyword that someone would type to find dragonflies. The title that was rejected stated something like "Golden ringed Dragonfly basking in the sun after feeding near a pond. Scientific name (Latin name). It was rejected for the scientific name and keyword pond, life. Pond insects. Flying pond bugs all find dragonflies in the search bar. But I wasn't allowed Pond because there was no pond. It was a stupid refusal. I won't debate that any longer because it is patently obviously a pond related subject. Or stream either is correct.

I believe I did point out various examples of this rigidity being lame. I stated that we could no longer have conceptual titles because a photo titled meditation would now have to become "woman sitting oddly alone in room. But we cant have room because only one wall can be seen. Prisoner becomes "young man sitting on generic bed against a wall wearing grey overalls. No prison visible.

I guess it comes down to how badly do adobe want their photos to be found. Not very in that case. And I'm a native speaker of English. So to throw these subjective obstacles in the way is tiresome. It was removed on my behalf and then published. Well I say refused it was placed in a limbo state until I corrected mistakes. After 3 goes I couldn't work out why which is why I asked for help and the explanation given that title must be in English not foriegn languages (Latin is the only name for some insects but whatever) that I can only title what is visible which makes conceptual ideas risky and that future repeated instances of rule breaking like this could result in 'keyword spamming' and closure of account.

Pond. Ok lol  jeeze

Obviously you are wrong. I find many images with Latin names in title and many with concept words that you claim they don't allow. You are wrong or lying.

https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=dragonfly&search_type=default-asset-click&asset_id=469521372

Maybe you are just watched more because you are a keyword spammer and got caught.

Quote from: alan b traehern on May 04, 2022, 08:57

Quote from: Lowls on May 03, 2022, 11:41

Quote from: Stock4Me on May 03, 2022, 08:31

Quote from: Lowls on May 02, 2022, 13:09

Urgh never mind.

Pond is not a concept it's a Noun.

Obviously. Pond wasn't meant to be a concept. Pond was just an obvious word in the title and keyword that someone would type to find dragonflies. The title that was rejected stated something like "Golden ringed Dragonfly basking in the sun after feeding near a pond. Scientific name (Latin name). It was rejected for the scientific name and keyword pond, life. Pond insects. Flying pond bugs all find dragonflies in the search bar. But I wasn't allowed Pond because there was no pond. It was a stupid refusal. I won't debate that any longer because it is patently obviously a pond related subject. Or stream either is correct.

I believe I did point out various examples of this rigidity being lame. I stated that we could no longer have conceptual titles because a photo titled meditation would now have to become "woman sitting oddly alone in room. But we cant have room because only one wall can be seen. Prisoner becomes "young man sitting on generic bed against a wall wearing grey overalls. No prison visible.

I guess it comes down to how badly do adobe want their photos to be found. Not very in that case. And I'm a native speaker of English. So to throw these subjective obstacles in the way is tiresome. It was removed on my behalf and then published. Well I say refused it was placed in a limbo state until I corrected mistakes. After 3 goes I couldn't work out why which is why I asked for help and the explanation given that title must be in English not foriegn languages (Latin is the only name for some insects but whatever) that I can only title what is visible which makes conceptual ideas risky and that future repeated instances of rule breaking like this could result in 'keyword spamming' and closure of account.

Pond. Ok lol  jeeze

Obviously you are wrong. I find many images with Latin names in title and many with concept words that you claim they don't allow. You are wrong or lying.

https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=dragonfly&search_type=default-asset-click&asset_id=469521372

Maybe you are just watched more because you are a keyword spammer and got caught.

I followed your link and many more have Latin names titles. You're right, that is allowed. Anyone who says it's not is obviously wrong and spreading misinformation.

Asian Groundling dragonfly (Brachythemis contaminata) by fish pond,