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Author Topic: US Petition to improve FT subs model  (Read 7300 times)

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cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« on: June 13, 2008, 15:37 »
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The French petition has been translated, please sign it if you feel that Fotolia should improve the subscription model:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fotoliasubs/

Let's continue to put the pressure on them, IT WORKS!

After all the recent complaints they:
1. raised the sub royalty twice
2. changed the way subs work with ranking

This would have never happened without us asking for changes

Let's not stop there, there are still many things wrong such as a missing opt-out for all.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 15:43 by cphoto »


« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 16:39 »
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Signed (although I'm just a small fish in the microstock-ocean). I believe changes are needed, at least the possibility to opt-out for all contributors.

« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 17:23 »
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1. raised the sub royalty twice
2. changed the way subs work with ranking



when was the 2nd change? I still get 0.27 for silver.

subs do count in ranking, but 4 subs equals to 1 credit sale.

cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 17:47 »
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look at http://www.fotolia.com/Info/Pricing

it now goes from 0.30 to 0.37

So you should be getting 0.32

« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 18:43 »
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Hmm, I got 26c today.  :(

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 18:46 »
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well that is very encouraging.  Nice to see they listened to the contributors.  Well done fotolia
Here is the current price layout breakdwon

white   0.30 Credit
bronze   0.31 Credit
silver   0.32 Credit
gold    0.33 Credit
emerald   0.34 Credit
sapphire   0.35 Credit
rubis   0.36 Credit
diamond   0.37 Credit

« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 18:51 »
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Just signed it, but too few people yet!  :(

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2008, 02:39 »
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well that is very encouraging.  Nice to see they listened to the contributors.  Well done fotolia
Here is the current price layout breakdwon

white   0.30 Credit
bronze   0.31 Credit
silver   0.32 Credit
gold    0.33 Credit
emerald   0.34 Credit
sapphire   0.35 Credit
rubis   0.36 Credit
diamond   0.37 Credit

The raise is not bad at all. Like on (most) other sites.  I can live with that (I dont sell subs to much anyway). They should do this at the first place, and avoid atracting negatve publicity. I am glad they raised the comisions. Those 0.27 were really low, 0.32 is somehow acceptable.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 03:02 by Peter »

« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2008, 03:10 »
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I think their subs prices look quite fair now.

« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2008, 04:25 »
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Not really.  It's still less than the Shutterstock rates.

Fotolia have really shown their true colors to contributors in this debacle - is it really the case that two weeks of experience in the subs market gives them the knowledge needed to raise commissions?  What absolute bollocks.  No businessman I know would make a judgement based on two weeks.  No - Fotolia set out to screw their contributors, destroyed three years of goodwill and are now backtracking and making excuses.

And its appalling that no word has been heard from senior management depite all the upset and petitions - they've left the job to a junior lacky and hidden behind their Mercedes and Armani suits.

Once a screwer always a screwer.  It will take a very long time indeed for confidence to be restored.  If ever.

« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2008, 05:30 »
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Well said Hatman. I couldn't agree more. We removed our portfolio from Fotolia  about three months ago, after the photo ID debacle, and have no regrets.
We have seen little difference in our overall income.
Linda

« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2008, 07:43 »
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Not really.  It's still less than the Shutterstock rates.

Fotolia have really shown their true colors to contributors in this debacle - is it really the case that two weeks of experience in the subs market gives them the knowledge needed to raise commissions?  What absolute bollocks.  No businessman I know would make a judgement based on two weeks.  No - Fotolia set out to screw their contributors, destroyed three years of goodwill and are now backtracking and making excuses.

And its appalling that no word has been heard from senior management depite all the upset and petitions - they've left the job to a junior lacky and hidden behind their Mercedes and Armani suits.

Once a screwer always a screwer.  It will take a very long time indeed for confidence to be restored.  If ever.


I completely agree hatman!!  In my opinion 2 weeks would never be adequate in the business world as true experience for something like this.  What they're doing is called damage control.  Am I happy with the new rates?  No, not really.  Sure, they are better but it's still lower than SS.  I stick by what I said before, I will stick this out to see how FT sub sales effect my overall bottom line.  As of today I have yet to receive any sub sales. (knocking on wood that I won't!)

And another thing... the way Chad's post on the yahoo group was worded sounds quite condescending to me.  Particularly the 4th paragraph.  (here's a direct link for those who missed it: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/micropayment/message/20539) Compare it with the way Alamy handled their recent contributor backlash.  They sent a very lengthy newsletter explaining more about the new program and gave contributors the option to opt out.  They also announced the opt out on the blog.  Chad posts his in a 3rd party forum that not all FT contributors read, insulting the protesters in the process. He then posted a quick 3 sentence blurb in the FT forums with no explanation or anything close to what he put in the yahoo forum.  Nothing on their blog either.

Sorry FT but you're name is still mud in my book.

lisafx

« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2008, 09:26 »
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This is big news about the subscription royalty increase, IMHO.  It is a .05 jump per level and I think that is a fairly major concession.   

They are now paying comparable to most other subscription plans.  Not as much as SS, but still a vast improvement. 

Frankly, I think that everyone who complained about the lowball prices (including me) should appreciate that they listened to contributors and raised them to reasonable levels.  To continue to grumble and say "not enough, we want more more more" is counterproductive. 

If we are going to ask sites to give us a fairer deal, then we need to acknowledge and appreciate when they do.  Otherwise next time they may not bother....
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 10:05 by lisafx »

« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2008, 12:12 »
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To continue to grumble and say "not enough, we want more more more" is counterproductive. 

I still want a choice of opting out.  OK, DT did not give me this choice, but StockXpert and IS later did, and I appreciate both for that.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2008, 15:12 »
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It is good that they raised the commission the second time, better than if they would have sticked to the first raise. Yes communication was not all that well, but now they do not have the worst subscription model anymore. From the big six their is one- two which are worse that Ft's model. For European photographers Fotolia has the highest subscription payout (apart from istock). So for me it is currently the second best model. And their files are limited to L which no agency prior has done. Of course it does not come close to iStocks model and does not excuse the lack of communication. But this is at least a compromise between agency and photographers and a better move than to do nothing.
There is one thing which would be nice, not for me, but just a move in the direction to restore trust. Make opt out optional for all. The very most will not opt out, as happend with StockXpert. And I will not as well..

« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2008, 08:29 »
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Another points are importants in the Fotolia's petition as :

- Give possibility of optout subscription's formula
- Limit the size available for subs at M maxi

Please take the time to read the details's petition and sign it if you are OK

Regards

« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2008, 12:08 »
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Another points are importants in the Fotolia's petition as :

- Give possibility of optout subscription's formula
- Limit the size available for subs at M maxi

Please take the time to read the details's petition and sign it if you are OK

Regards

Your request is not very reasonable. You see, L size is 4MP. M size is 2MP.

Can you upoad 2MP at SS? Of course not.

You also have 4MP on SS, and similar comisions (even less for newbies - 0.25$ at SS). 





« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2008, 14:02 »
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Yes, you can upload 2mp to SS.  If you were signed up with them before sometime around late 06 I think. 

« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2008, 15:18 »
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I am on SS since september 2007.

« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2008, 17:30 »
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Your request is not very reasonable. You see, L size is 4MP. M size is 2MP.

Can you upoad 2MP at SS? Of course not.

You can in IS and StockXpert.  And I am not in SS. 

People who have restrictions to the subs model (like I do) don't compare things to SS because they're not there (in general).

Regards,
Adelaide

cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2008, 00:33 »
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This is my reply to Chad Bridwell on the yahoo forum:

Hi Chad,

Thanks for the update, that's indeed a positive step.

Now like everybody else I agree that it would be fair that Fotolia let their contributors decide whether or not they want to participate in this subscription adventure. Istock, Stockxpert, 123rf, snapvillage, let us opt out, why not Fotolia?

Another surprising thing in what you said is that given Fotolia success, we would have expected that Fotolia management would have pushed towards the midstock market (infinite collection), and not try to lower the prices even more at a time when everyone else is trying to raise them. You advertise on the front page:

"The lowest image prices in the world"

Is that really Fotolia new strategy to push the price at the lowest level in the industry? What happened to the infinite collection strategy? Did not you say 5 months ago:

"We are only trying to offer a balanced solution that raises the long term price/earnings of contributors and provides great value to buyers without proposing for example, a micro subscription model that pulls down prices to 25 cents an image, decreases the overall business, and only provides short term sales benefits. People who bought images for
25 cents per image will not buy the same ones for 1 to 10 dollars."

How can you justify such a change in strategy in just five month without losing all credibility with your contributors and customers?

And lastly, I agree that the forum should not be a place to start riots, be rude and have non constructive threads.

HOWEVER, yesterday in one thread I politely suggested that Fotolia should consider changing the susbscription model where they would
charge more subs credit based on the image size. I also asked if Fotolia would consider having an opt out option for non-exclusive.

Within 10 minutes my post was edited by an admin without any explanation what so ever. I believe I did not break any rule, I did not post any link, did not mention any other competitive micro, or did not had any negative words for Fotolia, I was just suggesting some improvements to the system. Such a censorship is not acceptable.

==================================================
Hello Folks,

I would like to give you a quick update on Fotolia. We have recently raised the base price of subscription commissions from 25 30 cents for white rank photographers and up to 37 cents for top Diamond rank. As I mentioned 2 weeks ago Fotolia needed to gather more data before we could adjust the commissions. And as I predicted our data did allow us to raise our commissions to photographers. In addition Fotolia has decided to count subscription sales towards a photographers rank, as a 4:1 ratio meaning 4 subscription sales equal 1 traditional sale.  These changes are live on the site now.

Our recent statistics show us that Fotolia is doing something right as just yesterday Fotolia was ranked in the top 1000 websites by Alexa, ranking us as 983. Fotolia is ranked well above our competitors with the exception of istockphoto http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/fotolia.com.

Never in the history of Fotolia has the photographer community made so much money. Every week we continue to break payout records to photographers. It is amazing to see our growth in just 3 short years of operation. Many said it could not be done but here we are. However we still have a long way to go. Everyday we fight for new buyers around the globe. Our competition is fierce and we are a small team but I believe in the future of Fotolia.

In concern to the discussions happening in various forums, we believe the majority of these discussions are not constructive and organized by a few to cause riots in the community. We also believe there are those who seek after selfish means of popularity and personal gain. Such discussions are dangerous not only to Fotolia but the entire community because we know that many buyers read and research your words. We believe in free speech but we will not tolerate such discussions from people who benefit from Fotolias success by day and tear us down at night. We will not allow this to continue. If we believe a members actions or comments (on or off Fotolia) are detrimental to the growth of Fotolia we will not hesitate to take action and remove their account regardless of their rank or past success. 

I want to make one thing clear, the Fotolia management team decides the strategy for Fotolia, no one else. Those who do not share in our vision for the company are free to leave at any time.

The reality has been that Fotolia has always tried to raise photographers earnings through higher prices, ranking, the ability to sell in the infinite collection, and now subscriptions. We believe in our model and do not make decisions irrationally. Generally people who have trusted us throughout these years are not disappointed.

I wish you all a great weekend.

Sincerely,

Chad Bridwell
Director of US Operations

« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 00:35 by cphoto »


 

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