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Author Topic: EU VAT Changes from January 2015! ALERT  (Read 38324 times)

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« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2014, 07:00 »
+5
Guys...time will tell us who raped who in this mad world of ours.

In a meanwhile, let's inform ourselves what to do with this EUVAT rule and find the best way to continue e-commerce with our mother Europe.  ;)


Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2014, 08:01 »
-4
If you continually call a crash you will sometimes be right. But that is not prescience, it's the stopped clock scenario. For the past 5 or so years, for example, the doomers have been constantly predicting a crash whilst the markets continued to rise - partly on the back of govt liquidity but also because there is genuine value and new opportunity. That's what markets do. They rise and fall but not in perfect patterns.

Today anti-intellectual conspiracy thinking is epidemic, like a disease. And mainstream. It provides a commonality between groups which have no other shared values other than being anti. So self-entitled miserable anti-capitalists find themselves weirdly aligned with anti-govt ultra-capitalists, gold nuts and Bitcoiners.

but being "anti" doesn't imply being anti-capitalist.
there's nothing wrong in most of the whole capitalist ideology, the problem lies in how it's executed and kept running over time.

it's not rocket science to ask billions of $ to foreign banks and start a quick boom/bust cycle, any third world country tried it and most of them failed big time and the entire West plus Japan is now having flat growth or deflation, no matter if they overprint paper money or if they lend each other trillions of $ behind doors.

the rich aren't too much affected by the consequences of their own economic policies but the less rich are the ones actually facing a loss in their buying power or even sudden poverty and unemployment, that's why now out of the blue the "doomers" and the conspiracy have gotten mainstream attention and rightly so but for the record i was saying the same sh-it already in the 90s.

what we're witnessing now is getting a lot bigger than the 1929 crisis and WW3 is looking more and more like the only exit strategy left to the US egemony.

i wouldn't make too much distinction between mainstream analysis and "doomers" analysis, all that matters is if their analysis are well grounded or not.

there would be nothing strange if the EU crash and burn and i will also tell you the biggest bubble ever will come from China when the sh-it will finally hit the fan, having lived there i've seen so many crazy things their system is just totally unsustainable once the divide in salaries and cost of living ceases to exist the way it's been in the last decades which is the mirror situation of Japan and Taiwan outsourcing in the mainland and for which nobody have found a solution apart for starting new colonial wars or importing gazillions of underpaid immigrants as in the EU.


Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2014, 08:27 »
-3
Greece cooked the books and caused a massive problem for the EU, not the other way around. Hadnt it been for the EU, Greece would have defaulted and caused the whole of the EU to fall.

exactly, but greece is just the start, many others will follow soon.

half of the new EU members have been taken in just so that NATO could takeover the leftovers of the USSR after 1989 and of course they were a bit too much optimistic about their economic recovery, we all know that anything the US touches turns to sh-it and now good luck putting the genie back in the bottle ... most of the East is totally corrupt to the bone and has no way to magically improve the situation overnight to please the eurocrats in Brussels and on top of this they're Nato members so they can't be just booted out as a sack of potato, somebody will have to pay to keep them alive one way or another ... imagine the US suddenly having to feed the entire Mexico and getting nothing back, it's a black hole and the whole EU is indeed designed to be that way, unaccountable and unelected.



« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 08:31 by Hobostocker »

« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2014, 08:39 »
+10
Topic: EU VAT Changes from January 2015! ALERT

« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2014, 11:17 »
0
Topic: EU VAT Changes from January 2015! ALERT

Well you should assume that people are intelligent enough to be able to follow a number of different conversations within a thread. It's all ultimately useful background - even the wildest opinion or conspiracy. It's part of the shape of the argument. No single strand within a thread has a monopoly. That's the nature of unmoderated conversation.

At this stage there are no definitive answers or practical solutions which apply universally. Today's commercial webinar is not going to provide any practical universal solutions either. Because there are none which apply to sole traders. It's all ultimately speculative. The webinar can really be no more pertinent than anything which is already available online anyhow.

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2014, 22:44 »
-1
even the wildest opinion or conspiracy.

there's absolutely nothing wrong in being fed mainstream propaganda or the wildest conspiracies as it's all symmetrically relational to your political/economical background, nobody can be indoctrinated or manipulated if they've a solid knowledge on a specific topic, simple as that, but if someone is clueless he will believe what he's told and keep that belief all his life and never dare to question it or ask for any proofs.

this new VAT law has been discussed since forever, it's not something that the eurocrats suddenly pulled out of their as-s, it's just the consequence of a cost/benefit analysis since the biggest e-commerce companies like Amazon are not based in EU and the EU is getting nothing back as they use every possible legal loophole to avoid paying taxation like any other EU based entity.

in short, they're doing unfair competition and of course this is damaging EU's local e-commerce companies.
if the EU doesn't move a finger in their defence, who will ?

« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 22:51 by Hobostocker »

« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2014, 02:26 »
0
Deleted.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 02:29 by robhainer »

« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2014, 03:57 »
0
even the wildest opinion or conspiracy.

this new VAT law has been discussed since forever, it's not something that the eurocrats suddenly pulled out of their as-s, it's just the consequence of a cost/benefit analysis since the biggest e-commerce companies like Amazon are not based in EU and the EU is getting nothing back as they use every possible legal loophole to avoid paying taxation like any other EU based entity.

in short, they're doing unfair competition and of course this is damaging EU's local e-commerce companies.
if the EU doesn't move a finger in their defence, who will ?

And not just Amazon... In Microstock, Pond5 is the one who is registered in Swiss so therefore no VAT paid towards EU. Who else?

« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2014, 08:39 »
0
MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

While on this thread, I understand that this would only be relevant if one was selling direct to consumer (example, Symbiostock).

But others (either company or individual micro stocker) who was selling ONLY through stock agencies should not be affected?  As its the stock agency who would be taking on the sales to consumer accounting and tax.  Can anyone guide please?  Am I seeing this correctly or is there an impact even if one is selling only through stock agencies??

As a micro stocker with company based in Sweden, I'm wondering how all this will finally affect me :)

« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2014, 09:01 »
+2
As I understand it, if you're selling only through agencies then this won't affect you except possibly with Envato.  Don't let the frothing, wild-eyed doomsayers scare you - the sky is not falling on January 1st except in some people's paranoid delusions.

« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2014, 09:58 »
-1
As I understand it, if you're selling only through agencies then this won't affect you except possibly with Envato. 

Well, this possibly could affect us too, because buyers in the EU will need to pay more for our files, therefore they will choose easier check out, cheaper options, package sales...etc.
More burden on operations for agencies, possibly less sales % for us.

Time will tell. :-)

« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2014, 10:25 »
+1
Well, this possibly could affect us too, because buyers in the EU will need to pay more for our files

No. EU clients using stock agencies outside of the EU (eg based in the USA) have been to subject to VAT/TVA since years already. Nothing has changed in that respect. EU based clients were already paying VAT/TVA and the agencies were expected to collect it unless the client provided a VAT registration number.

What has changed concerns the detail around the way in which the process is administered.

« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2014, 10:26 »
0
MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

While on this thread, I understand that this would only be relevant if one was selling direct to consumer (example, Symbiostock).

But others (either company or individual micro stocker) who was selling ONLY through stock agencies should not be affected?  As its the stock agency who would be taking on the sales to consumer accounting and tax.  Can anyone guide please?  Am I seeing this correctly or is there an impact even if one is selling only through stock agencies??

As a micro stocker with company based in Sweden, I'm wondering how all this will finally affect me :)



A very merry Christmas to you too.
From this link which was posted earlier
http://www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2014/nov/25/new-eu-vat-regulations-threaten-micro-businesses
HMRC (UK tax) says that if you are trading through a third party marketplace it will be the responsibility of the marketplace operator to account for the VAT. I'd assume other countries would take the same view. Apart from anything else we don't have access to where the sales went, or what type of buyer it is. If we sell through agencies
So it looks as if those of us selling through agencies are safe for the present moment.

As always politicians get involved in anything and revolve it in a clockwise manner along a helix. Better to make the EU a tax haven and encourage business by low taxes, rather than these nightmare bureaucratic non-solutions. Oh and sack about 90% of that lot in the European Parliament.


Personally I'd see the UK out of the EU like a shot, just because it's another layer of politicians smothering common sense.
 

« Reply #88 on: December 23, 2014, 10:49 »
0
Well, this possibly could affect us too, because buyers in the EU will need to pay more for our files


What has changed concerns the detail around the way in which the process is administered.


Yes that, plus no more VAT threshold and hiding in Ireland/Swiss.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/traders/e-commerce/index_en.htm

« Reply #89 on: December 23, 2014, 10:56 »
0
Well, this possibly could affect us too, because buyers in the EU will need to pay more for our files


What has changed concerns the detail around the way in which the process is administered.


Yes that, plus no more VAT threshold and hiding in Ireland/Swiss.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/traders/e-commerce/index_en.htm


The clients were not avoiding VAT. The clients are unaffected.

The Ireland/Swiss (?) thing does not involve clients (Switzerland is not in the EU anyhow).

The clients are not affected. They will not be paying any more for your files. They were already subject to VAT at their home rate.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 10:58 by bunhill »

« Reply #90 on: December 23, 2014, 11:13 »
0
I was talking about suppliers registered in Ireland/Swiss.
ALL Agencies will HAVE TO collect VAT from it's buyers in 28 EU States.


WHAT ARE THE CURRENT RULES?

Currently, a company located in one of the European Union countries (EU) providing telecommunication, broadcasting or electronic services to private customers (B2C) in one of the EU countries, must pay VAT in the EU country of its establishment. This means that if a company is located in Cyprus and supplies telecommunication, broadcasting or electronic services to private customers in the EU, it has to pay 19% Cyprus VAT for the revenue collected from these customers in the different EU countries.

WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE AS FROM 1 JANUARY 2015?

Based on this new VAT rule, an EU Company must pay VAT in the EU country of establishment of its customers. In the above example, the Cyprus Company will have to pay different VAT rates applicable in each of the EU countries where its private customers are located. This means for example that the Cyprus company will need to pay 19% Cyprus VAT for the fees collected from its Cyprus private customers, 25% Swedish VAT from its Swedish private customers and 18% Maltese VAT from its Maltese customers, etc.

In principle this new rules mean that if you have private customers in each of the 28 EU countries, you will need to register for VAT in each of the 28 EU countries, file VAT returns in each of these 28 countries and charge local VAT with different rates in each of the 28 countries. Such a rule actually already applies towards non - EU service providers.


MINI ONE STOP SHOP (MOSS)

To reduce the VAT administrative burden for the EU service provider as from 1 January 2015, the new VAT rules provide the possibility for the EU service provider to apply for the so-called Mini One Stop Shop (MOSS) scheme. Under this MOSS scheme, the EU service provider can under certain conditions opt to report its EU VAT liability in one of the EU country only. For Cyprus service providers, this means that under certain strict conditions they can opt to file the VAT returns for their supplies to private customers in the 28 EU countries with the Cyprus tax authorities only. It should however be noted that the Cyprus service provider must take into account the applicable VAT rates in the countries of the buyers for reporting and payment of the VAT due.

As mentioned above, MOSS is an optional scheme for businesses and a business may choose to register in each EU Member State if it wishes. However, if MOSS is used then it must be applied in all applicable Member States (it is not optional on an individual Member State by Member State basis). The only exception to this is when a business also has an establishment in another EU Member State. In that instance, those supplies should be declared on a domestic VAT return in that country, not via MOSS.

« Reply #91 on: December 23, 2014, 11:23 »
0
I was talking about suppliers registered in Ireland/Swiss.

The question was whether people selling through agencies would be affected. They won't. The agency is the seller/provider/supplier. Not the photographer.

if you're selling only through agencies then this won't affect you except possibly with Envato. 
Well, this possibly could affect us too, because buyers in the EU will need to pay more for our files

Clients purchasing through agencies based outside of the EU will not be paying any more for their files. They were already being charged VAT. EU clients not registered for VAT and buying from EU based agencies might pay very slightly more or less if there is a difference vs the home rate. The % difference between the states are very small.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 11:25 by bunhill »

« Reply #92 on: December 23, 2014, 19:04 »
0
Some agencies/companies with HQ in USA but also registered in Ireland/Swiss did not charge EU VAT up until now, because they didn't need to. From now on, they will need to do so!

"The question was whether people selling through agencies would be affected. They won't. The agency is the seller/provider/supplier. Not the photographer."
Well, if agency is not following the rules or need to invest in operations, this might affect their business and therefore sales and at the end of the day photographers too. It's all connected!

Happy Holidays you ALL! :-)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 15:01 by SSArtist »

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #93 on: December 24, 2014, 03:51 »
+1
Don't let the frothing, wild-eyed doomsayers scare you - the sky is not falling on January 1st except in some people's paranoid delusions.

hahahaha !!! :)

« Reply #94 on: December 24, 2014, 06:36 »
0
 :)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:43 by SSArtist »


« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2015, 00:56 »
0
I know a payment newbielink:http://www.fundagalaxys5.com/category-funda-sony-xperia-z4-181.html [nonactive] processor that handles and sales taxes on behalf of sellers of digital goods...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 20:19 by Kalinma »

« Reply #97 on: January 19, 2015, 04:48 »
0
I know a payment processor that handles and sales taxes on behalf of sellers of digital goods...

Do share if you know... :)

OM

« Reply #98 on: January 20, 2015, 07:52 »
+4
What a crazy entity the EU is. It allows individual member states to set their own rules and levels of taxation which the members then use to create competitive advantage for their own country. The fastest way to competitive advantage is to encourage large multi-national corporations to register in that country, which they do in spades, and then the EU decides that it is not pulling in enough tax (to keep the BB (Brussels bureaucracy) in the manner to which it has become accustomed).

Because the EU is unable to set a standard VAT rate throughout the EU it resorts to punishing the small/micro business community through just this sort of regulation. The big multi-nationals have had all their accounting systems in place for years to comply with these regulations...ever tried to buy a Photoshop CS digital download in USD at the US price if you're in Europe? Bought a subscription package from a major stock agency in the US? You pays the or price including VAT. Herein also lies the advantage for VAT registered businesses....no VAT to pay by giving your registration number. Not registered? Then you pay more.

For the little people (that the BB's don't even know exist) this new/old law simply means more expense, more administration and reduced earnings and that's only when compliance is a viable option. For many it means closing the business but as you didn't exist anyway, it's no problem for the BB's.

As many laws and regulations in the US are written, for the most part, by the K-Street lobbyists, I have to wonder who was really responsible in the EU for concocting these (for micro business) apparently unworkable regulations? To me, they certainly appear to be advantageous to the global corporations by squeezing out the small guy.

« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2015, 07:03 »
+3
A unilateral suspension of the introduction of the new EU VAT laws for micro businesses and sole traders!

http://euvataction.org/take-action-now/sign-the-petition/

Petition to sign. Almost there... 7833 signatures needed.


 

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