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Author Topic: Can I consider it as a compliment from Mr. Arcurs ?  (Read 15795 times)

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« on: March 19, 2009, 12:03 »
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this one

newbielink:http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-16269358-young-attractive-couple-at-the-beach-focused-front-view.html [nonactive]

aaaaaaaand this one


newbielink:http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-26763061-rear-view-of-a-young-couple-standing-together-on-the-beach-with-their-scandals-left-behind.html [nonactive]



bittersweet

« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 12:11 »
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FWIW, of the first two examples posted, I prefer yours. Stepping out of shoes and walking forward would result in them facing the direction shown in yours, or something more haphazard than facing neatly opposite of the direction of travel. Plus his looks like two pairs of women's shoes. Maybe that is why the caption says that they've left their "scandals" behind.


tan510jomast

« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 12:41 »
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dimmu, in art , there is nothing new under the sun. i am a musician and was doing music way before i even started photography. and many times, i have heard the same thing copied from robert johnson, elmore james, tchaikovsky, chopin, charlie parker. examples: led zeppelin, fleetwood mac, beatles, antonio carlos jobim, and almost 90% of jazz music. also charlie parker "stole" from gershwin, and cole porter.
in 1980's when i was playing in vancouver ( i worked and travel all across canada. and is now settled in the extreme east. cannot go any farther)..
anyway, i got really mad when someone "stole" my music i uploaded to mp3.com . i was one of the first indie musicians when mp3 started (in fact , that was how "tan510jomast" became my nickname.  only it was tan510 as a blues composer.
i was in the blues charts of mp3  as high as #5).
 ok, back to my point, i complained this to a fellow musician who was much younger than me.
his wise reply was, "it's not important to be the first, only to be the best".

i think that speaks volumes to all of us.  don't worry. if yours is in fact the best,
the buyers will show you.
cheers. (sorry i wrote so much. it's a looooong story, an old one. but a good one. something i always remember till this day, as you can see).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 12:45 by tan510jomast »

digiology

« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 13:35 »
0
FWIW, of the first two examples posted, I prefer yours. Stepping out of shoes and walking forward would result in them facing the direction shown in yours, or something more haphazard than facing neatly opposite of the direction of travel. Plus his looks like two pairs of women's shoes. Maybe that is why the caption says that they've left their "scandals" behind.

Well it seems we have a "sandal scandal" on our hands.  :D Ok, not really. I assume it is a mistake in yuri's caption. I thought it sounded funny none the less.  ;D

Out of the four examples posted in this thread I prefer Dimmu's also. Good luck with future sales!

tan510jomast

« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 15:53 »
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(edited for point)
 Plus his looks like two pairs of women's shoes. Maybe that is why the caption says that they've left their "scandals" behind.

or OT, maybe the man is gay. that could happen too ;)
when i worked part-time in a departmental store, we find many gay men choosing feminine things for themselves.

« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 16:43 »
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dimmu, in art , there is nothing new under the sun. i am a musician and was doing music way before i even started photography. and many times, i have heard the same thing copied from robert johnson, elmore james, tchaikovsky, chopin, charlie parker. examples: led zeppelin, fleetwood mac, beatles, antonio carlos jobim, and almost 90% of jazz music. also charlie parker "stole" from gershwin, and cole porter.
in 1980's when i was playing in vancouver ( i worked and travel all across canada. and is now settled in the extreme east. cannot go any farther)..
anyway, i got really mad when someone "stole" my music i uploaded to mp3.com . i was one of the first indie musicians when mp3 started (in fact , that was how "tan510jomast" became my nickname.  only it was tan510 as a blues composer.
i was in the blues charts of mp3  as high as #5).
 ok, back to my point, i complained this to a fellow musician who was much younger than me.
his wise reply was, "it's not important to be the first, only to be the best".

i think that speaks volumes to all of us.  don't worry. if yours is in fact the best,
the buyers will show you.
cheers. (sorry i wrote so much. it's a looooong story, an old one. but a good one. something i always remember till this day, as you can see).


More than the fact that there's a lot of plagiarism (at microstock and other venues) what annoys me is this attitude "it's normal, there's nothing new under the sun", etc that appears to be a passport to copy everithing that can sell, instead of being creative, and a very good hiding point for people that doesn't want or can be creative, a free pass for mediocrity. Because, if "there's nothing new under the sun", does that mean that mean that I can took your portfolio and rip off all your bestsellers?

« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 16:50 »
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I have a few times really believed to have a new and different idea, That after a quick search turned out to be false.   Should I dont do it then?   

tan510jomast

« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 17:26 »
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loop, i do not condone plagiarism. as you read my comment, i was a victim too.
but the point my colleague made was there isn't much you can do about it. so instead of me worrying over something i cannot change or control, it's more constructive and less destructive on myself to exert my energy to keep creating and not try to police on the society at large.
if there is a solution to stop someone copying me, or you, i will be the first person you will get to back you up. if not, i will just create my own niche, which will inevitably be "copied" by someone else. or as magnum said, perharps i wasn't even the first one to create it if i made a thorough search of the web to see .
i cannot stop you from "stealing" , i can only stop me from wasting my time looking for you to "steal".

« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 17:57 »
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What some people really don't understand is... copying.

Dear fellow members, your life - what do you know, what do you say, what you are is copied from others. Very first from your parents. This is how you fit yourself in the community. The way to become original is the "creative copying" of another things, persons, ideas, behaviors, etc. Some people think that "creative copying" of others is originality. It can be, the truth is that the originality is a complex process of comparisons between you and the others, the successful result of the healthy knowledge of what is aesthetic for others and what not, generally saying, what is a good thing and what is a wrong.
Jumping over the "creative copying" the result is the flat 1:1 copying. It's the easiest way. Not so successful people copy the successful ones because the not successful want to be successful. Simple.
Everything is relative.
Being so creative means that you always add something new to old things so you create something new. Please accept the fact that many others will copy you. Please accept that this is the way of life. It's the way of evolution, this is how the species survive, one member copies the another and the successful behavior survives, the unsuccessful dies.
For those who make problems of being copied I recommend to not upload their works so others can't see their work so it cannot be copied.
Please understand the above in positive approach. I totally reject stealing. Illustrating an idea is an amorph thing, everybody can say "the original idea was mine" but sadly this means "I used first this idea". This doesn't means that you own the idea.

« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 18:52 »
0
What some people really don't understand is... copying.

Dear fellow members, your life - what do you know, what do you say, what you are is copied from others. Very first from your parents. This is how you fit yourself in the community. The way to become original is the "creative copying" of another things, persons, ideas, behaviors, etc. Some people think that "creative copying" of others is originality. It can be, the truth is that the originality is a complex process of comparisons between you and the others, the successful result of the healthy knowledge of what is aesthetic for others and what not, generally saying, what is a good thing and what is a wrong.
Jumping over the "creative copying" the result is the flat 1:1 copying. It's the easiest way. Not so successful people copy the successful ones because the not successful want to be successful. Simple.
Everything is relative.
Being so creative means that you always add something new to old things so you create something new. Please accept the fact that many others will copy you. Please accept that this is the way of life. It's the way of evolution, this is how the species survive, one member copies the another and the successful behavior survives, the unsuccessful dies.
For those who make problems of being copied I recommend to not upload their works so others can't see their work so it cannot be copied.
Please understand the above in positive approach. I totally reject stealing. Illustrating an idea is an amorph thing, everybody can say "the original idea was mine" but sadly this means "I used first this idea". This doesn't means that you own the idea.

That's just sophism. It's like saying that knowing that everybody has to die sooner or later, murdering shouldn't be a crime. Plagiarism, as stated in the law, is a theft.

That said, I've been copied a number of times. In some of these cases, the issue has been resolved by means I won't comment know.  But it's true that other times, at least at microstock industry, resolving the matter is difficult. For these cases, I'm considering Plan B. Wich consists in:

1) Flood the microsite with different versions of your original file. Re-shot, upload a number of them. That will dilute the plagiarist's benefits and increase yours.

2) Go to the plagiarist folder to have a look at his bestsellers. Maybe, some time, he has had an good idea, and being as he is in sharing mode, probably  he won't mind you copying --improved, with better model, props and/or gear-- and uploading several versions.

I still haven't done movement nuber 2, but I'm very tempted. The only problem is that when I've gone to the plagiarist folder often I've discovered that his best selling files are copied as well of other photograhers.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 18:56 by loop »

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2009, 19:24 »
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So you're very tempted to go #2, eh?

tan510jomast

« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2009, 19:50 »
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everyone here has a point , pro and con. each is valid. so i won't plagiarize your idea to make my point

but going back to mantonino. which came first, the chicken or the egg? so to speak.
all in all, i think dimmu work is wonderful. and so is Mr. Arcurs.
but, and this is just it... BUT regardless of who copied whom, i cannot see Mr Arcurs
spending his time looking through our portfolios to see if he can copy anything from us.  based on my own timeframe, i don't even look to see if anyone "stole" my images when the forum annouced to check. i don't have the time to make even 1000 images a month like many of you.
so, if i don't even have the time to check if anyone is stealing my images, although i don't know why they would want to. ha!ha!..    simply because i don't have the time,
Mr. Arcurs is working a thousandfold more than me producing his works.
I CANNOT SEE HIM REALLY FINDING TIME JUST TO LOOK AT YOUR WORK, OR MY WORK TO PLAGIARIZE AN IDEA.

if we asked him, i am sure he would show us the original inspiration of "his" idea.
and it no doubt would not be dimmu's.  no offense  meant , dimmu.

« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2009, 20:19 »
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There is a concept called faut-faire (must-do), shots of situations that are so common or so compelling that many photographers did it and will do it. For instance a cliff-hanger, a businessman hanging over the edge of a tall skyscraper, the couple in the sunset on a beach and the proverbial girl-with-headset. Those are not considered as plagiarism, as outlined in the Copyright Education essay of PACA.

It's also preposterous that a busy, innovative and successful businessman like Arcurs would scavenge the ten thousands of portfolios online for concepts. Sandals on a beach are so obvious anybody hanging around there in a hammock and fiddling his cam at some point had the temptation to shoot it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 20:23 by FlemishDreams »

« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2009, 21:36 »
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Here's another example.... my image which was once near the top of the best match rankings on IS

Another contributors image...


Coincidence? Yeah probably its one of the most famous landmarks in Japan.

I'd say the same about the initial posts in this thread though...

« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 15:11 »
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I'm with you on this one Flemish.  That's a pretty bold accusation to make on a fairly generic themed image that is similar but certainly not a duplicate. 


There is a concept called faut-faire (must-do), shots of situations that are so common or so compelling that many photographers did it and will do it. For instance a cliff-hanger, a businessman hanging over the edge of a tall skyscraper, the couple in the sunset on a beach and the proverbial girl-with-headset. Those are not considered as plagiarism, as outlined in the Copyright Education essay of PACA.

It's also preposterous that a busy, innovative and successful businessman like Arcurs would scavenge the ten thousands of portfolios online for concepts. Sandals on a beach are so obvious anybody hanging around there in a hammock and fiddling his cam at some point had the temptation to shoot it.

helix7

« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 15:39 »
0
...It's also preposterous that a busy, innovative and successful businessman like Arcurs would scavenge the ten thousands of portfolios online for concepts. Sandals on a beach are so obvious anybody hanging around there in a hammock and fiddling his cam at some point had the temptation to shoot it.

Right on.

Dimmu is out of line on with this accusation.




 

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