Author Topic: My day with Yuri Arcurs (Read 16465 times)

fotorob · « **on:** December 09, 2008, 06:36 »

On Saturday, Fotolia organized a workshop with Yuri Arcurs and invited me to blog about it.

So here it is, my blog-entry about the day with Yuri and some helpful tipps (in German though):
http://www.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de/2008/12/09/ein-tag-mit-microstock-fotograf-yuri-arcurs/

Here a translation in english with BabelFish:
http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de%2F2008%2F12%2F09%2Fein-tag-mit-microstock-fotograf-yuri-arcurs%2F&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen

Bye, Robert

Mellimage · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2008, 06:45 »

That was a truly interesting read.

grp_photo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2008, 06:55 »

Interesting that he outsourced to india.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2008, 07:28 »

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

grp_photo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2008, 07:35 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Make its profitable in the future he is making himself a name as succesful microstocker and a good teacher after that he will publish a book about it which may is a good seller.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2008, 07:38 »

Yes, sorry, you're right. I was so surprised that I forgot my theory that he's transitioning into a consulting position, and also taking percentages from those in his "distribution network". I just remembered the complaints in the other thread recently, but maybe that was just ranting against iStock.

ichiro17 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2008, 08:30 »

Quote from: grp_photo on December 09, 2008, 07:35

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28
If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Make its profitable in the future he is making himself a name as succesful microstocker and a good teacher after that he will publish a book about it which may is a good seller.

huh?

grp_photo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2008, 09:04 »

Quote from: ichiro17 on December 09, 2008, 08:30

Quote from: grp_photo on December 09, 2008, 07:35
Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28
If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Make its profitable in the future he is making himself a name as succesful microstocker and a good teacher after that he will publish a book about it which may is a good seller.

huh?

I wrote "Make" but meant "Maybe" better to understand now?

pixelbrat · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2008, 10:48 »

I was able to get a better translation through Google if anyone is interested. I found the other translation a bit tough to read. It's not perfect but a bit better.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstockfotografie.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F12%2F09%2Fein-tag-mit-microstock-fotograf-yuri-arcurs%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en

mantonino · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2008, 12:33 »

Great read.

Karimala · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2008, 22:11 »

Quote from: mantonino on December 09, 2008, 12:33

Great read.

With a lot of food for thought. Thanks for a great article, Rob!

AVAVA · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2008, 23:34 »

Hi All,

This is a bit of a rant, you have been notified.....

Have you ever noticed whenever there is a Yuri post there is always some form of what I like to call " Yuri Envy ". It always surprises me that this takes place. It seems to be limited but it happens almost every time.
If Yuri had personally offended someone then I could understand a little bitterness I guess but why do some feel threatened by this one guy. He is great at what he does and he seems to offer a lot of helpful advice for FREE. He is always trying something new to increase profit and reduce overhead at the same time sharing those ideas with all of us for FREE. I guess I just don't get it. He was helping people long before he realized there might be profit in it.
I can tell you why his images sell better than any exclusive at Istock. He is a better shooter, better at understanding the buyers needs and especially better at how to promote his Brand. There will always be a Tiger Woods or a Michael Jordan in the game. It is the same in Macro stock. There are some guys I know that just make more money than I do, they are better at their craft. I think these people should inspire you and push you to do better work. I know they do that for me and always will.
All I can guess is that some people are just easily threatened and that's a shame. You are all great photographers in your own right and there is no one that can stop you from being the next Yuri of Micro, except for yourself. Don't see him as anything but a mark to shoot for if you wish, or a mentor if you find his information helpful. There is nothing wrong with having mentors. I have had a few in my life and they have all been a great asset.

Just my opinion,
Best,
AVAVA

bittersweet · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2008, 00:28 »

I have found that people tend to assume that most people have the same value set as themselves. Therefore, if they themselves would not help another person succeed without expecting something in return, it is very hard for them to comprehend that someone else might have that ability or inclination.

Not saying that is the case here, of course. Just a general observational statement based on my limited life experience.

AVAVA · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2008, 00:34 »

Hi Whatalife,

That is a very good observation I will keep that one. I especially like the sentence you have at the bottom of your posts. I think in a way it reflects a bit on what I am speaking of. Great statement! I had never noticed it until this post.

Best,
AVAVA

jjauregui · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2008, 01:05 »

Quote from: AVAVA on December 09, 2008, 23:34

Hi All,

This is a bit of a rant, you have been notified.....

Have you ever noticed whenever there is a Yuri post there is always some form of what I like to call " Yuri Envy ". It always surprises me that this takes place. It seems to be limited but it happens almost every time.
If Yuri had personally offended someone then I could understand a little bitterness I guess but why do some feel threatened by this one guy. He is great at what he does and he seems to offer a lot of helpful advice for FREE. He is always trying something new to increase profit and reduce overhead at the same time sharing those ideas with all of us for FREE. I guess I just don't get it. He was helping people long before he realized there might be profit in it.
I can tell you why his images sell better than any exclusive at Istock. He is a better shooter, better at understanding the buyers needs and especially better at how to promote his Brand. There will always be a Tiger Woods or a Michael Jordan in the game. It is the same in Macro stock. There are some guys I know that just make more money than I do, they are better at their craft. I think these people should inspire you and push you to do better work. I know they do that for me and always will.
All I can guess is that some people are just easily threatened and that's a shame. You are all great photographers in your own right and there is no one that can stop you from being the next Yuri of Micro, except for yourself. Don't see him as anything but a mark to shoot for if you wish, or a mentor if you find his information helpful. There is nothing wrong with having mentors. I have had a few in my life and they have all been a great asset.

Just my opinion,
Best,
AVAVA

Well put AVAVA! You hit on the nail.

DanP68 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2008, 03:18 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe. People like Bryan Peterson and Lou Manna train photographers every month through Adorama, and I doubt either one is worried that their students will take their business away from them.

It's kinda like NBA stars giving clinics to high school ballers, teaching them their moves and suggesting training regimens. Just because you know how to eat right, train, and do a cross over dribble in traffic, does not mean you have the talent to take Kobe Bryant to the hoop.

People with talent will rise to the top whether Yuri trains them or not. People without talent (like yours truly) will always be a mid tier competitor, no matter what Yuri instructs me to do.

Neustock Media · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2008, 03:38 »

Quote from: jjauregui on December 10, 2008, 01:05

Quote from: AVAVA on December 09, 2008, 23:34
Hi All,

This is a bit of a rant, you have been notified.....

Have you ever noticed whenever there is a Yuri post there is always some form of what I like to call " Yuri Envy ". It always surprises me that this takes place. It seems to be limited but it happens almost every time.
If Yuri had personally offended someone then I could understand a little bitterness I guess but why do some feel threatened by this one guy. He is great at what he does and he seems to offer a lot of helpful advice for FREE. He is always trying something new to increase profit and reduce overhead at the same time sharing those ideas with all of us for FREE. I guess I just don't get it. He was helping people long before he realized there might be profit in it.
I can tell you why his images sell better than any exclusive at Istock. He is a better shooter, better at understanding the buyers needs and especially better at how to promote his Brand. There will always be a Tiger Woods or a Michael Jordan in the game. It is the same in Macro stock. There are some guys I know that just make more money than I do, they are better at their craft. I think these people should inspire you and push you to do better work. I know they do that for me and always will.
All I can guess is that some people are just easily threatened and that's a shame. You are all great photographers in your own right and there is no one that can stop you from being the next Yuri of Micro, except for yourself. Don't see him as anything but a mark to shoot for if you wish, or a mentor if you find his information helpful. There is nothing wrong with having mentors. I have had a few in my life and they have all been a great asset.

Just my opinion,
Best,
AVAVA

Well put AVAVA! You hit on the nail.

Hear Hear!!!!

fotorob · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2008, 04:42 »

Dan Heller wrote some other reasons why it makes sense to help other photographers in his blog here:
http://danheller.blogspot.com/2005/07/asking-pros-for-advice-about-pricing.html

Bye,
Robert

thesentinel · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:27 »

Envy?

I'm sure the bulk of any envy, if there be any, would be his access to a gene pool of blond haired clear skinned models who ate a lot of dairy products when young and have great teeth and above average height as a result.

Fran · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:57 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

It makes a lot of sense to me: tutoring is an excellent marketing tool and improves his brand. He has a lot more to gain from this than what he's losing from competition in my opinion.

Quote from: AVAVA on December 09, 2008, 23:34

All I can guess is that some people are just easily threatened and that's a shame. You are all great photographers in your own right and there is no one that can stop you from being the next Yuri of Micro, except for yourself. Don't see him as anything but a mark to shoot for if you wish, or a mentor if you find his information helpful. There is nothing wrong with having mentors. I have had a few in my life and they have all been a great asset.

I totally agree with you. I've read a lot and I had some great teachers in my main profession (which is programming videogames) and I spend a substantial amount of my time back to writing on books (for free), conferences, answering emails, discussing ideas with people. Doing it doesn't give me any money, and I don't have a brand to create cause I'm selling nothing else than my workforce, but I think I owe this to the community I learnt from in the past and, even more important, when I'm explaining a technique or discuss it with someone, it becomes clearer to me to cause I'm forced to break assumptions. Mentoring others is a great tool to improve yourself. And if you are good at what you do, competition is usually not a problem. So I'm totally against the idea that "giving advices is helping competition".

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:37 »

Quote from: Fran on December 10, 2008, 05:57

It makes a lot of sense to me: tutoring is an excellent marketing tool and improves his brand. He has a lot more to gain from this than what he's losing from competition in my opinion.

Sure, it improves your brand if you're selling to photographers. I just don't see how buyers care about who he trains to do what. That's why it seems like he's moving to a consultancy position to other photographers.

Quote

And if you are good at what you do, competition is usually not a problem. So I'm totally against the idea that "giving advices is helping competition".

And I still disagree. If you are training people to do exactly what you do, don't expect them to not compete with you. I answer plenty of email questions about lighting, and cameras and 3d, but I don't believe in completely training someone to take over for me. There's one contributor I know on iStock who uses his models, shoots in his place, and uses his "network". Her stuff looks exactly like his. So, when she makes a sale, she's likely taking a sale that would have been his. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Fran · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:48 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 10, 2008, 07:37

Sure, it improves your brand if you're selling to photographers. I just don't see how buyers care about who he trains to do what. That's why it seems like he's moving to a consultancy position to other photographers.

I think we are talking general brand awareness here.

Quote

And I still disagree. If you are training people to do exactly what you do, don't expect them to not compete with you. I answer plenty of email questions about lighting, and cameras and 3d, but I don't believe in completely training someone to take over for me. There's one contributor I know on iStock who uses his models, shoots in his place, and uses his "network". Her stuff looks exactly like his. So, when she makes a sale, she's likely taking a sale that would have been his. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, we don't really know if he's teaching absolutely everything he knows. I surely don't do it in my field even if I give out a lot.

crazychristina · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:48 »

It's probably his girlfriend, Cecilie. He mentioned somewhere that she is an istock contributor.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2008, 10:43 »

Oh, yeah it is. I guess they can buy each other nice Christmas presents then

AVAVA · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2008, 11:25 »

Sentinel,

I totally agree. I can't find a model that blonde and bright in my neighborhood. But remember he is also limited to that model type a bit more in his area. He will not have as strong an Asian community or strong African American community or Latino. Just an interesting point in Macro last year Latinos where moving up the list for usage more than any other ethnicity.
Use what you've got at home there is a good chance others don't have your resources. As for dating maybe take a holiday to the land of the blondes.

Best,
AVAVA

AVAVA · « **Reply #25 on:** December 10, 2008, 12:12 »

Hi All,

It has been a standard in the arts ( as well as crafts ) that when you reach a certain level of success that you give back to the community ( theatre, film, music, art, photography ). That is my belief, I don't expect this sort of thing from people just starting but once you are lucky enough to become successful at your profession what harm is there in giving back. It doesn't show much faith in your abilities to grow in your skill if you covet what you have in fear of others taking it from you.
I personally started teaching photography at the same school I studied 2 years after graduating. I have been showing in detail what I do to many people for almost 20 years, through workshops and seminars and college classes. I have grown as my skills have grown. Not many of the people I have taught have made it as far up the ladder but some have come close and over the next decade some will pass me, it has been a great feeling watching them grow. For me that is a big part of what this journey is all about.
How has that affected me. I am in the top 50 money makers at Getty images. I am not trying to brag with this statement just trying to make a point with this stat because I think it shows that sharing your ideas doesn't conflict with your successs it actually makes it stronger.
I also have the confidence that I can keep improving my craft and that whatever I teach will be interpreted differently and as they learn what I am sharing I am off learning something new. Keeps you fresh and stops you from being stagnant in your style. One style will only take you so far and I think any good photographer will continue to improve along with those he or she teaches. I would say my style even photographic direction has made a radical change every 7-10 years.
But this has deviated a bit about the original post. It was people that try to Slam Yuri for his own choice, how insecure is that. Believe in yourself and there is nothing that can stop you. I really like what some of you have posted about teaching or giving back.
Fran you make a really good point about learning your craft through teaching others. There has always been a saying in America : Those who can do and those who can't teach " I completely disagree with this statement. I learn so much more than any student I have had just by trying to better understand what I had to explain. We both grow through the process.
As for it hurting Yuri, I wouldn't worry to much about Yuri he is a shaker and a mover he is connecting with all the right people ( I am watching it take place ) and he will not be slowed down. That takes a special person with the right circumstances and especially the right amount of confidence and determination.
AS for you Danp68 I don't want to hear that from you " I will never be " unless you are on your death bed there is always opportunity waiting for all of us it just takes hard work and patience. I think in 2012 we will all be wanting to know your secrets, so get out there and make it happen. I believe you can.

If any of you are offering others advice through direct e-mails about how to light and shoot I think that is great but please make those posts here for everyone to enjoy that would be awesome and very helpful.

Best,
AVAVA

fotorob · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:31 »

It also says in my article that his images sell especially well in countries like Greece, Norway or Germany, probably because of his blonde models...

DanP68 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:41 »

Quote from: AVAVA on December 10, 2008, 12:12

AS for you Danp68 I don't want to hear that from you " I will never be " unless you are on your death bed there is always opportunity waiting for all of us it just takes hard work and patience. I think in 2012 we will all be wanting to know your secrets, so get out there and make it happen. I believe you can.

Hey - You can't tell me what to do! Oh wait...thanks.

Seriously Avava, I sincerely appreciate the positive influence you exert on this forum. I know I'm not the only one who feels the same way. We could use a few more like you. If you are ever in the northeast US and want to entertain a student for a day, I'll be there. And I promise not to use your secrets to take your business. I promise not to take Sean's either.

Fran · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2008, 06:54 »

Quote from: AVAVA on December 10, 2008, 12:12

Hi All,

It has been a standard in the arts ( as well as crafts ) that when you reach a certain level of success that you give back to the community ( theatre, film, music, art, photography ). That is my belief, I don't expect this sort of thing from people just starting but once you are lucky enough to become successful at your profession what harm is there in giving back. It doesn't show much faith in your abilities to grow in your skill if you covet what you have in fear of others taking it from you.
I personally started teaching photography at the same school I studied 2 years after graduating. I have been showing in detail what I do to many people for almost 20 years, through workshops and seminars and college classes. I have grown as my skills have grown. Not many of the people I have taught have made it as far up the ladder but some have come close and over the next decade some will pass me, it has been a great feeling watching them grow. For me that is a big part of what this journey is all about.
How has that affected me. I am in the top 50 money makers at Getty images. I am not trying to brag with this statement just trying to make a point with this stat because I think it shows that sharing your ideas doesn't conflict with your successs it actually makes it stronger.
I also have the confidence that I can keep improving my craft and that whatever I teach will be interpreted differently and as they learn what I am sharing I am off learning something new. Keeps you fresh and stops you from being stagnant in your style. One style will only take you so far and I think any good photographer will continue to improve along with those he or she teaches. I would say my style even photographic direction has made a radical change every 7-10 years.
But this has deviated a bit about the original post. It was people that try to Slam Yuri for his own choice, how insecure is that. Believe in yourself and there is nothing that can stop you. I really like what some of you have posted about teaching or giving back.
Fran you make a really good point about learning your craft through teaching others. There has always been a saying in America : Those who can do and those who can't teach " I completely disagree with this statement. I learn so much more than any student I have had just by trying to better understand what I had to explain. We both grow through the process.
As for it hurting Yuri, I wouldn't worry to much about Yuri he is a shaker and a mover he is connecting with all the right people ( I am watching it take place ) and he will not be slowed down. That takes a special person with the right circumstances and especially the right amount of confidence and determination.
AS for you Danp68 I don't want to hear that from you " I will never be " unless you are on your death bed there is always opportunity waiting for all of us it just takes hard work and patience. I think in 2012 we will all be wanting to know your secrets, so get out there and make it happen. I believe you can.
If any of you are offering others advice through direct e-mails about how to light and shoot I think that is great but please make those posts here for everyone to enjoy that would be awesome and very helpful.

Best,
AVAVA

Very inspiring. Thanks

iclick · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2008, 07:25 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Well now lets think about this ... rather suspect that it is because He is pretty confident about dealing with his compitition and rightly so with his talent and set up I dont think He has an awful lot to fear from many

AVAVA · « **Reply #30 on:** December 11, 2008, 11:14 »

Hi Dan68,

You can come visit our neck of the woods I'll share all my secrets with you because I'll tell you a little secret, come here close... There are no secrets. SSHHH! don't tell anyone, it will uncover the myth that we are all really talented.

Best,
AVAVA

icefront · « **Reply #31 on:** December 11, 2008, 13:33 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Discendo discimus.

AVAVA · « **Reply #32 on:** December 11, 2008, 13:54 »

I think anyone afraid of competition is just unsure of their own abilities to compete. But that is just my opinion. Nice addition Icefront. I think it is spelled " Docendo discimus " or " We learn by teaching " beautiful, and I couldn't agree more.

Best,
AVAVA

NikonScott · « **Reply #33 on:** December 11, 2008, 16:54 »

In the medical profession there is a mantra, watch one, do one and teach one. This is almost the major tenet in medicine and many other areas.

I know from teaching while I was in graduate school many many years ago taught me almost more than i have learned in my entire 4 years of undergrad training. I have continued teaching my entire professional years (I shoot very part time) and I continue to learn every year and see new insites from looking at the material one more time, and then there are the questions the students as that can really give you ideas and insite.

Moral of the story, teach and you will learn and grow more than you would otherwise. Besides the more good deeds you do with your community the more good things will happen for you.

Scott

Pheby · « **Reply #34 on:** December 12, 2008, 00:06 »

I think most of what Yuri shares with others isn't so much about his techniques and lighting and things like that - most of it is about what stockphotography actually is supposed to be. Things you can't copy but you must have understood before being successful in this field. So I'm not sure that he's training his own competitors. I have learned quite a bit of useful stuff from him in my first six months in the business, although I have never produced images of people (only food so far - the fish are much more patient with a beginner like me).

Also - I teach university students (I'm a research linguist) and enjoy that very much. Beyond the subject itself I love to help these chaotic people find their way through the crazy institution. From a more general point of view I think it's very human - at a certain point in life - to want to begin to give after you have taken from others. Of course it is also a marketing tool to make tutorials - but in wondering why people put themselves out doing things like that, I have come to the conclusion that they might just be decent people. So maybe Yuri's just a decent guy (eventhough he has a very strange notion of "natural", I must say).

Verena · « **Reply #35 on:** December 12, 2008, 04:50 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 09, 2008, 07:28

If he's so concerned with dropping profits, I'm still surprised he's going around training his competition. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote from Yuri´s homepage:

"Why share? Having been reading this, you might wonder: Why would he share this information with me? Why would he give any such information to a potential competitive photographer? Well the case is this: I believe in complete information sharing. I don’t hold anything back and have no problem giving away my secrets to new photographers. This was how I was introduced myself to stock by my mentor and this is the mind-set I prefer. I can give you a helping hand and a few good micro guides, but you will have to do the hard work yourself."
(http://www.arcurs.com/what-should-i-shoot-and-what-sells-well)

download · « **Reply #36 on:** December 12, 2008, 12:09 »

Quote from: whatalife on December 10, 2008, 00:28

I have found that people tend to assume that most people have the same value set as themselves. Therefore, if they themselves would not help another person succeed without expecting something in return, it is very hard for them to comprehend that someone else might have that ability or inclination.

Not saying that is the case here, of course. Just a general observational statement based on my limited life experience.

While I agree with this statement to a degree, there are also plenty of wide-eyed optimists (perhaps myself included) that have been burned by seemingly well-meaning people that they have developed a healthy skepticism. Fool me twice, shame on me.

However, my gut reaction is that Yuri is an extremely talented person who actually enjoys sharing his knowledge up to the point where it could do his own business harm and I appreciate the information that he has been willing to share.

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