MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Am I doing OK with micro stock?  (Read 28885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

vonkara

« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2010, 15:31 »
0
I always thought there is some microstock photographers, who actually spend near, even or more than what they earn. If that shoot above was for microstock or something similar, then LOL.


ShadySue

« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2010, 16:00 »
0

Talking production budgets how much do you think it would have cost to have set this one up? All you need is a derelict housing estate in Glasgow, 70,000 litres of paint and about 800 bombs and mortars ... for 60 seconds of footage. Oh, and quite a bit of creative talent too.

Sony Bravia Paint Ad


I just love that ad. I'm pretty sure there are at least some details of how they did it on a website, maybe Sony's website.
I saw it first at the pictures, and it was just stunning on the Big Screen. Incredibly, I knew instantly it was Glasgow (OK it's only about 30 miles away, but I only go to the city centre or West End, and had never been to that area.)

Yup:
Phoenix Fireworks
BBC
AAASK
I found several links to the info on Sony's site that must be the one I saw before, but it's no' there noo!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 16:14 by ShadySue »

« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2010, 16:12 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.

« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2010, 16:17 »
0
Speaking of costs, I just saw this on a blog.  $80k just for props and wardrobe?  Out of country models?  Looking at the video, methinks costs may be a wee bit too high.

http://stevecoleblog.com/2010/06/14/production/


Methinks he could be exaggerating a teeny bit about the costs.  ;)
But airfare, hotel costs, rental of both studio and studio equipment can add up quickly.
Not to mention dog food for the pooch.

« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2010, 16:20 »
0
Aside from calculating your NET income, you should seriously start figuring out how long it takes your average shoot to reach a return on investment (ROI)... something many part time stock shooters don't pay any attention too. Given the way the economy is currently going, I'd aim for the fastest ROI possible. 10-12 months is not an unusual timeline for many shooters to hit their ROI. How long it takes you depends on how much content you can pump out in one shoot, type of content, the total cost of production, how strong an agencies sales are, etc...

ShadySue

« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2010, 16:31 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.
That's true. I came home raving to my husband about the 'incredible paint advert' I'd seen and when I found it online I was astonished to find it was a TV advert!!!
Still the advert was better than the film, even though it, as so often with adverts, it didn't serve its purpose.
Awhile ago in the UK, they got David Bailley to advertise some consumer film camera. One that I remember had some punter asking him to use their camera to take their photo. Rather than just doing a quick shap, he was hamming up getting a 'creative' shot. The punchline was, predictably, "Who do you think you are - David Bailley?"  The campaign was all over TV, magazines, goodness knows what. But most people, when asked for a survey, couldn't even name correctly the brand of camera he was plugging.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 19:06 by ShadySue »

« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2010, 16:43 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.

It probably has far more to do with building the brand name and associating it with creativity and culture rather than just trying to flog a telly. Note how little we see of the actual product.

A friend who worked at a high level in advertising once explained that if you (as an individual) don't like an advert then you weren't meant to __ you weren't the target market.

That particular advert is my personal favourite. Everything hits the spot from the drama, the music, the colours, the camerawork and the creative quirkiness of the clown. Unfortunately I prefer Panasonic over Sony!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 16:45 by gostwyck »

RT


« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2010, 17:57 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2010, 18:11 »
0
Everyone has expenses. The point was to look at your profits closely. I run a pretty standard business model and if I'm spending $800,000 on expenses then that means I'm looking at generating a $40 million income for me to be meeting the percentages in my business plan. You spend money to make money .. that's one of the best rules ever but it was never meant to be taken as you spend a ton of money just to make a little of it back. That's called losing money.

Put it this way, if I give you a million dollars and you take it to the casino and and hour later walk out the door with 200K in your pocket ... did you make a wise decision or a foolish one?

You're saying a 20% profit is losing money and then comparing sales revenue and profits to gambling?  

You should be a financial advisor  ;)

« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2010, 18:24 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

You haven't, its just a difference in opinion about what constitutes a good profit. He does make a valid point though, some shooters yield higher profit margins than others because they simply know how to control their costs better, or perhaps simply increase their gross sales without adding costs.

ShadySue

« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2010, 19:09 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

You haven't, its just a difference in opinion about what constitutes a good profit. He does make a valid point though, some shooters yield higher profit margins than others because they simply know how to control their costs better, or perhaps simply increase their gross sales without adding costs.

Still, it's better than 1000 gross - 10 costs = 990 profit. It's all about the bottom line.

« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2010, 20:04 »
0
$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

Well, reduce your costs in 10% and you increase your earnings in 40%.

But I guess the spirit of the comment was (correct me if I am wrong), if your production costs are high, US$3500 a month may not be enough to give a good return and make one give up the full time job.

« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2010, 20:25 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2010, 20:31 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul

« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2010, 20:56 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul
I'm not talking about a website or any other market. I'm talking about photography. You are going to take $800K out of pocket .. and wait a year so you can make a $200K profit and be happy ??? As a photographer that's just insane !!!


« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2010, 21:12 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul
I'm not talking about a website or any other market. I'm talking about photography. You are going to take $800K out of pocket .. and wait a year so you can make a $200K profit and be happy ??? As a photographer that's just insane !!!

What are you saying?  Come on!

There would be absolutely NO LOST at all!   Would you be sad with the $200.000 profit ?  

 


« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2010, 21:28 »
0
I guess I don't understand either. Aren't you spending that 800k to grow your business from say a million a year to 2 or 3? I could see if your business isn't growing, then you may just be throwing that 800k away, but the simple solution for that in stock is to stop producing. Live on your residuals or focus your business somewhere else.

I'm just not understanding the logic in not spending money to grow your business and produce new images. I think during a recession if you can grow your business and still come away with enough profit to live comfortably, then you are doing it right.

« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2010, 22:08 »
0
Fair enough. although I'd be curious to know what net margins really are in photography.

also, I think the idea is that if you can get to $1M in revenue, if you cut production to zero, your profits skyrocket. If you can scale and maintain RPI, I think the idea is sound.

My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.
Too many photographers simply look at the amount of the check being handed to them and don't think much beyond that ... and those are the ones who you hear about for a couple years and then they fade away all because they couldn't realize that their profits were actually a loss. By then it's too late.

What are you saying?  Come on!

There would be absolutely NO LOST at all!   Would you be sad with the $200.000 profit ?  
A 200K profit on a year long investment of 800K .. I wouldn't be sad at all. I'd be F^*#$ Furious !!! I'm not talkin screaming mad. I'd be that not talking to anyone, standing outside smoking a cigarette staring into space don't even dare go near him mad. LOL

« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2010, 22:32 »
0
If you invest $800K, then gross $1 million, you have not lost money. You have made back your original investment, and then an extra $200K on top.

Something worth pointing out is that, assuming this all took place in the course of one fiscal year, if your business is stock photography for example (royalties based), you still have an additional 3-4 years of pure profit sales to look forward too. If you can maintain roughly 1 million gross each year after the startup year, I'd say you've done a GREAT job investing.

RT


« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2010, 03:20 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

You're confusing yourself (again) going back to your original example, if you start out with $800,000 capital and you turn that into $1,000,000 you've made a profit of $200,000 (which incidently is a 25% profit not 20% as you originally stated) you haven't lost any money from the original capital. Many people have pointed this out to you but I guess you just don't get it.

Percentages mean absolutely nothing, it's the nett return that is the most important thing.

A 25% profit from a $800,000 investment would make any investment banker smile, in fact most of the worlds businesses don't make that sort of profit margin.

My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Randy you do not make 4000% profit or anywhere near it, based on even the most modest of photography businesses that would mean you were making millions in profit each year, I don't think you understand how business profit works because if you did you certainly wouldn't make a statement like that, must admit though it did give me my morning laugh - thanks.

Of course I may be wrong, you might get your studio rent for free, free camera, free studio equipment, free electricity, free computer & software, free consumables, free stationary, free web hosting, free props, and everything else you need to make a photo for free including rates and taxes.  :D
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 04:00 by RT »

« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2010, 03:22 »
0
I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Do you realise what you are saying? That means if you have a nominal overhead of say $1000 per month for your studio, equipment, printing, etc then you have to be generating $41K per month to maintain a profit margin of 4000%.

To achieve your 'original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%' you would need to generate $850K per year with an overhead of just $12K.

« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2010, 03:51 »
0
I think Randy's just thrown a bait out for you all to bite at.

if you can consistently return 7000% on investment of capital then you should be retired by now. (and also the richest person in the world)

I think your just saying that your earning a good effective hourly rate for you work and you keep your overheads low. Both good things. Your business model is probably quite profitable for you and without some of the risks that some of the high end producers are taking.

Add $200 per hour for your own time onto the equation an you will soon see that 25% ROI is pretty good.

% returns calculations aren't really useful unless your comparing exactly the same business model.

* looks like I took the bait aswell. :)
 

lisafx

« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2010, 09:04 »
0


My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Randy, with profit margins like that , don't you get slaughtered by the IRS? 

I take a big tax beating every year because my expenses are only 15% of my revenues, but with your margins you must be getting killed on taxes! 

Unless I am missing something, or unless the profits you are telling us are different from the ones you are reporting??

« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2010, 10:10 »
0
Getting slaughtered is part of the biz!  A SEP-IRA will help a bit with that.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
4932 Views
Last post November 24, 2014, 09:10
by KimsCreativeHub
28 Replies
6164 Views
Last post May 01, 2012, 12:46
by lagereek
6 Replies
1473 Views
Last post December 12, 2014, 08:43
by Beppe Grillo
0 Replies
1546 Views
Last post February 15, 2016, 15:35
by granitepeaker
18 Replies
3206 Views
Last post March 15, 2016, 15:29
by PixelBytes

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results