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Author Topic: Artificial Intelligence killing the whole industry  (Read 11801 times)

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« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2022, 12:34 »
+4
Starting to see the first images produced by AI software appearing at the top of searches. It's noted in the image description.

When looking at their ports, they have 100+ pages, 50 of which have been submitted literally within the last month or so and earlier work in the port that looks very average. This is going to be the new mass spamming

I seriously can see this damaging the business significantly. If it's allowed then we'll all have to do it to keep up and then the agencies will be stuff to the rafters with imagery that all has the same look and feel with all the other work buried underneath it. Concerning times ahead I think.


« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2022, 13:38 »
+2
I tried midjourney where all is done in the public Discord channel & also put online so everyone can see both your "art" and the prompts used. As I was working on a concept, someone right after me simply copied my prompt verbatim and made a similar image. This is sort of encouraged, though they tell you to add your own words to the prompt.

I liked some of the stylized background rendered and am thinking about how to combine it with my own hand-painted work using my pen tablet in PS. I was working with a fantasy theme so didn't render anything realistic and nearly ran out of my free time.

It was fun to play around, but overall it's a distressing development - and I agree it will only get better and easier to use.

« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2022, 14:24 »
+1
I think the idea of using elements of AI imagery in illustrations would be good idea. My main concern as it stands at the moment is the spamming. If people are able to submit work in the 1000's very quickly it is likely to cause problems with imagery being found as we've seem with other types of spamming. Agencies are likely to be swamped

For now, I've emailed agencies to see if they're happy to receive images produced by AI software straight or used in your own work. I don't want my port locked, suspended for behaviour which they deem is outside there T&C's. Passing review is one thing as reviewers may not be aware of what they're passing so I'd rather hear from contributor support about it.

I know Getty Images no longer accepts any submissions created using AI generative models (e.g., Stable Diffusion, Dall-E 2, MidJourney, etc.). That's ALL images as models refers to the AI modelling software used. I'd rather make sure before investing any time on it. It'll be interesting to see what they say!

Edit -
"As I was working on a concept, someone right after me simply copied my prompt verbatim and made a similar image. This is sort of encouraged, though they tell you to add your own words to the prompt. "

I was just reading the iStock/Getty forums and this came up. People were able to generate images that would look the same or very similar. If you submit work to an agency there is a reasonable chance that other people will end up with similar images in their own portfolios, especially if this is encouraged at the point of creation.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 14:50 by HalfFull »

« Reply #103 on: September 29, 2022, 05:52 »
+2
Mass production is part of the AI.
The computers don't need to rest, take a coffee break.
Even if AI doesn't prevail it will still be a competitor.  Something that didn't exist a few year ago.

« Reply #104 on: September 29, 2022, 06:27 »
0
I tried midjourney where all is done in the public Discord channel & also put online so everyone can see both your "art" and the prompts used. As I was working on a concept, someone right after me simply copied my prompt verbatim and made a similar image. This is sort of encouraged, though they tell you to add your own words to the prompt.

I liked some of the stylized background rendered and am thinking about how to combine it with my own hand-painted work using my pen tablet in PS. I was working with a fantasy theme so didn't render anything realistic and nearly ran out of my free time.

It was fun to play around, but overall it's a distressing development - and I agree it will only get better and easier to use.
You can remove images from the server as soon as you make them

« Reply #105 on: September 29, 2022, 16:05 »
+1
I thought the time would come when you'll be able to make video clips from AI art or turn stills into moving image. It looks like it's happening way faster than I thought.
https://makeavideo.studio/
Remember the above link is still in its infancy.

It's a double-edged sword for me. I'm really excited by this new way of creation and think how I can involve and evolve my skills into AI (which I'm doing) but also acknowledge that this will have a big impact on our industry (I've been a full-time stock video producer or 12+ years).

Exciting but also a daunting time ahead. We must evolve people to keep up with the pace as it will not ever slow down.

« Reply #106 on: September 29, 2022, 18:57 »
0
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

Could I just tell it to draw fom my folder of my images, to avoid copyright problems? Might be a way to create some new images to sell but not having to shoot any more.

I know about Dall-E and midjourney, what are some other brands? Anyone recommend one that theyve used?

« Reply #107 on: September 29, 2022, 19:12 »
0
Mass production is part of the AI.
The computers don't need to rest, take a coffee break.
Even if AI doesn't prevail it will still be a competitor.  Something that didn't exist a few year ago.

once again, that's not how these AI engines work!  they generate a few images based on human input & the results need human post processing & editing metadata


my latest submissions:

   
DT   21 of   34
SS   34 of   34
AS   18 of 18

for AS 16 were rejected as needing a release, even though others in the batch were accepted!

« Reply #108 on: September 30, 2022, 00:50 »
+2
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

The AIs don't "scrap" the internet to create images. Images from the internet were used to train the AI to create images on its own. So the "scrapping" process already took part when the AI was programmed.
At least DALL let's you upload your own image to modify it, but you can't have it re-trained based on your own images.

« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2022, 02:22 »
+1
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

Could I just tell it to draw fom my folder of my images, to avoid copyright problems? Might be a way to create some new images to sell but not having to shoot any more.

I know about Dall-E and midjourney, what are some other brands? Anyone recommend one that theyve used?

With midjourney you can upload your own image and it will use this to draw it's reference from. You can add a weight prompt to tell it what % to reference your image. So if your weight is high it will look very similar to your original image. Not sure if you can upload more than 1 image at any 1 time. I haven't got that far yet  :D

« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2022, 05:54 »
+4
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

The AIs don't "scrap" the internet to create images. Images from the internet were used to train the AI to create images on its own. So the "scrapping" process already took part when the AI was programmed.
At least DALL let's you upload your own image to modify it, but you can't have it re-trained based on your own images.

Again, so they say. Their code is not transparent and they will protect it as propriety. The images they output up till recently would occasionally had identifiable watermarks from the stock agencies in them. They were saying the same thing then. So the app was and is copy pasting to some extent (lets call it what it is as calling it AI is really meaningless; when is something become AI). It has just gotten better at hiding its sources. The rest is just buzz words.

Its not copy pasting, its creating new images again is pretty meaningless. Thats how copy pasting on a computer always works. You convert it to ones and zeros and output a new images at the other end. You can run as many filters and warps on it as you like, it is still using other peoples work to come up with the new images.


« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2022, 05:55 »
+1
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

Could I just tell it to draw fom my folder of my images, to avoid copyright problems? Might be a way to create some new images to sell but not having to shoot any more.

I know about Dall-E and midjourney, what are some other brands? Anyone recommend one that theyve used?

With midjourney you can upload your own image and it will use this to draw it's reference from. You can add a weight prompt to tell it what % to reference your image. So if your weight is high it will look very similar to your original image. Not sure if you can upload more than 1 image at any 1 time. I haven't got that far yet  :D

The results coming out of Midjourney are mind blowing. The remaster feature is crazy.

« Reply #112 on: September 30, 2022, 05:59 »
+1
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

The AIs don't "scrap" the internet to create images. Images from the internet were used to train the AI to create images on its own. So the "scrapping" process already took part when the AI was programmed.
At least DALL let's you upload your own image to modify it, but you can't have it re-trained based on your own images.

Again, so they say. Their code is not transparent and they will protect it as propriety. The images they output up till recently would occasionally had identifiable watermarks from the stock agencies in them. They were saying the same thing then. So the app was and is copy pasting to some extent (lets call it what it is as calling it AI is really meaningless; when is something become AI). It has just gotten better at hiding its sources. The rest is just buzz words.

I was the one who pointed out the watermark issue above, so I am well aware. It has nothing to do with the AI "copying & pasting" pieces of image, but with the fact that the AI had so many watermarked images to train with, that it simply "learned" that this is part of the image. It doesn't understand what a "dog" is. Show it 10.000.000 watermarked Shutterstock images of dogs and it will think that dogs have watermarks.

« Reply #113 on: September 30, 2022, 06:46 »
0
Thank you for all the answers. I have a better idea of how it works. So the software you buy already has learned and is based on images from the internet programmed in.

Sounds promising, something fun to play with, and you might get a good image out of it. The watermark copyright issues are concerning, and some of the images posted here so far arent good. The desk with coffee cup, apple, etc. are bad. Ill go have a look to see other examples.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 06:55 by cathyslife »

« Reply #114 on: September 30, 2022, 06:48 »
0
Question about the AI software itself. Can you specify a folder of artwork to draw from, or does it always just scrape the internet?

Could I just tell it to draw fom my folder of my images, to avoid copyright problems? Might be a way to create some new images to sell but not having to shoot any more.

I know about Dall-E and midjourney, what are some other brands? Anyone recommend one that theyve used?

With midjourney you can upload your own image and it will use this to draw it's reference from. You can add a weight prompt to tell it what % to reference your image. So if your weight is high it will look very similar to your original image. Not sure if you can upload more than 1 image at any 1 time. I haven't got that far yet  :D

The results coming out of Midjourney are mind blowing. The remaster feature is crazy.

Ill go have a look at this one, thanks.

« Reply #115 on: September 30, 2022, 06:51 »
+4

I was the one who pointed out the watermark issue above, so I am well aware. It has nothing to do with the AI "copying & pasting" pieces of image, but with the fact that the AI had so many watermarked images to train with, that it simply "learned" that this is part of the image. It doesn't understand what a "dog" is. Show it 10.000.000 watermarked Shutterstock images of dogs and it will think that dogs have watermarks.

I get how it works. It isn't alive though. What you call "learning" I call copying. Though what we call it is irrelevant really. The fact is they appropriated our intellectual property to make their product. Without our keywords and images they have no product regardless.

« Reply #116 on: September 30, 2022, 11:40 »
+1

The AIs don't "scrap" the internet to create images. Images from the internet were used to train the AI to create images on its own. So the "scrapping" process already took part when the AI was programmed.
At least DALL let's you upload your own image to modify it, but you can't have it re-trained based on your own images.

Again, so they say. Their code is not transparent and they will protect it as propriety. The images they output up till recently would occasionally had identifiable watermarks from the stock agencies in them. They were saying the same thing then. So the app was and is copy pasting to some extent (lets call it what it is as calling it AI is really meaningless; when is something become AI). It has just gotten better at hiding its sources. The rest is just buzz words.

Its not copy pasting, its creating new images again is pretty meaningless. Thats how copy pasting on a computer always works. You convert it to ones and zeros and output a new images at the other end. You can run as many filters and warps on it as you like, it is still using other peoples work to come up with the new images.

just because you don't trust a source is no justification to libel them with your unsupported claims, especially when those opinions are presented as 'facts'

and you continue to pose the false narrative that these AI are copying images to create new ones. Even those agencies banning AI do not make that unsupportable claim. instead, they are concerned about the training of AI which is an entirely different issue


« Reply #117 on: September 30, 2022, 12:01 »
0
..
I get how it works. It isn't alive though. What you call "learning" I call copying. Though what we call it is irrelevant really. The fact is they appropriated our intellectual property to make their product. Without our keywords and images they have no product regardless.
you're setting strawman arguments: No one is claiming AI is 'alive'.   it's 'artificial' intelligence, not a human neural system. 'calling' it copying doesnt make it so.  your implied definition of AI doesnt conform with any objective definition. 
the question of copyright appropriation is a separate problem from the question of AI

AI results already are impressive:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2018/04/30/27-incredible-examples-of-ai-and-machine-learning-in-practice/?sh=4f56ffdd7502



other examples include

 Deep Blue, netflix recommendations

Google's AlphaGo beats non-masters without knowing the rules of the game

AlphaFold has excellent results better than any other approach in solving the problem of protein folding



« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 12:05 by cascoly »

« Reply #118 on: September 30, 2022, 12:36 »
+5
and you continue to pose the false narrative that these AI are copying images to create new ones. Even those agencies banning AI do not make that unsupportable claim. instead, they are concerned about the training of AI which is an entirely different issue

Then how do you think this works?

Let's take for example the picture that was supposed to be a 19th century naval battle that you created some some ago with the AI. How do you think the AI created this? Clearly it did not learn what a naval battle is, because the picture did not show one. So either it looked on the spot for pictures with a 19th century naval battle in description or keywords and created a similar image, or what it thought is similar or else during the training most of the information from the images the AI was treined must have been written into a massive database and then the AI created the image from that information. Either way, it used more or less directly existing images to create your images. What other way is there?

Clearly the Ai did not make the jump to understand the images it was trained to understand that a naval battle requires ships fighting with each other in water, so it could not for example create a photo realistic image with water and sailing ships, but the style of the image clearly showed that it was created with old oil paintings a a basis. The AI was not able to abstract from that.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 15:08 by Big Toe »

SVH

« Reply #119 on: September 30, 2022, 15:17 »
+4
I don't want to be the guy thinking of smart words of creating an great AI image.

I want to be the guy that that takes a photo of an actual landscape, person or happening. I want to be thinking about composition, light and technique or maybe even having the lucky opportuntiy to take a once in a lifetime shot when a rare situation occurs.

Sorry, that I am not embracing the future with all of it's new capabillities, like DALL-E, but I think it will be a total waste of human's capabillities and good things will truly get lost by it.

It will be really sad if AI programmes could reach the point that they would replace us (by using our work to begin with).

« Reply #120 on: September 30, 2022, 16:08 »
+2
I don't want to be the guy thinking of smart words of creating an great AI image.

I want to be the guy that that takes a photo of an actual landscape, person or happening. I want to be thinking about composition, light and technique or maybe even having the lucky opportuntiy to take a once in a lifetime shot when a rare situation occurs.

Sorry, that I am not embracing the future with all of it's new capabillities, like DALL-E, but I think it will be a total waste of human's capabillities and good things will truly get lost by it.

It will be really sad if AI programmes could reach the point that they would replace us (by using our work to begin with).

I see AI as a new means of adding to my creative inputs. You (we) still need the traditional skills as we always will but like all of technology from the first camera obscure to the digital ones we have today. They are tools to capture a moment in time or to capture a thought or inspiration. I see AI as a new tool to help us generate something that could have been impossible or out of reach before it was invented. My thoughts on using AI is exactly like this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAy0NlGesOE
I think combining both traditional skills with AI is mindblowing and such a time saver.

« Reply #121 on: September 30, 2022, 16:13 »
+3
and you continue to pose the false narrative that these AI are copying images to create new ones. Even those agencies banning AI do not make that unsupportable claim. instead, they are concerned about the training of AI which is an entirely different issue

Then how do you think this works?

Let's take for example the picture that was supposed to be a 19th century naval battle that you created some some ago with the AI. How do you think the AI created this? Clearly it did not learn what a naval battle is, because the picture did not show one. So either it looked on the spot for pictures with a 19th century naval battle in description or keywords and created a similar image, or what it thought is similar or else during the training most of the information from the images the AI was treined must have been written into a massive database and then the AI created the image from that information. Either way, it used more or less directly existing images to create your images. What other way is there?

Clearly the Ai did not make the jump to understand the images it was trained to understand that a naval battle requires ships fighting with each other in water, so it could not for example create a photo realistic image with water and sailing ships, but the style of the image clearly showed that it was created with old oil paintings a a basis. The AI was not able to abstract from that.

I don't want to beat around the bush but all art is copied (influenced) from somewhere else. Music is famously known for it. If I had to make a 19th century naval battle the first thing I'd do is google and look at all the pictures and see how they were composed, mood, structure etc. Let's be honest who wouldn't? Before the internet, I'm sure many an artist would walk into galleries and research and study other painters' techniques.
The way we need to use this new means of creation is to add it to our bucket of already made skills and create something unique. That's the way I see it anyways.

« Reply #122 on: September 30, 2022, 18:48 »
0
and you continue to pose the false narrative that these AI are copying images to create new ones. Even those agencies banning AI do not make that unsupportable claim. instead, they are concerned about the training of AI which is an entirely different issue

Then how do you think this works?

Let's take for example the picture that was supposed to be a 19th century naval battle that you created some some ago with the AI. How do you think the AI created this? Clearly it did not learn what a naval battle is, because the picture did not show one. So either it looked on the spot for pictures with a 19th century naval battle in description or keywords and created a similar image, or what it thought is similar or else during the training most of the information from the images the AI was treined must have been written into a massive database and then the AI created the image from that information. Either way, it used more or less directly existing images to create your images. What other way is there?

Clearly the Ai did not make the jump to understand the images it was trained to understand that a naval battle requires ships fighting with each other in water, so it could not for example create a photo realistic image with water and sailing ships, but the style of the image clearly showed that it was created with old oil paintings a a basis. The AI was not able to abstract from that.

again, unsupported assumptions tending towards conspiracy theories- that's not how machine learning operates, and your claim DALL-E copies other images is specifically denied by open-ai.  you may choose not to believe them, but that doesn't justify your claiming to know how the image is created.

the point is that the AI doesn't know anything 
Of shoes and ships and sealing-wax
      Of cabbages and kings
And why the sea is boiling hot
      And whether pigs have wings.'


like the other examples i mentioned, the AI is not mimicking a human

« Reply #123 on: September 30, 2022, 18:54 »
0
I don't want to be the guy thinking of smart words of creating an great AI image.

I want to be the guy that that takes a photo of an actual landscape, person or happening. I want to be thinking about composition, light and technique or maybe even having the lucky opportuntiy to take a once in a lifetime shot when a rare situation occurs.

Sorry, that I am not embracing the future with all of it's new capabillities, like DALL-E, but I think it will be a total waste of human's capabillities and good things will truly get lost by it.

It will be really sad if AI programmes could reach the point that they would replace us (by using our work to begin with).

sad or not, you keep using the same arguments painters used against photography - yet painting hasn't disappeared. creative destruction means you either adopt the new technology or find a way to make photography relevant in an AI age.  you describe making 'art' but we're talking about producing stock images. 

agribusiness forced out many smaller farmers. those who survived found new approaches - organics, buy-local, heritage veg, etc
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 18:58 by cascoly »

« Reply #124 on: September 30, 2022, 18:58 »
0

I see AI as a new means of adding to my creative inputs. You (we) still need the traditional skills as we always will but like all of technology from the first camera obscure to the digital ones we have today. They are tools to capture a moment in time or to capture a thought or inspiration. I see AI as a new tool to help us generate something that could have been impossible or out of reach before it was invented. My thoughts on using AI is exactly like this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAy0NlGesOE
I think combining both traditional skills with AI is mindblowing and such a time saver.

In The Third Man, Orson Welles character Harry Lime says, In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.


 

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