MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Lagereek on August 14, 2012, 01:33
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I have kept a very close eye on this for the past 5 months, plus some friends have also done the same. RM, RF, Micro. Our three main outlets. RM and RF, are without doubt catching up and fast, the actual quantity of sales is increasing a lot. Somebody I know had a staggering 72, smaller RM sales in the last month and a half, for being RM, thats a staggering quantity. My own observation is exactly the same.
Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Could it be? for all non serious buyers there are ofcourse millions of what we call pro buyers, regular buyers and they have the budgets, weather its 20 bucks, 100 or more. well, to save themselves from todays obvious hassle with the micro industry, are they reverting back to more traditional searching and buying? where customer relations are friendlier and more professional, etc.
The only RM/RF, agency where I have not seen increase is Alamy, all the others show a huge rise in smaller quantity sales. For the first time Im seeing small, RM/RF, sales of around 50-70 dollars and frankly thats not much more then an xxl sale at IS or a single sale at SS.
anybody else here with the same views or thoughts?
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...Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Is it? I think there might be a problem with over supply but my earnings seem fairly stable. The sites don't seem to be seeing a decrease, look how much FT was sold for. Who would spend that much on a site in a decreasing market. There's lots of people here complaining about a fall in sales but check back in October and it will probably be different. There always seems to be lots of moaning about sales this time of the year. And how many people here have a relatively small portfolio that's trying to compete with people like Yuri?
It's a shame that alamy hasn't seen a pick up in RM sales, that's the only site I'm using for RM. Perhaps it's time I looked elsewhere but I really like using them and will persist for a few more months. They might of seen an increase in RM sales but there's so many images, its not made a difference to individual contributors. There's a few people reporting much improved sales but not many. Hopefully the changes they're working on will bring in more buyers.
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...Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Is it? I think there might be a problem with over supply but my earnings seem fairly stable. The sites don't seem to be seeing a decrease, look how much FT was sold for. Who would spend that much on a site in a decreasing market. There's lots of people here complaining about a fall in sales but check back in October and it will probably be different. There always seems to be lots of moaning about sales this time of the year. And how many people here have a relatively small portfolio that's trying to compete with people like Yuri?
It's a shame that alamy hasn't seen a pick up in RM sales, that's the only site I'm using for RM. Perhaps it's time I looked elsewhere but I really like using them and will persist for a few more months. They might of seen an increase in RM sales but there's so many images, its not made a difference to individual contributors. There's a few people reporting much improved sales but not many. Hopefully the changes they're working on will bring in more buyers.
Well yes ofcourse its decreasing, one doesnt have to look in their sales-ledgers, its enough just listening to all the sales threads in every single micro agency. Alamy, well, its a great agency and very friendly but they have their special and very,very regular buyers, mainly European and I bet som 70%, but sceneics and landscapes. Not my nieche. Apart from that, great agency. Theres always been moaning and groaning but this time its just too many ppl, too many threads, etc.
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It is worth bearing in mind that people doing well don't tend to report in the sales threads, nothing in it for them except more competition.
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Pointless thread. Every single person has their own unique perspective on this depending on their circumstances. And one thing that's certain on this forum is most people are in the "my glass is half empty" camp, so it's always a biased view. Except maybe Lagereek who flip flops on everything. No doubt he writes these threads to distract everyone from actually creating stock. You got me for 2 minutes. bugger :)
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...Could it be? for all non serious buyers there are ofcourse millions of what we call pro buyers, regular buyers and they have the budgets, weather its 20 bucks, 100 or more. well, to save themselves from todays obvious hassle with the micro industry, are they reverting back to more traditional searching and buying? where customer relations are friendlier and more professional, etc...
I've always suspected that the different markets could coexist, and micro wouldn't ever really swallow up RF or RM. RM will always exist because of the need of some buyers to have tight control over the images they use, limiting competitor use of the same image, etc. If anything, RM should theoretically see improvements on the basis of micro becoming more popular, and the increased likelihood of the same image image being used by many companies/buyers. Companies more concerned about seeing the image they used in an ad appearing elsewhere at the same time will always need RM, moreso now than ever before.
Even traditional RF can be viewed this way. I used to work at an agency that bought mostly from istock, but used Getty for the more high-end clients just to reduce the chances of seeing an overly used microstock image in their marketing and advertising, and then used RM for the really crucial high-end stuff. That or custom shoots for the really big clients (major credit card companies and such).
It's just different markets, and I think all of them are very necessary and will always be needed. Micro is doing well for me. I don't do RM and the closest thing to traditional RF I'm doing is Alamy, which is actually also showing signs of improvement. But in a way it isn't surprising. I still think these different markets can exist independently of each other, and although they are affected negatively by each other in some ways, in other ways they are helped by the existence of each other.
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Except maybe Lagereek who flip flops on everything.
It's probably the Lager that does it.
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Except maybe Lagereek who flip flops on everything.
It's probably the Lager that does it.
On the other hand the 'eek' seems more likely to be the culprit to me
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I have kept a very close eye on this for the past 5 months, plus some friends have also done the same. RM, RF, Micro. Our three main outlets. RM and RF, are without doubt catching up and fast, the actual quantity of sales is increasing a lot. Somebody I know had a staggering 72, smaller RM sales in the last month and a half, for being RM, thats a staggering quantity. My own observation is exactly the same.
Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Could it be? for all non serious buyers there are ofcourse millions of what we call pro buyers, regular buyers and they have the budgets, weather its 20 bucks, 100 or more. well, to save themselves from todays obvious hassle with the micro industry, are they reverting back to more traditional searching and buying? where customer relations are friendlier and more professional, etc.
The only RM/RF, agency where I have not seen increase is Alamy, all the others show a huge rise in smaller quantity sales. For the first time Im seeing small, RM/RF, sales of around 50-70 dollars and frankly thats not much more then an xxl sale at IS or a single sale at SS.
anybody else here with the same views or thoughts?
It seems that IS was on its way to domination until the sale. Then the hammer was dropped and the goal at IS was to squeeze out short term gains to beef up the next sale. It may have backfired. The biggest problem is the artist that should be featured are crowed out by too much inferior work. It should have been managed like RM as far as who could get in and stay in. No sales and a lot of files gets you kicked off. Like they do at a record label. Also they allow too much "non stock photos" as far as quality. Why is Istock so particular in the vetting process to join and then the inspectors allow garbage to fill up the servers. Also for a couple of years Yuri and monkey were dominating the best match as a non-exclusive. Might as well advertised under these photos "cheaper at SS". IS was using these people to mark up their profits for the next sale. But it took a lot out of the momentum. Istock was a freight train and it takes a lot of time to stop one of these when they at peak speed. Maybe people are tired of wading through the mountains of garbage to find a cheap deal.
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty.
each and every agency is sort of "specialized" on something, people thinking about exclusivity should really think
twice about it unless their specific niche is really selling like hotcakes in that specific agency.
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
Yeah, but it's hard to get the peanuts in the envelopes. ;D
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
Yeah, but it's hard to get the peanuts in the envelopes. ;D
I find it's easiest if you mash them into peanut butter and then coat the inside of the envelope ;D
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
Yeah, but it's hard to get the peanuts in the envelopes. ;D
I find it's easiest if you mash them into peanut butter and then coat the inside of the envelope ;D
That's genius! My bill collectors are going to be so happy now.
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
Yeah, but it's hard to get the peanuts in the envelopes. ;D
I find it's easiest if you mash them into peanut butter and then coat the inside of the envelope ;D
big big fan of peanuts but no thank you lol
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Pointless thread. Every single person has their own unique perspective on this depending on their circumstances. And one thing that's certain on this forum is most people are in the "my glass is half empty" camp, so it's always a biased view. Except maybe Lagereek who flip flops on everything. No doubt he writes these threads to distract everyone from actually creating stock. You got me for 2 minutes. bugger :)
Well reef, I am sorry mate but this thread is for ppl, whos been a long time in the stock business, far longer then before micro, consequently, your post is rather irrelevant. :)
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Well reef, I am sorry mate but this thread is for ppl, whos been a long time in the stock business, far longer then before micro, consequently, your post is rather irrelevant. :)
Who made you God?
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Well reef, I am sorry mate but this thread is for ppl, whos been a long time in the stock business, far longer then before micro, consequently, your post is rather irrelevant. :)
Who made you God?
How do you know how long he has been in the "Stock business". You probably have no idea who he/she is. And as this is an open forum............
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Back to the original subject.
The stock market like any business will evolve and as long as there is a demand then It will grow.
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I find it's easiest if you mash them into peanut butter and then coat the inside of the envelope ;D
try with vaseline then.
excuse me, who do you think you are ?
can't see why i even bother to reply.
classy ;D
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....Well yes of course its decreasing, one doesnt have to look in their sales-ledgers, its enough just listening to all the sales threads in every single micro agency. Alamy, well, its a great agency and very friendly but they have their special and very,very regular buyers, mainly European and I bet som 70%, but sceneics and landscapes. Not my nieche. Apart from that, great agency. Theres always been moaning and groaning but this time its just too many ppl, too many threads, etc.
Haven't most of us had a nice boost with SS this year? The only sites that are really down for me are istock and FT. That doesn't mean either of them are doing badly, unfortunately we don't have access to all the numbers. There's a lot of guessing here but really isn't that all it is? As I'm hardly producing any new microsotck images, I'm actually surprised how well my earnings have held up. And there's always lots of complaining about low sales in summer. It gets worse every year because more people hit the wall and join the complainers.
If there's still a slump after October, the fat lady can start singing but at the moment, I don't think there's any sign of her.
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Haven't most of us had a nice boost with SS this year? The only sites that are really down for me are istock and FT. That doesn't mean either of them are doing badly, unfortunately we don't have access to all the numbers. There's a lot of guessing here but really isn't that all it is? As I'm hardly producing any new microsotck images, I'm actually surprised how well my earnings have held up. And there's always lots of complaining about low sales in summer. It gets worse every year because more people hit the wall and join the complainers.
If there's still a slump after October, the fat lady can start singing but at the moment, I don't think there's any sign of her.
I tend to agree. I haven't been uploading at the majors either (for about 2 years) and things have been fairly stable. I am uploading elsewhere though, and things have been growing there. I'd say it's a mix of good and bad, but my expectations/standards have probably changed (they are higher) more than the industry actually has. If anything I would say micro isn't changing fast enough to meet the evolving needs. Maybe, that is why you see some buyers and contributors going back to traditional stock.
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Pointless thread. Every single person has their own unique perspective on this depending on their circumstances. And one thing that's certain on this forum is most people are in the "my glass is half empty" camp, so it's always a biased view. Except maybe Lagereek who flip flops on everything. No doubt he writes these threads to distract everyone from actually creating stock. You got me for 2 minutes. bugger :)
Well reef, I am sorry mate but this thread is for ppl, whos been a long time in the stock business, far longer then before micro, consequently, your post is rather irrelevant. :)
oh Lagereek, thee of little faith. You remind me that there is always the danger of falling into the dinosaur trap which many people are oblivious to. Something for everyone to consider there.
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sorry leaf but are we keeping a person that told us to F off ??
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anybody else here with the same views or thoughts?
Sorry, I missed this.
You only want replies from people who agree with your premise.
The point of that would be ...?
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classy ;D
Not much point having the a-hole on ignore if you're going to quote him anyway.
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classy ;D
Not much point having the a-hole on ignore if you're going to quote him anyway.
i see but that wasnīt my intention as you may understand, will make sure i donīt quote next time
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
That's some funny stuff right there. You're not a Getty contributor, right?
I am. And I think a lot of Getty contributors would argue that these days the peanuts there aren't much different from the peanuts in micro. And in some cases, even lower.
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Well?......... ::), very informative postings so far ::) ::)
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Is the climate changing? The climate always changes. The question is, what are the causes of the climate change.
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Is the climate changing? The climate always changes. The question is, what are the causes of the climate change.
I know, its the change of life! :D seriously, micro has become too cheap thanks to constant undercutting prices, far too cheap. Had every agency from the start, set out with realistic pricing, buyers would have no option but to pay, where else would they have gone?
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It used to be cheaper. 10c 20c and 30c commissions when I started with $1.50 being the highest price for buyers. I sometimes wonder if we wouldn't have made more by keeping things at that level and having much smaller collections.
Then they pushed the prices up, then they cut commissions, now they are trying to undercut each other to grab back volume, while the soaring collection sizes mean an ever-smaller slice of the pie for contributors.
Since the collection size can grow for ever and the total spend on stock cannot grow at anywhere near that rate, the trajectory for individual earnings is obvious.
What I would like to see is if the slump in earnings potential has reached the point where it is depressing supply. Has anybody kept track of the size of any of the main collections to see if the number of images being added each month has peaked or not?
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sorry leaf but are we keeping a person that told us to F off ??
+1 on that. Is this person really still here? Hopefully just a temporary oversight. Don't want to see this place end up like Talk Micro.
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sorry leaf but are we keeping a person that told us to F off ??
+1 on that. Is this person really still here? Hopefully just a temporary oversight. Don't want to see this place end up like Talk Micro.
The user was banned yesterday and a number of posts were removed.
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What I would like to see is if the slump in earnings potential has reached the point where it is depressing supply. Has anybody kept track of the size of any of the main collections to see if the number of images being added each month has peaked or not?
SS seems to have settled at a level of accepting about 80K new images each week. That's down from their peak of 110K+ but is still around 4M new images per year. I suspect that fewer 'newbies' are uploading ridiculous numbers of similars and/or complete rubbish, in the way that they used to, perhaps because of rejections or lack of financial return for their efforts.
I'm not seeing any significant decline/growth in overall sales or income. Seems that some agencies are being far more successful than others in retaining customers and growing their market share but that is only to be expected in the more mature market of today.
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Well?......... ::), very informative postings so far ::) ::)
Yes, there have been. What's the problem? Just not getting the answers you wanted?
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What I would like to see is if the slump in earnings potential has reached the point where it is depressing supply. Has anybody kept track of the size of any of the main collections to see if the number of images being added each month has peaked or not?
SS seems to have settled at a level of accepting about 80K new images each week. That's down from their peak of 110K+ but is still around 4M new images per year. I suspect that fewer 'newbies' are uploading ridiculous numbers of similars and/or complete rubbish, in the way that they used to, perhaps because of rejections or lack of financial return for their efforts.
I'm not seeing any significant decline/growth in overall sales or income. Seems that some agencies are being far more successful than others in retaining customers and growing their market share but that is only to be expected in the more mature market of today.
I think you are doing well, then. I am starting to see shrinkage. I used to have more of an earnings spread between agencies, now it seems to be contracting so that three or four are absolutely crucial and if a couple of those go through a rough patch (as regards my sales) at the same time, then I feel it.
There was a time when diversification had protected me from fluctuations, that no longer seems to be so effective.
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What I would like to see is if the slump in earnings potential has reached the point where it is depressing supply. Has anybody kept track of the size of any of the main collections to see if the number of images being added each month has peaked or not?
SS seems to have settled at a level of accepting about 80K new images each week. That's down from their peak of 110K+ but is still around 4M new images per year. I suspect that fewer 'newbies' are uploading ridiculous numbers of similars and/or complete rubbish, in the way that they used to, perhaps because of rejections or lack of financial return for their efforts.
I'm not seeing any significant decline/growth in overall sales or income. Seems that some agencies are being far more successful than others in retaining customers and growing their market share but that is only to be expected in the more mature market of today.
Yes I dont know whats happend but during the last two days, SS have proved yet again they certainly can sell. Dont know if it was the change back to Popular ( if they did change) or not. Your right though certain agencies more then others know how to retain their customers.
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I am starting to see shrinkage. I used to have more of an earnings spread between agencies, now it seems to be contracting so that three or four are absolutely crucial and if a couple of those go through a rough patch (as regards my sales) at the same time, then I feel it.
There was a time when diversification had protected me from fluctuations, that no longer seems to be so effective.
I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
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What I would like to see is if the slump in earnings potential has reached the point where it is depressing supply. Has anybody kept track of the size of any of the main collections to see if the number of images being added each month has peaked or not?
SS seems to have settled at a level of accepting about 80K new images each week. That's down from their peak of 110K+ but is still around 4M new images per year. I suspect that fewer 'newbies' are uploading ridiculous numbers of similars and/or complete rubbish, in the way that they used to, perhaps because of rejections or lack of financial return for their efforts.
I'm not seeing any significant decline/growth in overall sales or income. Seems that some agencies are being far more successful than others in retaining customers and growing their market share but that is only to be expected in the more mature market of today.
Yes I dont know whats happend but during the last two days, SS have proved yet again they certainly can sell. Dont know if it was the change back to Popular ( if they did change) or not. Your right though certain agencies more then others know how to retain their customers.
oh so no exclusivity, you really need to make up your mind or this forum will be a mess (RF, RM, exclusive, indie, stock is dommed/alive), next time wait a little longer before starting more threads ;D
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I am starting to see shrinkage. I used to have more of an earnings spread between agencies, now it seems to be contracting so that three or four are absolutely crucial and if a couple of those go through a rough patch (as regards my sales) at the same time, then I feel it.
There was a time when diversification had protected me from fluctuations, that no longer seems to be so effective.
I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
Oh but I think lots of ppl with mature port are feeling it, just dont want to broadcast it. I know some actually. About lifestyles! thats a tough one nowdays, just look at IS, almost all black-diamonds are shooting it. Dont really know how they all can make money.
With your port though, you have managed to mix it with lots of corporate, industrial stuff. Thats great
best.
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Dont know if it was the change back to Popular ( if they did change) or not. Your right though certain agencies more then others know how to retain their customers.
The default appears to be Popular at this moment.
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
???
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
???
One with a lot of elderly people? :)
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LOL!!! ;D
But I really mean to ask the question.
For instance, you have a diamond who has sold a lot in history, but with 1000 images in his port, he is rarely uploading any new images. And you have a silver who is uploading like mad lately whose port is over 5000 in a short period. How do you fit each into the category?
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LOL!!! ;D
But I really mean to ask the question.
For instance, you have a diamond who has sold a lot in history, but with 1000 images in his port, he is rarely uploading any new images. And you have a silver who is uploading like mad lately whose port is over 5000 in a short period. How do you fit each into the category?
And the silver could be outselling the diamond too ;)
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
I'd describe a 'mature portfolio' as that from a contributor who has been uploading reasonably steadily for 5-6 years+. That's about how long it takes to hit 'the wall' when the additional sales from new uploads are largely balanced out by fewer sales from older uploads (due to additional competition since they were first uploaded). That's the point at which your income stabilises and you can only grow it by massively increasing either quantity, quality or both. A severe change in the income from a 'mature portfolio' is a much stronger indication of a change at a particular agency or the industry in general than someone who is relatively new and still growing (as that disguises the effect).
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LOL!!! ;D
But I really mean to ask the question.
For instance, you have a diamond who has sold a lot in history, but with 1000 images in his port, he is rarely uploading any new images. And you have a silver who is uploading like mad lately whose port is over 5000 in a short period. How do you fit each into the category?
And the silver could be outselling the diamond too ;)
but you are still a noob ;)
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LOL!!! ;D
But I really mean to ask the question.
For instance, you have a diamond who has sold a lot in history, but with 1000 images in his port, he is rarely uploading any new images. And you have a silver who is uploading like mad lately whose port is over 5000 in a short period. How do you fit each into the category?
And the silver could be outselling the diamond too ;)
but you are still a noob ;)
I wasn't talking about myself, but that being said I'd rather be a rich noob (silver), than a poor high ranking tog ;)
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I think the more useful images you put out there, the better you'll do. However, as Mr. Spock said "Change is the essential process of all existence." 8)
I have kept a very close eye on this for the past 5 months, plus some friends have also done the same. RM, RF, Micro. Our three main outlets. RM and RF, are without doubt catching up and fast, the actual quantity of sales is increasing a lot. Somebody I know had a staggering 72, smaller RM sales in the last month and a half, for being RM, thats a staggering quantity. My own observation is exactly the same.
Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Could it be? for all non serious buyers there are ofcourse millions of what we call pro buyers, regular buyers and they have the budgets, weather its 20 bucks, 100 or more. well, to save themselves from todays obvious hassle with the micro industry, are they reverting back to more traditional searching and buying? where customer relations are friendlier and more professional, etc.
The only RM/RF, agency where I have not seen increase is Alamy, all the others show a huge rise in smaller quantity sales. For the first time Im seeing small, RM/RF, sales of around 50-70 dollars and frankly thats not much more then an xxl sale at IS or a single sale at SS.
anybody else here with the same views or thoughts?
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
I'd describe a 'mature portfolio' as that from a contributor who has been uploading reasonably steadily for 5-6 years+. That's about how long it takes to hit 'the wall' when the additional sales from new uploads are largely balanced out by fewer sales from older uploads (due to additional competition since they were first uploaded). That's the point at which your income stabilises and you can only grow it by massively increasing either quantity, quality or both. A severe change in the income from a 'mature portfolio' is a much stronger indication of a change at a particular agency or the industry in general than someone who is relatively new and still growing (as that disguises the effect).
Great definition! I think you've hit the nail on the head. :)
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
I'd describe a 'mature portfolio' as that from a contributor who has been uploading reasonably steadily for 5-6 years+. That's about how long it takes to hit 'the wall' when the additional sales from new uploads are largely balanced out by fewer sales from older uploads (due to additional competition since they were first uploaded). That's the point at which your income stabilises and you can only grow it by massively increasing either quantity, quality or both. A severe change in the income from a 'mature portfolio' is a much stronger indication of a change at a particular agency or the industry in general than someone who is relatively new and still growing (as that disguises the effect).
Indeed! so true it could be from a textbook.
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I just want to pick up the previous discussion about Alamy. My observation is that, not only DLs, the prices have gone down drastically. One of my images was sold for a little over $100, but the print run is unlimited for both prints and e-book, the size is for 2-page spread.
...Micro, OTOH and as we all know is decreasing and thats right across the board, little doubt about that.
Is it? I think there might be a problem with over supply but my earnings seem fairly stable. The sites don't seem to be seeing a decrease, look how much FT was sold for. Who would spend that much on a site in a decreasing market. There's lots of people here complaining about a fall in sales but check back in October and it will probably be different. There always seems to be lots of moaning about sales this time of the year. And how many people here have a relatively small portfolio that's trying to compete with people like Yuri?
It's a shame that alamy hasn't seen a pick up in RM sales, that's the only site I'm using for RM. Perhaps it's time I looked elsewhere but I really like using them and will persist for a few more months. They might of seen an increase in RM sales but there's so many images, its not made a difference to individual contributors. There's a few people reporting much improved sales but not many. Hopefully the changes they're working on will bring in more buyers.
Well yes ofcourse its decreasing, one doesnt have to look in their sales-ledgers, its enough just listening to all the sales threads in every single micro agency. Alamy, well, its a great agency and very friendly but they have their special and very,very regular buyers, mainly European and I bet som 70%, but sceneics and landscapes. Not my nieche. Apart from that, great agency. Theres always been moaning and groaning but this time its just too many ppl, too many threads, etc.
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What is considered a "mature portfolio"?
I'd describe a 'mature portfolio' as that from a contributor who has been uploading reasonably steadily for 5-6 years+. That's about how long it takes to hit 'the wall' when the additional sales from new uploads are largely balanced out by fewer sales from older uploads (due to additional competition since they were first uploaded). That's the point at which your income stabilises and you can only grow it by massively increasing either quantity, quality or both. A severe change in the income from a 'mature portfolio' is a much stronger indication of a change at a particular agency or the industry in general than someone who is relatively new and still growing (as that disguises the effect).
Thanks for the answer.
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I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
Lifestyle for sure is way overcrowded - every time I submit new lifestyle images, the returns are way worse than expected. They just get buried in thousands and thousands of similars. It used to be that having models in your images would give you immediate advantage, but now it's the opposite. I also noticed that when I come up with some original spin on a lifestyle theme and get it on online, a bit later I see surprisingly similar - almost identical images in Yuri Arcurs's and other portfolios that specialize in people. The concept gets copied down to the model's hair color and style and exact face expressions. Not going to give examples here, this is unfortunately business as usual. The only consolation is that production factories are burying themselves too with this overcrowding, even though they are taking us down with them.
I am back to shooting what I like and when I like - just they way I started, at least I enjoy what I do and get some money from it... but looks like I am not getting rich off microstock after all...:)
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I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
Lifestyle for sure is way overcrowded - every time I submit new lifestyle images, the returns are way worse than expected. They just get buried in thousands and thousands of similars. It used to be that having models in your images would give you immediate advantage, but now it's the opposite. I also noticed that when I come up with some original spin on a lifestyle theme and get it on online, a bit later I see surprisingly similar - almost identical images in Yuri Arcurs's and other portfolios that specialize in people. The concept gets copied down to the model's hair color and style and exact face expressions. Not going to give examples here, this is unfortunately business as usual. The only consolation is that production factories are burying themselves too with this overcrowding, even though they are taking us down with them.
I am back to shooting what I like and when I like - just they way I started, at least I enjoy what I do and get some money from it... but looks like I am not getting rich off microstock after all...:)
If the bold statement was in Facebook -- I would like it. ;D
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I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
Lifestyle for sure is way overcrowded - every time I submit new lifestyle images, the returns are way worse than expected. They just get buried in thousands and thousands of similars. It used to be that having models in your images would give you immediate advantage, but now it's the opposite. I also noticed that when I come up with some original spin on a lifestyle theme and get it on online, a bit later I see surprisingly similar - almost identical images in Yuri Arcurs's and other portfolios that specialize in people. The concept gets copied down to the model's hair color and style and exact face expressions. Not going to give examples here, this is unfortunately business as usual. The only consolation is that production factories are burying themselves too with this overcrowding, even though they are taking us down with them.
I am back to shooting what I like and when I like - just they way I started, at least I enjoy what I do and get some money from it... but looks like I am not getting rich off microstock after all...:)
Dont think anyone is getting rich from this! its turned into a Sado masochistic pleasure for those enjoying getting flogged. :)
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I agree. Diversification last year managed to hold to 2010 levels, but that isn't helping this year. Sales down from prior year nearly every month. Summer sales shockingly bad. I am quite surprised that there are people with mature portfolios who aren't feeling this. Maybe it is that the lifestyle areas I shoot in are more overcrowded than the good niches?
Lifestyle for sure is way overcrowded - every time I submit new lifestyle images, the returns are way worse than expected. They just get buried in thousands and thousands of similars. It used to be that having models in your images would give you immediate advantage, but now it's the opposite. I also noticed that when I come up with some original spin on a lifestyle theme and get it on online, a bit later I see surprisingly similar - almost identical images in Yuri Arcurs's and other portfolios that specialize in people. The concept gets copied down to the model's hair color and style and exact face expressions. Not going to give examples here, this is unfortunately business as usual. The only consolation is that production factories are burying themselves too with this overcrowding, even though they are taking us down with them.
I am back to shooting what I like and when I like - just they way I started, at least I enjoy what I do and get some money from it... but looks like I am not getting rich off microstock after all...:)
Great post Elena! Sums up my experience and feelings exactly.
A couple of years ago I really did think I was going to get rich doing this, or at least lead a comfortable lifestyle for the foreseeable future. Now it looks like I will be lucky to hang in there a couple more years until my daughter finishes college.
Happy to hear you are back to shooting what you like! I am getting to that point too. With all the work involved in setting up lifestyle shoots- models, locations, props, etc. - it is getting harder and harder to motivate myself to do it with so little return. In my case, I don't even remember what I used to like shooting though, so may put down the camera altogether in the near future.
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I understand what you, Elena and Lisa just said but if both of you arenīt "rich", who are the rich persons doing microstock? I am saying that coz both of you are in the top 100 contributors for sure
I know everybody has different expenses (houses, kids, cars, etc) but in the end we are the ones making those expenses and need to understand where we are heading and if it is worth the run, not saying that you donīt know (I am sure a lot better than I do)
but what does "rich" mean? its relative like I have said but ainīt enough over 5k a month, over 10k to be considered rich?
if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
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With over 6000 Images in traditional RF (macro)... Through four different channels...
Definitively no increase in sales over the last 6 months. Sorry to say that.
Shutterstock is winning big time on it's subscription model and has always had a very restrictive commission policy. Cleaver business model, but problematic when it succeeds... For us...
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There is a difference between being "rich" and "middle class":) Middle class works their butts off to maintain relatively comfortable lifestyle. I you have a family and live in expensive place like Toronto, middle class income is barely enough.
My daughter is going to university in a year. I also paying her private school tuition since public education is not satisfactory. Real estate prices in Toronto are insane and getting worse, so are property and other taxes. Not to mention very high Canadian income tax. So after all with all the micro and macro income I am doing "ok", but it's a very long way to "rich":)
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I understand what you, Elena and Lisa just said but if both of you arenīt "rich", who are the rich persons doing microstock? I am saying that coz both of you are in the top 100 contributors for sure
I know everybody has different expenses (houses, kids, cars, etc) but in the end we are the ones making those expenses and need to understand where we are heading and if it is worth the run, not saying that you donīt know (I am sure a lot better than I do)
but what does "rich" mean? its relative like I have said but ainīt enough over 5k a month, over 10k to be considered rich?
if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
Interesting question...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class)
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There is a difference between being "rich" and "middle class":) Middle class works their butts off to maintain relatively comfortable lifestyle. I you have a family and live in expensive place like Toronto, middle class income is barely enough.
My daughter is going to university in a year. I also paying her private school tuition since public education is not satisfactory. Real estate prices in Toronto are insane and getting worse, so are property and other taxes. Not to mention very high Canadian income tax. So after all with all the micro and macro income I am doing "ok", but it's a very long way to "rich":)
thanks for sharing! there is also middle class in all Europe too (we use that term also) but again that is so relative, so different from country to country just like you have said there are many factors changing it and one of them is the income tax that keeps on increasing all over Europe and obvious on Canada, US and for sure all countries in planet Earth :)
just googled and the min wage for Toronto is around 10.25$ / hour, I can tell you that in Portugal we have nurses getting 4EUR and our min wage is 485 EUR
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There is a difference between being "rich" and "middle class":) Middle class works their butts off to maintain relatively comfortable lifestyle. I you have a family and live in expensive place like Toronto, middle class income is barely enough.
My daughter is going to university in a year. I also paying her private school tuition since public education is not satisfactory. Real estate prices in Toronto are insane and getting worse, so are property and other taxes. Not to mention very high Canadian income tax. So after all with all the micro and macro income I am doing "ok", but it's a very long way to "rich":)
Absolutely. I am a long way off from any reasonable definition of "rich". Rich or wealthy would be what, top 5-10% of the country? Checking median incomes in the US, I am definitely just middle class. And that's with my husband and my incomes combined.
Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
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Huh, if not for rich people's kids, how would private schools survive??
???
Lisa and Elena, you are the riches among stock photographers. No denying of that. ;D
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I understand what you, Elena and Lisa just said but if both of you arenīt "rich", who are the rich persons doing microstock? I am saying that coz both of you are in the top 100 contributors for sure
I know everybody has different expenses (houses, kids, cars, etc) but in the end we are the ones making those expenses and need to understand where we are heading and if it is worth the run, not saying that you donīt know (I am sure a lot better than I do)
but what does "rich" mean? its relative like I have said but ainīt enough over 5k a month, over 10k to be considered rich?
if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
Jonathan Klein, Jon Oringer, Sean Locke... ;D
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There is a difference between being "rich" and "middle class":) Middle class works their butts off to maintain relatively comfortable lifestyle. I you have a family and live in expensive place like Toronto, middle class income is barely enough.
My daughter is going to university in a year. I also paying her private school tuition since public education is not satisfactory. Real estate prices in Toronto are insane and getting worse, so are property and other taxes. Not to mention very high Canadian income tax. So after all with all the micro and macro income I am doing "ok", but it's a very long way to "rich":)
You may not consider yourself to be 'rich' in Toronto but you would most definitely be eye-wateringly rich in the vast majority of the world. Choosing to live in an 'insanely' expensive place and choosing private education are the life-style choices that only the 'rich' could afford to make. Real estate costs what people can afford to pay for it so, if prices are expensive in Toronto, there must be lots of wealthy people who live there.
We'll have Yuri on here next complaining that he's not 'rich' because maintaining penthouse homes in several countries, first-class air travel and owning a yacht doesn't come cheap these days ... ::)
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Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
Sorry to hear that, Lisa.
In previous years,would you have expected shoots to pay for themselves within e.g. six months?
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We'll have Yuri on here next complaining that he's not 'rich' because maintaining penthouse homes in several countries, first-class air travel and owning a yacht doesn't come cheap these days ... ::)
exactly, basically we donīt consider ourselves rich because we are used to it and think that we arenīt doing that well but in fact we have a lot more than the average, we are just spending too much once the small car ainīt enough, the house neighborhood ain't posh and the regular restaurants arenīt fancy enough, it just keeps on increasing very fast, that way most of the rich would be very poor
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This topic kind of got me thinking about a different question:
Looking at your own general climate, your work, your process, your style, etc., are you changing or not?
I don't know if this is necessarily the secret to why I'm not only doing ok year after year but I'm continuing to see growth, but I think at least part of why I manage to continue selling is that I try to reinvent my work every year. I try not to reuse anything in my vectors that wasn't made within the current calendar year. In fact, I have folders for my various reference materials and vector assets that get reused in more than one image and they're labeled by year, and I almost never pull from a previous year's folder for a new image. I also try to branch into different styles, even if they are things outside my comfort zone, and experiment with different techniques. Some work, some don't, but I'm rarely sticking with just one style of image and repeating it. The exception being the current rend with vintage labels and badges which I can't seem to stop doing. :)
I bring this up because I'm looking at my stats and historically, when I've had trouble influencing my own income, it's been at times when I either wasn't working enough or I was repeating the same stuff too much. A few years back I did well with some icon sets and then over-did it with repeating them, creating about 2 dozen sets of way too similar icons. It hurt me in the long run because I was competing with myself.
I'm wondering if maybe we're all a little too inclined to stick with what we know in this business. And as much as we like to point to the business when it comes to identifying the problems and changes, we seldom look at ourselves. I'm not saying that this explains why anyone is doing well or not. For me personally, I think it's helped me to force myself to clear the canvas often and try new things. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Have you seen any change in income based on how your work has changed?
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^^^ I agree with you. I think there's a few reasons why most of us hit an earnings wall but not being able to keep changing what we upload is probably the biggest factor. It's so easy to have a small diverse portfolio but it gets harder the longer you do this. But I do think that if the commission cuts hadn't happened, I would feel more inclined to put the hours in to microstock and work on constantly changing my style. Not knowing how much the sites are going to be paying in 5 years time has destroyed my long term plans with microstock and now I'm looking at other ways to make money from photography.
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^^^ I agree with you. I think there's a few reasons why most of us hit an earnings wall but not being able to keep changing what we upload is probably the biggest factor. It's so easy to have a small diverse portfolio but it gets harder the longer you do this. But I do think that if the commission cuts hadn't happened, I would feel more inclined to put the hours in to microstock and work on constantly changing my style. Not knowing how much the sites are going to be paying in 5 years time has destroyed my long term plans with microstock and now I'm looking at other ways to make money from photography.
I think this is true. We can always diversify what we are doing and improve our numbers in stock, but there is that problem of fighting an uphill battle. An agency can easily wipe out a whole years worth of growth with a few percentage point change. Then there is the question of whether it is right to get 20%-30& of the royalties that average out to $1 or $2. I looked at my iStock numbers at their peak and thought... if they would have paid me 50% then, I probably would not have bothered with the other agencies. They would have seemed cheap and insignificant. Obviously, that didn't happen, so I spread out to various agencies and undercut IS, myself, and pretty much everybody else. I guess I find it more frustrating than not being rich that I have something valuable and profitable that gets wasted because it keeps getting thrown in the bargain bin or trash.
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I think it's helped me to force myself to clear the canvas often and try new things. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Have you seen any change in income based on how your work has changed?
Agree with everything you say and yes, clearing the canvas often leads to new and exciting ideas.
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Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
Sorry to hear that, Lisa.
In previous years,would you have expected shoots to pay for themselves within e.g. six months?
I don't keep exact records of when shoots pay for themselves, but in past years when I uploaded a good lifestyle shoot it would sell like hotcakes pretty much off the bat and keep selling. This year they are mostly just sitting collecting dust and the occasional sale. I believe Sean has said the same thing, more or less too, along with Elena above. The market for lifestyle is just saturated, plain and simple. That, along with the cuts in royalties and the search engine jiggering are all making this business truly unsustainable.
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There is a difference between being "rich" and "middle class":) Middle class works their butts off to maintain relatively comfortable lifestyle. I you have a family and live in expensive place like Toronto, middle class income is barely enough.
My daughter is going to university in a year. I also paying her private school tuition since public education is not satisfactory. Real estate prices in Toronto are insane and getting worse, so are property and other taxes. Not to mention very high Canadian income tax. So after all with all the micro and macro income I am doing "ok", but it's a very long way to "rich":)
You may not consider yourself to be 'rich' in Toronto but you would most definitely be eye-wateringly rich in the vast majority of the world. Choosing to live in an 'insanely' expensive place and choosing private education are the life-style choices that only the 'rich' could afford to make. Real estate costs what people can afford to pay for it so, if prices are expensive in Toronto, there must be lots of wealthy people who live there.
We'll have Yuri on here next complaining that he's not 'rich' because maintaining penthouse homes in several countries, first-class air travel and owning a yacht doesn't come cheap these days ... ::)
I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
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I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
Really fantastic post! Take a heart.
Totally agree about education. My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college. It will be worth it. We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood.
A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today! We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years.
To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums. I've had three surgeries in the last three years. Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive.
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I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
Really fantastic post! Take a heart.
Totally agree about education. My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college. It will be worth it. We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood.
A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today! We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years.
To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums. I've had three surgeries in the last three years. Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive.
With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
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With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
I don't think that education and respect are mutually exclusive, even if my ex-boss seemed to think so.
I also think that whereas in the past it might have been relatively easy to get on without an education if you had an entrepreneurial spirit, and there are plenty of examples from Lord Sugar down, it's not like that nowadays in a lot of countries. Even to be a cleaner here nowadays you need to do a college course and get a certificate before many larger employers will take you on (I mean an institutional cleaner, not a 'maid'-type cleaner in a private home).
I was at a theatre performance last week, when the performer had this for a throwaway line:
"My father left school with no qualifications. Sounds trite, but just try it today!"
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With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
I don't think that education and respect are mutually exclusive, even if my ex-boss seemed to think so.
I also think that whereas in the past it might have been relatively easy to get on without an education if you had an entrepreneurial spirit, and there are plenty of examples from Lord Sugar down, it's not like that nowadays in a lot of countries. Even to be a cleaner here nowadays you need to do a college course and get a certificate before many larger employers will take you on (I mean an institutional cleaner, not a 'maid'-type cleaner in a private home).
I was at a theatre performance last week, when the performer had this for a throwaway line:
"My father left school with no qualifications. Sounds trite, but just try it today!"
Are you serious, qualified cleaners! :)
Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.
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Somehow I think we are expecting too much from photography, stock, especially micro. Rich photographers are more associated with what we call the Masters, the kind of photogrpahers whos pictures end up in museums, big auctions, etc and these photographers are more or less associated with high end Fashion, made their names in that genre.
I never made myself any illusions in stock, I still maintain, the best years and the best revenues were undoubtly between 1985 upto around 2000, some 15 years of incredible earnings by many photographers. Ofcourse! there was much less of us doing this business and it was work for all of us, even as a dayrate photogrpher I got twice as much back in them days.
Interesting to note: this was BEFORE, the explosion of the Internet, google, micro, etc, one would assume that with todays techniques of finding pictures, photographers, etc, it would be raining dollars from heaven? but thats a big, fat, no.
Getty, was a fantastic corporation back in 93, after the purchase of Stones and Image-Bank, with their entire network in those days they really made us earn smaller fortunes, their enormous duping dept, made 15, 4x5, inch dupes of all accepted pics and then spread them around the world through all their offices, just the duping precidiure ran into millions of dollars. Ofcourse Getty, Stones, Image-Bank, only workerd with bona-fide professional photographers, that was basically all there was in them days.
Getting rich from micro? doubt it, yes Yuri has got rich but as he openly confess here, sadly, no increase. His wealth is probably due to his business model as well as photography but as the great Tony-Stone, used to say, " any business model, no matter what, get its 10 years then its good-bye"
well, a bit of rubbish from down memory lane here, for what its worth.
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I just want to pick up the previous discussion about Alamy. My observation is that, not only DLs, the prices have gone down drastically. One of my images was sold for a little over $100, but the print run is unlimited for both prints and e-book, the size is for 2-page spread.
I had a $ 7.63 sale on Alamy, which equals to earning $4.58 (not a novel use one, a standard RF license) the same day I made $18 on Shutterstock for a single license dl. And occasionally people are getting even $120 on SS for a single dl. So I think the borderlines between, micro, mid and macro stock are getting more and more blurry, at least when it comes to RF.
And as for getting rich ... well I wouldn't call Yuri a guy that got wealthy on micro stock. He earned enough to open up a business and that allowed him to earn even more. No single person is in my humble opinion able to get beyond 'upper middle class' earnings in a western country. And hiring extra stuff to do keywording, helping with photoshoots etc. is making you a businessman. Not to mention hiring 100 people ;) It also depends where you live. For example in most eastern european countries $3-4k a month is a very good wage (I'd guess top 5% or so in most cases). In US or western Europe as a photographer or a graphics artists one would easily make more.
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I just want to pick up the previous discussion about Alamy. My observation is that, not only DLs, the prices have gone down drastically. One of my images was sold for a little over $100, but the print run is unlimited for both prints and e-book, the size is for 2-page spread.
I had a $ 7.63 sale on Alamy, which equals to earning $4.58 (not a novel use one, a standard RF license) the same day I made $18 on Shutterstock for a single license dl. And occasionally people are getting even $120 on SS for a single dl. So I think the borderlines between, micro, mid and macro stock are getting more and more blurry, at least when it comes to RF.
And as for getting rich ... well I wouldn't call Yuri a guy that got wealthy on micro stock. He earned enough to open up a business and that allowed him to earn even more. No single person is in my humble opinion able to get beyond 'upper middle class' earnings in a western country. And hiring extra stuff to do keywording, helping with photoshoots etc. is making you a businessman. Not to mention hiring 100 people ;) It also depends where you live. For example in most eastern european countries $3-4k a month is a very good wage (I'd guess top 5% or so in most cases). In US or western Europe as a photographer or a graphics artists one would easily make more.
Yes but one must never forget, call it business model or whatever, its products are still photography and the photography, has to be much better then just good, stand out among the competition or else it falls flat on its face.
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I understand what you, Elena and Lisa just said but if both of you arenīt "rich", who are the rich persons doing microstock? I am saying that coz both of you are in the top 100 contributors for sure
Jonathan Klein, Jon Oringer, Sean Locke... ;D
Hey, I had to sell two of my polo ponies this year. Leave me alone ... ;)
Seriously, I'm glad I've stayed in the house I bought when we moved to STL, instead of trying to buy something bigger a few years ago. Having something like that looming would be scary.
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Yes indeed. It's earning well plus living well within those means that makes a person feel rich (no matter what the official definition of 'rich' is). If higher earnings just generate higher outgoings, people are simply running on the spot without accumulating the enormous advantage of a financial buffer.
I do think that those of us outside the U.S. often forget the extra burden that healthcare costs place on Americans and their families. Because we never have to worry about that, we just don't think about it, and that one factor completely distorts our idea of how wealthy US citizens really are.
Lisa's message seems the obvious lead in to another Oscar Wilde quote:
"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilisation in between."
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Yeah I was actually talking about moving to the US with my wife last night, and that is the main spoiler for me. The thought that you are always an accident or disease away from bankruptcy is just too much of a problem for me.
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Agreed. For me that would just feel too precarious.
I think wealth is (as in the case of the financial buffer) about peace of mind. I don't see how I could ever feel that if everything I'd accumulated could be wiped out in an instant.
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Getting rich from micro? doubt it, yes Yuri has got rich but as he openly confess here, sadly, no increase.
Last time I answered this question was in 2009 and the company had a royalty income of about 3 million USD per year. Today about three years later, it is way higher and the next goal is to reach into the 8 figures.
$10 Million a Year in Sight for Yuri Arcurs
actually he only said that he had no increase in RM with about 6k files on 4 agencies
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Getting rich from micro? doubt it, yes Yuri has got rich but as he openly confess here, sadly, no increase.
Last time I answered this question was in 2009 and the company had a royalty income of about 3 million USD per year. Today about three years later, it is way higher and the next goal is to reach into the 8 figures.
$10 Million a Year in Sight for Yuri Arcurs
actually he only said that he had no increase in RM with about 6k files on 4 agencies
thats right!
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Don't forget, his costs have likely quadrupled with the '100 employees' plus expensive overhead costs.
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Don't forget, his costs have likely quadrupled with the '100 employees' plus expensive overhead costs.
indeed, they took for sure 30% to 50% of those 10 M in sight for 2012
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His costs? so what? its academic.
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His costs? so what? its academic.
ahahah good one ;D
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I do think that those of us outside the U.S. often forget the extra burden that healthcare costs place on Americans and their families. Because we never have to worry about that, we just don't think about it, and that one factor completely distorts our idea of how wealthy US citizens really are.
That, plus there must have been either a huge sink in earnings there or we zoomed up without really noticing.
I read an article in Times Ed several years ago (c10?) which showed that on average US teachers were being paid 1/3 more than we were, and their t&c were better (but not as good as the t&c in Germany!). Plus the cost of living was then so much lower. By the time I left, it was about even or maybe a bit lower in the US, and I'm not sure the cost of living differential was as great either. It used to be that goods in shops, eg food and clothes was $1 for Ģ1, when a dollar was worth about 66p, and petrol was even less.
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I do think that those of us outside the U.S. often forget the extra burden that healthcare costs place on Americans and their families. Because we never have to worry about that, we just don't think about it, and that one factor completely distorts our idea of how wealthy US citizens really are.
That, plus there must have been either a huge sink in earnings there or we zoomed up without really noticing.
I read an article in Times Ed several years ago (c10?) which showed that on average US teachers were being paid 1/3 more than we were, and their t&c were better (but not as good as the t&c in Germany!). Plus the cost of living was then so much lower. By the time I left, it was about even or maybe a bit lower in the US, and I'm not sure the cost of living differential was as great either. It used to be that goods in shops, eg food and clothes was $1 for Ģ1, when a dollar was worth about 66p, and petrol was even less.
Well in England, Scotland and Ireland, we are very spoilt, National-health care, you know. Now if you take Sweden for example, one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world, experts in technology, IT, engineering, you name it. Here, old people have no value, they die, because the elder-care is totally non existant, 2 years, etc, for a hip replacement! and this is in one of the richest countries in the world with just a 9 million population, where big-brother is watching you around the clock. There is no excuse.
Sweden escaped two world wars but act as if they went through three world wars. They should be ashamed.
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sorry but nowadays you either sell on Getty (RF or RM) or you will just make peanuts with the other agencies.
micros : they're a good place where you can dump and sell images that don't fit or sell on Getty...
Huh. So I guess all of the people who make a living in microstock have somehow managed to convince the bill and tax collectors to accept peanuts as payment.
;)
Yeah, but it's hard to get the peanuts in the envelopes. ;D
I find it's easiest if you mash them into peanut butter and then coat the inside of the envelope ;D
sounds like some of the ploys used in the good ol' days when conversing with your draft board [since they were required to keep any correspondence you sent them]
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.....
I never made myself any illusions in stock, I still maintain, the best years and the best revenues were undoubtly between 1985 upto around 2000, some 15 years of incredible earnings by many photographers. Ofcourse! there was much less of us doing this business and it was work for all of us, even as a dayrate photogrpher I got twice as much back in them days.
Interesting to note: this was BEFORE, the explosion of the Internet, google, micro, etc, one would assume that with todays techniques of finding pictures, photographers, etc, it would be raining dollars from heaven? but thats a big, fat, no.
......
well, a bit of rubbish from down memory lane here, for what its worth.
agreed - film-based stock prices meant a reasonable income on just a few sales. oi got into digital stock in the early 90s when many others were saying it was the road to ruin for photographers. buggywhip craftsmen probably said the same about henry ford. but at that time a cd with 100 images sold for $200-300 and the photographer got 50% royalties
i got into microstock later [ca 2006] but have been able to keep a steadily increasing income of about +20% each year. this year has been the same
SS has been odd - while rejections have increased about 1/3 of my current sales are of editorial images that would no longer be accepted under their current definition of editorial --eg http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=49499494 (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=49499494)
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With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
Reef, do you actually HAVE children, or is this a hypthetical for you? Clearly you have no idea how much hard work, dedication, sacrifice and maturity it takes to qualify and gain admission (much less scholarships) to top colleges these days. That is something that is earned, not handed to any young adult.
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Are you serious, qualified cleaners! :)
Yes, my sister manages a university Hall of Residence and her cleaners must have at least a basic level module (40 hours of study).
SVQ Level 1 Cleaning and Support Services
To provide a work based qulification for those employed as a cleaner in, for example, an office, factory or hospital. This programme is a work based qualification and you must be employed and working in this capacity.
Course Content:
The course involves a combination of theoretical and practical knowledge and skills.
Theory includes:
Health and Safety
Hygiene and Safe Work Practices
Effective Working Relationships
Fulfilling Your Work Role
Practical Skills Include:
Cleaning of Floors and Surfaces
Furniture
Sanitary Fixtures and Fittings
than you can move on to:
SVQ Level 2 Cleaning and Support Services (Building Interiors)
Aim of Course:
To provide a work based qualification for those employed as a cleaner in, for example, an office, factory or hospital. This programme is a work based qualification and you must be employed and working in this capacity.
Course Content:
The course involves a combination of theoretical and practical knowledge and skills.
Theory Includes:
Health and Safety
Hygiene and Safe Working Practices
Effective Working Relationships
Practical Skills Include:
Cleaning of Floors and Drainage Systems
Deep Clean Equipment used in Preparation, Processing and Storage of Food
Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.
Ever thought about applying for a job as a doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect, or many, many other jobs? "Oh, I don't even have any Standard Grades (or your country's equivalent), but don't worry, I'm hardworking and passionate." See where that would get you.
Jobs are so hard fought these days that not having qualifications is just an easy way of whittling down the pile of applications.
We can't all be entrepreneurs, and even the maverick formerly known as Siralan has, now that he's off the street barrow, surrounded himself with a lot of highly qualified top level employees.
You need it all nowadays as a young person: hard work, passion and, almost always, the highest qualifications. By ignoring the importance of qualifications, you are limiting your childrens' choices. It doesn't matter how hard working and passionate you are, if your application forms get skimmed and tossed.
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With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
Reef, do you actually HAVE children, or is this a hypthetical for you? Clearly you have no idea how much hard work, dedication, sacrifice and maturity it takes to qualify and gain admission (much less scholarships) to top colleges these days. That is something that is earned, not handed to any young adult.
Yes, I have children and we give them a 'normal upbringing' within our means :) It just seems to me these days children have enormous pressures placed on them. The volume of home work they get is ridiculous, parents and social expectations add even more pressure. No wonder suicide rates are increasing each year. I just want my children to be happy and enjoy life and to be children for as long they can.
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Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.
Ever thought about applying for a job as a doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect, or many, many other jobs? "Oh, I don't even have any Standard Grades (or your country's equivalent), but don't worry, I'm hardworking and passionate." See where that would get you.
Jobs are so hard fought these days that not having qualifications is just an easy way of whittling down the pile of applications.
We can't all be entrepreneurs, and even the maverick formerly known as Siralan has, now that he's off the street barrow, surrounded himself with a lot of highly qualified top level employees.
You need it all nowadays as a young person: hard work, passion and, almost always, the highest qualifications. By ignoring the importance of qualifications, you are limiting your childrens' choices. It doesn't matter how hard working and passionate you are, if your application forms get skimmed and tossed.
But that doesn't make it right. I often laugh at the job hiring process these days. A bimbo office worker filtering job applications based on qualifications. How ridiculous. When I hire someone I look at what they can do not what a piece of paper says.
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Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.
Ever thought about applying for a job as a doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect, or many, many other jobs? "Oh, I don't even have any Standard Grades (or your country's equivalent), but don't worry, I'm hardworking and passionate." See where that would get you.
Jobs are so hard fought these days that not having qualifications is just an easy way of whittling down the pile of applications.
We can't all be entrepreneurs, and even the maverick formerly known as Siralan has, now that he's off the street barrow, surrounded himself with a lot of highly qualified top level employees.
You need it all nowadays as a young person: hard work, passion and, almost always, the highest qualifications. By ignoring the importance of qualifications, you are limiting your childrens' choices. It doesn't matter how hard working and passionate you are, if your application forms get skimmed and tossed.
But that doesn't make it right. I often laugh at the job hiring process these days. A bimbo office worker filtering job applications based on qualifications. How ridiculous. When I hire someone I look at what they can do not what a piece of paper says.
If you got 200+ applications would you interview them all?
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Hard work and passion still mean more to me, but that's me.
Ever thought about applying for a job as a doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect, or many, many other jobs? "Oh, I don't even have any Standard Grades (or your country's equivalent), but don't worry, I'm hardworking and passionate." See where that would get you.
Jobs are so hard fought these days that not having qualifications is just an easy way of whittling down the pile of applications.
We can't all be entrepreneurs, and even the maverick formerly known as Siralan has, now that he's off the street barrow, surrounded himself with a lot of highly qualified top level employees.
You need it all nowadays as a young person: hard work, passion and, almost always, the highest qualifications. By ignoring the importance of qualifications, you are limiting your childrens' choices. It doesn't matter how hard working and passionate you are, if your application forms get skimmed and tossed.
But that doesn't make it right. I often laugh at the job hiring process these days. A bimbo office worker filtering job applications based on qualifications. How ridiculous. When I hire someone I look at what they can do not what a piece of paper says.
If you got 200+ applications would you interview them all?
no
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I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
Really fantastic post! Take a heart.
Totally agree about education. My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college. It will be worth it. We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood.
A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today! We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years.
To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums. I've had three surgeries in the last three years. Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive.
With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
Yes these are old adages, used to think the same actually. Today however Im inclined to agree with Sue and Lisa, unless born rich, education is the one and ONLY thing that counts and very often especially in richer countries, thats not even enough to get a job. I know its boring but papers and qualifications, grades, etc, is the only thing that matters nowdays. This ofcourse is the stupidity of modern societies, they will value a piece of paper more then experience. Thats the way its become and experience is ofcourse nothing but the name we give our mistakes. So whats right.
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I do think that those of us outside the U.S. often forget the extra burden that healthcare costs place on Americans and their families. Because we never have to worry about that, we just don't think about it, and that one factor completely distorts our idea of how wealthy US citizens really are.
That, plus there must have been either a huge sink in earnings there or we zoomed up without really noticing.
I read an article in Times Ed several years ago (c10?) which showed that on average US teachers were being paid 1/3 more than we were, and their t&c were better (but not as good as the t&c in Germany!). Plus the cost of living was then so much lower. By the time I left, it was about even or maybe a bit lower in the US, and I'm not sure the cost of living differential was as great either. It used to be that goods in shops, eg food and clothes was $1 for Ģ1, when a dollar was worth about 66p, and petrol was even less.
Well in England, Scotland and Ireland, we are very spoilt, National-health care, you know. Now if you take Sweden for example, one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world, experts in technology, IT, engineering, you name it. Here, old people have no value, they die, because the elder-care is totally non existant, 2 years, etc, for a hip replacement! and this is in one of the richest countries in the world with just a 9 million population, where big-brother is watching you around the clock. There is no excuse.
Sweden escaped two world wars but act as if they went through three world wars. They should be ashamed.
Slightly exaggerated don't you think? Or perhaps we just have a more positive disposition here on the west coast :)
Ireland I hear from relatives is mind-bogglingly expensive for healthcare, medicines, childcare and house values have plummeted in places to 1/3 of previous values.
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I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
Really fantastic post! Take a heart.
Totally agree about education. My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college. It will be worth it. We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood.
A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today! We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years.
To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums. I've had three surgeries in the last three years. Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive.
With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
Yes these are old adages, used to think the same actually. Today however Im inclined to agree with Sue and Lisa, unless born rich, education is the one and ONLY thing that counts and very often especially in richer countries, thats not even enough to get a job. I know its boring but papers and qualifications, grades, etc, is the only thing that matters nowdays. This ofcourse is the stupidity of modern societies, they will value a piece of paper more then experience. Thats the way its become and experience is ofcourse nothing but the name we give our mistakes. So whats right.
Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.
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I wonder where are you from? I came to Canada from Russia in 1993 with nothing but a backpack with a spare pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts. The jeans was my most expensive possession back then. Seriously. So I am actually from that "vast majority of the world" you're talking about. The most valuable "possession" was my education though, which allowed me to succeed in life. Even if I had to live in slums I'd still spend money on my kids education, that's the most important thing parents can give. I know what it's like to be dirt poor and I don't mind it, but I also know that having some money for decent fairly comfortable living is not being "rich" - it's being normal. With money I make on microstock I don't have excesses - I drive a 10 year old car and live in a condo. You can not call that "rich" by any standards.
Really fantastic post! Take a heart.
Totally agree about education. My husband and I are having to cut back a lot to put our daughter through a top college. It will be worth it. We have never bought a new car in our lives, and live in a 1200 sq. foot house in a nice, but working class neighborhood.
A couple of years back we thought microstock would finance a move to a more upscale neighborhood, but if we had done that, imagine the mess we would find ourselves in today! We will continue with our relatively modest lifestyle regardless of where microstock is in the next few years.
To be honest, living in the good ole US of A any extra money we have gotten has gone to medical bills and high insurance premiums. I've had three surgeries in the last three years. Living in the only Industrialized Western nation that doesn't provide medical care to its population gets REALLY expensive.
With regards to your children, I think I'm of the other opinion. That's not to say I do not help my children. But I would not sacrifice my life style to ensure they got the best education available. On the contrary, I would prefer they earned their way through life which will teach them respect for money, property and such. That's more important than how well educated you are or how rich you are.
Yes these are old adages, used to think the same actually. Today however Im inclined to agree with Sue and Lisa, unless born rich, education is the one and ONLY thing that counts and very often especially in richer countries, thats not even enough to get a job. I know its boring but papers and qualifications, grades, etc, is the only thing that matters nowdays. This ofcourse is the stupidity of modern societies, they will value a piece of paper more then experience. Thats the way its become and experience is ofcourse nothing but the name we give our mistakes. So whats right.
Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.
Agreing on hard work and connections!
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Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.
I have a 7 year old son and I'm pretty sure by the time he grows up whatever we now think of as making a carrier, getting education etc. will completely change.
The good news is that access for education will be much better. Just look at all the new ideas poping up like Udacity. That is mainly good for people from developing nations and a bit less so for a small group of rich people living in western societies as the monopoly for access to good education ends.
The bad news is that the marketplace will change drastically. Lots of jobs in the next 20 years will be automated. Automated warehouses, cashiers etc. these are the things happening now and it's not only simple jobs, not only your "wall-mart greeters". After IBM build their supercomputer Watson (the one that won the Jeopardy game) they tested it in various other ways, for example with analyzing medical data, or finding legal cases relevant to a given subject. It outperformed most humans and that was 2010. That means that for many tasks we will have a machine doing 80-90% of the job and a few specialists taking on the more unusual cases and occasionally checking what the machines are doing ;). On one hand it'll mean for example better health care (as more basic services will get cheaper), but less work for mediocre specialists. The times where having a diploma meant you'll get a good paying job are over. No. You'll have to be exceptional to get a good job.
Obviously just like no one ever heard of a php-developer, or social media marketing specialist 20 years ago, just as well we can expect lots of new markets and jobs arise, but I don't think that all 7 billion people will be blogging about fashion tips, or selling their 3D printed hummus cupcakes via eBay. The age of the 'exceptionalists' is upon us and by definition everyone can't be exceptional.
We better teach our kids to be problem solvers, think creatively, learn to adapt to new challenges. Sending them to a university with a $100k a year tuition won't do the trick.
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Sure education is important, although I feel that 4 years of university, studies abroad counted for nothing compared to real life work experience. In my opinion attitude (i.e. positive, willingness to work hard etc.) and connections are the 2 most important factors for success.
I have a 7 year old son and I'm pretty sure by the time he grows up whatever we now think of as making a carrier, getting education etc. will completely change.
The good news is that access for education will be much better. Just look at all the new ideas poping up like Udacity. That is mainly good for people from developing nations and a bit less so for a small group of rich people living in western societies as the monopoly for access to good education ends.
The bad news is that the marketplace will change drastically. Lots of jobs in the next 20 years will be automated. Automated warehouses, cashiers etc. these are the things happening now and it's not only simple jobs, not only your "wall-mart greeters". After IBM build their supercomputer Watson (the one that won the Jeopardy game) they tested it in various other ways, for example with analyzing medical data, or finding legal cases relevant to a given subject. It outperformed most humans and that was 2010. That means that for many tasks we will have a machine doing 80-90% of the job and a few specialists taking on the more unusual cases and occasionally checking what the machines are doing ;). On one hand it'll mean for example better health care (as more basic services will get cheaper), but less work for mediocre specialists. The times where having a diploma meant you'll get a good paying job are over. No. You'll have to be exceptional to get a good job.
Obviously just like no one ever heard of a php-developer, or social media marketing specialist 20 years ago, just as well we can expect lots of new markets and jobs arise, but I don't think that all 7 billion people will be blogging about fashion tips, or selling their 3D printed hummus cupcakes via eBay. The age of the 'exceptionalists' is upon us and by definition everyone can't be exceptional.
We better teach our kids to be problem solvers, think creatively, learn to adapt to new challenges. Sending them to a university with a $100k a year tuition won't do the trick.
Yes I dont believe in horribly expensive educations either. Reminds me of a story in the London financial city, during the yuppie era, large commercial bankers were after youg dealers, they didnt go to Harrow or Eaton, they went down the worst areas in London and collected youg 22-23 year olds, real street-kids, small villains, dressed them up, this and that, gave them a free course in broking, dealing.
Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s
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Yes I dont believe in horribly expensive educations either. Reminds me of a story in the London financial city, during the yuppie era, large commercial bankers were after youg dealers, they didnt go to Harrow or Eaton, they went down the worst areas in London and collected youg 22-23 year olds, real street-kids, small villains, dressed them up, this and that, gave them a free course in broking, dealing.
Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s
Reminds me of 'Trading places' when Eddie Murphy replaces Dan Aykroyd for a dollar bet ;D
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Yes I dont believe in horribly expensive educations either. Reminds me of a story in the London financial city, during the yuppie era, large commercial bankers were after youg dealers, they didnt go to Harrow or Eaton, they went down the worst areas in London and collected youg 22-23 year olds, real street-kids, small villains, dressed them up, this and that, gave them a free course in broking, dealing.
Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s
Reminds me of 'Trading places' when Eddie Murphy replaces Dan Aykroyd for a dollar bet ;D
Brillant film and not far from the truth :)
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Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s
20 years ago. Times have moved on.
20 years ago, a young, talented photographer hawked his/her physical portfolio around the agencies or galleries and got work that way, sometimes on the spot. Nowadays, the agency or gallery would have to do a big web search to make sure they hadn't downloaded stock photographs.
Yes, in some areas of life, especially entrepreneurship, education isn't the most important thing - though as I said above, even the most entrepreneurial spirits will have to use the services of well-educated lawyers, accountants, etc etc. We're not all entrepreneurs, and we should be encouraging young people in whatever area they want to go into, not straightjacketing them into one particular area.
Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I taught for over 30 years. I also don't buy fully into the "follow your dreams" fairy tale: I saw too many pupils suckered into that fallacy. I could give loads of examples, but I'll stick to one. We had a student teacher in our school, and a few years later, there was a whole article in a magazine about her, as she'd opened an independent 'sex shop' of the Ann Summers type. How she had left teaching and how she loved her new job, how well it was doing blah de blah. Taik o' the steamie. Sure enough, about five years later, she was back with us doing supply teaching - she had never done business management and really had no idea about a lot of the 'unobvious' expenses, and hadn't factored them in ... and now owed a lot of money.
That's just one example, but I see far too many businesses start and fail around here (photographers more than any, as it happens) to believe the dream/hype. Often it's not a lack of hard work and passion, just a lack of basic marketing knowledge, i.e. knowing where there is a market for their product, or what price the local market will pay (seldom enough to sustain a business, it seems).
That said, there are no 'steady' professions these days. When I left school, there were certain guaranteed 'jobs for life': teaching, banks, law, medicine, librarianship were generally touted to girls in particular as being 'safe' jobs. Not so nowadays. So much so that while young people used to be discouraged from e.g. acting, it's right in there with anything else nowadays. Sometimes I feel that the only safe job, (other than of course undertaker and tax officer), is hairdresser. Honestly - I've never seen a halfway-decent hairdresser who didn't have more work than they could cope with. Come recession, war, plague, famine - many people will always want a hairdresser.
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Many years later, the BBC or something did a documentary and well, the majority of these kids, no education what so ever exept guts and balls, they had really made it, a few were multi millionaries, married with kids and everything, they dared to do and deal, take chances, way above an Etonian, etc. This is a true story, beginning of the 90s
20 years ago. Times have moved on.
20 years ago, a young, talented photographer hawked his/her physical portfolio around the agencies or galleries and got work that way, sometimes on the spot. Nowadays, the agency or gallery would have to do a big web search to make sure they hadn't downloaded stock photographs.
Yes, in some areas of life, especially entrepreneurship, education isn't the most important thing - though as I said above, even the most entrepreneurial spirits will have to use the services of well-educated lawyers, accountants, etc etc. We're not all entrepreneurs, and we should be encouraging young people in whatever area they want to go into, not straightjacketing them into one particular area.
Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I taught for over 30 years. I also don't buy fully into the "follow your dreams" fairy tale: I saw too many pupils suckered into that fallacy. I could give loads of examples, but I'll stick to one. We had a student teacher in our school, and a few years later, there was a whole article in a magazine about her, as she'd opened an independent 'sex shop' of the Ann Summers type. How she had left teaching and how she loved her new job, how well it was doing blah de blah. Taik o' the steamie. Sure enough, about five years later, she was back with us doing supply teaching - she had never done business management and really had no idea about a lot of the 'unobvious' expenses, and hadn't factored them in ... and now owed a lot of money.
That's just one example, but I see far too many businesses start and fail around here (photographers more than any, as it happens) to believe the dream/hype. Often it's not a lack of hard work and passion, just a lack of basic marketing knowledge, i.e. knowing where there is a market for their product, or what price the local market will pay (seldom enough to sustain a business, it seems).
That said, there are no 'steady' professions these days. When I left school, there were certain guaranteed 'jobs for life': teaching, banks, law, medicine, librarianship were generally touted to girls in particular as being 'safe' jobs. Not so nowadays. So much so that while young people used to be discouraged from e.g. acting, it's right in there with anything else nowadays. Sometimes I feel that the only safe job, (other than of course undertaker and tax officer), is hairdresser. Honestly - I've never seen a halfway-decent hairdresser who didn't have more work than they could cope with. Come recession, war, plague, famine - many people will always want a hairdresser.
AND, thats exactly what I mean! 20 year ago, they had the incentive and the imagination to do just that. Today? what? even if they were useless in business-collage or what nots, they still would prefer papers and exams. Thats the whole point!
ya boozer! ;)
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LOL! I am getting the biggest kick out of reading the posts here from people with young children who seem to think that being hard working, creative thinkers, and exceptional are in some way mutually exclusive to getting a good education. ::)
Guess what - you raise your kids to be all of those things AND have a quality higher education if you want them to succeed.
What planet do you people live on that you think kids that get in to top colleges are some sort of lazy uncreative slouches?? You guys are in for a really rude awakening when your kids grow up. Better be saving for college NOW.
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Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
That's interesting, especially because I mainly shoot lifestyle too. I don't know if the discussion about lifestyle being over-saturated was held in this thread or not, but I remember reading it in this forums a couple of days ago. I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc? Or are some of you even thinking about the switch to macro, commissioned work or quitting altogether? My sales this week have been terrible and I'm afraid of hitting a wall or even seeing my, already average earnings, drop.
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What planet do you people live on that you think kids that get in to top colleges are some sort of lazy uncreative slouches?? You guys are in for a really rude awakening when your kids grow up. Better be saving for college NOW.
I don't know about top colleges, but I don't remember working very hard to get into college and get a scholarship. I guess I did show up for school and put in the work, but most of the time it was the bare minimum. That seemed to be the norm for many of my friends too. I was definitely a slacker compared to now, but I'd say my work ethic is a lot stronger now than it has ever been.
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Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
.I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc?
Food
iStock: 1,038,091
SS: 2,144,452
Alamy: 1,784,763
Not much scope there unless you can find some niche foods that nevertheless have a market and somehow keep others off your niche. Best to find out what the Next Big Thing in food is and photograph that.
Hey, I've seen a niche. If you buy in a generic food item, and photograph it, is that a copyright breach? (E.g. but this isn't it, a scone)
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Having lost 1/3 of my income this year despite putting in the same amount of work, No I am not feeling the least bit rich. On top of that, my shoots this year have failed to cover expenses.
.I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc?
Food
iStock: 1,038,091
SS: 2,144,452
Alamy: 1,784,763
Not much scope there unless you can find some niche foods that nevertheless have a market and somehow keep others off your niche. Best to find out what the Next Big Thing in food is and photograph that.
Hey, I've seen a niche. If you buy in a generic food item, and photograph it, is that a copyright breach? (E.g. but this isn't it, a scone)
I wouldn't switch to food photography myself, since I know how hard it is to produce great food shots, it's science really. So much work, since I don't know the basics, well I do know the very basics, but nothing beyond that. Simple isolations etc won't cut, lighting has to be perfect, highlighting just the right things, emphasizing some, you have to arrange everything carefully. If I'd switch, I'd try to find a niche in sports. But how many photos can you do on a single niched sport anyway...If I'd change lifestyle for some other type of photography, people would have to be involved, I just love shooting people, makes it interesting to me, the shoot itself is alive. More difficult, for sure, not to mention the organization, locations, MRs, props, make up, hair, this and that...But that's what I love to shoot. I'd probably rather stop shooting altogether than not shoot people anymore. And I have tried almost every other type of photography. Well travel photography seems interesting, but I don't travel all that much, so that's out of the question.
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I wouldn't switch to food photography myself, since I know how hard it is to produce great food shots, it's science really. So much work, since I don't know the basics, well I do know the very basics, but nothing beyond that. Simple isolations etc won't cut, lighting has to be perfect, highlighting just the right things, emphasizing some, you have to arrange everything carefully. If I'd switch, I'd try to find a niche in sports. But how many photos can you do on a single niched sport anyway...If I'd change lifestyle for some other type of photography, people would have to be involved, I just love shooting people, makes it interesting to me, the shoot itself is alive. More difficult, for sure, not to mention the organization, locations, MRs, props, make up, hair, this and that...But that's what I love to shoot. I'd probably rather stop shooting altogether than not shoot people anymore. And I have tried almost every other type of photography. Well travel photography seems interesting, but I don't travel all that much, so that's out of the question.
These days in MS its probably more important to be a master of photomanipulation than photography. And a creative mind doesn't hurt either!
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LOL! I am getting the biggest kick out of reading the posts here from people with young children who seem to think that being hard working, creative thinkers, and exceptional are in some way mutually exclusive to getting a good education. ::)
Guess what - you raise your kids to be all of those things AND have a quality higher education if you want them to succeed.
What planet do you people live on that you think kids that get in to top colleges are some sort of lazy uncreative slouches?? You guys are in for a really rude awakening when your kids grow up. Better be saving for college NOW.
Your definition of success is obviously different to mine. But that's what makes the world go round :)
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.I wonder what's the plan of those top lifestyle togs, sjlocke as well etc, many are saying they're down on year to year basis. Are they/you going to switch for something else, for example food photography etc?
Food
iStock: 1,038,091
SS: 2,144,452
Alamy: 1,784,763
Not much scope there unless you can find some niche foods that nevertheless have a market and somehow keep others off your niche. Best to find out what the Next Big Thing in food is and photograph that.
Hey, I've seen a niche. If you buy in a generic food item, and photograph it, is that a copyright breach? (E.g. but this isn't it, a scone)
No money in food stock nowadays either. It's all been done to death. Just a mere 19K results for 'hamburger' at SS for example. There never was that much money to be made from food but now it is ever more difficult just to pay for the shoot.
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... I just love shooting people, makes it interesting to me, the shoot itself is alive. More difficult, for sure, not to mention the organization, locations, MRs, props, make up, hair, this and that...But that's what I love to shoot. I'd probably rather stop shooting altogether than not shoot people anymore. And I have tried almost every other type of photography. Well travel photography seems interesting, but I don't travel all that much, so that's out of the question.
Totally agree. People are what I enjoy shooting. It's a PITA to put the shoots together, but nothing else has ever interested me as much. I have dabbled in food all along, and will probably continue to do the occasional food shoot when the spirit moves me, but as Gostwyck points out, that market is just as saturated as lifestyle. I am pretty much stuck shooting people as that is what I love.
If I stop making money in micro, I will probably simplify and stick to portraits. No need to photograph people playing tennis, or exercising, or getting a medical exam, once stock stops paying the bills. With the extent of my portfolio and the additional skills I have picked up in micro, I think I could have a nice little portrait business. And if not, I will do it for my friends just for fun.
I am planning to do some RM stuff also. But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that. He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine.
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I am planning to do some RM stuff also. But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that. He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine.
no one knows your real life situation beside yourself but that sounds like a joke, looks like you are making fun of us, sorry but thats my feeling (even if you are having drop month after month for over a year or two, its from the other world seeing you arenīt doing still well)
how can you as the 31th best contributor at iStock regarding number of sales needing support from husband?
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I am planning to do some RM stuff also. But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that. He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine.
no one knows your real life situation beside yourself but that sounds like a joke, looks like you are making fun of us, sorry but thats my feeling (even if you are having drop month after month for over a year or two, its from the other world seeing you arenīt doing still well)
how can you as the 31th best contributor at iStock regarding number of sales needing support from husband?
1. iStock is micro
2. Lisa's an independent, small %age. She took the same %age cut as other indies when they did the dirty on us.
3. She's been building her port and sales on iStock (and elsewhere) for a long time. So her huge sales slump is hitting her badly.
4. She is seeing the writing on the wall, that the micro and mid-stock projections aren't good for more than a couple of years, IHO.
But I'm sure Lisa can answer for herself. ;)
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LOL! I am getting the biggest kick out of reading the posts here from people with young children who seem to think that being hard working, creative thinkers, and exceptional are in some way mutually exclusive to getting a good education. ::)
Guess what - you raise your kids to be all of those things AND have a quality higher education if you want them to succeed.
What planet do you people live on that you think kids that get in to top colleges are some sort of lazy uncreative slouches?? You guys are in for a really rude awakening when your kids grow up. Better be saving for college NOW.
No need to save anything...all education (Sweden) is free from primary to university - they even get paid to go!
Also, hopefully there was no misunderstanding with my previous post. Of course education is vital, to get "credentials", as well as learning critical thinking, analytical skills etc. However, work experience and connections might have more of a "direct" and faster impact on one's development.
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
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I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Absolutely!!! .....though if they eliminated religion I wouldn't object ::)
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree! BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.
I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to? How to translate dreams into reality? what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.
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I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Absolutely!!! .....though if they eliminated religion I wouldn't object ::)
Oh really? yet the biggest history is about religions, religious wars, goes back 2000 years, has throughout history claimed more lives then anything. Religion is history. Some contradictions here.
What I mean is very simple: today it doesnt provide jobs.
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I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Absolutely!!! .....though if they eliminated religion I wouldn't object ::)
Oh really? yet the biggest history is about religions, religious wars, goes back 2000 years, has throughout history claimed more lives then anything. Religion is history. Some contradictions here.
Part of history yes, but not as religious education.
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree! BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.
I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to? How to translate dreams into reality? what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.
"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.
Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.
Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.
Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree! BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.
I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to? How to translate dreams into reality? what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.
"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.
Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.
Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.
Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.
Myself is a qualified Veterinary surgeon, took me 7 years. I didnt give it up, contrary I used it for my photography ever since the 80s, it has served me well and nowdays I help friends out for free if they have any sick pets. My wife breeds Borzois, russian sighthounds, have 12 of these giant dogs, racing them, plus horses, so Im full up with work. Still, photography has always been my passion and my job.
You must understand, I dont think they are useless it that sense, I love history for example but for getting jobs, no. Even the teachers themselves agree there are far too many obscure classes and subjects at universities nowdays, which in the sense of getting permanent jobs, are meaningless.
Anyway, we are rambling on here? perhaps we should return to the OP? :)
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree! BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.
I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to? How to translate dreams into reality? what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.
"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.
Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.
Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.
Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.
Myself is a qualified Veterinary surgeon, took me 7 years. I didnt give it up, contrary I used it for my photography ever since the 80s, it has served me well and nowdays I help friends out for free if they have any sick pets. My wife breeds Borzois, russian sighthounds, have 12 of these giant dogs, racing them, plus horses, so Im full up with work. Still, photography has always been my passion and my job.
You must understand, I dont think they are useless it that sense, I love history for example but for getting jobs, no. Even the teachers themselves agree there are far too many obscure classes and subjects at universities nowdays, which in the sense of getting permanent jobs, are meaningless.
Anyway, we are rambling on here? perhaps we should return to the OP? :)
Nothing wrong being a rambler ;)
Think I know what you mean now though... not necessarily "useless" but not the best path if one wanted to secure a well paid, secure job or a good return on your investment (education).
Don't understand how you can cope with 12 dogs. Have one, and that is plenty (half Rottweiler, half Labrador) and I refer to him as my hairy son.
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Yes sure, I know exactly what you mean and agree! BUT! how many will end up historians, authors, writers, etc? the well known ones. Out of an acting class of 90, wanna bee actors, how many do you really hit the white screen or the theatre stage? 99.99, will join the dole-que.
Few weeks back, there was a documentary on Swedish TV, from the famous creative-college, Beckmans in Stockholm. After 3 years and then exams, out of 300 students, 6, got permanent jobs.
I mean when you look at some of the subjects you can study at todays universities, its down and out scary, first thought that springs to mind is: what . is that? "Global changes? whats does that lead to? How to translate dreams into reality? what does that lead to.
The list is endless of totally useless courses and exams, meaningless rubbish really. Majority end up turning burgers or working as parking-lot attendants.
"Useless" is subjective in this discussion. Useless in perhaps securing a well paid job. Not everyone is after education that leads to high paying jobs. Nurses, teachers etc. all study for a long time and work hard, but are not paid very well.
Regarding actors, writers, painters etc., yes many fall to the side, but the general public gets to see and enjoy the cream of the crop on the silver screen. Similar to sports really, not everyone will become Zlatan. Not everyone can play it safe and prioritize security, good pay etc. They might experience "a calling". We need aspiring authors, painters, and other cultural workers - that is why a lot of it is "sponsored" by the government through taxes and rightly so. Art pushes boundaries, influences and affects world affairs, religion, politics etc.
Myself is well educated (US college and 4 years of Uni), worked in investment banking for 5 years and decided to give it all up for A LOT LESS pay, A LOT LESS security to do photography and focus more on my family.
Nah, let them do their "useless" courses, enable them to find themselves and at least some of them will end up influencing others whether it is through writing, painting, art or acting.
Myself is a qualified Veterinary surgeon, took me 7 years. I didnt give it up, contrary I used it for my photography ever since the 80s, it has served me well and nowdays I help friends out for free if they have any sick pets. My wife breeds Borzois, russian sighthounds, have 12 of these giant dogs, racing them, plus horses, so Im full up with work. Still, photography has always been my passion and my job.
You must understand, I dont think they are useless it that sense, I love history for example but for getting jobs, no. Even the teachers themselves agree there are far too many obscure classes and subjects at universities nowdays, which in the sense of getting permanent jobs, are meaningless.
Anyway, we are rambling on here? perhaps we should return to the OP? :)
Nothing wrong being a rambler ;)
Think I know what you mean now though... not necessarily "useless" but not the best path if one wanted to secure a well paid, secure job or a good return on your investment (education).
Don't understand how you can cope with 12 dogs. Have one, and that is plenty (half Rottweiler, half Labrador) and I refer to him as my hairy son.
I tell you, I wouldnt survive without them, to see them race, the biomechnics, the intensity, the sheer strength! fantastic! truly magnificent animals. Every time we sell a puppie, I feel sick. Im fortunate, I have plenty of land, all fenced in, so they can play and have fun all day.
Animals, are what keeps us going, really, its our escape.
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The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
More's the pity!
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The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
More's the pity!
Yes! sadly!
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The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
More's the pity!
I'll say. That's the only life that ever appealed to me...
Let's start a campaign... 'Bring Back Bohemia!'
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I am planning to do some RM stuff also. But bottom line is I have told my husband we may be back to him supporting us in a couple of years and he's okay with that. He doesn't make a fortune as a teacher, but at least his job is secure and steady, unlike mine.
no one knows your real life situation beside yourself but that sounds like a joke, looks like you are making fun of us, sorry but thats my feeling (even if you are having drop month after month for over a year or two, its from the other world seeing you arenīt doing still well)
how can you as the 31th best contributor at iStock regarding number of sales needing support from husband?
I can understand. When your earnings are on a downward slope and you project forward a few years, it isn't encouraging. It doesn't really matter how much people have sold in the past or if they're still doing relatively well. The reason I was doing microstock was because I thought my earnings could at least stay fairly stable, as long as I was producing some new images each year. It's obvious now that was just a wild fantasy. If a miracle happened and the sites guaranteed commission levels for the next 20 years, it might be worth sticking with microstock. The reality is, we don't know how low commissions are going but there's a strong likelihood that they'll be much lower in 5 years time. And there's still no sign of competition weakening. It get harder and harder to compete with the millions of images being uploaded each year, especially if your passion is in one of the most saturated genres. How can anyone feel comfortable bringing in the main household income in that situation?
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Are you guys really discussing if it pays to have an education or not?
Really?
Dont you know?
If not, then just imagine that you coldnt read.
Being able to read comes from education, it can be stepped up to more.
Bla. bla, you will say.
But there are many people who cant read. And speaking of it, how is it with the degree of alitteracy in the USA?
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Bla. bla, you will say.
But there are many people who cant read. And speaking of it, how is it with the degree of alitteracy in the USA?
I assume you mean literacy - according to Wikipedia it is 99% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate)). Functional literacy would be much lower. However, I don't see how the literacy rate in the US is relevant to anything in this discussion.
I work at a local university - a large, land-grant institution of more than 35,000 students. I am the faculty advisor for one of the largest student clubs so talk to a lot of students from many majors and keep track of them after graduation. Those with "worthless" majors on average certainly have a much tougher time getting a job after graduation compared to those in the more marketable majors such as computer science, engineering or business. However, they usually end up with a job they love and often seem much happier than those who did engineering or something similar because their parents told them it would be marketable. Many companies pay a lot to hire people with "worthless" majors because they know how to write, speak and/or make public presentations. If you work hard, can think and write well you can go far regardless of major. Experience of course also is very important. The correlation between education and income is very high and undisputed (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm)). I agree with JPDSK. Investing in your kids' education is one of the best things you can do - I'm surprised that would be disputed here.
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The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
More's the pity!
I'll say. That's the only life that ever appealed to me...
Let's start a campaign... 'Bring Back Bohemia!'
Funny isnt it. Sold a Montmartre pic, early evening light as RM, last week for 1800 bucks! must be a bloody good omen? took it years back.
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The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
More's the pity!
I'll say. That's the only life that ever appealed to me...
Let's start a campaign... 'Bring Back Bohemia!'
You write the song, I'll sing it; and we can clean up selling earplugs. ;D
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if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
5k $ doesn't make you rich at all we are talking about revenue here, 5k should the absolute minimum you are making if you wanna do stock fulltime.
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if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
5k $ doesn't make you rich at all we are talking about revenue here, 5k should the absolute minimum you are making if you wanna do stock fulltime.
seriously what are you talking about? do you actually know that 1k $ is a ton of money in most asia? its so relative!
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1. iStock is micro
2. Lisa's an independent, small %age. She took the same %age cut as other indies when they did the dirty on us.
3. She's been building her port and sales on iStock (and elsewhere) for a long time. So her huge sales slump is hitting her badly.
4. She is seeing the writing on the wall, that the micro and mid-stock projections aren't good for more than a couple of years, IHO.
But I'm sure Lisa can answer for herself. ;)
I couldn't have said it better myself Liz . :)
Add to the above list that I have been working at capacity for 7 years and have seen income drop for the past two in a row.
Luis, you keep harping on my income. Suffice to say I am in a (MUCH) better position than you are to assess my income and future prospects. Why don't you worry about your own income and future in microstock and stop wildly and insultingly speculating on mine?!!
seriously what are you talking about? do you actually know that 1k $ is a ton of money in most asia? its so relative!
Not sure if you realize it, but most of the people posting in this discussion are living in Western Europe or USA. We have to make our financial decisions based on the realities of where we live, not what income levels are halfway round the globe.
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... The reality is, we don't know how low commissions are going but there's a strong likelihood that they'll be much lower in 5 years time. And there's still no sign of competition weakening. It get harder and harder to compete with the millions of images being uploaded each year, especially if your passion is in one of the most saturated genres.
Not sure that's true. It seems to me that 3 of the Big 4 have lowered commissions in the last couple of years ... and sales have suffered as a result. From my own data and that of others I'd be astonished if IS and FT are not earning lower profits now than before their commission cuts. The one agency that hasn't reduced commissions, SS, appears to be winning all the customers too. Not sure if there's a cause/effect relationship there; more likely that buyers prefer SS's functionality, simple pricing architecture and excellent search results.
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1. iStock is micro
2. Lisa's an independent, small %age. She took the same %age cut as other indies when they did the dirty on us.
3. She's been building her port and sales on iStock (and elsewhere) for a long time. So her huge sales slump is hitting her badly.
4. She is seeing the writing on the wall, that the micro and mid-stock projections aren't good for more than a couple of years, IHO.
But I'm sure Lisa can answer for herself. ;)
I couldn't have said it better myself Liz . :)
Add to the above list that I have been working at capacity for 7 years and have seen income drop for the past two in a row.
Luis, you keep harping on my income. Suffice to say I am in a (MUCH) better position than you are to assess my income and future prospects. Why don't you worry about your own income and future in microstock and stop wildly and insultingly speculating on mine?!!
I believe you are overreacting once as you can see on my post I fully respect you and your work but sure I can handle it, sorry anyway
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With over 6000 Images in traditional RF (macro)... Through four different channels...
Definitively no increase in sales over the last 6 months. Sorry to say that.
Shutterstock is winning big time on it's subscription model and has always had a very restrictive commission policy. Cleaver business model, but problematic when it succeeds... For us...
I'm wondering that you are wondering, I can see a higher production value to some degree but overall your macro portfolio is the same stuff that you are doing for the micros so you are cannibalizing your own macro sales. I still think you can do good with macro but it has to be different or at least to be different from one owns micro portfolio.
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I believe you are overreacting once as you can see on my post I fully respect you and your work but sure I can handle it, sorry anyway
No, overreacting would have been telling you to F&#@ Off. ;)
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if 5k $ doesn't make a person rich I wonder how most of the people can live and what makes them? incredible poor?
5k $ doesn't make you rich at all we are talking about revenue here, 5k should the absolute minimum you are making if you wanna do stock fulltime.
seriously what are you talking about? do you actually know that 1k $ is a ton of money in most asia? its so relative!
Very seriously. And we are talking about the western world here. And again it's revenue you must be very young or a very bad businessman.
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Not sure that's true. It seems to me that 3 of the Big 4 have lowered commissions in the last couple of years ... and sales have suffered as a result. From my own data and that of others I'd be astonished if IS and FT are not earning lower profits now than before their commission cuts. The one agency that hasn't reduced commissions, SS, appears to be winning all the customers too. Not sure if there's a cause/effect relationship there; more likely that buyers prefer SS's functionality, simple pricing architecture and excellent search results.
I'm not seeing that at all with SS. I feel like SS hit its peak in 2009 and has been in a slow decline since. They have mitigated that decline by offering alternate buying options, but still a decline in overall sales (probably stable or little growth in overall revenue). I actually think they will start to decline "for real" when they run out of new pricing schemes to inflate their numbers.
Everybody has their own results though.
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I'm not seeing that at all with SS. I feel like SS hit its peak in 2009 and has been in a slow decline since. They have mitigated that decline by offering alternate buying options, but still a decline in overall sales (probably stable or little growth in overall revenue). I actually think they will start to decline "for real" when they run out of new pricing schemes to inflate their numbers.
Everybody has their own results though.
Not to pick on Shutterstock because some of the other companies had similar stories. IStock moved their prices around several times, so it deceptive looked like the company was growing rapidly. Then, they and other companies started making mistakes by toying with their numbers. Well, at least, mistakes from the contributors point of view.
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I think you are on very dangerous territory if you say that society of today wouldn't need "meaningless subjects like arts, literature, history and similar stuff"....all those are utterly important for too many reasons to list here. They might not be the best choice for young students that want job-security, high salaries etc., but in my opinion they are essential for humanity - for example regarding history - there are many times in history that we wouldn't want repeated right? And the soul needs fed too (arts & literature).
Absolutely!!! .....though if they eliminated religion I wouldn't object ::)
dito
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Lisa, is right in a sense. Look at all these millions of out of work, bums, ( no disrespect), going into the Arts, creative this and that. When they leave school or their courses, theres no work, no jobs at all for them and what happens? dole que! and thats the reallity of it. How many times havent one heard, Oh! Im studying to be a high-flying Art-director! oh yeah, 3 years later, dole-que. Its all BS.
Today, education is a must and not just any education, its no point anymore, studying meaningless subjects like arts, litterature, history and similar stuff, to secure a job future, they have to study one of the bona-fide, academics, that will lead to something, it doesnt have to be, medicine, law, accountancy or enginnering, but something that gives a finished job or position.
The days of sitting around the Montmarte in paris, sipping wine, mingeling with the likes of the Impressionists are LONG GONE!.
I have my MFA in Silversmithing (yup, what was I thinking? :D) and somehow I've managed to be self-sustaining with a good deal of my employment having some sort of creative angle, even using many of the skills used in pursuit of my degree for a number of years. Never once relyed on public assistance. My nephew recently graduated with his degree in film production and within a short while managed to land a full time job as a production assistant for a well-known producer. Not saying it's easy to graduate with an arts degree but it doesn't have to be a one-way ticket to poverty either. You just need to be more creative with your employment pursuits and networking - you're not likely to open the local paper and see them advertising for artists.
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You write the song, I'll sing it; and we can clean up selling earplugs. ;D
:D