So, I just got sick of all the competition on these microstock sites, and I set up my own web site (www.photosfordesigns.com).

Who knows if it will work, I really don't have a clue.. it won't be easy that's for sure. Things that make me feel hopeful are things like, on a search for 'male retro fashion' (and there are other searches this applies to), my site is no. 7 on page one of google results, before the microstock sites.. so it is possible to compete in google with the 'big boys' if you know how to search engine optimise.. the question is, do people REALLY use google, or do they go to their preferred provider, also are they prepared to pay 10 quid for a download?.. Will they trust a non-corporation?

So I'm starting off like this, if I don't make sales, I'll drop the price, although not by a massive %, and I will only sell my images on other sites where I can set my own price, and that don't do subscription sales.. so that my images will never be available cheaper on another site no matter where you go it will be a uniform price across the board.

So that's the story, just thought I would let you guys know that, it is possible to do other things, maybe even to sell directly to the buyer on your own, although it remains to be seen, but if it is a disaster I'll let you know It'll be an interesting experiment either way!!

I feel the same as you do. At the moment I have a pro account with clustershot.com with 400 images setting my own prices
http://bidphotos.clustershot.com

I feel the same as you do. At the moment I have a pro account with clustershot.com with 400 images setting my own prices
http://bidphotos.clustershot.com

Awww   Yeah, I think this new model is worth a try! I'm on Zym tho   I think I'll be sticking to those two only, my site and Zym, that's it.. and see how it goes!!

Looks like you're off to a great start, showing very highly in the Google rankings.  I certainly admire the ambition and the resourcefulness and dedication needed to chart your own course.

Your work is very good, but will a buyer want to just search for images within your portfolio when he/she can find tens of thousands of similar shots searching within SS, FT, DT, ISP, etc.?  You will probably attract some people unaware of the microstock agencies and who used Google to search and found you before they found the agencies.

I'm guessing that this approach works best for artists who have a very identifiable style and whose images have practically a trademarked look all to themselves, such as LuMaxArt.  Again, no knock against your shots, but you're essentially setting up a mini-agency that covers a wide range of topics and styles, so why would a user search within a very tiny galaxy of good images rather than a huge universe of images at one of the big agencies.

I'm very eager to hear updates on how well this works for you.  Best of luck for success!  

Thanks that's a great message

Yeah I totally agree.. if let's say LuMaxArt deleted his gallery from all microstock sites and said right, the ONLY way you can get my stuff now is directly from me on my own web site located 'here', he'd make a fortune.. it would be much easier for him or anyone else that is recognisable from the other users on those sites..

Still my hope is that someone will see images that are different, I'm moving away from the usual 'stock' way of shooting, if I can give them something different it might work.. I know if I saw the PERFECT image for a project I was working on, and knew I wouldn't find similar elsewhere I'd give it a go, but I definately want to add loads more images and things over the next year or so!

You could always try The3dStudio.com with a few of your images, they pay 60% commission, you can set your own prices default $12, and no waiting to reach the minimum payout, and they have customers.

David 

I'm result 5 in google for 'food images for commercial use'.. if nothing else I should get a job in search engine optimisation for some other stock site if it all goes belly up for me 

I wish you all the luck in the world. The website looks great and I really admire what you're doing.
Please keep us updated!

Aww thanks so much, it's really nice to see so much support!! And I will for sure, either way, I'll let you guys know!

Good for you.  Very gutsy.  As Lisa said, you may want to hire a lawyer to draft up your license terms.  Copying the ones from FotoSearch may not be the best idea for someone trying to protect IP.

Yours:
3.1 Licensee may store the Licensed Material in a digital library, network configuration or similar arrangement to allow the Licensed Material to be viewed by employees, partners and clients of Licensee, but under no circumstance may the Licensed Material ever be used by more than 10 Users unless otherwise provided in writing by the Licensor.

Theirs:
3.1. Licensee may store the Licensed Material in a digital library, network configuration or similar arrangement to allow the Licensed Material to be viewed by employees, partners and clients of Licensee, but under no circumstance may the Licensed Material ever be used by more than 10 Users unless a separate seat license is purchased for each additional User, before such additional use begins.

etc...

http://www.fotosearch.com/stock-photo-licensing/digital-vision-video/

Fotosearch copied my license the cheek!! In fact Sean, there is a generic 'guide' image license provided by a friendly solicitor that has already done the rounds, so I'd imagine many stock web sites have pulled from that particular experts wording, and tweaked/had it looked over by their own solicitor to fit within their own sales ethos. Apart from the bigger web sites (corporations) that I'm sure have their own legal team to word these things from scratch etc, anyway, it's not something that concerns me one bit, and I'm not quite sure why it concerns you?

Hi Lisa, thanks for the message, I have an excellent solicitor on hand who is a personal friend, and I also have an expert legal contact that specialises in copyright law to ask questions to free of charge.. as it stands, the reason I have my pricing at �10 is to prevent mis-use before it happens.. if you want to make a quick buck on someone's images, best to pay �1 or less and re-distribute etc at will. So, I'm hoping it won't happen, but if I do find my images mis-used in the future, I'll cross that bridge and I will pursue it legally.

The only web site agent I have heard of to date of actually legally pursing downloaders who are not abiding to license agreements etc is SS. It is not common practice to chase these people with the aim of acheiving compensation on other web sites at all, in most cases it seems an offender, for example, someone stealing images and uploading them to another site as their own work, they simply have their accounts deleted, but I have yet to hear of the photographer getting the 'download' money back from that web site (bar compensations made by ss having chased mis-users directly).. so, I have more faith in myself to make sure I'm compensated for illegal usage, than the majority of the web sites I used to submit to tbh!!

Quote from: hqimages on August 24, 2009, 13:10

it's not something that concerns me one bit, and I'm not quite sure why it concerns you?

I don't care in the least what you do with your licensing terms.   You're right in that there are quite a few sites out there with the samely worded terms:
http://tinyurl.com/kktugw

Like I said, good luck!

Good. And thank you.

When can we start submiting

lol! Well, you know, I thought about that.. I really did, and then I thought of all your guys images taking away from my own, and I wanted the stage  What I might do in the future though, if this model works (we're talking two years minimum down the line), is set up an etsy type conglomeration of sellers, not on that site though, on a new one, where you have sales of prints, downloads, maybe calenders and cute things too.. I would do it so that when the buyer downloads the image, you get emailed all the sales details along with me, as if you really are running your own shop, I might even charge an annual fee, like flickr, and then if someone buys something, the money goes directly to your paypal each time, and you manage the customer yourself..

Anyway lot's of idea's but baby steps, c how this does first   

My hat's off to you, Hillary.

I will anxiously watch this thread and am sending all the luck I can your way! Brilliant idea, gutsy move- I REALLY hope it works out for you!!!

Katrina

Hi Katrina, thanks!! I need the luck I'll take that one

I'll check that out, thanks Jonathan!!

I've actually thought about doing this later on when my collection size hits some kind of critical mass. I think the real trick to success with a photo site is:

Searching Options

If you look at all the top agencies, you'll notice that as you go from number 1 on down, the search engines become less and less sophisticated in control. For starters, you might wanna try emulating shutterstocks take on it with a keyword elimination box, that alone is very powerful in narrowing results accurately. I'd also look into search or categorizing by "feeling" and "concepts" rather than just subjects, that seems to be one of Getty Images techniques, and they have some very interesting ways of searching their collection.

How did you setup that site? Was it a template or something?

Good luck with it!

* blush

omg, why am I so embarrased, lol!! Thanks David, that's dead nice of you, I'm mortified but grinning!!  Thank you!! lol!

It should appear at the top of the home page shortly, as a DMAA_Group tweet.

Quote from: hqimages on August 24, 2009, 14:32

* blush

omg, why am I so embarrased, lol!! Thanks David, that's dead nice of you, I'm mortified but grinning!!  Thank you!! lol!

It should appear at the top of the home page shortly, as a DMAA_Group tweet.

Ok now I'm properly red!! THANK you

When talking about moving to a contributors agency, it is better from a software perspective to keep it small and quality so the database can deal with keyword searches.
  
I have done loads of research on how searches work for bigger collections of images 1 million+, the keywords are in one database server with the image info, sitting between that is one or more servers with the search engine which is an Indexer and each may have 10 million image keywords in memory, then the third transation server is the front end that sends the request back and forward, I have found a few options and will try to blog in a couple of weeks on just what is required and what is out there for a start up.

So keeping it small is the best way to go!

David    

Hi Lisa, thanks for the message, I have an excellent solicitor on hand who is a personal friend, and I also have an expert legal contact that specialises in copyright law to ask questions to free of charge..

This is great.  Sounds like you have all your legal bases covered, and without spending a fortune! 

Jonathan, really great info to have about PACA, too.  Nice to know there are resources available for people who want to strike out on their own

Someone I met socially about 18 months ago told me about a friend of his who sells his own images here;

http://www.buyimage.co.uk/photonet/homepage/company.html

Apparently the guy in question works in London, in an engineering-related field, during the week and then spends every weekend travelling the to take photographs and uploading them to his site. He reckoned the guy was earning more from the images than he did from his day-job.

I find it slightly strange that he absolutely refuses to accept submissions from other photographers though. Once you've gone to the trouble of setting up the site then more images could only improve the choice for customers and you get to earn a chunk of their commissions.

Anyway, a bit OT, but evidence that it can be done successfully. I'd assume if it wasn't working for him then he'd put his stuff on Alamy or elsewhere.

I think taking just 20% commission would be very generous __ 30-40% would be more likely. He's only got 18k images too. If that grew to 180K and sales grew anything like proportionately then he could probably give up his day-job. Most business people who become wealthy do it by utilising the efforts of others.

I just don't think it makes good business sense, 18k is a LOT of images.. I presuming he's not in competition with international brands/sites with millions of pics, he probably sources his clients locally/nationally.. he makes 100% profit on his sales, and probably has absolutely tiny overheads.

The minute you open that up, you have less chance of making a sale on your own work, so immediately you have a pay cut, and then on other people's work you are selling, they have not only increased the amount of hours you have to work to support them, but they also increase your overheads as regards servers, space, programming, legal etc etc etc. So out of whatever, let's say the 50% you make off them, you are working HARDER to make less money.. now if you can get an investor and a team of minimum 5 people to launch an international site, that might work, but again, you probably won't turn a profit for years one and two, especially with the market being a saturated as it is.

It's a different way of thinking, if you sell locally from your own web site, you're making a massive return, with minimum work/output/overheads on your end..

Plenty of stock sites have gone under with 180k images in their database, so it's not just a question of more images=more money..

then build a site elsewhere on the same framework for others to join together as a worldwide community..

Well, then you're just making yet another microstock site, and what good does that do you?  Not much and eventual closing if history is any indication.

Stick with your own work and making a niche that attracts buyers.  There's plenty of people already out there doing it.

That 'ignore' button is a Godsend, I love all your guys ideas and links.. thanks for a great chat

Good luck to you, I think it is worth it with the pictures you have !
It makes me wonder why Yuri did not go on its own yet 
L

Well done good for you 

Lets not forget that at times the customer base gets as fed up with the big boys as much as us contributers, so who knows they may start to turn back to the small independent providers for value and the personal touch

Wishing you well

i've had a website http://cascoly.com since the mid 90's, concentrating on online games and travel guides/photography.  5 years ago, i had about 500K hits/month, now it's down to about 300K/mo, but income has never much more than paid for hosting costs, etc.   i used to sell cds with photography but that seems to have dried up in the last coupla years, too;  there's just so much out there, it's hard to get found. 

i made the choice so me years ago to just do online games as a sideline, after having it as my main career for more thsn 15 years, and my photography is mostly travel oriented, so my experience may not be the best example for someone just getting started  - travel is my primary goal, and if i can sell some images to help pay those costs, i'm satsified; i'm not looking for a full time job.  i had a gallery for my images, but when it had some db prblems, i didnt bother to get it running again - surprisingly with litte difference in traffic  to the rest of my site

steve

Quote from: hqimages on August 24, 2009, 09:15

So, I just got sick of all the competition on these microstock sites, and I set up my own web site (www.photosfordesigns.com).

So that's the story, just thought I would let you guys know that, it is possible to do other things, maybe even to sell directly to the buyer on your own, although it remains to be seen, but if it is a disaster I'll let you know It'll be an interesting experiment either way!!

Hey, it worked for me.  I'm still subbing to micro, but I make a bunch more free lancing either by selling something already done to a specific buyer or contracting to shoot what the customer wants.

In the legal sense,  all of the people I deal with have their own terms and so far,  ALL have my interest at the forefront.  My work is always mine, there is a limit agreed to upfront on usage, usually one time only and limited to 'x' printings (magazines/books/etc),  the only extra to them is use of an image in advertising the product.  I have a signed contract with each as a free lance photog all terms understood...   and so far in 3 plus years, I have never had a problem.

I tell my local photog friends to get out there and sell themselves.  4 digit paydays always beat 30 cent subscriptions.  Selling direct as your own agent and in need of legal foundations... thats a little tougher.   I would reccomend, looking to publishes, art directors, editors and such.... and make sales there.  They have legal to protect themselves, which in turn, protects your intellectual property and rights.   =tom

That's really nice to hear Tom, thanks for posting!