MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: deyu16 on February 27, 2010, 21:18
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I welcome all users to answer this poll.I know that most of you consider that all depends on talent,equipment,time spent,etc etc...But all of you know that it's all about the money!So please be honest and let's see the real statistics about this business.Thanks a lot
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You need higher categories: There are many here who earn $5000+, and a dozen or so who make $10,000+ per month.
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Please be aware that anyone can edit the pool! If you make >2000$ please edit the pool ....thanks
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Since
- you are a very new anonymous poster with no portfolio links or other info whatsoever,
- your four previous posts were just loud spamming referral links and pimping cushystock without any other useful info,
- since Leaf organized a well organized earnings poll a while ago,
I won't answer the poll and ploink you. Bye.
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Ha ha ha...
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WOW:|:|:| So I was mistaking when I said that all depends on talent,equipment etc.....the real criteria is BEING NEW TO THIS FORUM,NOT ENOUGH QUALITY POSTS and NO PORTOFOLIO LINKS!!!! THATS OUTRAGEOUS!:)))))
I started this post so that I can get an idea about microstock and encourage people to see the potential of this business!
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Every month is different. Last week I had my best day ever at SS with just over $28. Some days I make just $0.33.
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WOW:|:|:| So I was mistaking when I said that all depends on talent,equipment etc.....the real criteria is BEING NEW TO THIS FORUM,NOT ENOUGH QUALITY POSTS and NO PORTOFOLIO LINKS!!!! THATS OUTRAGEOUS!:)))))
Hope now you are happy and maybe I qualify for being the author of this pool!I do not need criticism JUST HONEST RESPONSES!THANKS A LOT AND DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY!
Don't take it personally ! He's always like that ;)
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I started this post ................. encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
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Ok, there we go, the month of February :
SS - 16 $
DT - 5 $
FT - 2 $
IS - 1 $
Can't remember exactly but I think all the others are on 0.
Successful or what ? :)
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The time of stock is really really really over by now. Yuri Arcurs is sitting near McDonald's with a styrofoam cup, begging for cents. Really. Better get out. Nothing to see here. Move on. Really. 8)
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
The only reason I can think of is that the people that want to encourage others to participate aren't making enough money so they want to try and get some referrals.
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
The only reason I can think of is that the people that want to encourage others to participate aren't making enough money so they want to try and get some referrals.
Exactly... ;D
Patrick.
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I would guess that some people are just naturally helpful and enjoy teaching and seeing their students succeed. It seems to me that there are enough "Make money from your snapshots" articles out there that the few microstockers that want to teach/encourage others wouldn't really make that much of a difference.
Just my two cents.
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I wasn't going to talk in this topic, but I guess there are a lot more guys just like Yuri, afraid of competition and want that everyone give up so you can get the all the royalties..! You are all so good why being afraid?? Why putting on fire every post.. :P
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I would guess that some people are just naturally helpful and enjoy teaching and seeing their students succeed.
I agree, there are people who have talent for that and are happy to share their knowledge.
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I started this post ................. encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
Do you think that your idea is right??.. If everyone thinks like that the world will end soon, there will be no jobs, not education, not development..! If you have knowledge and don't want to teach anybody?? Life ain't correct that way, not just in stock photography..!! Sharing is very important, it wouldn't be nice to be old and think that we haven't help anyone, doesn't matter the subject!
Of course there are certain persons that want just referrals and so on, but honestly making 200$ like deyu16 and myself aren't done with just a day of work.. first you can do some research then TALK!
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Quote from: fotografer on Today at 02:59
Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
Quote from: deyu16 on Yesterday at 21:56
I started this post ................. encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION.Let me give you a example where would microstock bee if there was only 10 photographers submititng?Do you see those photographers earn 1 MIL per month?You and others like you see the competition and always struggling to get better make more exceptional images that sell that's why competition is a very important factor in microstock and anyother business ,if there wasn't any competition anybody would do what they like sell what they want there will be chaos....So don't be so selfish and understand the basics of a business first and then criticise...
Thanks for all others who honestly answer the pool
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I started this post ................. encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
Do you think that your idea is right??.. If everyone thinks like that the world will end soon, there will be no jobs, not education, not development..! If you have knowledge and don't want to teach anybody?? Life ain't correct that way, not just in stock photography..!! Sharing is very important, it wouldn't be nice to be old and think that we haven't help anyone, doesn't matter the subject!
Of course there are certain persons that want just referrals and so on, but honestly making 200$ like deyu16 and myself aren't done with just a day of work.. first you can do some research then TALK!
I wonder if inviting people to the party is actually helping them at all. They get false hopes, end up spending a bunch of money on equipment, spend a lot of time trying to copy bestsellers, end up frustrated and quit. Ok, maybe only 90%. Would rather help an old lady cross the street. I don't think guys like Yuri are afraid of the competition. It's just numbers, 500,000 contributors= piss poor RPI for everyone. I would recomend micro to someone who I thought had a lot of talent and was in need, but I wouldn't BS him a say it's easy money. There are any number of jobs that pay better for most.
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I started this post ................. encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
Do you think that your idea is right??.. If everyone thinks like that the world will end soon, there will be no jobs, not education, not development..! If you have knowledge and don't want to teach anybody?? Life ain't correct that way, not just in stock photography..!! Sharing is very important, it wouldn't be nice to be old and think that we haven't help anyone, doesn't matter the subject!
Of course there are certain persons that want just referrals and so on, but honestly making 200$ like deyu16 and myself aren't done with just a day of work.. first you can do some research then TALK!
I wonder if inviting people to the party is actually helping them at all. They get false hopes, end up spending a bunch of money on equipment, spend a lot of time trying to copy bestsellers, end up frustrated and quit. Ok, maybe only 90%. Would rather help an old lady cross the street. I don't think guys like Yuri are afraid of the competition. It's just numbers, 500,000 contributors= piss poor RPI for everyone. I would recomend micro to someone who I thought had a lot of talent and was in need, but I wouldn't BS him a say it's easy money. There are any number of jobs that pay better for most.
I am 100% with you! I dont encourage people to join, but if I have a friend that wants to know I will tell him and why not helping getting approved at agencies and so on..! Of course it is necessary a lot of work to start getting some bucks, but it is a great feeling seeing that anyone enjoys your photos..! I also keep up my blog as a motivation to myself, I set small goals and milestones, easy to get and it keeps me focus on getting more success and learning more about photography! I am not copying others photographers photos, I am just shooting around, almost everything, seeing what is demanded and see what works in terms of sales..!
My main issue is when guys talk about referrals, because in my case got just 2 or 3 which is like 30$ from almost a year in stock, so no big deal when I am at around 1300$! My referrals haven't got my 300 approved at IS, it was done by myself with my own effort! I just want some respect when guys say things totally unproperly and not true!
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Seriously, I think you have to be pretty good to make any dent at all in this business now. I used to be very bullish (that's one of those business school terms) on stock and recommended it to anyone with a camera who I knew and liked. But not so any more.
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Seriously, I think you have to be pretty good to make any dent at all in this business now. I used to be very bullish (that's one of those business school terms) on stock and recommended it to anyone with a camera who I knew and liked. But not so any more.
I repeat I don't recommend to anyone! If a person shows up I will help in, easy!
About this business, I know it is hard, but as I said before I am seeing little niches, I am working on them, and sales are happening and increasing also! :)
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YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION.Let me give you a example where would microstock bee if there was only 10 photographers submititng?...
Are you living in the past or something? The last thing microstock lacks is competition
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lol so there is no competition?
FORGET! :P
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Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION.Let me give you a example where would microstock bee if there was only 10 photographers submititng?Do you see those photographers earn 1 MIL per month?You and others like you see the competition and always struggling to get better make more exceptional images that sell that's why competition is a very important factor in microstock and anyother business ,if there wasn't any competition anybody would do what they like sell what they want there will be chaos....So don't be so selfish and understand the basics of a business first and then criticise...
Thanks for all others who honestly answer the pool
I hope you haven't paid for that business course!
Generally in commercial business the idea is to make as much profit for the business as possible, I'm intrigued to hear your analogy of how you do that by helping other businesses in the same sector as you take away your market share.
There's nothing wrong with being on amicable terms with your business rivals, and to sometimes group together where the aim is of mutual benefit to all concerned but to encourage them to compete against you is not something I'd recommend, on this business course have they given you any real world examples of where a successful business encourages more competition.
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Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION.
More ha ha ha.
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I would guess that some people are just naturally helpful and enjoy teaching and seeing their students succeed. It seems to me that there are enough "Make money from your snapshots" articles out there that the few microstockers that want to teach/encourage others wouldn't really make that much of a difference.
Every bit makes a difference in some sense. Rationalizing it that way doesn't help the issue.
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YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION
That may be what they teach in business school but in reality most companies strive to eliminate competition by whatever means available or at a minimum to set prices illegally.
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YOU CAN NOT BE TRULLY GOOD IF THERE IS NO COMPETITION.
I think you're misinterpreting what they're teaching you.
Yes, competition is healthy. Directly helping your competition in most cases isn't. I can't imagine any business school teaching the latter.
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Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.
OK, so I have the only shop selling apples in my town. I'm doing just fine, everyone loves apples and they come to me to buy them (they have no choice). I exist happily for years. Then the guy down the road, seeing how well I'm doing, decides he's going to sell apples. He either has to sell better ones for the same price or the same ones cheaper. Either way, I'm screwed.
The World Bank has shafted the Developing World this way for at least four decades - "Oh look, X country grows coffee/tea/cocoa/fruit, you have to do it to or we won't lend to you". All that happens is a surplus is produced and the worldwide price drops.
Ask for your money back on that course.
(Of course, if I introduce a friend who shoots totally different things than me to microstock, I'm not shooting myself in the foot. ;) )
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Before joining this "microstockgroup" I have just talked with nice guys, I wonder if I should join this forum for a long time, and decided yes, maybe I am wrong!.. I think that there a lot of guys that just want to put "newbies" (whatever) down and down, so they have no competiton, that's the real business right?? My pictures are just my pictures, they won't compete with anyone, I just don't get why is this when someone less "earner" talk in a topic!..
when do we become successfull?? 1k a month is enough? then I will talk :)
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And here I was wondering where all the knockdown/drag out threads went. ;D I guess you just have to hit a powder keg issue.
Personally, I don't worry about competition that much. I know all the work it took to get to where I am, so if someone else wants to do that, then they deserve a little success. I can also see where people are coming from about too many contributors. Some keywords are so diluted with "me too" copycat garbage that new good images with those keywords may never get seen. But, I think that is the nature of the beast with the micros. Everyone was invited to the party. You knew that when you came, so it's kind of hard to complain about them when you get there.
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Let's see, the saying goes "Don't hate the player, hate the game."
We can complain all we want about people sending in new photographers (if blogs and sites don't do it, Google and Bing or ads will, blame the agencies if you want), prices dropping (didn't the macros complain the same way?, and RM when RF came along), free photos (its not going away, and may be the future), competition (good or bad, it will always be there), ............. all day.
As long as someone can make money doing it, it will be there. As long as there is a better way to do something, it will come.
If we lead or follow, it does not really matter; change will happen.
Some people are best as photographers, some people are better at marketing, some better at teaching. It’s all a business. Photos are sold, but there is a middle man in every purchase.
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Seriously, I think you have to be pretty good to make any dent at all in this business now. I used to be very bullish (that's one of those business school terms) on stock and recommended it to anyone with a camera who I knew and liked. But not so any more.
"Pretty good" has changed. Today you need to have way above average knowledge of your camera settings, lighting, and composition plus stuff like Photoshop, business, and SEO.
If you lack the skills or perseverance this most likely will be a frustrating and disappointing experience. Kind of like the recent "I'm destitute" post where the person quickly hit a wall.
This ain't easy. People who tell you it is easy most likely are earning money by telling you that.
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I think that there a lot of guys that just want to put "newbies" (whatever) down and down, so they have no competiton, that's the real business right??
I think most people here are decent and aren't trying to put anybody down. A few do, most don't. I'd say they're trying to paint a realistic picture this isn't easy.
My pictures are just my pictures, they won't compete with anyone, I just don't get why is this when someone less "earner" talk in a topic!.. when do we become successfull?? 1k a month is enough? then I will talk :)
Won't compete with anyone? If someone buys one of your pictures they mostly likely chose yours over somebody elses. That's competition. If on the other hand you don't plan to ever sell a photo, why are you here?
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Everyone was invited to the party. You knew that when you came, so it's kind of hard to complain about them when you get there.
No one was "invited" to the party. Most everyone had to go looking for it ;) .
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A good question would be how many actually make a full time living off of microstock. Dollar amounts are not necessarily an indication of success. It all depends on what part of the world or country you live in. In many parts of the world, the cost of living is much less than in other parts so some photographers would be able to live off much lower numbers.
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A good question would be how many actually make a full time living off of microstock. Dollar amounts are not necessarily an indication of success. It all depends on what part of the world or country you live in. In many parts of the world, the cost of living is much less than in other parts so some photographers would be able to live off much lower numbers.
I should move to the US. I've just been doing some comparison checks on some lighting equipment I was thinking of buying. The stuff I'm looking at either isn't available in, and doesn't shop to the UK; or it costs about twice as much here. Plus the general cost of living is much lower.
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I should move to the US.
Sorry, we've closed the borders. We don't want anymore competition. ;)
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No one was "invited" to the party. Most everyone had to go looking for it ;) .
Ha. Ha. True. Although, I have gotten email invitations from small stock sites to join. So, maybe my original invite was lost in the mail.
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I think that there a lot of guys that just want to put "newbies" (whatever) down and down, so they have no competiton, that's the real business right??
I think most people here are decent and aren't trying to put anybody down. A few do, most don't. I'd say they're trying to paint a realistic picture this isn't easy.
My pictures are just my pictures, they won't compete with anyone, I just don't get why is this when someone less "earner" talk in a topic!.. when do we become successfull?? 1k a month is enough? then I will talk :)
Won't compete with anyone? If someone buys one of your pictures they mostly likely chose yours over somebody elses. That's competition. If on the other hand you don't plan to ever sell a photo, why are you here?
one thing is planning and selling pictures, other is just putting all competition to the floor, I guess you could do that but do it properly, the right way which is giving the market better pics than the competitor, that's good! The bad is putting down so you wont have any kind of opponents, it is just my way of thinking, I don't mind to compete I just want to do what I am doing and stop reading this non-sense BS just to eliminate everyone, yeah we are all going to leave so you can get all the royalties! I am not talking to you directly, I am talking to guys that thing this way!
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Why would we want to encourage people to see the potential of this business? All that does is create more competition.
I would guess that some people are just naturally helpful and enjoy teaching and seeing their students succeed. It seems to me that there are enough "Make money from your snapshots" articles out there that the few microstockers that want to teach/encourage others wouldn't really make that much of a difference.
Every bit makes a difference in some sense. Rationalizing it that way doesn't help the issue.
I was just giving my answer to the question, not endorsing one school of thought or the other.
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When I said "encourage people to see the potential of this business" I was talking about you guys,the microstockers because most like me don't have the idea how much money is to be made in microstock....About competition the microstock market is the most competitive market! You misunderstood me when I said about competition! I said that in any business you must have competition! I DIDN'T SAID THAT MICROSTOCK HAS NO COMPETITION! All in all I am happy with the results...so far we have some interesting numbers...Thanks all for answering.
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DANG! I had a good month and was looking forward to flaunting my numbers. Too bad the thread got so diluted with the expected bickering.
Oh well, Guess I'll just have to vote for the Big Six. ::)
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When I said "encourage people to see the potential of this business" I was talking about you guys,the microstockers because most like me don't have the idea how much money is to be made in microstock...
Thank goodness you came along to help us realize the potential, then. :)
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Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.
OK, so I have the only shop selling apples in my town. I'm doing just fine, everyone loves apples and they come to me to buy them (they have no choice). I exist happily for years. Then the guy down the road, seeing how well I'm doing, decides he's going to sell apples. He either has to sell better ones for the same price or the same ones cheaper. Either way, I'm screwed.
The World Bank has shafted the Developing World this way for at least four decades - "Oh look, X country grows coffee/tea/cocoa/fruit, you have to do it to or we won't lend to you". All that happens is a surplus is produced and the worldwide price drops.
Ask for your money back on that course.
(Of course, if I introduce a friend who shoots totally different things than me to microstock, I'm not shooting myself in the foot. ;) )
Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
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I started this post so that I can get an idea about microstock and encourage people to see the potential of this business!!!!!
So, you want us to help you bring even more competitors? Wouldn't it be better to leave that task to the microstock agencies, and we as photographers do our job: Make photos!
Aren't there enough microstock cheerleaders with blogs trying to refer as many new "photographers" as they can?
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.for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it
Are you sure you went to business school? I'll stick with number 1 (where I wouldn't go "bankrupted" as the only seller).
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.for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it
Are you sure you went to business school? I'll stick with number 1 (where I wouldn't go "bankrupted" as the only seller).
ROFL :D :D :D
Seriously deyu16, you should ask for a refund from your business school. Sorry!
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.for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it
Are you sure you went to business school? I'll stick with number 1 (where I wouldn't go "bankrupted" as the only seller).
I am big fan of yours, and I see you respect every guy here at forum and IS forum, but today I am seeing a different guy, why is that??
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.for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it
Are you sure you went to business school? I'll stick with number 1 (where I wouldn't go "bankrupted" as the only seller).
ROFL :D :D :D
Seriously deyu16, you should ask for a refund from your business school. Sorry!
you are such an... god! always bashing everyone! why is that? what do you gain with this attitude over and over??
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
it is simple, go and get a new business! :) if you don't want to have competition then leave!
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Let's see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can?
This of course in both cases (apples and microstock) is far better for the buyer but not for the supplier.
I'm not necessarily wanting to ban new members or refusing to help new members; even Sean was very helpful to me when I started, and he still is helpful to newbies, despite the sometimes-gruff exterior [1]. I was just questioning your bizarre allegation that competition is good for the supplier.
Please explain how I will go bankrupt with my apple business if there is no competition? The competition won't necessarily be apples, it might be pears or oranges. This isn't the case with stock images. E.g, Sean sells gazillions of people and 'product' shots and isn't going to lose even one sale to my elephant shots, and vice versa. Each of us only has to bother about competitors in our own area of interest.
[1] Actually given that competition exists, it's in his interest to do so, to make sure that the whole site supplies a quality product.
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
it is simple, go and get a new business! :) if you don't want to have competition then leave!
The new business won't have competition?
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
it is simple, go and get a new business! :) if you don't want to have competition then leave!
The new business won't have competition?
EXACTLY!!! so you will have to deal with competitors, doesn't matter if it is stock, apples or monkeys! Why are you all trying to eliminate competitors? You could do that but they won't go away simple, so accept them, help or not, but respect at least!
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
it is simple, go and get a new business! :) if you don't want to have competition then leave!
The new business won't have competition?
EXACTLY!!! so you will have to deal with competitors, doesn't matter if it is stock, apples or monkeys! Why are you all trying to eliminate competitors? You could do that but they won't go away simple, so accept them, help or not, but respect at least!
One method of dealing with competition is to eliminate them. In business I don't think there's any rule about needing to accept or respect a competitor.
And I never said I agree or disagree with the concept. Just adding info to fuel thought.
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I think what deyu16 is trying to say is that if there was not competition....the product would not be as good. Like the apple stand for example...if you were the only vender...you could stick rotten apples in there as well as good ones if there is not competition. The other apple vender may have bought those rotten apples and decided he got tired of it and will sell better apples. The customer is going to go where the supply is better. Competition makes suppliers create better products which I will agree would be ""better for buyers"" unless you were one of those suppliers who strove to create the better product, therefore you would sell more because of this. It basically all boils down to reputation. There is competition in every business in one form or another.
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it is true, there is no rule, it is just my way, I respect yours I can assure you that!
man I love this forum, thinked a lot of getting in it, now I am ignore from 4 guys, ok! I was going good once I arrive here, now I am a bad guy :P I am just doing what my parents told me, respect others but don't let them get to you!
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Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
Lets say there are now thousands of apple sellers all selling the same perfect apples. And while buyer demand has increased it's only a fraction of the supply of apples that have flooded the market. What does your business class suggest in this scenario?
it is simple, go and get a new business! :) if you don't want to have competition then leave!
The new business won't have competition?
EXACTLY!!! so you will have to deal with competitors, doesn't matter if it is stock, apples or monkeys! Why are you all trying to eliminate competitors? You could do that but they won't go away simple, so accept them, help or not, but respect at least!
I don't know but I like how this guy is thinking ....you are the only one that understands!Good for you....I don't know why everyone is so rude at my post.....for real now the basic idea of this post is this: "HOW MUCH DO YOU EARN PER MONTH?" I do not think that there is someone out there that didn't asked this question before!Because it's in your own interest to get motivated to do better!!!! But why should you answer a simple question when you can critique the basic laws of business(good luck with that by the way)I do not have anything with anybody you are all free to do business as you please....but don't make fun of my education or my way of doing business! I respect you (all of you) as a photographer and as a individual....Don't mess that up with a "competition debate"...Answer the simple question as nice as you can and that's all....I think that every one with apreciate a nice answer to a simple question
Regards
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Generally speaking, it's only the amateurs/part-timers who have the "encourage and increase competition" mindset. Trust me, luissantos84 and deyu16, your attitude will change once or if your earnings increase enough to become your sole source of income - you'll be playing your cards much closer to your chest when that happens.
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Generally speaking, it's only the amateurs/part-timers who have the "encourage and increase competition" mindset. Trust me, luissantos84 and deyu16, your attitude will change once or if your earnings increase enough to become your sole source of income - you'll be playing your cards much closer to your chest when that happens.
Ditto! ;)
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Generally speaking, it's only the amateurs/part-timers who have the "encourage and increase competition" mindset. Trust me, luissantos84 and deyu16, your attitude will change once or if your earnings increase enough to become your sole source of income - you'll be playing your cards much closer to your chest when that happens.
I respect what you are saying, I guess I won't act like that, instead I could use a language more similar to yours and show my opinion more gently without offending anyone like some have done here and other posts!
But again there will be always competition, what do you want?.. Agencies could be more strict ok, I agree on that, but if there are approving our pictures what is the problem?.. The problem is our, we shoot, we work, we upload then we sale... the problem isnt ours!
UPDATE: now I have 5 members ignoring me, god it is increasing, is there a bad list, like Gigli from Jennifer Lopez and Ben?...
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I think what deyu16 is trying to say is that if there was not competition....the product would not be as good. Like the apple stand for example...if you were the only vender...you could stick rotten apples in there as well as good ones if there is not competition. The other apple vender may have bought those rotten apples and decided he got tired of it and will sell better apples. The customer is going to go where the supply is better. Competition makes suppliers create better products which I will agree would be ""better for buyers"" unless you were one of those suppliers who strove to create the better product, therefore you would sell more because of this. It basically all boils down to reputation. There is competition in every business in one form or another.
Another one who understand ...thanks a lot ...but I might add that the same law applies to contributors to,not just for buyers!An example so you can understand better lets say there are 10 photographer submiting photos each submit 10 new photos per week ....and there are 300 000 buyers so basicly the competition is very very small and for the moment you belive that you will make a fortune doing photos ...but in real life it's completly different because when the cleints will buy all the images there is nothing to do....I belive that is a good balance now on contribuitors and picture buyers because everyone gets a piece of cake
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Another one who understand ...thanks a lot ...but I might add that the same law applies to contributors to,not just for buyers!An example so you can understand better lets say there are 10 photographer submiting photos each submit 10 new photos per week ....and there are 300 000 buyers so basicly the competition is very very small and for the moment you belive that you will make a fortune doing photos ...but in real life it's completly different because when the cleints will buy all the images there is nothing to do....I belive that is a good balance now on contribuitors and picture buyers because everyone gets a piece of cake
The cake slices are getting ever thinner for all but the top contributers. My downloads are plummeting, but I'm rising (slowly, but steadily) on iStockcharts, which proves that most others around me are plummeting even faster. Of course, some are shooting up past me, but the overall average of downloads per contributor is decreasing as there is only so much cake (so many buyers) to divvy up.
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Like the apple stand for example...if you were the only vender...you could stick rotten apples in there as well as good ones if there is not competition.
Great. What's your point?
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I think what deyu16 is trying to say is that if there was not competition....the product would not be as good. Like the apple stand for example...if you were the only vender...you could stick rotten apples in there as well as good ones if there is not competition.
And now we have such over-supply that apples go to waste just because they're not a standard shape or size; nothing to do with their edibility or taste.
In our local Lidl, they sell 8 apples for £1. I can't imagine how that's good for the grower.
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I think what deyu16 is trying to say is that if there was not competition....the product would not be as good. Like the apple stand for example...if you were the only vender...you could stick rotten apples in there as well as good ones if there is not competition.
And now we have such over-supply that apples go to waste just because they're not a standard shape or size; nothing to do with their edibility or taste.
In our local Lidl, they sell 8 apples for £1. I can't imagine how that's good for the grower.
I agree, too many photos, but the problem isn't on the contributors, but on the agencies, if they are accepting them right? So why messing around with new contributors, mess with the agencies! :P
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Corporate strategy 101: Porter's five forces , a good read:
http://www.quickmba.com/strategy/porter.shtml (http://www.quickmba.com/strategy/porter.shtml)
The goal is to minimize the 5 forces to maximize profit.
This is the industry based view of strategy but are others.....
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It basically all boils down to reputation. There is competition in every business in one form or another.
Like I said it boils down to reputation. If you have to many rotten apples then more than likely it is because you are overstocked because either 1) You aren't selling them because you are known to sell rotten apples and people just don't eat them anymore or 2) they are driving 100 or more miles to buy them from someone else...simply because of your reputation...therefore you have competition. If you already had a good reputation you wouldn't have the problem of people going somewhere else to begin with even if the apples were cheeper.
As for microstock...most quality buyers go to iStock...they have the better reputation and the better supply. The buyer pays more for the better quality and as many of you have always been said...iStock makes more photographers money than most other agencies on average, including myself. Now if you are losing sales it would be because better products are coming into the market and the buyers requirements for type and quality have changed.
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If I see one more apple metaphor, I'm going to go bananas. ???
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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If I see one more apple metaphor, I'm going to go bananas. ???
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Amen.
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If I see one more apple metaphor, I'm going to go bananas. ???
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
ehehe good one :)
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If I see one more apple metaphor, I'm going to go bananas.
::) :D
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There are two competing business models in play here - those who make money from creating and selling images, and those who make money selling advertising and referral links from blogging about it.
Both are legitimate ways to earn income and neither is necessarily morally superior to the other. However, for the blogging/referral folks to make money, they need to sign up as many people as possible to COMPETE with the image makers.
Surely it is not that hard to understand that the people whose LIVELIHOOD depends on selling images would be less than enthusiastic about encouraging or sharing information with the bloggers.
It has nothing to do with wanting to be helpful to newbies, BTW. I get sitemails from newbies often asking for tips on lighting, photoshop editing, etc. and have always tried to be helpful and encouraging. And I have seen other experienced people here do the same - including the ones in this thread.
It is one thing to help out a person who is really trying to learn, vs. providing blanket info to someone who is going to use that information to line their own pockets while simultaneously draining yours.
Like I said, nothing inherently wrong with making your money blogging about micro, just don't expect those that stand to lose out from your efforts to help you do it :)
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This will be an ongoing battle till the end of time. It’s not just microstock, its everything that has a value.
The simple rule at play here is Supply and Demand.
If supply increases faster than demand, the value of the supply decreases.
Who is at fault? Well, we all are. Photographers, microstock photographers, camera companies, stock agencies, ... That is why Unions were created, but that is always just a temporary measure.
What is the correct value? There is no answer to this. If people in the US can't make it cheap enough, maybe someone in another country can. The stock photography supply is growing much faster than demand has or even will. Again, whose fault is that? As long as a dime can be made, someone will sell it.
Here is an example not related to apples: When I was in school, Information Technology was on fire. I had employers begging me to take jobs. A friend and I opened a consulting company while in school for income. Rates were great. We could work just 10 hours a week to pay for school. This went on for a while, then the economy took a hit. Supply increased at a rate beyond demand. Companies had to reduce workforce further adding to the supply of talented I/T consultants. Rates dropped quickly to the point I stopped consulting. I thought if I can’t get $$$ dollars an hour it’s not worth it. The supply continued, and jobs were now lost to offshore staffing companies for pennies on the dollar. If we can’t work that cheap, someone can. Here we are today.
Ask yourself this. When you go to the store, do you buy the product made in your country for $$ more, or do you by the product made in another country for $$ less?
Now make that product stock photography and make yourself an image buyer.
We are at a point in stock photography where a company spends more money finding an image than buying it.
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There are two competing business models in play here - those who make money from creating and selling images, and those who make money selling advertising and referral links from blogging about it.
Both are legitimate ways to earn income and neither is necessarily morally superior to the other. However, for the blogging/referral folks to make money, they need to sign up as many people as possible to COMPETE with the image makers.
Surely it is not that hard to understand that the people whose LIVELIHOOD depends on selling images would be less than enthusiastic about encouraging or sharing information with the bloggers.
It has nothing to do with wanting to be helpful to newbies, BTW. I get sitemails from newbies often asking for tips on lighting, photoshop editing, etc. and have always tried to be helpful and encouraging. And I have seen other experienced people here do the same - including the ones in this thread.
It is one thing to help out a person who is really trying to learn, vs. providing blanket info to someone who is going to use that information to line their own pockets while simultaneously draining yours.
Like I said, nothing inherently wrong with making your money blogging about micro, just don't expect those that stand to lose out from your efforts to help you do it :)
quick question? are you talking about myself when saying making your money blogging?.. I will add again that I got 30$ from referrals, and I am at 1300$ in sales, around 1 year in stock!
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Like I said, nothing inherently wrong with making your money blogging about micro, just don't expect those that stand to lose out from your efforts to help you do it :)
Well those anonymous contributor referral hunters are quite spammy and annoying on a forum like this. It's a pyramid scheme anyways that requires always more and more contributors. The agents are to blame since contributor referring is useless now that everybody with a cam and his brother already signed up. The agents then could raise our commission with the money they waste otherwise on contributor referral hunters.
Another thing is buyer referrals, which is much more sustainable as a business model and isn't at the expense of the creator. What's more, those people would leave this site alone then and hang out at buyer's or designer forums. It's the kind of blog that Slocke has: a buyers guide.
You could even think about a viable business model just referring buyers, without being a photographer yourself, if you offer some added value to the buyer.
In the tens of millions of images online, it will cost more and more time/$$ for buyers to find the right image, so you can do their image scouting if you are familiar with the different search engines. Somebody posted here a while ago buyers at the moment spend more $$ on finding images than on buying them, because of the price collapse of images.
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There are two competing business models in play here - those who make money from creating and selling images, and those who make money selling advertising and referral links from blogging about it.
Both are legitimate ways to earn income and neither is necessarily morally superior to the other. However, for the blogging/referral folks to make money, they need to sign up as many people as possible to COMPETE with the image makers.
Surely it is not that hard to understand that the people whose LIVELIHOOD depends on selling images would be less than enthusiastic about encouraging or sharing information with the bloggers.
Funny, I was just trying to point this out to someone today...
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If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..
wish you all a great week!
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There are two competing business models in play here - those who make money from creating and selling images, and those who make money selling advertising and referral links from blogging about it.
Both are legitimate ways to earn income and neither is necessarily morally superior to the other. However, for the blogging/referral folks to make money, they need to sign up as many people as possible to COMPETE with the image makers.
Surely it is not that hard to understand that the people whose LIVELIHOOD depends on selling images would be less than enthusiastic about encouraging or sharing information with the bloggers.
It has nothing to do with wanting to be helpful to newbies, BTW. I get sitemails from newbies often asking for tips on lighting, photoshop editing, etc. and have always tried to be helpful and encouraging. And I have seen other experienced people here do the same - including the ones in this thread.
It is one thing to help out a person who is really trying to learn, vs. providing blanket info to someone who is going to use that information to line their own pockets while simultaneously draining yours.
Like I said, nothing inherently wrong with making your money blogging about micro, just don't expect those that stand to lose out from your efforts to help you do it :)
Of course not those evil blogs, but what about forums? It's not apples for sell in these banners. ;)
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The time of stock is really really really over by now. Yuri Arcurs is sitting near McDonald's with a styrofoam cup, begging for cents. Really. Better get out. Nothing to see here. Move on. Really. 8)
speak for yourself ;-) but the time to start new in microstock seems to be gone...wouldn't want to be starting from scratch now and as sharply_done said earlier, the more invested you become, and ironically the more your income grows, the closer you keep your cards to your chest. that's the way it works. I used to give my istock cards out to everyone, including lots of photographers. I wish I could take them all back. I only give them to potential clients now. who wants more competition...no thanks. rotten apples for sale btw...
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And here I was wondering where all the knockdown/drag out threads went. ;D I guess you just have to hit a powder keg issue.
Personally, I don't worry about competition that much. I know all the work it took to get to where I am, so if someone else wants to do that, then they deserve a little success. I can also see where people are coming from about too many contributors. Some keywords are so diluted with "me too" copycat garbage that new good images with those keywords may never get seen.
But, I think that is the nature of the beast with the micros. Everyone was invited to the party. You knew that when you came, so it's kind of hard to complain about them when you get there.
Unless of course they ask for your income, which they intend to use to increase their own income and draw in yet more competition to an already crowded and dwindling market.
Our income is really no ones business but our own. In polite society it is considered bad manners to ask a friend let alone someone you do not know well, how much money they make. Especially if you intend on utilizing that financial info to encourage someone else to work for a share of that income.
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If the poll is right...so far 14% (14 out of 101) are making over $2000.00 a month which is more then I expected. Despite Yuri's thread gloomy outlook, microstock still look healthy. Who knows, maybe his port are loosing to the smaller ones. Denis
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Despite Yuri's thread gloomy outlook, microstock still look healthy. Who knows, maybe his port are loosing to the smaller ones. Denis
Ofcourse it does. Buyers are still here. If Yuri loses sales, someone else gains them. This is pretty much the essence of economy. Also,(assuming the buying value stays the same) I think that if Yuri loses 1% of earnings that would translate into 100 young portfolios gaining 100% increase :).
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Let me explain to you as easy as I can.I study management of business and the first thing that I learned in my 1st year was that no business exist without competition.
OK, so I have the only shop selling apples in my town. I'm doing just fine, everyone loves apples and they come to me to buy them (they have no choice). I exist happily for years. Then the guy down the road, seeing how well I'm doing, decides he's going to sell apples. He either has to sell better ones for the same price or the same ones cheaper. Either way, I'm screwed.
The World Bank has shafted the Developing World this way for at least four decades - "Oh look, X country grows coffee/tea/cocoa/fruit, you have to do it to or we won't lend to you". All that happens is a surplus is produced and the worldwide price drops.
Ask for your money back on that course.
(Of course, if I introduce a friend who shoots totally different things than me to microstock, I'm not shooting myself in the foot. ;) )
Ok I see that you are thinking inside the box ...Lets see if I got this right...so you are the only one who sells apples right?That means that you can sell any apples you like it doesn't matter if the client likes them or not...You are the only one and the client has to buy from you...furthermore you can charge whatever you want for that apples ...for example let's say you got an apple for $1 and you sell it for $10(because you are the only one selling there no competition) so you make 10 times profit...ok all good but when the other guy decides to open his own store the picture has change...Now you have competition and you can't do what you like because you will go out of business! So you have 2 options 1)continue living in the box with no competition and go bankrupted OR struggle to have the freshest apples and with a good price....the I guarante you that the demand will be much bigger......Competition is good either way you look at it...if a new microstocker comes in and submiting the most eye catching images this world has ever seen what do you do?????Don't you try to perfect your self as much as you can? Don't get me wrong but thats business....you can't change anything...what ever you do there will always be competition ....and besides denying it you might as well look at the best part of competition
I would VOTE for you as new CEO of Getty and Istock - that way they'd grow better and faster!
Sure thing, if you ever get job there raise royalties for photographers at least to 50% ;-)
Good Luck!
P.S. Theory and reality are two completely different things!
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Despite Yuri's thread gloomy outlook, microstock still look healthy. Who knows, maybe his port are loosing to the smaller ones. Denis
Ofcourse it does. Buyers are still here. If Yuri loses sales, someone else gains them. This is pretty much the essence of economy. Also,(assuming the buying value stays the same) I think that if Yuri loses 1% of earnings that would translate into 100 young portfolios gaining 100% increase :).
From the looks of the Microstock Poll Results in the top right hand margin I would say that your scenario is unlikely. Sales seem to be down across the board for all sites in the Big 6, Up and Coming as well as the New Sites / Low Earners. Those numbers are likely to be from a much larger segment of participants.
Positive thinking has its place, however I found that when you skirt reality, it tends to bite you in the end.
If you want to take sales from Yuri, I would think that your content and quality would have to be superior and you would have to shoot enough volume to be noticed on a daily basis. Many "young portfolios" produce low volume Yuri knock offs, that do not approach his quality.
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The polls have several flaws including a small number of votes ; people, including me, vote relativity(top earning agency gets 10, 2nd gets 9, etc.. regardless of a drop or gain that doesn't effect the ladder) ; ratings don't reflect actual numbers(a 10 from a guy earning 100 a month is the same with a 10 earning 10000 a month).
You may be right about the general drop, however my first statement is still true: When someone loses, another one gains(it could be the agencies gaining though!).
Let's hope for the best.
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Despite the earnings rating poll being all down, several BMEs and 2nd BMEs have been reported at SS and within this forum which put in doubt the accuracy of the poll rating. Denis
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The polls have several flaws including a small number of votes ; people, including me, vote relativity(top earning agency gets 10, 2nd gets 9, etc.. regardless of a drop or gain that doesn't effect the ladder) ; ratings don't reflect actual numbers(a 10 from a guy earning 100 a month is the same with a 10 earning 10000 a month).
You may be right about the general drop, however my first statement is still true: When someone loses, another one gains(it could be the agencies gaining though!).
Let's hope for the best.
If we were not in a global recession I would be more willing to agree with you. However all of the graphic designers I know are telling me their clients are cutting back substantially, so they do not need as many images or vectors. Two of my friends have lost most of their long term clients over the last year. Just take a look at the unemployment figures and the condition of businesses in general. The empty business buildings across the globe do not inspire confidence that things will pick up anytime soon.
At what point will image volume outpace image demand permanently? Some think it happened long ago, lets hope they are wrong.
Only the agencies could give us a real snap shot of sales volume. Most of the high quality, high volume shooters I know are reporting reduced sales and I tend to think that they are more representative of the big picture.
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Despite the earnings rating poll being all down, several BMEs and 2nd BMEs have been reported at SS and within this forum which put in doubt the accuracy of the poll rating. Denis
;) Is Fifi driving any of these BME's. It is wise to consider who is reporting these sales figures, the recently stated RPI is dismal at best and there is no where to go but up. A 0.071 RPI may satisfy and inspire some.
There are of course shooters who will produce niche images that drive real sales volume no matter what the market conditions are. However they are not representative of the whole.
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The supply continued, and jobs were now lost to offshore staffing companies for pennies on the dollar. If we can’t work that cheap, someone can. Here we are today.
Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
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Despite the earnings rating poll being all down, several BMEs and 2nd BMEs have been reported at SS and within this forum which put in doubt the accuracy of the poll rating. Denis
;) Is Fifi driving any of these BME's. It is wise to consider who is reporting these sales figures, the recently stated RPI is dismal at best and there is no where to go but up. A 0.071 RPI may satisfy and inspire some.
There are of course shooters who will produce niche images that drive real sales volume no matter what the market conditions are. However they are not representative of the whole.
No not just Fifi...I compted 11 reported BMEs and 2nd BMEs at SS. Two reported BMEs in this forum. I had my 2nd BME last month. Most of them are not niche. My RPI is $1.60
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Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
True but are the indians, chinese etc. to blame? Or the governments who promoted consumerism to the level it is today?
I definitely wouldn't blame the people that can keep their costs low.
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Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
True but are the indians, chinese etc. to blame? Or the governments who promoted consumerism to the level it is today?
I definitely wouldn't blame the people that can keep their costs low.
it's just a matter of production costs : in these countries you can live fairly well with 300$/month.
all they need is a 500$ Canon Rebel and they can make a few thousand microstock
images and make a decent salary.
and written and spoken english by indians and philipinos is more than enough for keywording
as far as i've seen.
first they start with providing outsourced keywording and uploading, then they'll proceed
making the photos as well.
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Yeah I know, my point is that they're not to blame that the people can make a good living with lower costs.
Luckily(or not) I live in a country where costs are lower(not 300$ a month low, but lower than western countries like the UK, Germany, etc.)
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P.S. Theory and reality are two completely different things!
In this case even theory is wrong: asserting that competition is the best model is pure non-sense. In fact, there is no big company in the world which willingly runs its production in a competitive manner, by, for example, having two departments producing the same goods and then choosing the best one. Because it's horribly unproductive.
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Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
Out of interest does anybody know how these folk are getting their images onto the sites, for the past three years the scaremongers have been shouting 'look out the Chinese are coming' I'm just wondering in they're doing a sponsored walk or something on their way to hand deliver their images to iS and SS HQ.
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Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
Out of interest does anybody know how these folk are getting their images onto the sites, for the past three years the scaremongers have been shouting 'look out the Chinese are coming' I'm just wondering in they're doing a sponsored walk or something on their way to hand deliver their images to iS and SS HQ.
china is a different beast.
for starters it's not easy to receive foreign payments with chinese banks like ICBC and BoC.
when i was living there i kept my european bank account and opened up also a HSBC one in HongKong
otherwise it can take weeks or month to receive money from overseas.
secondly, i've never met a single chinese photographer aware of the stock industry.
said that, indians and philipinos are well aware of stock, speak good enough english,
and have decent internet connectivity.
i'm afraid it's only a matter of time before the indians enter microstock by the front door.
they're already active in any possible outsourcing and IT/ICT services, as well as
data mining, keywording, spamming, scamming, blog farms, MFAs, fishing, affiliate marketing,
etc
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If the poll is right...so far 14% (14 out of 101) are making over $2000.00 a month which is more then I expected. Despite Yuri's thread gloomy outlook, microstock still look healthy. Who knows, maybe his port are loosing to the smaller ones. Denis
Yes, but the poll only asks what you're making now. It's not so healthy if those making $2000 a month used to make $4000.
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I'm sure the drop in Yuri's income is from the lowering of commissions by the stock agencies as well as this economy, but has anyone ever ask rather these drops could be because of market changes? Probably 99% of his port is studio shots. It could be possible that buyers are changing to more traditional photography. The market is flooded with studio shots...people shots...and it is possible the market is changing.
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I'm sure the drop in Yuri's income is from the lowering of commissions by the stock agencies as well as this economy, but has anyone ever ask rather these drops could be because of market changes? Probably 99% of his port is studio shots. It could be possible that buyers are changing to more traditional photography. The market is flooded with studio shots...people shots...and it is possible the market is changing.
What agencies are lowering commissions? 99% of his port is not studio shots. What is "more traditional photography"?
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I'm sure the drop in Yuri's income is from the lowering of commissions by the stock agencies as well as this economy, but has anyone ever ask rather these drops could be because of market changes? Probably 99% of his port is studio shots. It could be possible that buyers are changing to more traditional photography. The market is flooded with studio shots...people shots...and it is possible the market is changing.
What agencies are lowering commissions? 99% of his port is not studio shots. What is "more traditional photography"?
Sites are going to subs which in turn is lowering commissions...Look at Fotolia for example..I said 99% of his port is PROBABLY studio shots. Look how many studios he has. Look at the first 5 pages of his port on iStock...they are all studio/people shots outside of 1. I'm not going to dig through his port of 5000 images to get an exact figure...anyway when I refer to traditional photography...I'm referring to non studio shots.
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99% of his port is not studio shots.
He has this huge big aeroplane hangar set up with loads of studio sets, reminds me a bit of ikea, though he has other than domestic studio sets. I don't believe that he only does 1% of his shots in there. If so, no wonder he isn't making a profit.
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Maybe 60% is more accurate...I really don't know, but the majority of his big money makers have been studio shots.
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Maybe 60% is more accurate...I really don't know, but the majority of his big money makers have been studio shots.
Did he tell you that?
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Maybe 60% is more accurate...I really don't know, but the majority of his big money makers have been studio shots.
Did he tell you that?
I wish... :D When you look at his port on iStock his best "flamed" sellers are studio shots..
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If the poll is right...so far 14% (14 out of 101) are making over $2000.00 a month which is more then I expected. Despite Yuri's thread gloomy outlook, microstock still look healthy. Who knows, maybe his port are loosing to the smaller ones. Denis
Yes, but the poll only asks what you're making now. It's not so healthy if those making $2000 a month used to make $4000.
and by the way, they could easily spend 1999$ in order to make 2000$.
it's like Yuri saying he makes 1 million/year but then admitting he's wasting more than 900K
in production costs.
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Like I said, nothing inherently wrong with making your money blogging about micro, just don't expect those that stand to lose out from your efforts to help you do it :)
Well those anonymous contributor referral hunters are quite spammy and annoying on a forum like this.
I totally agree. Anyone trolling for referrals here has come to the wrong place. Those hanging out on this board already know about micro, and most are not naive enough to click on referral links from someone spamming up the site.
Personally, if I want to add another site I will privately sitemail someone I know and respect and get their link. The rare times I have used referral links I would like to throw some extra $ to someone who actually adds value to this site and the industry in general.
And no, Luis, I was not singling you out. It should be obvious that I was trying to address the phenomenon as a whole without getting personal toward any one individual. Please don't look for insults where none were intended :)
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What agencies are lowering commissions? 99% of his port is not studio shots. What is "more traditional photography"?
In addition to more buyers moving from PPD to subs, as mentioned, Fotolia lowered commission % and also doubled cannister level targets. DT lowered commission %. IS lowered prices on the larger sizes for independents, which results in a lower royalty, and Getty changed sub royalties for independents from .30 to .25.
Alamy (thought not a micor), where lots of independents have RF, also lowered commission %.
It's been a tough year for independents. Bad enough to have to deal with market saturation and image collection dilution, but to also have royalties slashed at so many sites makes it unsurprising that so many are seeing their incomes stagnate or decline.
Put me in the stagnant category. Despite adding 20% to my portfolio my income is in exactly where it was a year ago, and in sharp decline from where it was in Sept - Nov 09.
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Put me in the stagnant category. Despite adding 20% to my portfolio my income is in exactly where it was a year ago, and in sharp decline from where it was in Sept - Nov 09.
but what did you expected ? we "macrosaurs" are saying this since the days of RF and photodiscs.
and if you think this is the end or the bottom race wait 1-2 years when IS and SS will have 20 or 30
million images and nobody will make serious money anymore along with new cheaper subscription
models and who knows what they have in store.
the market decided photography is worth nothing, we must accept this and go forward.
RM is still paying the bills for me, because i don't shoot anything buyers can find on micros
nor i sell RF apart this new experiment with IS that so far looks promising.
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I welcome all users to answer this poll.I know that most of you consider that all depends on talent,equipment,time spent,etc etc...But all of you know that it's all about the money!So please be honest and let's see the real statistics about this business.Thanks a lot
PS it would be nice to have a more accurate pool if people can say I earn exactly $ xx.xx from $x agencies with xxxx images online.
I'll go first...
Shutterstock: $103 with 795 images online
Dreamstime:$21 with 325 images online
Fotolia: $36 with 557 images online
IstockPhoto: $14 with 103 images online
123RF: $9 with 556 images online
Total: $183
Did they teach you in that cheap wannabe marketing course about 2 or 3 forbidden life questions???
1. Whats you monthly income?
2. How often you have sex with youre girl/wife?
3. I dont remember the third one (maybe to ask girl about weight, or for what you vote) but as I see you came here like yesterday born doodle drawn person and ask that???
If you want to find it read posts between lines if you have some active gray matter in you brain Grrrrr ...
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@Sharply Done,
no. I will never let money take over my life.
No matter the amount.
I will not let the fear of competition and losing sales stand in my way of helping people.
I feel good about it, it's in my nature, and I will always do it.
But it gets even worse.
Not only I want to help newbies, but I'm constantly pestering my friends and collegues to join microstock. I'm irritating everyone around me and I keep at it.
No, I have no referral links, I never will.
I think the fear of the newbie/ competiton is absurd. A futile waste of energy and a lost fight.
@Louis Santos,
do whatever you want with your blog and referrals. Get as many as you can for all I care, good luck to you!
But I have a favour to ask you :)
Take ThinkStock/Photos.com off your list.
It's not the bewildered newbie and his Canon Rebel who's a danger to this industry. It's the 0.25 cent from Getty.
Unfortunately there are a lot of experienced photographers who actively upload there. Not much I can do about it.
The time has come to fall in love with IStock's upload limits.
My only hope.
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There's a pretty clear dividing line here. Those that make a significant part of their living out of this see the diminishing returns and bad treatment from agencies due to oversupply and realise their ability to feed themselves and their families is impaired by it.
Most of the people that are pro getting everyone onto the sinking ship seem to have the speedos barely ticking over under their names making me think they are probably the hobbyists. That or they just want to make a quick couple of bucks through referrals.
When your income depends on other people's success, through referrals or when it's a hobby or just a way to get a bit of extra cash doing what you enjoy it's far easier to be everyone's friend. I can fully understand it, I maybe would have been the same when this was just fun and games for me. If you take this seriously as a business and if you are ever lucky enough to do this for a job then you will think differently, believe me. It's just a shame that your actions now are decreasing your chances of ever being able to do that.
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I see the sky is falling again this morning. Look if the industry can be destroyed by some referral links and hobbyists with cameras, then it probably will be destroyed no matter what you do. I personally think it's a bit more stable than that.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
the real problem is always the same : the buyers have less money than before and many
are going bankrupt and closing down.
the pie is getting smaller and smaller while production costs are not getting cheaper.
amateurs and hobbysts should be booted out from serious agencies.
agencies should enforce harder prerequisites to join the market, let's say
providing a starting batch of 500 saleable images for instance.
this alone would filter out all the crap getting in and leave space
for serious shooters.
after all many RM agencies do the same, i could list LonelyPlanetImages,
AGE Fotostock, Masterfile ...
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
the real problem is always the same : the buyers have less money than before and many
are going bankrupt and closing down.
the pie is getting smaller and smaller while production costs are not getting cheaper.
amateurs and hobbysts should be booted out from serious agencies.
agencies should enforce harder prerequisites to join the market, let's say
providing a starting batch of 500 saleable images for instance.
this alone would filter out all the crap getting in and leave space
for serious shooters.
after all many RM agencies do the same, i could list LonelyPlanetImages,
AGE Fotostock, Masterfile ...
The problem is that this is exactly the opposite of the business model agencies are now moving towards. Shutterstock showed them the way and it involves as many contributors as possible with the agencies maximising their profits at the contributors expense. Don't forget that under the subs model the more you make the less the agency does. They don't need a few decent photographers, they want loads of mediocre ones. The more discerning can cherry pick the best few photos from each contributor's largely poor portfolio and still have enough images on their sites. The volume merchants like SS can just take everything. It means that no single contributor has any power at all over the agencies, nobody's opinion counts.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
Tell me how all that helps the oversupply issue.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
Tell me how all that helps the oversupply issue.
Of course all the referral links and blogs are helping kill, if not the market, then the profitability of working ion this industry.
How do you think exponential growth of supply is being fuelled? New suppliers aren't randomly stumbling onto the agencies!
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Good points! :)
@Sharply Done,
no. I will never let money take over my life.
No matter the amount.
I will not let the fear of competition and losing sales stand in my way of helping people.
I feel good about it, it's in my nature, and I will always do it.
But it gets even worse.
Not only I want to help newbies, but I'm constantly pestering my friends and collegues to join microstock. I'm irritating everyone around me and I keep at it.
No, I have no referral links, I never will.
I think the fear of the newbie/ competiton is absurd. A futile waste of energy and a lost fight.
@Louis Santos,
do whatever you want with your blog and referrals. Get as many as you can for all I care, good luck to you!
But I have a favour to ask you :)
Take ThinkStock/Photos.com off your list.
It's not the bewildered newbie and his Canon Rebel who's a danger to this industry. It's the 0.25 cent from Getty.
Unfortunately there are a lot of experienced photographers who actively upload there. Not much I can do about it.
The time has come to fall in love with IStock's upload limits.
My only hope.
-
Don't worry, the same will happen with microstock : fresh indian, chinese, vietnamese, philipinos willing
to shoot for peanuts and flooding the market.
Out of interest does anybody know how these folk are getting their images onto the sites, for the past three years the scaremongers have been shouting 'look out the Chinese are coming' I'm just wondering in they're doing a sponsored walk or something on their way to hand deliver their images to iS and SS HQ.
I do know more than a few chinese, indian, etc micros stock photographers. They post on the micro boards. If you belong to facebook you will find they are active on the net and are friending other microstock photographers. Areas of india should have larger bandwidth than most of us do and many are highly educated so keywording is a non issue.
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New suppliers aren't randomly stumbling onto the agencies!
Nope. They are carefully targeted with banner ads, google image searches, magazine ads and more. I assume that ads for buyers bring in contributors and referral links for contributors bring in buyers too. Some of them are the same people too. I've bought plenty of images for clients and none of them were my own. So some buyers may be sneaking in with those pesky referral links.
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supply and demand are just not going in par.
too many images, and always the same buyers.
SS has 10 million pics now, but have they doubled or tripled their customers ?
i don't think so.
in 2012 SS will have 20 million pics.
who will survive ?
there must be a point where the agency stop submissions and
only accept the very best.
after all they're already refusing sunsets, dogs, and holiday snaps
for the same reason.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
the real problem is always the same : the buyers have less money than before and many
are going bankrupt and closing down.
the pie is getting smaller and smaller while production costs are not getting cheaper.
amateurs and hobbysts should be booted out from serious agencies.
agencies should enforce harder prerequisites to join the market, let's say
providing a starting batch of 500 saleable images for instance.
this alone would filter out all the crap getting in and leave space
for serious shooters.
after all many RM agencies do the same, i could list LonelyPlanetImages,
AGE Fotostock, Masterfile ...
The problem is that this is exactly the opposite of the business model agencies are now moving towards. Shutterstock showed them the way and it involves as many contributors as possible with the agencies maximising their profits at the contributors expense. Don't forget that under the subs model the more you make the less the agency does. They don't need a few decent photographers, they want loads of mediocre ones. The more discerning can cherry pick the best few photos from each contributor's largely poor portfolio and still have enough images on their sites. The volume merchants like SS can just take everything. It means that no single contributor has any power at all over the agencies, nobody's opinion counts.
It's not that microstock is "moving towards" that model, it IS that model. That is my point. Microstock was started on the basis that everyone with a photo can contribute. Quality requirements have increased, but the model is the same. Agencies can care less about your images being lost in the search; as long as they still sell SOMEONE'S image they will get paid.
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
Tell me how all that helps the oversupply issue.
Well, true. I can't say it helps, but I can say I send as many or more buyers as I do "real" sellers (people who actually get approved and have images for sale) from my sites. BUT, if my site did not send them there another site/ad/agency/forum/wiki.... would. Do a search on Google and see what ads you get. Marketing can be a double edged sword for us, but its nothing but gold for the agencies. The agencies are still recruiting.
My site MicrostockPhotography.com gets thousands of hits a month from just the keyword phrase "microstock photography" alone. I have a feeling, and this could just be me, but people searching for "microstock photography" already have an idea what they are looking for. If they did not buy or sell using my link, they would from someone.
The problem is not who is joining, from what country they come from, or where they find their information.
The problem is the crowd-sourcing model itself and the fact that the agencies have ALL of the control. There are more people with cameras then there will ever be buyers for. The model itself is to blame and we all joined in to help promote it.
If someone really wants to help, start a thread on "How can we fix our ever growing and out of control Microstock model?".
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Does everyone really think it’s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market? I mean really, come on.
It’s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.
I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.
Tell me how all that helps the oversupply issue.
Of course all the referral links and blogs are helping kill, if not the market, then the profitability of working ion this industry.
How do you think exponential growth of supply is being fuelled? New suppliers aren't randomly stumbling onto the agencies!
I knew about stock well before microstock showed up. I found iStock as an image buyer back when they gave images away. You never really "randomly" stumble into agencies, that's called marketing.
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I wouldn't for one minute think it's possible to now stem the tide, the endless numbers of uploads is bound to continue unabated.
What I'm saying is that people who refer masses of newbies are partly causing the oversupply and that the oversupply is nothing but a bad thing for those already working in the industry. That's just a fact.
That someone else would do it if you weren't is also almost certainly true, though I am not sure what the relevance of it is. You could argue that about a lot of things, but I'm not sure that should have a bearing on whether you do them.
I would also say that the amount of work required to make a profit at this from a standing start is now far too great, so referring new members isn't doing them any favours either. All it's doing is hurting existing contributors, giving the agencies more power, oh and putting a few bucks in your pocket.
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Microbius, everything you have said in this thread makes complete sense and is eloquently stated so that anyone making the slightest effort to understand could do so.
Unfortunately there are just too many people who don't care and aren't listening.
At this point my father-in-law's favorite saying comes to mind. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. You just waste your time and annoy the pig."
(And in case it isn't obvious, I am NOT calling anyone here a pig. It is a metaphor for what this thread has devolved into. ::) )
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Well, everyone has their opinion. My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem. I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography. The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.
How many people in this thread came into microstock starting off with a large portfolio of stock images? How many of us where already full time photographers? How many of us here were searching through Google to get started?
With every one of your photos sold, you are hurting someone sales. Who is going to be the first to delete all of their images to help their neighbor's sales? No one? Really? But the newbies need to stop. I see.
With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise. I would guess this forum pulls in much more than even some of the larger microstock portfolios. Hmmm. The newbies have been feeling threatened lately. Maybe there is now a market for a "newbie" microstock forum. I send everyone here, but maybe this is not the place.
Five years ago macro shooters were the victims and the people who are "making a living" now shooting microstock was the problem. Now microstockers "making a living" are the victims and newbies or referral links are the problem. Five years from now free images will be the problem because there will not be anyone (or much less) "making a living" from microstock. And why, because everyone else is the problem.
Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
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Thanks Lisa, I thought I'd lapsed into another language.
I am not feeling sorry for myself or pointing the finger, I'm not sure why things are getting so defensive. I am not trying to say that referral links are the only problem or even the main cause of it. Just trying to say that they are certainly part of it or a symptom of it. I'm not sure if this is being denied or not. If so I can’t really identify or guess what the argument is. There just seems to be a lot of defensive finger pointing.
Here’s another saying, “If your part of the problem then you are (ahem… well…) part of the problem”
This is just going in circles, or more accurately into a brick wall. I’ll stop posting, I think I have made my point, take it or leave it.
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Well, everyone has their opinion. My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem. I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography. The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.
For the nth time, actively trying to encourage and enlist your competition is madness. Sure, people may find their way, but if you're going to give away free maps and a tank of gas, then you _are_ the problem.
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Well, everyone has their opinion. My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem. I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography. The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.
How many people in this thread came into microstock starting off with a large portfolio of stock images? How many of us where already full time photographers? How many of us here were searching through Google to get started?
With every one of your photos sold, you are hurting someone sales. Who is going to be the first to delete all of their images to help their neighbor's sales? No one? Really? But the newbies need to stop. I see.
With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise. I would guess this forum pulls in much more than even some of the larger microstock portfolios. Hmmm. The newbies have been feeling threatened lately. Maybe there is now a market for a "newbie" microstock forum. I send everyone here, but maybe this is not the place.
Five years ago macro shooters were the victims and the people who are "making a living" now shooting microstock was the problem. Now microstockers "making a living" are the victims and newbies or referral links are the problem. Five years from now free images will be the problem because there will not be anyone (or much less) "making a living" from microstock. And why, because everyone else is the problem.
Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
For what it's worth Brandon...I agree with you 100%
And I truly respect you for speaking out even if other don't.
Thank You
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Well, everyone has their opinion. My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem. I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography. The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.
How many people in this thread came into microstock starting off with a large portfolio of stock images? How many of us where already full time photographers? How many of us here were searching through Google to get started?
With every one of your photos sold, you are hurting someone sales. Who is going to be the first to delete all of their images to help their neighbor's sales? No one? Really? But the newbies need to stop. I see.
With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise. I would guess this forum pulls in much more than even some of the larger microstock portfolios. Hmmm. The newbies have been feeling threatened lately. Maybe there is now a market for a "newbie" microstock forum. I send everyone here, but maybe this is not the place.
Five years ago macro shooters were the victims and the people who are "making a living" now shooting microstock was the problem. Now microstockers "making a living" are the victims and newbies or referral links are the problem. Five years from now free images will be the problem because there will not be anyone (or much less) "making a living" from microstock. And why, because everyone else is the problem.
Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
For what it's worth Brandon...I agree with you 100%
And I truly respect you for speaking out even if other don't.
Thank You
make it 3!
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Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
I wonder why _you've_ heard it ... ;)
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For the nth time, actively trying to encourage and enlist your competition is madness. Sure, people may find their way, but if you're going to give away free maps and a tank of gas, then you _are_ the problem.
It would seem that in microstock;
"Those who can do; those who can't ... blog about it and grovel for referral links"
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yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?
will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?
because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.
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Ok, I give up.
Fingers pointed: Newbies increasing supply; Helping newbies; blogs about microstock; referral links
Points addressed: Newbies are not the problem, the microstock crowd-sourcing model is; blogs/forums/ads market what the agencies are paying for, why are they the bad guys; you hate referral links yet you post all day on a site and increase its traffic that makes its income from referral links
I guess people are only part of a problem if they think they are part of the problem, until then its everyone else that is the problem.
Where are all the people "making a living" from microstock when Fotolia cut percentages? Or moved levels? Or when Dreamstime cut percentages? Or when all the subs were introduced? Or any of the other recent or past issues?
My finger pointing: If you think a growing supply is a problem (I can assure you the agencies do not), then the model is to blame. The very reason microstock was started was to do exactly what you all are complaining about. Every single person selling in this model (including me) is to blame. Every person referring buyers and sellers to this model is to blame (including me).
Solutions? Maybe agencies should shut the doors to newbies? Maybe upload limits need to be closed more? Maybe you should have at least 5000 images to get in? Hmmm, but then that would not be microstock as we know it then would it?
Referrals? Agencies buy more than images and video. They also buy traffic. Its pretty bold of someone to say they can sell their images but site owners cannot sell their traffic. It’s even bolder of them to actively participate on a site that does exactly that.
The fact is that referrals and newbies do increase supply. Of course they do. So do cheap DSLRs, Macro Photographers having to leave their model because micro has taken over, the internet, global economy, the world wide recession, your images, my images, that guy down the street's grandma's images...... come on! Why beat the crowd with a club when you can work on fixing the gate?
I got starting on this because I am tired of seeing newbies bashed and blogs/forums blamed for the microstock industry's problems. But it’s ok, I am done wasting my breath. Maybe I will just provide a solution for the newbies.
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Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
I wonder why _you've_ heard it ... ;)
Haha, thanks. I was waiting for someone to catch me on that. Glad it was you.
I have had many solutions, but not many of you all "making a living" have cared to join in.
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yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?
will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?
because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.
can I say that you are 50% agree?.. it maybe be tough (not that much I guess), but is it possible of course a lot of work, but IT IS!
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yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?
will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?
because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.
can I say that you are 50% agree?.. it maybe be tough (not that much I guess), but is it possible of course a lot of work, but IT IS!
of course anything is possible, but than even applying for Getty straight away instead of wasting time with IS and SS.
i mean, considering the effort needed and the falling sales in micros is there really a good reason to join a micro nowadays
if you're a newbie with a small portfolio ?
in my opinion newbies should be banned from IS and SS, and left to the third rate agencies.
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With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise.
Not all of us!
FTR I don't despise referral links, I despise the people who's aim it is to make money from others rather than do the hard work themselves, and I don't post links here because a. I can't see the point if someone's reading my post here there's a pretty good chance they've already looked at the sites and therefore had their cookies (or whatever the technical term is) logged by that site and b) I don't want to encourage copycats.
I have referral links on my website but that's aimed at the buyers.
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Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
I wonder why _you've_ heard it ... ;)
Haha, thanks. I was waiting for someone to catch me on that. Glad it was you.I have had many solutions, but not many of you all "making a living" have cared to join in.
Hey were you two separated at birth?
(http://www.istockphoto.com/generic_image_view/53005/53005)(http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1700;type=avatar)
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yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?
will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?
because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.
can I say that you are 50% agree?.. it maybe be tough (not that much I guess), but is it possible of course a lot of work, but IT IS!
of course anything is possible, but than even applying for Getty straight away instead of wasting time with IS and SS.
i mean, considering the effort needed and the falling sales in micros is there really a good reason to join a micro nowadays
if you're a newbie with a small portfolio ?
in my opinion newbies should be banned from IS and SS, and left to the third rate agencies.
can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
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LOL! If the people who keep threatening to leave the discussion actually did so this thread would be a lot shorter ;)
If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..
wish you all a great week!
Ok, I give up.
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LOL! If the people who keep threatening to leave the discussion actually did so this thread would be a lot shorter ;)
If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..
wish you all a great week!
Ok, I give up.
I missed YOU! :)
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Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
I wonder why _you've_ heard it ... ;)
Haha, thanks. I was waiting for someone to catch me on that. Glad it was you.I have had many solutions, but not many of you all "making a living" have cared to join in.
Hey were you two separated at birth?
([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/generic_image_view/53005/53005[/url])([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1700;type=avatar[/url])
Hahaha. I think there is a decent age gap there. (no offense to Sean)
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LOL! If the people who keep threatening to leave the discussion actually did so this thread would be a lot shorter ;)
If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..
wish you all a great week!
Ok, I give up.
I didn't say I was going to leave; I said I give up.
I am simply going to stop kicking the dead horse that some seem to blame on everyone else. My "solution" is already under development.
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I just want to add that Macs are better than PCs... wait what was this thread about?
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I just want to add that Macs are better than PCs... wait what was this thread about?
Are they? I am a PC guy!
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Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
I wonder why _you've_ heard it ... ;)
Haha, thanks. I was waiting for someone to catch me on that. Glad it was you.I have had many solutions, but not many of you all "making a living" have cared to join in.
Hey were you two separated at birth?
([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/generic_image_view/53005/53005[/url])([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1700;type=avatar[/url])
Wow I missed that one. Much better than the actual thread. :o
Supply and demand, easy. But two SJLs or Brandons, that's it, I'm out of here.
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There's a pretty clear dividing line here. Those that make a significant part of their living out of this see the diminishing returns and bad treatment from agencies due to oversupply and realise their ability to feed themselves and their families is impaired by it.
Most of the people that are pro getting everyone onto the sinking ship seem to have the speedos barely ticking over under their names making me think they are probably the hobbyists. That or they just want to make a quick couple of bucks through referrals.
When your income depends on other people's success, through referrals or when it's a hobby or just a way to get a bit of extra cash doing what you enjoy it's far easier to be everyone's friend. I can fully understand it, I maybe would have been the same when this was just fun and games for me. If you take this seriously as a business and if you are ever lucky enough to do this for a job then you will think differently, believe me. It's just a shame that your actions now are decreasing your chances of ever being able to do that.
that sums it up for me...exactly...I started in microstock close to five years ago (and even that was almost missing the boat) with a naive, rose-coloured mentality. a couple of people set me straight early on, and not nicely either, but I'm glad they did. when I started it was with the intention of doing this seriously though, never as a hobby. frankly I wish hobbyists would just leave the bigger decisions to those of us doing this for a living. a bit harsh maybe, but it is what I think sometimes.
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
Pretty good, indeed. Should be made sticky to this forum ;D
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
Pretty true, but for "They celebrate every single sale they make". Like any drug you do need more and more. I mean, I need at least 3-4 a day to get me off!
And you my friend, no link to portflio . . . .?
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can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
anyone with less than 1000 saleable images.
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
hahaha
excellent !
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Ok, I give up.
Fingers pointed: Newbies increasing supply; Helping newbies; blogs about microstock; referral links
Points addressed: Newbies are not the problem, the microstock crowd-sourcing model is; blogs/forums/ads market what the agencies are paying for, why are they the bad guys; you hate referral links yet you post all day on a site and increase its traffic that makes its income from referral links
I guess people are only part of a problem if they think they are part of the problem, until then its everyone else that is the problem.
Where are all the people "making a living" from microstock when Fotolia cut percentages? Or moved levels? Or when Dreamstime cut percentages? Or when all the subs were introduced? Or any of the other recent or past issues?
My finger pointing: If you think a growing supply is a problem (I can assure you the agencies do not), then the model is to blame. The very reason microstock was started was to do exactly what you all are complaining about. Every single person selling in this model (including me) is to blame. Every person referring buyers and sellers to this model is to blame (including me).
Solutions? Maybe agencies should shut the doors to newbies? Maybe upload limits need to be closed more? Maybe you should have at least 5000 images to get in? Hmmm, but then that would not be microstock as we know it then would it?
Referrals? Agencies buy more than images and video. They also buy traffic. Its pretty bold of someone to say they can sell their images but site owners cannot sell their traffic. It’s even bolder of them to actively participate on a site that does exactly that.
The fact is that referrals and newbies do increase supply. Of course they do. So do cheap DSLRs, Macro Photographers having to leave their model because micro has taken over, the internet, global economy, the world wide recession, your images, my images, that guy down the street's grandma's images...... come on! Why beat the crowd with a club when you can work on fixing the gate?
I got starting on this because I am tired of seeing newbies bashed and blogs/forums blamed for the microstock industry's problems. But it’s ok, I am done wasting my breath. Maybe I will just provide a solution for the newbies.
Here is another perspective. I do not have a problem helping new submitters. However I do have a problem helping and watching long standing submitters take advantage of and utilize the vulnerabilities, inexperience and naivete of new submitters for their own financial gain. The fact that the process "sometimes" harms the newcomers as well as long time submitters makes ignoring the situation hard to swallow.
If we do not discuss industry challenges, how can we as a group take steps to become part of the solution by promoting a culture of ethical accountability?
We can build an ethical micostock culture by improving our own overall personal performance and passing on that professional expertise to others in our field who we see are also putting in the effort it takes to succeed in this business. That culture would enable an environment of sustainable development for all of us.
If we ignore those who with open eyes are willing to base their business plans on exploiting the vulnerabilities of the industry as well as exploiting the newest inexperience individuals entering into it, knowing full well that they will be harming the industry as a whole, we have only ourselves to blame as the situation continues to deteriorate.
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i disagree.
there's plenty of photo forums where the newbies can found hints about shooting better photos, selling photos, agencies, etc and finallt there's Flickr.
it's just too easy for newbie microstockers to get a foot in the door, to have critiques on their photos, to spy on other users' sales and views, to find any sort of help in forums and blogs.
the good thing about RM is that there's almost no help whatsover and to make a single sale it takes a long time and lots of images just to start.
this way there are no newbies around and the few ones who get in are dismayed by seeing no sales and then move to microstock.
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
I guess I am almost a no-newbie..! Left on 40$ on SS!
Then will you start talking with me properly??..
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can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
anyone with less than 1000 saleable images.
have you started RM with 1000 saleable images? microstock is just like photography, learning everyday and trying to make better photos etc.. so what is the problem of being a newbie? like I have always read from pros, is they saying that are building up a good and saleable portfolio!..
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
Pretty true, but for "They celebrate every single sale they make". Like any drug you do need more and more. I mean, I need at least 3-4 a day to get me off!
And you my friend, no link to portflio . . . .?
nice question btw!
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can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
anyone with less than 1000 saleable images.
have you started RM with 1000 saleable images? microstock is just like photography, learning everyday and trying to make better photos etc.. so what is the problem of being a newbie? like I have always read from pros, is they saying that are building up a good and saleable portfolio!..
yes, i started with 500 images, as it was the norm years ago
and frankly i don't think it's so hard to make 500 good images if
you want to be a pro.
i can do it in few dats, while for a newbie it could take 1 year... to each his own.
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I think someone in this thread asked for a definition of "newbie".
Here are some characteristic to recognize a "newbie":
1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They get angry when they read something they don't like.
:)
I guess I am almost a no-newbie..! Left on 40$ on SS!
Then will you start talking with me properly??..
$40 to go. Good for you. I guess you are preparing a press release and a big party. Though I don't think you will invite me. ::)
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so what is the problem of being a newbie? like I have always read from pros, is they saying that are building up a good and saleable portfolio!..
the problem with newbies is that they should stick to Flickr instead of polluting the pro's market
with their tiny portfolios.
pros and competition is more than welcome, but we should close the door to the horde of
1000s of newbies with 30-40 photos each.
and about learning : after a long time you reach a point where you know exactly what you're doing
so where's the problem in proving a few hundreds image to apply with an agency ?
there's nothing wrong in being a newbie, just don't dream of selling photos.
that's something pro do, not newbies.
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$40 to go. Good for you. I guess you are preparing a press release and a big party. Though I don't think you will invite me. ::)
there.
exactly what i was trying to say.
anyone can make few good shots and make 40$ but this doesn't make you a pro.
when you'll make let's say 4000$/month with your photos then we'll talk about it.
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I have never said that I would be a pro after this or that..! I am trying do create a portfolio that's it, while I am enjoying a lot doing it, which is bringing more color to my life (not the earnings, but the friends that come with it)
But like I said before, anyone can do this, of course, there will be a time that photos must be very good so it could bring earnings to another level.. I am very new to predict the future, but I cannot assure you that I won't give up easily!
like you said 4k would be to pros, I agree 100%, for now my aim is not that, because I know it is impossible, the main thing is doing a thing that brings something good to your own life, it is happening to me, when it doesn't I will leave!
regarding the party for SS, I won't do it of course, but I am doing a blog post, and it is the problem??.. It keep my track along the way since the beginning and I can call it also a competition between stock friends and so on, it is just a motivation, they are small goals, but like I said we gotta start with something!
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so what is the problem of being a newbie? like I have always read from pros, is they saying that are building up a good and saleable portfolio!..
the problem with newbies is that they should stick to Flickr instead of polluting the pro's market
with their tiny portfolios.
pros and competition is more than welcome, but we should close the door to the horde of
1000s of newbies with 30-40 photos each.
and about learning : after a long time you reach a point where you know exactly what you're doing
so where's the problem in proving a few hundreds image to apply with an agency ?
there's nothing wrong in being a newbie, just don't dream of selling photos.
that's something pro do, not newbies.
Now aren't you setting the bar a bit low. Isn't the final goal of any Photographer to have a one man show in a fancy Soho Photogrpahy Gallery selling a print for $5000 (with or without art groupies), or the cover of Vogue?
Its good to have aspirations, n'est pas
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Here is another perspective. I do not have a problem helping new submitters. However I do have a problem helping and watching long standing submitters take advantage of and utilize the vulnerabilities, inexperience and naivete of new submitters for their own financial gain. The fact that the process "sometimes" harms the newcomers as well as long time submitters makes ignoring the situation hard to swallow.
If we do not discuss industry challenges, how can we as a group take steps to become part of the solution by promoting a culture of ethical accountability?
We can build an ethical micostock culture by improving our own overall personal performance and passing on that professional expertise to others in our field who we see are also putting in the effort it takes to succeed in this business. That culture would enable an environment of sustainable development for all of us.
If we ignore those who with open eyes are willing to base their business plans on exploiting the vulnerabilities of the industry as well as exploiting the newest inexperience individuals entering into it, knowing full well that they will be harming the industry as a whole, we have only ourselves to blame as the situation continues to deteriorate.
I think I'm missing something you're trying to infer here, and it's not making sense to me. Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors? I want to point out the madness in your statement about giving our "expertise to others in our field who we see are also putting in the effort it takes to succeed in this business" but I sense your meaning is a bit incomplete. Of all the people that I don't want to cultivate, it's those that are putting in the effort it takes to succeed (compete with me).
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What happens when a newbie(me) agrees with the guys against newbies(atleast the general idea that promoting contributor refferal links hurts you in the long run). Will microstock shatter?Will hell freeze? Will Fotolia increase commissions?
However, as long as the agencies will have these refferal bonuses(for contributors) we can't do much. More agencies should promote buyer refferal offers and bonuses. That way both agencies and contributors profit and you can actually earn something from the refferal(think of getting 10% of a 5000$ deposit :) )
Alas, the agencies have the power, but atleast let's hope the standards for getting photographs(and hopefully illustrations) accepted will keep the supply steady.
One way or the other fighting on a forum won't solve any issues. Happy shooting.
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Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors?
I think they were referring to the vultures that hang around places like the SS forum to prey on new submitters and then try to sell them their books and/or courses.
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Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors?
I think they were referring to the vultures that hang around places like the SS forum to prey on new submitters and then try to sell them their books and/or courses.
Ah. Right. I rarely read there... Thx.
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Hahaha, you all crack me up. ( and by you all I don't mean anyone specific :-* )
You take an industry that was created on welcoming hobbyist, amateurs, and newbies; then you find a way to make a living. That's great, more power to you. You did this while fighting off traditional RM and RF stock shooters whose market you were destroying. You were partying off your nickels while telling the "Professional" stock photographers to shove it.
NOW, you are in an industry that is STILL welcome to hobbyist, amateurs, and newbies with one simple change; quality has increased. Now that you have found the flaws in your actions, you blame it on new comers and forget where you started. But it's never been your fault has it; it's theirs.
Be rude to anyone you want; it's not going to stop, or even slow down. The agencies love you. They do, they want to give you a hug; really.
Saying websites are taking advantage of newcomers is like saying microstock contributors are taking advantage of the agencies.
It's ok though, I have a solution to THIS problem that's almost done. I just need to get these Chinese and Indian language packs working just right. ;)
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Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors?
I think they were referring to the vultures that hang around places like the SS forum to prey on new submitters and then try to sell them their books and/or courses.
LOL (just to let you know I am a big fan of him)
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The time of stock is really really really over by now. Yuri Arcurs is sitting near McDonald's with a styrofoam cup, begging for cents. Really. Better get out. Nothing to see here. Move on. Really. 8)
speak for yourself ;-) but the time to start new in microstock seems to be gone...wouldn't want to be starting from scratch now and as sharply_done said earlier, the more invested you become, and ironically the more your income grows, the closer you keep your cards to your chest.
Sure. Very close. Really. ;D
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LOL (just to let you know I am a big fan of him)
Nothing personal but a statement like that is the reason you'll never succeed in this business, or gain respect from the folk that do know what they're talking about.
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LOL (just to let you know I am a big fan of him)
Nothing personal but a statement like that is the reason you'll never succeed in this business, or gain respect from the folk that do know what they're talking about.
lol..! don't you have "favorites"? I got a few from SS, IS..! Don't you?.. Are you that egocentric?
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1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They run a very expert blog about the microstock business.
8. They pimp their contributor referral links in all message bodies, as well as their very expert blog article links.
9. When you block them as time wasters on the MSG, they start scorning you in private in the Dreamstime comments.
10. You will find them as commenters on all successful blogs like Lee's and Ellen's. They spend more time babbling, blogging, foruming and commenting than shooting.
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Are you that egocentric?
He is a fantastic photographer. I know his port by heart and I wish I could reach his level now and then. This place is to learn... not to fight.
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1. They are microstock cheerleaders telling everyone how great this business is.
2. They still earn $0.25 at Shutterstock
3. They support Thinkstock. And of course, they think $0.25 is ok!
4. They do not yet qualify to be IS exclusive. Even though it's only 250 images required.
5. They celebrate every single sale they make.
6. They make statistics with small numbers.
What else? Mmm... Ah!
7. They run a very expert blog about the microstock business.
8. They pimp their contributor referral links in all message bodies, as well as their very expert blog article links.
9. When you block them as time wasters on the MSG, they start scorning you in private in the Dreamstime comments.
10. You will find them as commenters on all successful blogs like Lee's and Ellen's. They spend more time babbling, blogging, foruming and commenting than shooting.
EXPERT BLOG?? LOL thanks for that! :)
I have sent a message for DT because you have offended me, saying that I was a referral guy, and I repeat have 30$ from referrals, and 1300$ from sales!.. COME ON..!!
Regarding Lee, I was there since I started, he helped me a lot, he had a lot of good information there, so should you blame him NOW???..
Regarding Ellen, it was just the other day, I wanted the say thanks, thats it, what is the problem there?? I am not gaining anything, so whats up??
Now, please take a look at my IS account, do you think it is easy to have 300 photos online??.. Yeah I know they suck..! but IS accepted them, just like other agencies!..
for real what is your problem?
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Are you that egocentric?
He is a fantastic photographer. I know his port by heart and I wish I could reach his level now and then. This place is to learn... not to fight.
I haven't said he wasn't, I don't know but I won't bet it is MUCH, WAY better than mine, just a newbie like you guys keep on saying!.. I was just saying I got favorites photographers that's it!
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I feel like I am in 2002 again.
Does anyone ever "gain respect from the folk that do know what they're talking about"? And who says they "know what they are talking about"?
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FD-amateur, calling luissantos84 a moron is not going to help anything.
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FD-amateur, calling luissantos84 a moron is not going to help anything.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:37 by FD-amateur »
Thanks for editing that.
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FD-amateur, calling luissantos84 a moron is not going to help anything.
that's no big deal, I just want some respect because I have been working hard, couldn't be the best stock photos but I am doing my best, if stock agencies accepted them I guess I deserve a little of respect, but I am getting used to this fight, but like FD-amateur said this forum is to help, so from now on I won't fight! :P
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To luissantos84 and any other "newbies" getting discouraged by this thread.
I consider myself a newbie, just over a year in microstock and under 1,000 images, and yet I'm almost at the revenue level that macrosaur said he'd take me seriously. You can gain, you can grow. I started from scratch, but did my homework to figure out what sells, and I'm exceeding the goals I set for myself. Don't worry about those who want to close the door on you. Just prove yourself. If you have the skills, a good work ethic, and the marketing know-how to figure out a niche you can fill, you'll succeed.
On the other hand, you'll notice I don't share links to my ports. I agree with all the comments that say it's crazy to give your competition the bullet to put in your head. I prefer to help by encouragement.
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lol..! don't you have "favorites"? I got a few from SS, IS..! Don't you?.. Are you that egocentric?
My comment wasn't meant as an insult which is why I started it with "Nothing personal", the person you're referring to has many 'fans' and that's the way he likes things, the point I was trying to make is that anybody can write anything on a forum and make themselves look good, if you learn to see through the smokescreen you'll see that sometimes these people aren't the success they want you to believe . If you want to succeed in this business take advice and inspiration from those that actually are successful.
You moan that 'newbies' are not treated with respect, making the statement that you're a 'fan' of someone the successful one's amongst know is nothing more than full of sh** is not going to get you that respect.
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FD-amateur, calling luissantos84 a moron is not going to help anything.
that's no big deal, I just want some respect because I have been working hard, couldn't be the best stock photos but I am doing my best, if stock agencies accepted them I guess I deserve a little of respect, but I am getting used to this fight, but like FD-amateur said this forum is to help, so from now on I won't fight! :P
It's pointless really. It's just getting worse. As profits drop, people are finding places to point the finger. I am in no way a newbie, but I have never claimed to be a pro. I also don't run around posting referral links on other people's sites. I have my own sites, and I can do whatever I please with them.
Microstock was started for people like you, me, and everyone else for that matter. I had film scans of stock photos that, like the ever famous "bitter" could not get them accepted at any big stock house. Why? I either did not want to get that collection of 1000 images to start, or I simply was not in the crowd. Or as the haters would say, “Your photos suck.”; but if you compare your images to their images you find the truth. I enjoy photography. And with microstock it's a hobby that more than pays for itself.
I submit stock photos when I feel like submitting stock photos. I do not need someone clinging to the last hope of a dollar telling me what I can and can't do. I also take a stand against the agencies when they feel like pulling a fast one on everyone. That's more than most of the people bashing the newbies can say.
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can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
anyone with less than 1000 saleable images.
LOL... There is people with a portfolio of 250 to 400 images that have more than 10 000 sales. That's probably more than you, but we can't see your work. The problem to me is the portfolio with more than 1000 unsellable images, not the ones with small sellable portfolio... Seriously
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[The problem to me is the portfolio with more than 1000 unsellable images, not the ones with small sellable portfolio... Seriously
I agree. What will choke microstock to death are the portfolios in which the contributor submits 100 shots from every photo shoot... models at slightly different angles... with the reasoning that "you just don't know what angle the buyer wants the model to be facing."
I'm also a microstock buyer, and it's a frustrating experience having to cull through so many nearly identical images to get to one I want.
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He is a fantastic photographer. I know his port by heart and I wish I could reach his level now and then. This place is to learn... not to fight.
Thanks I've never had a stalker before :D
I haven't said he wasn't, I don't know but I won't bet it is MUCH, WAY better than mine, just a newbie like you guys keep on saying!.. I was just saying I got favorites photographers that's it!
As I said in my PM to you, you're a good photographer, but stock is not all about photography and it certainly isn't about art, both Yuri and Sean whom are successful for different reasons both pointed out the other day that you need to produce images that have a large sales appeal to them, sharply_done gave some of the best advice to a guy in another thread, learn to think this way and save the romantic side of photography for some other place/time.
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Here is another perspective. I do not have a problem helping new submitters. However I do have a problem helping and watching long standing submitters take advantage of and utilize the vulnerabilities, inexperience and naivete of new submitters for their own financial gain. The fact that the process "sometimes" harms the newcomers as well as long time submitters makes ignoring the situation hard to swallow.
If we do not discuss industry challenges, how can we as a group take steps to become part of the solution by promoting a culture of ethical accountability?
We can build an ethical micostock culture by improving our own overall personal performance and passing on that professional expertise to others in our field who we see are also putting in the effort it takes to succeed in this business. That culture would enable an environment of sustainable development for all of us.
If we ignore those who with open eyes are willing to base their business plans on exploiting the vulnerabilities of the industry as well as exploiting the newest inexperience individuals entering into it, knowing full well that they will be harming the industry as a whole, we have only ourselves to blame as the situation continues to deteriorate.
I think I'm missing something you're trying to infer here, and it's not making sense to me. Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors? I want to point out the madness in your statement about giving our "expertise to others in our field who we see are also putting in the effort it takes to succeed in this business" but I sense your meaning is a bit incomplete. Of all the people that I don't want to cultivate, it's those that are putting in the effort it takes to succeed (compete with me).
You are correct my post is incomplete because I do not want to mention specific names. I guess where we differ is that if I see someone who will get there one way or another I do not have a problem helping them, within reason of course. It is all relative.
I am referring to the extremes in my post.
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Aside from silly referral pimping, how are contributors taking advantage of new contributors?
I think they were referring to the vultures that hang around places like the SS forum to prey on new submitters and then try to sell them their books and/or courses.
Ah. Right. I rarely read there... Thx.
Richard is correct
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Now aren't you setting the bar a bit low. Isn't the final goal of any Photographer to have a one man show in a fancy Soho Photogrpahy Gallery selling a print for $5000 (with or without art groupies), or the cover of Vogue?
Its good to have aspirations, n'est pas
it depends, there's people on Getty making big bucks with just 2-300 photos.
others selling travel with 70.000 photos, but they all have two things in common :
1 - they did their homework and decided to go pro
2 - they're able to make profesional photos in good volumes with no questions asked.
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can you define "newbie" in 3 or 4 comments?
anyone with less than 1000 saleable images.
LOL... There is people with a portfolio of 250 to 400 images that have more than 10 000 sales. That's probably more than you, but we can't see your work. The problem to me is the portfolio with more than 1000 unsellable images, not the ones with small sellable portfolio... Seriously
fine, but can you call a pro stock photographer somebody shooting 200 photos in 3 years ?
i mean, this is stock, it's all about volume, it's not art.
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Thanks for editing that.
It took 5 minutes since I had an electricity brownout. That was Dr. Jekyll.
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[The problem to me is the portfolio with more than 1000 unsellable images, not the ones with small sellable portfolio... Seriously
I agree. What will choke microstock to death are the portfolios in which the contributor submits 100 shots from every photo shoot... models at slightly different angles... with the reasoning that "you just don't know what angle the buyer wants the model to be facing."
I'm also a microstock buyer, and it's a frustrating experience having to cull through so many nearly identical images to get to one I want.
Which proves that you have a specific need, and aren't prepared to satisfice, or you'd just take an early pic which came up on the search.
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He is a fantastic photographer. I know his port by heart and I wish I could reach his level now and then. This place is to learn... not to fight.
Thanks I've never had a stalker before :D
I'm actually trying to steal your concepts. ;)
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[nvm, moving my question to another thread...]
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From all sources? Or just stills?
If you add up Stills, Video, AE projects, and 3D models (all things digital), I finally cracked $1000 in February. I've been flirting with it for some time (in the mid $900's). That is roughly tripling my digital income from Jan/Feb of last year after more than quadrupling my total online portfolio since last year.
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From all sources? Or just stills?
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Heh ... that's funny - looks like you didn't bother to read through all 8 pages before you posted, dnavarrojr!