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Author Topic: MICROAA association  (Read 3849 times)

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« on: November 17, 2016, 10:29 »
0
MICROSTOCK AUTHORS ASSOCIATION  :) -  maybe it is time to establish  :)


alno

« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 11:41 »
+4
No, it is not.

« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 12:56 »
+3
Nope and Nope.

PureArt

  • UK
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 13:08 »
+5
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 13:16 »
+1
I like the idea of an association or a union I am just not sure how it could work out considering we are all over the world, with sometimes completely different legislation regarding unions / associations.
I think it would be a more efficient way make our voice heard than a petition.
I am also curious about the arguments of not doing it, maybe there was a discussion before that I missed?

alno

« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 17:47 »
+6
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

The idea of any type of an association or a union in microstock is childish itself. There tons of questions which obviously don't have answers.
Imagine you have a union.
Why on earth any stock site authorities would listen to it? Would union recall ALL members' portfolios in some crisis situation? OK, then there would be several hundreds/thousands of new Chinese and Belarusian contributors to fill empty seats. Those people are not treacherous, they just can't speak or read English to figure out any union membership idea. They are simply using some autotranslation tools for titles and keywording.

Imagine you have a union.
Who would pay the operating costs? How would be calculated monthly fee? $5 is nothing to Axiomimages (I peronally doubt they need such a b*s* at all). $5 is enough to buy food for African family for couple of days.

Imagine you have a union.
Would it control pricing of its members on sites like Pond5? There is obviously no "one size fits all". Who and how would determine and continuously control the "fair" pricing?

« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 17:53 »
+5
When I saw micro AA, I thought of people with a small alcohol problem, probably quite appropriate.  I don't like the idea because all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible, I don't think an association is going to help.

« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 18:03 »
+2
Why do people always think that is so easy to open anything is easy???

There are already some great associations out there for designers, AIGA, GAG, and there are some for Photographers. There is the society of illustrators, and others...All kinds of established societies.

You go talk to them about micro stock.



« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 19:00 »
+1
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

The idea of any type of an association or a union in microstock is childish itself. There tons of questions which obviously don't have answers.
Imagine you have a union.
Why on earth any stock site authorities would listen to it? Would union recall ALL members' portfolios in some crisis situation? OK, then there would be several hundreds/thousands of new Chinese and Belarusian contributors to fill empty seats. Those people are not treacherous, they just can't speak or read English to figure out any union membership idea. They are simply using some autotranslation tools for titles and keywording.

Imagine you have a union.
Who would pay the operating costs? How would be calculated monthly fee? $5 is nothing to Axiomimages (I peronally doubt they need such a b*s* at all). $5 is enough to buy food for African family for couple of days.

Imagine you have a union.
Would it control pricing of its members on sites like Pond5? There is obviously no "one size fits all". Who and how would determine and continuously control the "fair" pricing?

Thank you for taking the time to explain, I appreciate it.

« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 21:52 »
+1
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

What is your leverage or barging power over the agencies. Without that it's just an empty friendship club. This isn't just words, it's the essence and bottom line of any union and the power to negotiate. No power, no leverage, you have nothing.

Somebody tell me how you pressure the agencies with no power or control.

NO! and that's why it will never work.


« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 21:57 »
+1
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

What is your leverage or barging power over the agencies. Without that it's just an empty friendship club. This isn't just words, it's the essence and bottom line of any union and the power to negotiate. No power, no leverage, you have nothing.

Somebody tell me how you pressure the agencies with no power or control.

NO! and that's why it will never work.

The only thing that will work is if EVERYONE puller their ports....that will never work and therefore neither would a union. Point taken.

farbled

« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 21:59 »
+1
The only power a union would have is if it controlled a sizable chunk of the contributors' libraries and then represent them to agencies as a collection. Since the quality levels, portfolio sizes, etc vary so widely, how could a union treat all members equally? Why would I join a group that would force restrictions on where, what and how much I could sell my images for? I can't see it. I wouldn't join one unless there was an immediate and visible benefit to joining. As the movie says, "show me the money." Meaning, how would joining improve my bottom line.

PureArt

  • UK
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 04:57 »
0
... all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible ...

Why do you think it is not possible? Because SymbioStock community is so small and their search engine is pitiful? Or the problem is not in the engine? Is it about SEO?

« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 08:11 »
+1
... all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible ...

Why do you think it is not possible? Because SymbioStock community is so small and their search engine is pitiful? Or the problem is not in the engine? Is it about SEO?
Symbiostock isn't one site, everyone has to pay for their own site.  I never liked that idea.  Why have so many people spending money on hosting and having to constantly work on their sites when that time and money could be used on one site for all of us?  Lots of individual sites is a pain for buyers as well.

Tror

« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 08:57 »
+3
There are millions of ways a Association could help. It is just not possible with people who refuse to believe in any community project or think the only way to change things is mass deleting portfolios or directly attack agencies.

Some examples (assuming a association with some basic membership fee):

- File lawsuits against Agencies whenever their decisions are questionable legally. For example, one big agency is giving away our images basically for free through a partnership program. I do not know the legalities, but a competent lawyer surely would find thousands of vulnerable points.

- Engage someone to publish and write articles, investigates and researches situations and give us a voice.

A nice article on petapixel e.g. about the ridiculous Inspection standards on SS for example would be very useful. These thing do not change anything overnight, but it would give us a voice and strengthen our position.

- Write formal letters with explanation requests.

- Control partner programs and intimidate legally Agencies if necessary.

Right now, nobody can really change anything because we would be immediately threatened with account suspension etc.

If there would be a association, I would participate immediately.

« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2016, 11:10 »
+1
There are millions of ways a Association could help. It is just not possible with people who refuse to believe in any community project or think the only way to change things is mass deleting portfolios or directly attack agencies.

Some examples (assuming a association with some basic membership fee):

- File lawsuits against Agencies whenever their decisions are questionable legally. For example, one big agency is giving away our images basically for free through a partnership program. I do not know the legalities, but a competent lawyer surely would find thousands of vulnerable points.

- Engage someone to publish and write articles, investigates and researches situations and give us a voice.

A nice article on petapixel e.g. about the ridiculous Inspection standards on SS for example would be very useful. These thing do not change anything overnight, but it would give us a voice and strengthen our position.

- Write formal letters with explanation requests.

- Control partner programs and intimidate legally Agencies if necessary.

Right now, nobody can really change anything because we would be immediately threatened with account suspension etc.

If there would be a association, I would participate immediately.

A union/association could also "target" the buyers of microstock images by encouraging them to boycott a specific agency that is not paying fairly (i.e. Getty Images low royalties for iStock independent contributors.) Many designers freelance so they would be particularly understanding. This would be significant "leverage."
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 11:13 by Julz »

« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2016, 12:57 »
0
When I saw micro AA, I thought of people with a small alcohol problem, probably quite appropriate.  I don't like the idea because all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible, I don't think an association is going to help.
Also thought of alcohol :)  don't like the idea tho, would never work.


PureArt

  • UK
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2016, 15:00 »
0
... all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible ...

Why do you think it is not possible? Because SymbioStock community is so small and their search engine is pitiful? Or the problem is not in the engine? Is it about SEO?
Symbiostock isn't one site, everyone has to pay for their own site.  I never liked that idea.  Why have so many people spending money on hosting and having to constantly work on their sites when that time and money could be used on one site for all of us?  Lots of individual sites is a pain for buyers as well.

Ok. How do you see "owned by contributors" in the reality? Owned by Microstock Authors Association? Owned by some company where all the shareholders are photographers and illustrators? And its CEO is a photographer?

« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2016, 18:57 »
+1
... all we have ever needed is a site majority owned by contributors and if that's not possible ...

Why do you think it is not possible? Because SymbioStock community is so small and their search engine is pitiful? Or the problem is not in the engine? Is it about SEO?
Symbiostock isn't one site, everyone has to pay for their own site.  I never liked that idea.  Why have so many people spending money on hosting and having to constantly work on their sites when that time and money could be used on one site for all of us?  Lots of individual sites is a pain for buyers as well.

Ok. How do you see "owned by contributors" in the reality? Owned by Microstock Authors Association? Owned by some company where all the shareholders are photographers and illustrators? And its CEO is a photographer?
Perhaps the easiest way would be for a group of contributors to get together and buy a 51% stake in one of the smaller sites.  I haven't thought about the details much because there isn't much point unless more people are seriously interested.

Tror

« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 19:15 »
0
Another useful application of a Association would be to organize and / or hold periodic local and anual international meetings to exchange wisdom, knowledge, strategies and invite actually Agencies. The MEXPO doesn`t exist anymore and with a existing organizational structure it should be easier to organize....

« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2016, 19:16 »
0
I for one think its doable, that it would work for sure at least in long term and that member could benefit if the cards are played right.

Didn't think much about it but for starters main terms on which its is based would have to stay unchangeable and for rest.."one member" "one vote" formula would be a nice way to go in my opinion.

A Coop accompanying site found by memberships would be a nice way to resolve many questions and doubts and if by a chance it starts to be successful it would make a nice tool for people who want to contribute around for peanuts. So many doors could open as I see it.

Just a though though :)

     

farbled

« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2016, 21:09 »
0
I like COOP's. I would happily get involved with a dozen or so other photographers with complimentary subjects, styles and quality levels.

« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2016, 23:25 »
0
Any particular reasons for "yes" or "no", guys and girls? Now your conversation looks childish like:
- Yes, yes, yes!
- No, no, no!

The idea of any type of an association or a union in microstock is childish itself. There tons of questions which obviously don't have answers.
Imagine you have a union.
Why on earth any stock site authorities would listen to it? Would union recall ALL members' portfolios in some crisis situation? OK, then there would be several hundreds/thousands of new Chinese and Belarusian contributors to fill empty seats. Those people are not treacherous, they just can't speak or read English to figure out any union membership idea. They are simply using some autotranslation tools for titles and keywording.

Imagine you have a union.
Who would pay the operating costs? How would be calculated monthly fee? $5 is nothing to Axiomimages (I peronally doubt they need such a b*s* at all). $5 is enough to buy food for African family for couple of days.

Imagine you have a union.
Would it control pricing of its members on sites like Pond5? There is obviously no "one size fits all". Who and how would determine and continuously control the "fair" pricing?

We will never have a union.  But we could have a guild. 

« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2016, 02:06 »
0
The part about articles related to % royalties to the contributors that these agencies are paying seemed the most achievable sensible idea that an association could achieve.

If buyers had the knowledge that for the same or even paying a lower price that if they changed sites they were giving more money to the photographers some of them would change. Might only be a couple of % of buyers.

Of course people have to step up and run it, and people would need to fund it.

One of the problems is that the definition of fair royalities is different to contributors. Some say 80%, some >80%, some 30% aslong as they sell a lot, some anything higher than IS. 


 

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