on a tiny test of 7 images, i found 3 hits.  i chose images i thought likely to have been used, no time to test several thousands more

i kept getting
'The top result has 96% similarity with the searched image'

but no images show - does that mean the image was used, but few if any like it?

You realize that by "used to train" they really mean "ripped off"?

not really - no individual image is being copied - millions of images are used in training. the AI starts as a random assortment of pixels and doesn't copy any existing image, just uses them to move towards a unique image. no one has shown that there's a connection between an individual image and the AI result

what would you suggest as a payment for such a usage?

Ok then, I can read a book that you wrote - take detailed notes page by page - then "write" my own book and sell it. Hey, I just used yours to "train" myself.  Or as you put it, to "move towards" my own version. You can't point to any identical sentences so my conscience is clear.

Hey, that's how QUentin Tarantino makes his movies.

Quote from: stockastic on September 17, 2022, 22:19

Ok then, I can read a book that you wrote - take detailed notes page by page - then "write" my own book and sell it. Hey, I just used yours to "train" myself.  Or as you put it, to "move towards" my own version. You can't point to any identical sentences so my conscience is clear.

Hey, that's how QUentin Tarantino makes his movies.

And how The Beatles wrote several of their songs. Then Oasis did it, and got all the criticism.

I am glad that the contribution is interesting. I was just thinking about the possibility that we creators will be entitled to some profit for the use of our work. But I suppose there is a legal loophole about it.

I am glad that the contribution is interesting. I was just thinking about the possibility that we creators will be entitled to some profit for the use of our work. But I suppose there is a legal loophole about it.

perhaps, but it would make SS look munificent - you'd be sharing the wealth with millions of other artists

looks like my guess wasnt totally off

i have no clue about all this ai,
but for me it looks like results are generated (stolen)

from existing keyworded work - without consent, compensation and regard of copyright

Tarantino first buys the rights to the book, even if the result has little relation to the original

No pretty much every single scene in Tarantino's films comes from a film he saw. He has taken hundreds of those influences and made something completely different (which is exactly what AI is doing). And he hasn't bought the rights to any of the films he's borrowing from but if you read his interviews, he's acknowledged quite openly where he's taken some of his moments from.

Quote from: sharpshot on September 18, 2022, 05:53

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 01:11

Quote from: stockastic on September 17, 2022, 22:19

Ok then, I can read a book that you wrote - take detailed notes page by page - then "write" my own book and sell it. Hey, I just used yours to "train" myself.  Or as you put it, to "move towards" my own version. You can't point to any identical sentences so my conscience is clear.

Hey, that's how QUentin Tarantino makes his movies.

And how The Beatles wrote several of their songs. Then Oasis did it, and got all the criticism.

Really? Several? Name a couple, and the source material, I'd be interested.

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 23:28

Quote from: cascoly on September 18, 2022, 13:51

Tarantino first buys the rights to the book, even if the result has little relation to the original

No pretty much every single scene in Tarantino's films comes from a film he saw. He has taken hundreds of those influences and made something completely different (which is exactly what AI is doing). And he hasn't bought the rights to any of the films he's borrowing from but if you read his interviews, he's acknowledged quite openly where he's taken some of his moments from.

That's not unusual as for years the movie and TV industry has been doing "inspired" scenes by using bits of previous works. The film Noir, some of the methods and blocking, are identical to older films. Those old films, sequences were copied from other old films. People like Lucas and Spielberg are known for filmmaking craft. They use classic scenes, remade and woven in to fit their movies.

This is interesting for people asking about the legal aspects:  https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/22/commercial-image-generating-ai-raises-all-sorts-of-thorny-legal-issues/

"...there isn�t a direct legal precedent in the U.S. that upholds publicly available training data as fair use." There's already a case in the system arguing that rights are being infringed upon. If the case ends up being, the scraping the web for PD sites and who knows where else is not fair use, then the AI creators will have to license the data they use. How much would those initial 5 million images cost?

Oh a couple of IS and SS subscriptions and we get our 2 cents and the system puts us out of business, with our own images.

I Saw Her Standing There - Chuck Berry, "I�m Talking About You"

Lady Madonna - Humphrey Lyttelton, "Bad Penny Blues" + Dan Burley, "South Side Shake"

I Feel Fine - Bobby Parker, "Watch Your Step"

Come Together - Chuck Berry, "You Can�t Catch Me"

Revolution - Pee Wee Crayton, "Do Unto Others"

Yesterday - Nat King Cole, "My Love"

Hey Jude - John Ireland, "Te Deum"

Run For Your Life - Elvis Presley, "Baby Let�s Play House"

We're all being conned by this "AI" bullsh!t, there's no "intelligence" behind this,  and "train" is market-speak.  What's really going on is a new form of copying - one that's untraceable and unproveable - with multiple images used to create a mashup that's then refined by clever algorithms and filters.   If you want an analogy, think of "sampling" in the music business - and the lawsuits it's generated.

The real "training" going on is tuning this software to produce stuff that people like - and will pay for.

Yes, I'm ranting.  I'm a former software engineer and all this bogus hype is ticking me off.  Let's quit repeating marketing bullet points and defending this stuff.  The people behind it know exactly what they're doing, and just hope to make a ton of money before copyright law catches up with them - if it ever does.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on September 19, 2022, 11:15

Quote from: sharpshot on September 18, 2022, 05:53

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 01:11

Quote from: stockastic on September 17, 2022, 22:19

Ok then, I can read a book that you wrote - take detailed notes page by page - then "write" my own book and sell it. Hey, I just used yours to "train" myself.  Or as you put it, to "move towards" my own version. You can't point to any identical sentences so my conscience is clear.

Hey, that's how QUentin Tarantino makes his movies.

And how The Beatles wrote several of their songs. Then Oasis did it, and got all the criticism.

Really? Several? Name a couple, and the source material, I'd be interested.

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 23:28

Quote from: cascoly on September 18, 2022, 13:51

Tarantino first buys the rights to the book, even if the result has little relation to the original

No pretty much every single scene in Tarantino's films comes from a film he saw. He has taken hundreds of those influences and made something completely different (which is exactly what AI is doing). And he hasn't bought the rights to any of the films he's borrowing from but if you read his interviews, he's acknowledged quite openly where he's taken some of his moments from.

That's not unusual as for years the movie and TV industry has been doing "inspired" scenes by using bits of previous works. The film Noir, some of the methods and blocking, are identical to older films. Those old films, sequences were copied from other old films. People like Lucas and Spielberg are known for filmmaking craft. They use classic scenes, remade and woven in to fit their movies.

This is interesting for people asking about the legal aspects:  https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/22/commercial-image-generating-ai-raises-all-sorts-of-thorny-legal-issues/

"...there isn�t a direct legal precedent in the U.S. that upholds publicly available training data as fair use." There's already a case in the system arguing that rights are being infringed upon. If the case ends up being, the scraping the web for PD sites and who knows where else is not fair use, then the AI creators will have to license the data they use. How much would those initial 5 million images cost?

Oh a couple of IS and SS subscriptions and we get our 2 cents and the system puts us out of business, with our own images.

I Saw Her Standing There - Chuck Berry, "I�m Talking About You"

Lady Madonna - Humphrey Lyttelton, "Bad Penny Blues" + Dan Burley, "South Side Shake"

I Feel Fine - Bobby Parker, "Watch Your Step"

Come Together - Chuck Berry, "You Can�t Catch Me"

Revolution - Pee Wee Crayton, "Do Unto Others"

Yesterday - Nat King Cole, "My Love"

Hey Jude - John Ireland, "Te Deum"

Run For Your Life - Elvis Presley, "Baby Let�s Play House"

Great list, some inspired is not copying. Louie Louie, Hang on Sloopy, Call any Vegetable, and many more could all be the same song. But thanks, that was interesting.

n 1973, The Beatles were sued by Big Seven Music Corp which handled Chuck Berry�s �You Can�t Catch Me�. They claimed that not only was the beat from �Come Together� just Berry�s song slowed down, the lyrics were also stolen.  For reference, the lyrics in question are John Lennon�s �Here come ol� flattop, he come groovin� up slowly� to Berry�s �Here come a flattop, he was movin� up with me�.

Both parties settled out of court, but Lennon wasn�t done.  He vowed to record three more songs owned by Big Seven Music Corp.  Big Music responded politely by doing the same thing to John Lennon, releasing a series of unauthorized outtakes designed to embarrass Lennon.  When it was time to take the wreckage to court, both sides lawyered up in what must have been an epic legal showdown.  In the end, it was John Lennon that won, to the tune of 85 grand.

That's what the courts thought.

Hey here's another, a movie, and I liked both of them.

Pee-wee's Big Adventure (1985) / Bicycle Thieves (1948)

Is using an image to train AI infringing? Since that's in the courts now, the answer should be interesting to all of us?

Faces? "IBM allegedly created, collected and stored millions of face templates�highly detailed geometric maps of the face�from about a million photos that make up the �diversity in faces� database. Janecyk claimed that IBM obtained the photos from Flickr, a website where users upload their photos. "

The future of this, when it's out of beta testing and to the point where the developers are confident in their ability to produce a useful commercial product is known as pay-per-query.

Hats off to the OP that page is interesting to see what come up for a search. That could be useful in itself for ideas?

Want something more personal and scary?  https://exposing.ai/  I didn't find myself. Not sure if I care? But it was interesting that Flickr and other databases are forming a collection of faces.

Quote from: Lizard on September 19, 2022, 12:05

Quote from: Uncle Pete on September 19, 2022, 11:15

Quote from: sharpshot on September 18, 2022, 05:53

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 01:11

Quote from: stockastic on September 17, 2022, 22:19

Ok then, I can read a book that you wrote - take detailed notes page by page - then "write" my own book and sell it. Hey, I just used yours to "train" myself.  Or as you put it, to "move towards" my own version. You can't point to any identical sentences so my conscience is clear.

Hey, that's how QUentin Tarantino makes his movies.

And how The Beatles wrote several of their songs. Then Oasis did it, and got all the criticism.

Really? Several? Name a couple, and the source material, I'd be interested.

Quote from: offisapup on September 18, 2022, 23:28

Quote from: cascoly on September 18, 2022, 13:51

Tarantino first buys the rights to the book, even if the result has little relation to the original

No pretty much every single scene in Tarantino's films comes from a film he saw. He has taken hundreds of those influences and made something completely different (which is exactly what AI is doing). And he hasn't bought the rights to any of the films he's borrowing from but if you read his interviews, he's acknowledged quite openly where he's taken some of his moments from.

That's not unusual as for years the movie and TV industry has been doing "inspired" scenes by using bits of previous works. The film Noir, some of the methods and blocking, are identical to older films. Those old films, sequences were copied from other old films. People like Lucas and Spielberg are known for filmmaking craft. They use classic scenes, remade and woven in to fit their movies.

This is interesting for people asking about the legal aspects:  https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/22/commercial-image-generating-ai-raises-all-sorts-of-thorny-legal-issues/

"...there isn�t a direct legal precedent in the U.S. that upholds publicly available training data as fair use." There's already a case in the system arguing that rights are being infringed upon. If the case ends up being, the scraping the web for PD sites and who knows where else is not fair use, then the AI creators will have to license the data they use. How much would those initial 5 million images cost?

Oh a couple of IS and SS subscriptions and we get our 2 cents and the system puts us out of business, with our own images.

I Saw Her Standing There - Chuck Berry, "I�m Talking About You"

Lady Madonna - Humphrey Lyttelton, "Bad Penny Blues" + Dan Burley, "South Side Shake"

I Feel Fine - Bobby Parker, "Watch Your Step"

Come Together - Chuck Berry, "You Can�t Catch Me"

Revolution - Pee Wee Crayton, "Do Unto Others"

Yesterday - Nat King Cole, "My Love"

Hey Jude - John Ireland, "Te Deum"

Run For Your Life - Elvis Presley, "Baby Let�s Play House"

Great list, some inspired is not copying. Louie Louie, Hang on Sloopy, Call any Vegetable, and many more could all be the same song. But thanks, that was interesting.

n 1973, The Beatles were sued by Big Seven Music Corp which handled Chuck Berry�s �You Can�t Catch Me�. They claimed that not only was the beat from �Come Together� just Berry�s song slowed down, the lyrics were also stolen.  For reference, the lyrics in question are John Lennon�s �Here come ol� flattop, he come groovin� up slowly� to Berry�s �Here come a flattop, he was movin� up with me�.

Both parties settled out of court, but Lennon wasn�t done.  He vowed to record three more songs owned by Big Seven Music Corp.  Big Music responded politely by doing the same thing to John Lennon, releasing a series of unauthorized outtakes designed to embarrass Lennon.  When it was time to take the wreckage to court, both sides lawyered up in what must have been an epic legal showdown.  In the end, it was John Lennon that won, to the tune of 85 grand.

That's what the courts thought.

Hey here's another, a movie, and I liked both of them.

Pee-wee's Big Adventure (1985) / Bicycle Thieves (1948)

Is using an image to train AI infringing? Since that's in the courts now, the answer should be interesting to all of us?

Faces? "IBM allegedly created, collected and stored millions of face templates�highly detailed geometric maps of the face�from about a million photos that make up the �diversity in faces� database. Janecyk claimed that IBM obtained the photos from Flickr, a website where users upload their photos. "

The future of this, when it's out of beta testing and to the point where the developers are confident in their ability to produce a useful commercial product is known as pay-per-query.

Hats off to the OP that page is interesting to see what come up for a search. That could be useful in itself for ideas?

Want something more personal and scary?  https://exposing.ai/  I didn't find myself. Not sure if I care? But it was interesting that Flickr and other databases are forming a collection of faces.

I agree but as they even changed the songs after being accused does nothing but proves they inspired themself a bit to much. Copying the exact bassline can not be inspiration

And the whole industry is full of examples like that. Bob Dylan career skyrocket after he did what he did with House of the rising sun or Blowing in the wind of which he changed complete verse later if I recall that right. He didn't even credit House of the rising sun and a career of a pure genius started like that.

Hello I love from the Doors is an example of a blatant ripoff and pretty much everyone did it in the music history not only at that or this times. Some things go a bit beyond "inspiration"