Author Topic: Some optimism would be nice (Read 15949 times)

Hongover · « **on:** June 17, 2015, 19:12 »

I just joined this site and all I see is doom and gloom. I'm a newbie photographer/vector artist and I think selling microstock is a great source of passive income. I would never do it full-time, but as a part time thing, it's pretty great.

Maybe because I'm new and I haven't developed cynicism yet, but I think I'm doing relatively well as someone who just joined SS a few months ago. Sales on Dreamstime & 123RF hasn't been good, but I didn't expect them to be.

People in general dislike change, and the industry is constantly changing. Change is a constant of life. Competition is also a constant of every aspect of life. You just have to adapt. If you sell nature photographs and so are 10,000 other photographers who does the same, how can anyone expect to go anywhere but down?

I can tell you first hand that App developers are having a worse time than microstock sellers. Apps take more time to develop, higher budgets and they have really low returns right now...much lower than microstock. There are always emerging markets...just gotta keep your eyes out.

SLStudios · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2015, 19:54 »

I think it goes back to the days when microstock was hugely profitable. Some of the people feeling down about the industry have seen huge reductions in their income because of te changes. Like you, I choose to be positive about the future and just keep working to improve and build my portfolios, but I understand why some people are negative about things now.

Take the good info here and try not to get caught up in the BS. Welcome to the topsy-turvy world of stock photography.

WeatherENG · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:00 »

Quote from: SLStudios on June 17, 2015, 19:54

I think it goes back to the days when microstock was hugely profitable. Some of the people feeling down about the industry have seen huge reductions in their income because of te changes. Like you, I choose to be positive about the future and just keep working to improve and build my portfolios, but I understand why some people are negative about things now.

Take the good info here and try not to get caught up in the BS. Welcome to the topsy-turvy world of stock photography.

I am wondering if the problem is we just haven't figured out where the puck is going to go, what is in demand and what will be in demand going forward, I know I don't have the answer yet, wish I did....if we come up with what is and what will be in demand going forward business could be good.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:01 »

I think the same people who were very bullish when things were going well are bear-ish when agencies are behaving badly towards contributors. Personal squabbles are just noise and they've always been around - tune that out.

Ignoring a negative track record, relying on the word of an agency and being much worse off as a result wouldn't seem to be a smart way to approach a new venture, even as a part time thing. Your enthusiasm and optimism will help you build a portfolio, but it's worth learning about the business you're embarking on.

Have the common sense to realize that you can't understand other people's reactions to a decade of experiences you haven't had.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:04 »

"People in general dislike change, and the industry is constantly changing. "

Thanks for today's lesson.

ShadySue · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:07 »

And bear in mind that "a cynic is a disappointed optimist".

marthamarks · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:15 »

And bear in mind that when you're a newbie, starting from zero sales, every sale at any level is a wonderful thing.

Not so wonderful is "hitting the wall," after you've got several thousand images up on the stock sites, competing with scores of millions more, and you can't possibly create and upload enough to keep up with the ever-increasing number of new images going up every day/week/month/year. Inevitably, your sales (and your income) will begin to fall.

Enjoy your enthusiasm and optimism, Hongover. May the good times last for you!

WeatherENG · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:23 »

Someone say enthusiasm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKHTawgyKWQ

admin edit: please do not add a signature to your post comment, you already have one in the 'signature area'

Hongover · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2015, 20:24 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on June 17, 2015, 20:01

I think the same people who were very bullish when things were going well are bear-ish when agencies are behaving badly towards contributors. Personal squabbles are just noise and they've always been around - tune that out.

Ignoring a negative track record, relying on the word of an agency and being much worse off as a result wouldn't seem to be a smart way to approach a new venture, even as a part time thing. Your enthusiasm and optimism will help you build a portfolio, but it's worth learning about the business you're embarking on.

Have the common sense to realize that you can't understand other people's reactions to a decade of experiences you haven't had.

Thanks for the insight Ann. I haven't been directly involved stock photography, but I been using it for over a decade now. I've used a SS subscription in the past so I do some indirect experience with it.

I think over the course of the last few years, I've download over 1000 images for various projects from Shutterstock and I've went through about 50,000-75,000 images to download those 1000 images. As someone who used a subscription, I'm really picky about what I wanted to download and that probably gave me the insight into the mindset of a downloader. A lot of work is being used for websites and apps now and if the composition doesn't fit the page I'm designing, I'm not even going to bother with it. Having a beautiful image is simply not enough...it has to be useful.

While I haven't been involved in Photography, my experience with the App Store has been similar. There's the Gold Rush era where even low quality product can earn good money. As the market matures and more people get into it, making money got harder and harder. As an app developer, I've seen my revenue fall steadily over the years. I'm making 25% of of what I used to make, and I've accepted the market for what it is. It pushed me to look to other channels to develop income and I think it's a good thing.

I believe there are always opportunities. It comes and goes. Stock Photography used to make a lot of money. Apps used to make a lot of money. Even with microstock, there are still opportunities to make good money.

memakephoto · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2015, 21:29 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 20:24

Thanks for the insight Ann. I haven't been directly involved stock photography, but I been using it for over a decade now. I've used a SS subscription in the past so I do some indirect experience with it.

I think over the course of the last few years, I've download over 1000 images for various projects from Shutterstock and I've went through about 50,000-75,000 images to download those 1000 images. As someone who used a subscription, I'm really picky about what I wanted to download and that probably gave me the insight into the mindset of a downloader. A lot of work is being used for websites and apps now and if the composition doesn't fit the page I'm designing, I'm not even going to bother with it. Having a beautiful image is simply not enough...it has to be useful.

While I haven't been involved in Photography, my experience with the App Store has been similar. There's the Gold Rush era where even low quality product can earn good money. As the market matures and more people get into it, making money got harder and harder. As an app developer, I've seen my revenue fall steadily over the years. I'm making 25% of of what I used to make, and I've accepted the market for what it is. It pushed me to look to other channels to develop income and I think it's a good thing.

I believe there are always opportunities. It comes and goes. Stock Photography used to make a lot of money. Apps used to make a lot of money. Even with microstock, there are still opportunities to make good money.

Hey everybody good news!!! There's still opportunities to make good money!!! Hongover says so and he's had a whole few months experience as a contributor. Whew. What a relief.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2015, 21:37 »

Heh, heh.

Hongover · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2015, 21:43 »

Hongover · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2015, 22:04 »

Quote from: memakephoto on June 17, 2015, 21:29

Hey everybody good news!!! There's still opportunities to make good money!!! Hongover says so and he's had a whole few months experience as a contributor. Whew. What a relief.

There are opportunities even in Microstock if you've seen what I've seen. There are always emerging trends in microstock. When the iPad first came out, I was looking for well-composed photos of people holding iPads in different settings to use for websites. Guess what, there were none and this was months after it was released.

About 6 months later, it started to trickle in and now it's flooded. Now imagine if you were one of the first to take advantage of that situation. You would have made a killing because there was huge market demand for it.

You may think I'm inexperienced, and I don't care if you do. As a SS subscription user, I've seen a side of the business that many photographers have not. I buy your photos and I know what I want.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2015, 22:25 »

Back in the old days of 2007 I was an optimistic newcomer too. I'm still optimistic about photography but not microstock. Give it a year or so and we may see you here crying on avatar shoulders. Or like many maybe you'll give up and won't be back. Best of fortune to you.

Hongover · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2015, 22:47 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 17, 2015, 22:25

Back in the old days of 2007 I was an optimistic newcomer too. I'm still optimistic about photography but not microstock. Give it a year or so and we may see you here crying on avatar shoulders. Or like many maybe you'll give up and won't be back. Best of fortune to you.

Thanks Paul. I'll be here and if I'm not, it'll be for other reasons. I'm one of the resilient ones and I have more experience than most think I do.

It took me about 3 months to break the $500 threshold on SS and I think that's better than average. Things can only get better from there.

I got rejected over 10 times before I got into SS. I doubt I'll be giving up now that I'm in.

enstoker · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2015, 23:25 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 22:47

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 17, 2015, 22:25
Back in the old days of 2007 I was an optimistic newcomer too. I'm still optimistic about photography but not microstock. Give it a year or so and we may see you here crying on avatar shoulders. Or like many maybe you'll give up and won't be back. Best of fortune to you.

Thanks Paul. I'll be here and if I'm not, it'll be for other reasons. I'm one of the resilient ones and I have more experience than most think I do.

It took me about 3 months to break the $500 threshold on SS and I think that's better than average. Things can only get better from there.

I got rejected over 10 times before I got into SS. I doubt I'll be giving up now that I'm in.

Do we have a small nonsense here?
Rejected 10 times before You got into SS and then with this same files you needed only 3 months to break the $500 threshold on SS ?
Did you uploaded 10.000 files or what?
Anyway, congratulations for your optimism.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2015, 23:47 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 22:04

When the iPad first came out, I was looking for well-composed photos of people holding iPads in different settings to use for websites. Guess what, there were none and this was months after it was released.

Newsflash. All Apple products are trademarked and those trademarks are strictly enforced. We all had to wait until they started making knockoffs before we could upload pictures of people using "tablets" for commercial use.

Really, it is quaint how many complete novices love to come in and lecture everyone who has been doing this for years or over a decade - even some who have made hundreds of thousands of dollars (per year!)- on how we don't understand the market and we are all just a bunch of complaining grumpy pants.

admin edit: took out the insult

Hongover · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2015, 00:08 »

Quote from: enstoker on June 17, 2015, 23:25

Do we have a small nonsense here?
Rejected 10 times before You got into SS and then with this same files you needed only 3 months to break the $500 threshold on SS ?
Did you uploaded 10.000 files or what?
Anyway, congratulations for your optimism.

It's over a 2 year period actually. Signed up in 2013, got rejected 7 times. Different reviewers gave different feedback on images and never got past 7 images on each submit. Didn't have a good camera at the time and ran out of new images to submit. Gave up for a while and focused on learning to make apps and worked a full-time job.

Fast forward a couple years, got myself a new camera and started shooting more often. Built up a small portfolio of photos and I had a portfolio of vector art laying around. With the App earnings trending downward, I decided to give SS another try earlier in the year.

Started with images, but got rejected a few times. Decided to mix vectors art with photos and I finally got in. I spend the next couple months uploading like mad...like no-social life mad. Had my fair share of rejections and now my portfolio currently sits at about 800, with mostly vector art.

I had training in SEO and keyword research, so that probably helps. A few single $30 downloads in last few months certainly helped me get past that magic number.

gbalex · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2015, 00:12 »

Enjoy your newby search engine bump

Pauws99 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2015, 00:33 »

Once again the group extends its traditional warm welcome. Maybe we could learn something from someone who has actually bought images...... Sorry I was forgetting we know everything already

fotografer · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2015, 00:46 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 22:47

It took me about 3 months to break the $500 threshold on SS and I think that's better than average. Things can only get better from there.

Ok just to show you why we are not happy now. You are happy breaking the threshold of $500 in 3 months in 2015- These are the figures for my first month on SS in August 2006. On the first of the month I had a handful of images up and by the end of the month a couple of hundred at most. Bear in mind that it was almost 100% sub sales as OD sales rarely happened then. My earnings 9 years later with thousands of images are not much more than double that. Maybe now you can see why we aren't optomistic.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:25 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 19:12

People in general dislike change, and the industry is constantly changing.

One of the great managerial class myths - people dislike change that adversely affects them and uncertainty. I wouldn't do the lottery if I disliked change. When bad things happen to people at work managers tell them its cos they don't like change and should embrace the new "opportunities" tosh!

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2015, 02:51 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 22:04

There are opportunities even in Microstock if you've seen what I've seen. There are always emerging trends in microstock. When the iPad first came out, I was looking for well-composed photos of people holding iPads in different settings to use for websites. Guess what, there were none and this was months after it was released.

Quote

Hopefully this can help some of you improve your sales by producing images that fit what the market needs.

Gee, thanks. We've all seen what you've seen. You're not unveiling any secrets here or making any revelations. You're just reveling in a bit of "ignorance is bliss" here.

I guarantee you, with the size of the crowd, and the experience "we" have, images of the Apple iPad were being uploaded (as editorial) within minutes of unwrapping. Either you didn't know where to look, or you didn't realize the editorial restrictions.

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on June 17, 2015, 20:01

Have the common sense to realize that you can't understand other people's reactions to a decade of experiences you haven't had.

What she said.

LesPalenik · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:31 »

Quote

Some optimism would be nice

And a good dose of realism might be not quite so nice, but really helpful.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:42 »

Some great advice here. Compose photos with copyspace, photograph the latest tech trends, get in early.

You should definitely write an ebook, it would be super helpful to have all the advise somewhere easy to reference. Looking forward to reading it, let us know when it's out!

LesPalenik · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:53 »

Quote

There are opportunities even in Microstock if you've seen what I've seen. There are always emerging trends in microstock. When the iPad first came out, I was looking for well-composed photos of people holding iPads in different settings to use for websites. Guess what, there were none and this was months after it was released.

Nah, those emerging trends are just short-term fads. There is much more demand for timeless concepts like a firm tomato or a rosy-cheeked Santa.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2015, 05:11 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 19:12

I just joined this site and all I see is doom and gloom. I'm a newbie photographer/vector artist and I think selling microstock is a great source of passive income. I would never do it full-time, but as a part time thing, it's pretty great.

Why wouldn't you do it full time?

NandoPhoto · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:47 »

I'll have to go against the flow here and agree with OP: some optimism would be nice. You don't need to be optimistic about the way the industry is going, but about what you are doing. I think it comes down to managing expectations.

I started with DT only in 2006 or 2007, always as a side income, and with about 80 images online. Back then I was making close to no money. But hey, whatever came in was better than nothing. Today I have around 1500 images online in about 12 or 13 agencies. I still see it as side income and my monthly income is between US$150 and US$250/month (it fluctuates quite a lot). Still very small compared to the medium/high earners here, and living in London doesn't help (£100-£200 doesn't go a very long way). But contrary to some people here, I don't see a great variation in income when I upload or take a break for a few months, and I get a small payout every month. This goes towards pints at the pub and other stuff on which I would be spending money anyway.

The thing is, I shoot what I like shooting, and if it sells in stock great! If not, I would have shot it anyway. I don't think the time I spend keywording, captioning and uploading is such a high cost for the number of images that I upload. I just know what to expect and manage my expectations accordingly. I also teach photography courses in a school on a freelance basis, and photograph lectures, receptions and headshots. I enjoy all aspects of my photographic work at this moment in time - I stopped shooting weddings and parties because it made me miserable. Stock still brings me pleasure, and the money that I make there is what I expect to get.

If you feel so negative about the industry and the way things are going, it's your job to change it. Great if you can change the direction the world is spinning (I'd love to have a higher RPI!), but if that's not possible maybe it would be good to look for other ways to commercialise your work.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:58 »

NandoPhoto doubleplus good from me you sum up my thoughts really well

cobalt · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:17 »

Actually i am quite optimistic, we really have many interesting options. New macro places like 500pix or offset, yesterday the announcement of adobe stock,which brings my content right into the designer workflow, video is certainly a growing market etc...

With adobe entering the stock market and launching worldwide in 36 countries, we will get much better balance. i really like ss, but I appreciate diversity in the market, I don't want to ever again be dependent on mostly just one agency.

We can supply non exclusive content everywhere or specialised content exclusively and there are many,many small and interesting agencies or collections to discover.

It might be a more confusing world then in 2004 when we could sell the most basic files 10000 times, but now we have much better pricing options, from 25 cents to 600 dollars, the whole market is open to us.

i think especially if you want to do stock longterm things are looking good.

tickstock · « **Reply #30 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:50 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2015, 11:17

With adobe entering the stock market and launching worldwide in 36 countries, we will get much better balance. i really like ss, but I appreciate diversity in the market, I don't want to ever again be dependent on mostly just one agency.

You do realize that every sale converted from SS to Adobe will result in a loss of revenue for you (something like 20-70%)? That's not the kind of diversity I support.

cobalt · « **Reply #31 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:55 »

You are assuming that the number of customers is fixed.

But i totally disagree, when my files were included in the microsoft office library, i had downloads over 600 000 times, just for one file.

Of course, i wasn't paid for this and the customers thought this is a freebie that comes with office, but the numbers show that if you make it easy to access files from inside the application you can reach many more people.

I see this as a real opportunity to reach new customers, the best new option by far in the last years.

Also fotolia pays me in euros, which is usually better for me.

tickstock · « **Reply #32 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:58 »

The only way it is any way possible to be positive is to think that they'll bring in a large amount of customers that would never have been customers without Adobe, I think that is very unlikely to happen. Their growth is going to come predominantly from converting Fotolia buyers to Adobe and from other sites.

cobalt · « **Reply #33 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:00 »

Well, we will see right?

I think the market for online business is still growing, there are still millions of people around the globe that have never used a stock agency.

I am sure adobe still has plans to grow their customer base. And with every new app or product, there will be an integration with adobe stock.

tickstock · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:01 »

Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

cobalt · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:06 »

I earn more on average downloads on fotolia than on SS, unless there is a superlarge download. So for me more sales via fotolia is better.

Ss is fantastic for video or if they have extended licenses, but otherwise it is mostly subs, which don't excite me.

On fotolia more than 50% are credit sales.

Here in germany fotolia is often stronger than SS.

tickstock · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:08 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2015, 12:06

I earn more on average downloads on fotolia than on SS, unless there is a superlarge download. So for me more sales via fotolia is better.

Ss is fantastic for video or if they have extended licenses, but otherwise it is mostly subs, which don't excite me.

On fotolia more than 50% are credit sales.

Here in germany fotolia is often stronger than SS.

This seems to be a big misconception here, Adobe is not converting customers to Fotolia they are converting customers to Adobe Stock. It's very different, there are no credit sales with no bonus for exclusive contributors or files. Again you will not get more credit sales from this you will lose credit sales on Fotolia as they try to move customers from Fotolia to Adobe Stock.

cobalt · « **Reply #37 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:20 »

Of course they have Credit packs, just like on fotolia, It is the Same system. It is not just subs. And the Return with 33% will be higher than on fotolia for me.

The end result will dependent on the mix of course, if instead of 50% credit sales I only get subs...but we will see, I don't see why the sales mix should be so different.

Anyway, why should there be any loss of customers from SS?

Wouldn't it be more logical that istock will be the biggest loser, because they don't have the Same budget for marketing?

i would expect adobe to go after the easiest target first, although personally I believe the new customers are a much bigger group.

tickstock · « **Reply #38 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:23 »

Where are you seeing credit packs at Adobe? All I see is 10 images per month (monthly or annual plan) and the 750 images per month plan. It is in no way the same system. For an exclusive full sized file if you want one it will get you something like $12 on Fotolia and $3.30 on Adobe Stock (assuming gold level). For exclusive contributors you'll get $3.30 on Adobe and $20 on Fotolia. For nonexclusive files it's $4 on Fotolia and $3.30 on Adobe. For single files on SS (top level) it's $3.75(or more) and Adobe $3.30.

cobalt · « **Reply #39 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:38 »

I just attended the webinar, they have single images for 10 euros and normal credit packs like on fotolia. I haven´t looked at the adobe site.

I am not exclusive to fotolia, I am a non exclusive silver level artist. I think I have 10 exclusive files, at the moment, but plan to increase that, especially with local content where I can keyword in German.

So for me 33% on adobe is more money, if the mix is the same.

On SS the interesting are the extended licenses, but I don´t get many. That would be the only real risk, if there is a "mass migration " to adobe and I no longer get extended licenses from SS. But since the most interesting thing about SS is video, at the moment I am not too worried.

tickstock · « **Reply #40 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:40 »

Do you have something you can point to with credit packs? I haven't seen anything about that anywhere and a google search of it doesn't come up with anything as far as I can see.
https://stock.adobe.com/plans

cobalt · « **Reply #41 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:42 »

This is what I see and in the presentation they also had an offer for single images at 9.90 euros. (net, VAT has to be added)

The allowance is roling,i.e. the customer can really use the full pack and is not limited to 25 daily downloads that they lose the next day. So there are better options of getting sales. Only mostphotos shares the unused revenue with the artist, everyone else usually the agency keeps the unused amount. But here at least we have a chance that the customers use more of their allowance.

https://stock.adobe.com/plans

cthoman · « **Reply #42 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:43 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01

Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!

tickstock · « **Reply #43 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:44 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2015, 12:42

This is what I see and in the presentation they also had an offer for single images at 9.90 euros. (net, VAT has to be added)

https://stock.adobe.com/plans

There is nothing there about credits and it certainly doesn't look like the same thing as is on Fotolia.

tickstock · « **Reply #44 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:45 »

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!

There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

cobalt · « **Reply #45 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:46 »

the smaller plans are like a credit plan, just organised as a monthly budget. The returns for me will be slightly higher than what I am getting now.

Unless it is all subs...then I will complain very loudly...until then...

Pixart · « **Reply #46 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:56 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2015, 12:06

On fotolia more than 50% are credit sales.
.

Wowza, I would love to live on your planet. I get one credit sale for every 4-6 subs.

Holmes · « **Reply #47 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:57 »

Hongover -- thanks for your post and thoughts. and welcome to the site. as you can see, there are bitter members that are always ready to jump on a newbie. It happened to me. You appear to have thick skin which is good. It is unfortunate that some here feel being rude, arrogant and hateful is acceptable. but cyberbullies are just a reality i guess.

ArenaCreative · « **Reply #48 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:03 »

Do what you think you can, try hard, and ignore the general population of naysayers. Back in 2008 it was all "doom and gloom" on this exact same forum... I'm still waiting. Maybe the "wave that will be crashed by 2009" passed right over us so quickly that it evaporated. I was sitting on my butt on the beach yesterday with a rum drink in hand, enjoying the company of my girlfriend and relatives, earning some nice passive residual royalties. It's a semi-retired feeling. It came with a ton of work over the years, but once the ball is rolling with some momentum, you can reap the rewards. It's not a true retirement, but if I were honest about how few hours I actually work each week, I would probably be embarrassed. I kick myself for not working more full-time weeks during the past 5 years. I'd probably be making double my income. But then again, not all of us live to work... I prefer to work (just enough) to live. This field comes with its pros and cons. I'm a glass-half-full type of person.

To the OP - if you want to build a nice passive, side-hobby income, then go for it... anything is possible with hard work and ingenuity.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #49 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:14 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

There are some people who are negative but I think its just because its got nothing to do with Istock

tickstock · « **Reply #50 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:25 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on June 18, 2015, 13:14

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

There are some people who are negative but I think its just because its got nothing to do with Istock

I think this is going to affect SS contributors more than iStock contributors. You can go see the earnings schedule and compare the plans and royalties between SS and Adobe. I think if you do take an honest look you'll see that for every customer that switches you are going to lose money overall as much as 70% for On Demand sales and 20% for sub sales if you are at gold on Fotolia and the top level at SS. I have a hard time seeing what the positive news is for independent contributors by far the greatest growth in Adobe is going to come from other sites that license a large amount of subs, the leader in that realm right now is SS.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #51 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:26 »

Quote from: Holmes on June 18, 2015, 12:57

Hongover -- thanks for your post and thoughts. and welcome to the site. as you can see, there are bitter members that are always ready to jump on a newbie. It happened to me. You appear to have thick skin which is good. It is unfortunate that some here feel being rude, arrogant and hateful is acceptable. but cyberbullies are just a reality i guess.

It's got nothing to do with being a newbie. WeatherENG is a newbie and he's joined just fine. It's coming in with a condescending attitude, trying to tell us what's what, after being rejected from SS for two years, selling $500 worth, and having the history of licensing a few photos in his day job.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #52 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:28 »

Can we keep the AS talk in the AS thread?

cthoman · « **Reply #53 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:31 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

I thought it was positive news. It's nice to see Fotolia move things in the other direction for a change. I have no reason to be negative about it because it has yet to impact me (if it ever does). When I see the needle moving, then I'll pivot to change with the market. Until then, there really isn't much use to worrying about it. I've got enough on my plate already.

tickstock · « **Reply #54 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:34 »

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:31

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

I thought it was positive news. It's nice to see Fotolia move things in the other direction for a change. I have no reason to be negative about it because it has yet to impact me (if it ever does). When I see the needle moving, then I'll pivot to change with the market. Until then, there really isn't much use to worrying about it. I've got enough on my plate already.

Why do you think it's positive news? Do you believe they'll bring in a lot of customers that would never have bought stock images without them entering the marketplace? They would need to bring in a lot of new customers (not just new customers but new customers that wouldn't have gone with SS) to offset the losses that you'll have from buyers leaving SS.

cthoman · « **Reply #55 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:36 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:34

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:31
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

I thought it was positive news. It's nice to see Fotolia move things in the other direction for a change. I have no reason to be negative about it because it has yet to impact me (if it ever does). When I see the needle moving, then I'll pivot to change with the market. Until then, there really isn't much use to worrying about it. I've got enough on my plate already.
Why do you think it's positive news? Do you believe they'll bring in a lot of customers that would never have bought stock images without them entering the marketplace? They would need to bring in a lot of new customers (not just new customers but new customers that wouldn't have gone with SS) to offset the losses that you'll have from buyers leaving SS.

paying more = positive news

Everything else is just speculation.

tickstock · « **Reply #56 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:40 »

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:36

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:34
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:31
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

I thought it was positive news. It's nice to see Fotolia move things in the other direction for a change. I have no reason to be negative about it because it has yet to impact me (if it ever does). When I see the needle moving, then I'll pivot to change with the market. Until then, there really isn't much use to worrying about it. I've got enough on my plate already.
Why do you think it's positive news? Do you believe they'll bring in a lot of customers that would never have bought stock images without them entering the marketplace? They would need to bring in a lot of new customers (not just new customers but new customers that wouldn't have gone with SS) to offset the losses that you'll have from buyers leaving SS.

paying more = positive news

Everything else is just speculation.

They aren't paying more though. True there is a higher royalty rate for some things but it's on lower priced images. Royalty rate and prices are much lower if you are exclusive with Fotolia. Subs pay the same rate. If they convert buyers from SS you'll get less money for every type of sale until you sell 1,000,000 images and even then you'll still get substantially less than you would for On Demand sales at SS.

photominer · « **Reply #57 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:51 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:40

They aren't paying more though. True there is a higher royalty rate for some things but it's on lower priced images. It's much lower if you are exclusive with Fotolia. Subs pay the same rate. If they convert buyers from SS you'll get less money for every type of sale until you sell 1,000,000 images and even then you'll still get substantially less than you would for On Demand sales at SS.

At the end of the day it is still much better than istock (perhaps unless you're exclusive). I never got to the point where I trusted their math and they had some of the absolute lowest commissions I have every had on a stock agency.

I suspect they (AS) will pick up more users within their creative cloud than inducing people to switch from other agencies. I also suspect buyers that are already with SS are less likely to switch than are others from smaller collections or from sites that have had so many changes and problems for buyers.

In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.

tickstock · « **Reply #58 on:** June 18, 2015, 13:55 »

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51

In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.

I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

cthoman · « **Reply #59 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:02 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:40

Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:36
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:34
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 13:31
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:45
Quote from: cthoman on June 18, 2015, 12:43
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 12:01
Yes we'll see but it's a fact that any buyer that converts from SS to Adobe is going to result in a substantial loss of revenue for you.

What can't cause a substantial loss in revenue these days? You can probably just add this to the long list. Yay! Positivity!
There are some people that are positive about this but I think that's just because they don't understand it.

I thought it was positive news. It's nice to see Fotolia move things in the other direction for a change. I have no reason to be negative about it because it has yet to impact me (if it ever does). When I see the needle moving, then I'll pivot to change with the market. Until then, there really isn't much use to worrying about it. I've got enough on my plate already.
Why do you think it's positive news? Do you believe they'll bring in a lot of customers that would never have bought stock images without them entering the marketplace? They would need to bring in a lot of new customers (not just new customers but new customers that wouldn't have gone with SS) to offset the losses that you'll have from buyers leaving SS.

paying more = positive news

Everything else is just speculation.
They aren't paying more though. True there is a higher royalty rate for some things but it's on lower priced images. Royalty rate and prices are much lower if you are exclusive with Fotolia. Subs pay the same rate. If they convert buyers from SS you'll get less money for every type of sale until you sell 1,000,000 images and even then you'll still get substantially less than you would for On Demand sales at SS.

I don't get to vote for the king, so I'll either make money or have to move on to another kingdom. Fotolia is about as relevant as Crestock for me, so they have a lot of usurping to do.

photominer · « **Reply #60 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:05 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:55

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51
In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.
I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

I don't think that scenario is most likely. So yes.

edit: and still, even if you were right, its better than istock.

tickstock · « **Reply #61 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:13 »

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:05

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:55
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51
In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.
I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

I don't think that scenario is most likely. So yes.

edit: and still, even if you were right, its better than istock.

The losses on SS will by far outweigh any gains from iStock. Check out the royalties paid and compare what happens when you lose one sale on SS to Adobe. For many contributors it's a 20 to 70% loss.

photominer · « **Reply #62 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:19 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:13

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:05
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:55
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51
In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.
I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

I don't think that scenario is most likely. So yes.

edit: and still, even if you were right, its better than istock.
The losses on SS will by far outweigh any gains from iStock. Check out the royalties paid and compare what happens when you lose one sale on SS to Adobe. For many contributors it's a 20 to 70% loss.

So you keep saying for a theoretical lost sale. Its certainly possible. Likely though? Time will tell. Personally, I don't think it's likely. Different sites, different offerings, different customers. Every contributor is smart enough to make their own decisions about whether its a good idea to increase sales however they think that they can. I don't think it will affect SS sales for the vast majority, then again, its a guess on my part.

pancaketom · « **Reply #63 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:21 »

I'll be more positive when there is more (or anything?) to be positive about.

On the other hand, I am a bit like Arena Creative - except with much less work over the last 5 years and much much less income. Luckily it doesn't take much to support me in the manner I am accustomed to. I think if one continues to keep at this the $ return will only go down slowly (unless you were wildly successful in the past in which case the slide will be faster - but won't end up as low).

There are all sorts of cool new things you can do with digital imaging and there are some new options for selling that are promising if you can work them. Hopefully the AS deal will not be a net negative, although I don't think anything from FT has been positive in ages (except maybe some backsteps from really really negative things). Anyway for me any sale lost to AS from anywhere other than FT is a 100% loss.

We shall see. My best guess is that things will get worse, but they won't get really really worse and it will happen slowly.

tickstock · « **Reply #64 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:31 »

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:19

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:13
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:05
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:55
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51
In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.
I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

I don't think that scenario is most likely. So yes.

edit: and still, even if you were right, its better than istock.
The losses on SS will by far outweigh any gains from iStock. Check out the royalties paid and compare what happens when you lose one sale on SS to Adobe. For many contributors it's a 20 to 70% loss.
So you keep saying for a theoretical lost sale. Its certainly possible. Likely though? Time will tell. Personally, I don't think it's likely. Different sites, different offerings, different customers. Every contributor is smart enough to make their own decisions about whether its a good idea to increase sales however they think that they can. I don't think it will affect SS sales for the vast majority, then again, its a guess on my part.

There's no doubt that there will be lost sales it's just how much and how many customers that would never have bought stock are now doing it that matters. Probably a vast majority of buyers that get a yearly subscription use photoshop that's going to put a lot of pressure on SS to retain them. Adobe made the pricing exactly the same as SS, coincidence? They both offer roughly the same images and fotolia can claim some percentage of exclusive images.

cthoman · « **Reply #65 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:43 »

Nobody needs to worry. I've defeated all the windmills.

photominer · « **Reply #66 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:43 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:31

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:19
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:13
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 14:05
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 13:55
Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 13:51
In any event, it's a positive step from an agency that definitely needed to do something more to compete. That they haven't further punished artists while doing it is a plus.
I wouldn't say in any event, it seems the most likely event will be a substantial conversion of higher paying sales at SS to lower paying ones at Adobe. Is that still a positive?

I don't think that scenario is most likely. So yes.

edit: and still, even if you were right, its better than istock.
The losses on SS will by far outweigh any gains from iStock. Check out the royalties paid and compare what happens when you lose one sale on SS to Adobe. For many contributors it's a 20 to 70% loss.
So you keep saying for a theoretical lost sale. Its certainly possible. Likely though? Time will tell. Personally, I don't think it's likely. Different sites, different offerings, different customers. Every contributor is smart enough to make their own decisions about whether its a good idea to increase sales however they think that they can. I don't think it will affect SS sales for the vast majority, then again, its a guess on my part.
There's no doubt that there will be lost sales it's just how much and how many customers that would never have bought stock are now doing it that matters. Probably a vast majority of buyers that get a yearly subscription use photoshop that's going to put a lot of pressure on SS to retain them. Adobe made the pricing exactly the same as SS, coincidence? They both offer roughly the same images and fotolia can claim some percentage of exclusive images.

There is doubt. Lots of it. And if they've never purchased stock before as you say, then there is nothing for SS to retain is there? Can't lose ehat they never had.

This is all conjecture. Some contributors will very likely lose sales if they have the same pictures on both sites. Others will not. Unless you have some sales data to support any of this (which should be impossible so early in the game) it's really just opinion, not fact. Will some buyers switch from other agencies? Probably. I still think they'll come from other agencies that can't really compete as well as SS can. And I have no doubt if SS is worried about this they will have something rolled out soon. Everyone knew AS was coming sooner or later and could very well guess what the terms would be. Time will tell. It'll be interesting to watch the heavyweights battle it out.

ultimagina · « **Reply #67 on:** June 18, 2015, 14:59 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:31

There's no doubt

I envy you! Having no doubts! You must be a happy person!

Unfortunately, you only speculate based on unproven assumptions.
The critical aspect you neglect is the type of customers AS will discover or convert.
The ratio between the offered packages is the decisive factor for the future average AS RPD.

I am personally happy to see you staying loyal and defending the iStock exclusivity, instead of competing with me

tickstock · « **Reply #68 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:12 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on June 18, 2015, 14:59

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 14:31
There's no doubt

I envy you! Having no doubts! You must be a happy person!

Unfortunately, you only speculate based on unproven assumptions.
The critical aspect you neglect is the type of customers AS will discover or convert.
The ratio between the offered packages is the decisive factor for the future average AS RPD.

I am personally happy to see you staying loyal and defending the iStock exclusivity, instead of competing with me

I'm surprised you can disagree with what I'm saying. I'm saying there will be some buyers who choose to go to Adobe Stock, that doesn't seem very controversial, look at the stock price it didn't get hammered when this was first announced and when it was implemented because investors are worried Adobe Stock will get only brand new customers. I'm saying those buyers that do move will earn you less money for like sales (subs, on demand, single sales), that's a fact, you can look it up and compare for yourself. What I think we can disagree on is how many customers will be brought into Adobe Stock that would not have been customers at other sites, that is a much harder thing to predict. I think it will be a low number, much much lower than the amount converted from other sites and specifically SS but again we can disagree about that point. Time will tell. About the ratio of packages I would expect buyers that move from SS to Adobe to buy those packages in the same ratio they would when they were at SS, why not? And each of those packages will pay the vast majority of contributors less than they would have had.

photominer · « **Reply #69 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:22 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:12

I'm surprised you can disagree with what I'm saying. I'm saying there will be some buyers who choose to go to Adobe Stock, that doesn't seem very controversial, look at the stock price it didn't get hammered when this was first announced and when it was implemented because investors are worried Adobe Stock will get only brand new customers. I'm saying those buyers that do move will earn you less money for like sales (subs, on demand, single sales), that's a fact, you can look it up and compare for yourself. What I think we can disagree on is how many customers will be brought into Adobe Stock that would not have been customers at other sites, that is a much harder thing to predict. I think it will be a low number, much much lower than the amount converted from other sites and specifically SS but again we can disagree about that point. Time will tell. About the ratio of packages I would expect buyers that move from SS to Adobe to buy those packages in the same ratio they would when they were at SS, why not? And each of those packages will pay the vast majority of contributors less than they would have had.

I think this is correct in the main. I just disagree that the impact will be more at SS than istock. Why quit a stock leader when you can dump the site(s) that treat both customers and contributors the worst. I suspect that if AS takes off, it will be the finally nail in the coffin (or stake through the heart) of what was once a great company. But yes, time will tell.

tickstock · « **Reply #70 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:29 »

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 15:22

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:12
I'm surprised you can disagree with what I'm saying. I'm saying there will be some buyers who choose to go to Adobe Stock, that doesn't seem very controversial, look at the stock price it didn't get hammered when this was first announced and when it was implemented because investors are worried Adobe Stock will get only brand new customers. I'm saying those buyers that do move will earn you less money for like sales (subs, on demand, single sales), that's a fact, you can look it up and compare for yourself. What I think we can disagree on is how many customers will be brought into Adobe Stock that would not have been customers at other sites, that is a much harder thing to predict. I think it will be a low number, much much lower than the amount converted from other sites and specifically SS but again we can disagree about that point. Time will tell. About the ratio of packages I would expect buyers that move from SS to Adobe to buy those packages in the same ratio they would when they were at SS, why not? And each of those packages will pay the vast majority of contributors less than they would have had.
I think this is correct in the main. I just disagree that the impact will be more at SS than istock. Why quit a stock leader when you can dump the site(s) that treat both customers and contributors the worst. I suspect that if AS takes off, it will be the finally nail in the coffin (or stake through the heart) of what was once a great company. But yes, time will tell.

iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

pancaketom · « **Reply #71 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:50 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:29

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 15:22
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:12
I'm surprised you can disagree with what I'm saying. I'm saying there will be some buyers who choose to go to Adobe Stock, that doesn't seem very controversial, look at the stock price it didn't get hammered when this was first announced and when it was implemented because investors are worried Adobe Stock will get only brand new customers. I'm saying those buyers that do move will earn you less money for like sales (subs, on demand, single sales), that's a fact, you can look it up and compare for yourself. What I think we can disagree on is how many customers will be brought into Adobe Stock that would not have been customers at other sites, that is a much harder thing to predict. I think it will be a low number, much much lower than the amount converted from other sites and specifically SS but again we can disagree about that point. Time will tell. About the ratio of packages I would expect buyers that move from SS to Adobe to buy those packages in the same ratio they would when they were at SS, why not? And each of those packages will pay the vast majority of contributors less than they would have had.
I think this is correct in the main. I just disagree that the impact will be more at SS than istock. Why quit a stock leader when you can dump the site(s) that treat both customers and contributors the worst. I suspect that if AS takes off, it will be the finally nail in the coffin (or stake through the heart) of what was once a great company. But yes, time will tell.
iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

Adobe has SIMILAR content to SS and IS and everywhere else. There is a lot of overlap, but between exclusivity, reviewing differences, and people not having work at various sites for various reasons they are not the same content. With the size of the image libraries the quality of the search is probably more important than the actual images for most users though.

photominer · « **Reply #72 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:53 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:29

iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

It will definitely be interesting to watch. If Adobe can make it easy for buyers to buy, use and manage their stuff, they might have a shot at changing the game a little. In the meantime, anything that increases sales and puts more money in a contributor's pocket is a net good thing. There are as many types of buyers as there are subjects in the libraries, so it would be interesting to see how many are Adobe users already and whether that will have any affect at all on other agencies.

(My prediction is not much at all. Lets find out in a year who is closer to the mark.)

tickstock · « **Reply #73 on:** June 18, 2015, 15:57 »

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 15:53

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:29
iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

It will definitely be interesting to watch. If Adobe can make it easy for buyers to buy, use and manage their stuff, they might have a shot at changing the game a little. In the meantime, anything that increases sales and puts more money in a contributor's pocket is a net good thing. There are as many types of buyers as there are subjects in the libraries, so it would be interesting to see how many are Adobe users already and whether that will have any affect at all on other agencies.

(My prediction is not much at all. Lets find out in a year who is closer to the mark.)

I don't think it's a net plus though, that's my main argument. I also don't think we'll have to wait a year. SS will release earnings and talk about what's going on in a month and a half so there should be some insight by then. The bigger thing is that the busy season is coming up in a couple months so we'll probably see SS announce something new before then or keep doing business as usual if it isn't affecting them. Either way in 3 months I think we'll have a good idea of what the impact will be.

photominer · « **Reply #74 on:** June 18, 2015, 16:12 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:57

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 15:53
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:29
iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

It will definitely be interesting to watch. If Adobe can make it easy for buyers to buy, use and manage their stuff, they might have a shot at changing the game a little. In the meantime, anything that increases sales and puts more money in a contributor's pocket is a net good thing. There are as many types of buyers as there are subjects in the libraries, so it would be interesting to see how many are Adobe users already and whether that will have any affect at all on other agencies.

(My prediction is not much at all. Lets find out in a year who is closer to the mark.)
I don't think it's a net plus though, that's my main argument. I also don't think we'll have to wait a year. SS will release earnings and talk about what's going on in a month and a half so there should be some insight by then. The bigger thing is that the busy season is coming up in a couple months so we'll probably see SS announce something new before then or keep doing business as usual if it isn't affecting them. Either way in 3 months I think we'll have a good idea of what the impact will be.

Fair enough, although SS stock going up or down has never impacted my earnings in either direction. So I'm not sure that's a relevant measure for contributors, although people seem to like hashing them over every time something gets reported.

And as far as net plus or minus goes, its relative. Some will see it and some won't. The contributors are as varied as the buyers. So blanket statements (guilty of them myself) aren't really practical or even realistic until some facts back them up.

ShadySue · « **Reply #75 on:** June 18, 2015, 16:42 »

Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:29

Quote from: photominer on June 18, 2015, 15:22
Quote from: tickstock on June 18, 2015, 15:12
I'm surprised you can disagree with what I'm saying. I'm saying there will be some buyers who choose to go to Adobe Stock, that doesn't seem very controversial, look at the stock price it didn't get hammered when this was first announced and when it was implemented because investors are worried Adobe Stock will get only brand new customers. I'm saying those buyers that do move will earn you less money for like sales (subs, on demand, single sales), that's a fact, you can look it up and compare for yourself. What I think we can disagree on is how many customers will be brought into Adobe Stock that would not have been customers at other sites, that is a much harder thing to predict. I think it will be a low number, much much lower than the amount converted from other sites and specifically SS but again we can disagree about that point. Time will tell. About the ratio of packages I would expect buyers that move from SS to Adobe to buy those packages in the same ratio they would when they were at SS, why not? And each of those packages will pay the vast majority of contributors less than they would have had.
I think this is correct in the main. I just disagree that the impact will be more at SS than istock. Why quit a stock leader when you can dump the site(s) that treat both customers and contributors the worst. I suspect that if AS takes off, it will be the finally nail in the coffin (or stake through the heart) of what was once a great company. But yes, time will tell.
iStock may lose Essentials subscription packages but SS could lose all their subs packages. Adobe has the same content as SS, Adobe is more convenient than SS since a subs buyer most likely already has photoshop and uses it regularly, the price is exactly the same as SS. I think having different content and cheaper pricing at iStock probably will result a smaller percentage loss of subscription packages, what does SS offer that Adobe doesn't have? That's going to be a tough question for them to answer. Inertia should keep them steady for a while but how will they keep customers when it's time to renew?

SS has shown itself to be more agile than iS over the past few years, so I'm sure we shall see.
I'm curious as to why Adobe chose Fotolia to partner with, but I guess we'll never know.

heywoody · « **Reply #76 on:** June 18, 2015, 17:05 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on June 18, 2015, 00:33

Once again the group extends its traditional warm welcome. Maybe we could learn something from someone who has actually bought images...... Sorry I was forgetting we know everything already

Yeah, it doesn't do any harm to point out some of the harsh realities but that can be done without stinking up the place with condescension

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #77 on:** June 18, 2015, 17:39 »

I didnt even make a tenner today, with 2900 photos.

cobalt · « **Reply #78 on:** June 18, 2015, 17:55 »

Quote from: ShadySue on June 18, 2015, 16:42

I'm curious as to why Adobe chose Fotolia to partner with, but I guess we'll never know.

That one is easy, fotolia and adobe have been working together very closely for many years. There have been many photoshop workshops, presentations, tutorials for adobe products together with fotolia. At least here in Germany, probably the rest of europe as well. So the close relationship has been visible for the artists here like forever.

I am more surprised it took them so long...

Keep in mind, that fotolia was and maybe still is, the dominant microstock agency in europe.

ShadySue · « **Reply #79 on:** June 18, 2015, 18:02 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2015, 17:55

Quote from: ShadySue on June 18, 2015, 16:42

I'm curious as to why Adobe chose Fotolia to partner with, but I guess we'll never know.

That one is easy, fotolia and adobe have been working together very closely for many years. There have been many photoshop workshops, presentations, tutorials for adobe products together with fotolia. At least here in Germany, probably the rest of europe as well. So the close relationship has been visible for the artists here like forever.

I am more surprised it took them so long...

Keep in mind, that fotolia was and maybe still is, the dominant microstock agency in europe.

Oh, right, thanks. I had no idea about the collaboration.

Hongover · « **Reply #80 on:** June 18, 2015, 18:05 »

Quote from: Holmes on June 18, 2015, 12:57

Hongover -- thanks for your post and thoughts. and welcome to the site. as you can see, there are bitter members that are always ready to jump on a newbie. It happened to me. You appear to have thick skin which is good. It is unfortunate that some here feel being rude, arrogant and hateful is acceptable. but cyberbullies are just a reality i guess.

Thanks for the welcome. I can't believe this thread is blowing up; can't even keep track of all the post anymore.

I'm not too concerned about it. I can understand where some of them are coming from. It's just the natural reaction of anyone who has had a lot of experience vs someone who is relatively new to the field (even though I'm not that new). I've been through it myself, but learned to open my mind because I'm working with two 18 year old brilliant kids who didn't even graduate high school.

I have no reason to be bogged down by anything. My mind is clear and that's an advantage over anyone mired in bitterness & negativity. I didn't mean to come off as condescending, so if I came of as, my apologies. I think it's important to have this conversation.

I'll still be here. Probably won't be as vocal, but I'll still share my experience to those willing to listen.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #81 on:** June 18, 2015, 20:08 »

Adobe bought Fotolia so its not really a "partnership"

SAN JOSE, Calif. — Jan. 28, 2015 — Adobe (Nasdaq:ADBE) has completed its acquisition of privately held Fotolia, a leading marketplace for stock content. Adobe announced its intent to purchase Fotolia in December 2014 and the acquisition cements Creative Cloud’s role as a vibrant market for creatives to buy and sell assets and services as well as showcase their talent to a worldwide audience. Work will now begin on integrating Fotolia into Adobe Creative Cloud. This will provide current and future Creative Cloud members with the ability to access and purchase over 35 million images and videos, significantly simplifying and accelerating the design process. Adobe also plans to continue to operate Fotolia as a standalone stock service, accessible to anyone.

Rose Tinted Glasses · « **Reply #82 on:** June 18, 2015, 20:16 »

This move by Adobe is brilliant but very bad news for the future of stock photography and it's suppliers.

WeatherENG · « **Reply #83 on:** June 19, 2015, 09:41 »

Some optimism sure would be nice in face of all this doom and gloom, it's just non-stop bad news since about mid-April.

It's been a terrible slow week on my end, clip views ok but sales? I do this full time now after working in TV news, 24,000 clips and my income this week?, this is before taxes, gas, expenses while shooting new content? $100.44, after expenses I paid to come to work.

Oh wait! this thread is about optimism

M
http://www.pond5.com/artist/WeatherENG

PeterChigmaroff · « **Reply #84 on:** June 19, 2015, 10:43 »

The reason a lot of people aren't optimistic is that there isn't that much to be optimistic about.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #85 on:** June 19, 2015, 13:24 »

Quote from: Rose Tinted Glasses on June 18, 2015, 20:16

This move by Adobe is brilliant but very bad news for the future of stock photography and it's suppliers.

Are you sure the glasses you are wearing are not coal black

stockastic · « **Reply #86 on:** June 19, 2015, 14:15 »

At this point, it's about finding and pursuing niches that will only continue to shrink and vanish - for payments that are already ridiculously low, and will never increase. Draw your own conclusions, but I think that unless you have a specialty you know how to exploit, there's no longer any point in doing microstock.

Yes, there's always a new or better way to shoot a subject, with a different creative spin. But without any sort of 'curation' by the agency, new and better work doesn't go to the top of the search. And at 35 cents per licensed use, it's pretty hard to get motivated.

I think a lot of us are just waiting for one of the big agencies to say "this isn't working any longer and we need to change". I have no idea where it would go after that.

Hongover · « **Reply #87 on:** June 19, 2015, 17:42 »

Quote from: stockastic on June 19, 2015, 14:15

At this point, it's about finding and pursuing niches that will only continue to shrink and vanish - for payments that are already ridiculously low, and will never increase. Draw your own conclusions, but I think that unless you have a specialty you know how to exploit, there's no longer any point in doing microstock.

Yes, there's always a new or better way to shoot a subject, with a different creative spin. But without any sort of 'curation' by the agency, new and better work doesn't go to the top of the search. And at 35 cents per licensed use, it's pretty hard to get motivated.

I think a lot of us are just waiting for one of the big agencies to say "this isn't working any longer and we need to change". I have no idea where it would go after that.

I'm pretty sure the prices will never increase unless 99% of the photos out there disappear from existence. It's not just Microstock, it's every industry. Look at the app market...people are so used to getting things for free that very few people are willing to pay for apps. In App Purchases has fallen 30% from March to June across the board. That's an even grimmer market.

Microstock is still above that and still a better market. I think at this point, it's more useful to find a niche than to shoot at everything with the 10,000th strawberry photo. SS is trying their hand at curation with OffSet, but it's impossible to get in without some reputation. For all we know OffSet could be doing poorly right now. I'm targeting niche markets and it's working out well for me. Take for instance, I recently upload a few images related to a government mandate and I've been getting a download almost every day.

To do just one thing is not going to make a big impact right now. Microstock photography is probably the most competitive field in the world...everyone has a camera. That's why I'm also doing vector art. Also started just testing out video so I can target a broader audience.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #88 on:** June 20, 2015, 04:30 »

Remember the annual survey? This is probably the best concrete evidence of how contributors are doing and you know what its not that bad.

Tryingmybest · « **Reply #89 on:** June 20, 2015, 11:36 »

Quote from: Hongover on June 17, 2015, 19:12

I just joined this site and all I see is doom and gloom. I'm a newbie photographer/vector artist and I think selling microstock is a great source of passive income. I would never do it full-time, but as a part time thing, it's pretty great....

Unfortunately, it is easier to destroy (complain) than it is to build (inspire). I too strive for optimism. My family depends on me for income. MS is becoming a bigger slice of that income. So I must be optimistic and open to opportunity or we'll lose our house and starve.

Peace.

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Author Topic: Some optimism would be nice (Read 15949 times)

Hongover

WeatherENG

marthamarks

WeatherENG

Hongover

memakephoto

Hongover

Hongover

Hongover

Hongover

Justanotherphotographer

photominer

photominer

photominer

photominer

ultimagina

photominer

photominer

photominer

Semmick Photo

Hongover

Rose Tinted Glasses

WeatherENG

Semmick Photo

Hongover

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