MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: panicAttack on June 22, 2015, 15:20
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Let, for example, say that you made series of your highest quality photos that you believe most or all RM (or even RF if you really want) agencies would accept and sell.
I understand few people want to tell their secrets and make him/herself more competitors but maybe there is someone out there.
Also, let say that those are makeup, beauty studio portraits (not usual isolated on white with microstockish screaming all over them).
I submit images to microstock agencies so I can't be exclusive anywhere, only image based exclusivity is an option.
I was thinking Alamy image exclusivity, or to send them to Corbis or Getty. Can I even sell there if I am not exclusive? Am i newbie or are those three best sales/earning wise?
Are there any specialized RM agencies for those kind of shoots?
Thank you for your time and excuse my English
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"Also, let say that those are makeup, beauty studio portraits (not usual isolated on white with microstockish screaming all over them)."
That doesn't sound particularly RM. there are tons like that on Stocksy, for example.
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That doesn't sound particularly RM. there are tons like that on Stocksy, for example.
Aren't there mostly retro/film filtered photos?
Also, why do you think makeup/cosmetics/beauty portraits are not for RM? There are plenty of them in corbis and getty. Do you think they doesn't sell?
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I thought Stocksy was macro just with microstock prices. Really that's the only difference between the two, if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices. You could always contact Offset, Corbis, and Getty and see what they say and choose the one you feel best about.
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if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices.
and that's why I opened this topic. That "somewhere" is my real question
What are my options?
You edited your post later, isn't offset artist exclusive?
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if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices.
and that's why I opened this topic. That "somewhere" is my real question
What are my options?
You edited your post later, isn't offset artist exclusive?
Nope, Getty and Offset aren't artist exclusive. Don't know what Corbis does. Offset isn't even image exclusive from what I understand.
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Also, let say that those are makeup, beauty studio portraits (not usual isolated on white with microstockish screaming all over them).
Those will do a lot better in Microstock.
> generic subject + high quality + high possible demand + low speciality + lots of existing competition = Microstock
> special subject + high quality + possibly low OR high demand + highly special subject + less existing competition = Macrostock
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Those will do a lot better in Microstock.
> generic subject + high quality + high possible demand + low speciality + lots of existing competition = Microstock
> special subject + high quality + possibly low OR high demand + highly special subject + less existing competition = Macrostock
thank you, but do you believe it is possible to have special subject in beauty portraits?
Nope, Getty and Offset aren't artist exclusive. Don't know what Corbis does. Offset isn't even image exclusive from what I understand.
Thanks tickstock, didn't know that.
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Without seeing any examples it is hard to say, but Beauty/glamour is usally a typical domain of microstock, simply because lots of models and photographers enjoy creating them. It is not a rare subject.
Like others have said, macro is for images that cannot be sold thousands of times because they are too niche or too specialized. The higher price is there to justify producing them at all.
If a file can be usable for many designers it will probably make a lot more money on the micros.
Also keep in mind that these days the macros also sell their content for micro prices and on places like getty you will have many sales for less than one dollar. The prices on their websites are just "list prices" what the (corprorate) customer usually pays, is much,much less.
You could try placing them on 500pix premiere. It is open to everyone, pays 70% and has macro pricing.
ETA: just because a file is RM, doesnīt mean it will be sold for a high price. RM sales can be much lower than microstock returns. There is no minimum price fixed.
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Why should macro be for images that won't sell a lot? It should be for images you think demand a higher price whether that's because it was expensive to produce, it's rare, it's really good, or whatever... If you think your images deserve that higher price then go ahead and try for it.
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But macro does not automatically give you higher returns for your files.
Especially if you look at how sales develop over several years, the returns from the micros with all their extended licenses etc.. plus the fact that they usually accept the full series, instead of 2 from 10 , means you will make a lot more money.
also on the micros you can spread the upload over a longer time and process your series with different styles, or the latest visual trend. On macro you have to present the full series in one go, so the chosen files all get the same time stamp and quickly disappear into oblivion, because the macros also get a huge number of files.
So the earning opportunities on the micros are usually better if it is a series that can be useful for many projects..
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I thought Stocksy was macro just with microstock prices. Really that's the only difference between the two, if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices. You could always contact Offset, Corbis, and Getty and see what they say and choose the one you feel best about.
They didn't ask about prices. They asked about RM. Stocksy is RF.
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I thought Stocksy was macro just with microstock prices. Really that's the only difference between the two, if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices. You could always contact Offset, Corbis, and Getty and see what they say and choose the one you feel best about.
They didn't ask about prices. They asked about RM. Stocksy is RF.
RF can be macro as well. I thought the question was more about higher prices rather than RM or RF.
"Let, for example, say that you made series of your highest quality photos that you believe most or all RM (or even RF if you really want) agencies would accept and sell."
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Well the list price does not tell you anything about the actual returns you will make, does it??
I have files on macro, micro and also RM macro. The list prices are not a good guideline to determine where to put the files.
Macro list prices on websites are an illusion, just like the low sub prices are misleading about how much money you can make at a site.
But you need experience to make the right decision and in all cases the one thing that remains true is:
if you donīt upload very,very regularly, your income will die. There simply is too much competition at all agencies.
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Are you saying your macro sales average less than your micro sales? Mine don't, macro has a much higher RPD. Sure you might have some low sales mixed in but the average is much higher.
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The overall return for a whole series over several years will always be higher on micro instead of macro. the individual average download might be higher on macro but the total return for the whole series isnīt.
The biggest problem is the time stamp. On macro everything goes in at once, on the micros you can spread the series over several years and process all files from a series with different styles. So the series will always be fresh.
If you upload everything at the exact same time, the returns might be lower on micro, because so many files are uploaded, it disappears very fast. But who would be so stupid to upload all the files at once???
The individual higher download doesnīt mean anything if the series only sells 3 times a year instead of 200 times.
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The overall return for a whole series over several years will always be higher on micro instead of macro...
The individual higher download doesnīt mean anything if the series only sells 3 times a year instead of 200 times.
It depends what your average sale price is, say Getty is $50 and micro is 70 cents then you'll do $150 on macro $140 on micro. There are images that do well on macro, much better than they would do on micro and images that will do much better on micro. A blanket statement that the overall return "will always be higher on micro" is false.
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I thought Stocksy was macro just with microstock prices. Really that's the only difference between the two, if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices. You could always contact Offset, Corbis, and Getty and see what they say and choose the one you feel best about.
They didn't ask about prices. They asked about RM. Stocksy is RF.
RF can be macro as well. I thought the question was more about higher prices rather than RM or RF.
"Let, for example, say that you made series of your highest quality photos that you believe most or all RM (or even RF if you really want) agencies would accept and sell."
They also didn't ask about micro or macro. In fact they could have been a lot clearer with the query.
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I thought Stocksy was macro just with microstock prices. Really that's the only difference between the two, if you think you can ask for higher prices go somewhere that licenses your work for higher prices. You could always contact Offset, Corbis, and Getty and see what they say and choose the one you feel best about.
They didn't ask about prices. They asked about RM. Stocksy is RF.
RF can be macro as well. I thought the question was more about higher prices rather than RM or RF.
"Let, for example, say that you made series of your highest quality photos that you believe most or all RM (or even RF if you really want) agencies would accept and sell."
They also didn't ask about micro or macro. In fact they could have been a lot clearer with the query.
That's true, I was assuming they wanted somewhere more expensive.
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Yes, there are images that do much better on macro. But you need a lot of experience to identify them.
Also macro usually means working with many macro agencies. If you are getty exclusive your files get spread allover corbis,masterfile etc...that can help, because they might reach different groups of people looking for nche content.
But if you have a large series, micro has much better options and puts you completely in control.
But obviously, people can do what they want. If some people believe that putting everything RM on macro is best for them, let them do it.
I am only interested in total returns.
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But obviously, people can do what they want. If some people believe that putting everything RM on macro is best for them, let them do it.
I am only interested in total returns.
The OP is asking about a set of images they believe are better than their other work, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Some work is better suited for licensing at higher amounts and some work is better suited for selling at micro amounts. Total returns are better for some images at one price and some images at another.
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But obviously, people can do what they want. If some people believe that putting everything RM on macro is best for them, let them do it.
I am only interested in total returns.
The OP is asking about a set of images they believe are better than their other work, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Some work is better suited for licensing at higher amounts and some work is better suited for selling at micro amounts. Total returns are better for some images at one price and some images at another.
They didn't ask about returns. They may want RM control, although they did mention RF as well. I guess we can infer that they want more money, but it's likely they're like other "glamour, makeup, etc." portraits. Not much commercial use, even though you spent a lot of time/money.
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Are there any specialized RM agencies for those kind of shoots?
Blend Images, for instance, they're with Getty.
But .. if you seriously feel that those photos are top notch quality you could try selling them as Fine Art to art galleries or art exhibitions, or to fashion magazines that could be interested in that specific style/niche.
if the material is big enough you could also make a Fine Art book out of it.
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First, I am a single person. :D
I was talking about expected income per for example 15 or 25 images which are assumed that will get approved on any macro or micro stock selling site. They are not some angry, happy, cheerful, pensive woman on white that are usually seen on micro sites. I know it's hard to tell anything without pictures but if I had to compare them with something already online it would be something like this:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/natural-beauty-portrait-of-young-brunette-high-res-stock-photography/451807293 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/natural-beauty-portrait-of-young-brunette-high-res-stock-photography/451807293)
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/woman-smiling-portrait-close-up-high-res-stock-photography/sb10068434b-001 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/woman-smiling-portrait-close-up-high-res-stock-photography/sb10068434b-001)
so it is some kind of different feel/lighting/model/post processing then classic microstock in those photos.
And all of you were helpful, I am not macro stocker, but wanted to know and learned from your experience that those 100-200 sales on macro sites are just rare as 100$ single sale on for example SS.
However I do see many of makeup/beauty shots on Getty, Corbis etc.
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Those will do a lot better in Microstock.
> generic subject + high quality + high possible demand + low speciality + lots of existing competition = Microstock
> special subject + high quality + possibly low OR high demand + highly special subject + less existing competition = Macrostock
thank you, but do you believe it is possible to have special subject in beauty portraits?
Nope.
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"However I do see many of makeup/beauty shots on Getty, Corbis etc."
... Shutterstock, iStock, etc... Like I said, these may be different and new and high quality for you, but there are plenty of images like those already out there, which reduces the price you're going to be able to ask.
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Thank you for adding examples. The images you posted are not rare, not on macro, not on micro.
The key to success in both worlds is to keep uploading into this niche if you decide this is the theme for you. Then the customers will remember your portfolio as a specialist for that niche and bookmark you.
You can do this on either macro or micro agencies, or you can go exclusive with one place, but maybe when you are starting out exclusivity is not a good option.
But uploading regularly, at least every month, is always the most important.
Shoot.Upload.Repeat. Welcome to stock :)
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Nope.
In what type of photography you believe there can be special subjects? Landscapes?
Just to show you are very wrong, if you are shooting for example cancer/dying patients or even person with some disfigurement faces (accidents or even acid attacks) and to do it in makeup/beauty style as some kind of message about inner beauty it is very special and specific subject.
Doesn't mean I have those, just letting you know. ;)
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Thank you for adding examples. The images you posted are not rare, not on macro, not on micro.
The key to success in both worlds is to keep uploading into this niche if you decide this is the theme for you. Then the customers will remember your portfolio as a specialist for that niche and bookmark you.
You can do this on either macro or micro agencies, or you can go exclusive with one place, but maybe when you are starting out exclusivity is not a good option.
But uploading regularly, at least every month, is always the most important.
Shoot.Upload.Repeat. Welcome to stock :)
Oh, thank you but I am not new in stock (microstock), I'm doing it for several years (photos and vectors) in it is my highest household income.
I was just putting example of trying to do step forward (if it is) in terms of earning, or atleast earning per sale.
I know that even for high quality beauty shots series of 20ish photos it's very hard for last few years to earn more then 2-3 hundreds dollars in a period of about a year.
In my way it is something like that shoot(few hours for whole shoot), post processing (few weeks for whole series of about 200 photos, very long period), keyword and upload (one day per week only for that)
Exclusivity is not an options, only image based.
Thank you
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How much do you have to lose if this series doesn't sell? I think try it out, if it gets you accepted into a macro site you'll have opportunities later to add different content and test it some more.
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How much do you have to lose if this series doesn't sell?
You are right about that.
Can same RM photo be presented on Getty, Alamy, Corbis and for example Offset and what are commission percentage for photographers on those four agencies?
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Alamy 50%, Getty 40% (30% for some), Offset 30%, Corbis not sure (depends on type). Alamy and Offset nonexclusive, Getty image exclusive, Corbis depends. Offset is RF and nonexclusive but I don't think you are allowed to contribute to the microstock sites, so it's not completely nonexclusive.
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Nope.
In what type of photography you believe there can be special subjects? Landscapes?
Doesn't mean I have those, just letting you know. ;)
I think the most niches for RM you will find within concepts and production value. Especially regarding the subject of organic or small businesses. There are still huge gaps. Especially the not so generic and more stylish or realistic material is what sells for me on RM. I suggest you to do database research? There are currently 1855486 beauty Portrait subjects on the Agencies (exact number). In comparison, there are only 1324 for the subject of "Carpenter Team". Once uploaded, the comparative index of those two and the sales numbers suggest that your chances to sell a shot of a team of Carpenters is about 187 times higher than to sell a beauty Portrait. Obviously, much of those images - regarding both set of keywords - is irrelevant or low quality, but that affects both subjects. Too, the database scanning oftenly brings misleading results, I just investigated about two minutes and further research would be needed, but.....I do not want to disappoint you and, obviously, I am not always right - maybe you can be successful with this -, but I am not so sure if you really have much actual experience on the RM market....
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Alamy 50%, Getty 40% (30% for some), Offset 30%, Corbis not sure (depends on type). Alamy and Offset nonexclusive, Getty image exclusive, Corbis depends. Offset is RF and nonexclusive but I don't think you are allowed to contribute to the microstock sites, so it's not completely nonexclusive.
You were very helpful, thanks. I thought Getty was in 20% range, looks like it's not.
Yes, Offset is something different.
@toro thank you also. There is always niche even in beauty shots, but it's harder to find and create it. You are right about comparison of beauty and carpenter subject in terms of supply, but demand for those images is another story.
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getty is 20% for rf.
you can have the same files on several macro agencies, but you need a distributor to do it for you, I donīt know if single artists can also have their own distribution deal. but the macro agencies all sublicense their content to each other. So you need to talk to several, ask about their contracts and then sign up with the agency that promises you the widest exposure.
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getty is 20% for rf.
you can have the same files on several macro agencies, but you need a distributor to do it for you, I donīt know if single artists can also have their own distribution deal. but the macro agencies all sublicense their content to each other. So you need to talk to several, ask about their contracts and then sign up with the agency that promises you the widest exposure.
Can you say what royalty rate a distribution deal pays?
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getty is 20% for rf.
you can have the same files on several macro agencies, but you need a distributor to do it for you, I donīt know if single artists can also have their own distribution deal. but the macro agencies all sublicense their content to each other. So you need to talk to several, ask about their contracts and then sign up with the agency that promises you the widest exposure.
Can you say what royalty rate a distribution deal pays?
80% getty 20% distribution agency normally you get 50% from a distribution agency so it is about 10%, but this is only for Getty with other agencies, distribution agencies get better deals and Getty is not the agency most of the money comes in from my distribution agencies.
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getty is 20% for rf.
you can have the same files on several macro agencies, but you need a distributor to do it for you, I donīt know if single artists can also have their own distribution deal. but the macro agencies all sublicense their content to each other. So you need to talk to several, ask about their contracts and then sign up with the agency that promises you the widest exposure.
Can you say what royalty rate a distribution deal pays?
80% getty 20% distribution agency normally you get 50% from a distribution agency so it is about 10%, but this is only for Getty with other agencies, distribution agencies get better deals and Getty is not the agency most of the money comes in from my distribution agencies.
So you're happy with your distribution deal? Which company are you with? That's RF right.
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it depends on the company you work with. but I think usually it is around 50%. the interesting part is what kind of deals your distributor has with the different agencies.
you can of course try to get into 10 macros and distribute yourself, but I would imagine that to be more work.
macro is a huge, huge world. but everything moves slower. some companies only take new files two times a year, others allow their clients to pay after several months...it is very different.
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it depends on the company you work with. but I think usually it is around 50%. the interesting part is what kind of deas your distributor has with the different agencies.
you can of course try to get into 10 macros and distribute yourself, but I would imagine that to be more work.
That's what I was asking you, what royalty rate you get after the deals they strike with the agencies?
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I cannot disclose details of my own contract and they anyway have over 200 partners with individual deals.
you can also work with getty and they will sublicense your content everywhere. you get 20% of whatever getty receives, but I have no idea what agreements they have with corbis, masterfile etc...but many of my sales on getty came from partners.
but distribution is not automatic, the partners will pick and choose what they like, although some will mirror everything.
you really need to talk to your partner to understand their system. but there are many companies out there for macro work.
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I have always put my highest quality images on microstock, and (there are exceptions) but usually they make more sales to justify the extra time/investment spent on them. End of story. Works for me.