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Author Topic: Where would you upload very simple editorial pictures?  (Read 3414 times)

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« on: February 12, 2016, 13:10 »
0
For very basic type of editorial pictures that are mainly "snapshots" from travels where would you upload them and why? I found this portfolio in Alamy http://www.alamy.com/search.html?qt=jgx&imgt=0 and basically all portfolio seems to be "snapshot" type of pictures from holidays without model or property releases. Would you upload this type of material as RM to Alamy like in this example or to multiple microstock agencies? Portfolio size in this example is more than 100,000 what type of RPI would you think that contributor can realistically expect from this type of content?


ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 13:21 »
+1
One of the big sellers on Alamy has a career photojournalism background and doesn't ask for releases because of possible uses (Alamy requires releases to include sensitive use, though that is only stated in one place that I could find.)
Indeed, even if you had model releases, you couldn't get property releases for a lot of material which can be used editorially.
The uses are often in travel articles in magazines/newspapers, travel guides, educational textbooks etc.

« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 13:26 »
0
I am sure these type of picture have their needs in magazines/newspapers, travel guides, educational textbooks etc. like you mentioned. So in your opinion people who travel a lot and have access to this type of photojournalist type of pictures it should not go to microstock but instead as RM for example to Alamy? Would 1$ per image yearly be realistic expectation or is that too optimistic?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 13:38 »
+1
I am sure these type of picture have their needs in magazines/newspapers, travel guides, educational textbooks etc. like you mentioned. So in your opinion people who travel a lot and have access to this type of photojournalist type of pictures it should not go to microstock but instead as RM for example to Alamy? Would 1$ per image yearly be realistic expectation or is that too optimistic?
From my personal experience, that's optimistic, but a few large sales can skew the average upwards. I'm finding that sale prices are generally coming down on Alamy, because buyers are threatening to go to micros if they don't get good deals. You can opt out of some of the lower paying sales, like the UK newspaper scheme or certain distribution deals, but that will cut your sales, as these buyers firstly see the opted in files, and not all of the UKNS or distribution sales are low value. Also, if RM, these buyers should pay every time they use it. However, they sometimes need to be chased up via contacting Alamy for re-use payments. Still, you could get 25c from a micro sub and they could re-use the file forever.

Historically, iS did better than Alamy for me for editorial files (different files on both sites, RF vs RM, so apples and oranges). However, now that iStock is becoming mostly a cheap subs site, that is changing fast, especially with files uploaded in the past couple of years.

Others will need to give you comparisons with other micros.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 12:51 by ShadySue »

« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 13:41 »
+1
One of the big sellers on Alamy has a career photojournalism background and doesn't ask for releases because of possible uses (Alamy requires releases to include sensitive use, though that is only stated in one place that I could find.)
Indeed, even if you had model releases, you couldn't get property releases for a lot of material which can be used editorially.
The uses are often in travel articles in magazines/newspapers, travel guides, educational textbooks etc.

good advice , Sue. times have changed , it used to be that editorials do not require releases. now as you pointed out, even PR are required. i think so too, as some countries even insist you buy a permit to enable tourists to shoot (at a museam, for example) , and even that, there is a note to say you cannot use it for other than personal use.
still, there are lots of others places that is still free to shoot and used as editorial. but again, just because there is no sign saying you cannot, there could still be restrictions, eg. many arabic countries do not even allow you to point a camera in the direction of the presidential property , even from a distance.
in that sense, it is alot to remember . which is why it is good to have the editorial reviewer curate to approve or reject, as many of us are not informed that globally.


« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 13:44 »
+1
From my personal experience, that's optimistic, but a few large sales can skew the average upwards. I'm finding that sale prices are generally coming down on Alamy, because buyers are threatening to go to micros if they don't get good deals. You can opt out of some of the lower paying sales, like the UK newspaper scheme or certain distribution deals, but that will cut your sales, as these buyers firstly see the opted in files, and not all of the UKNS or distribution sales are low value. Also, if RM, these buyers should pay every time they use it. However, they sometimes need to be chased up via contacting Alamy for re-use payments. Still, you could get 25c from a micro sub and they could re-use the file forever.

Historically, iS did better than Alamy than me for editorial files (different files on both sites, RF vs RM, so apples and oranges). However, now that iStock is becoming mostly a cheap subs site, that is changing fast, especially with files uploaded in the past couple of years.

Others will need to give you comparisons with other micros.

re my red out to your point above,
but would it not profit the micro site to introduce a new editorial usage condition so both the agency and contributor profit from not letting the file be re-use forever , like you say???

forever is a long long long long time  8)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 13:49 »
+1
From my personal experience, that's optimistic, but a few large sales can skew the average upwards. I'm finding that sale prices are generally coming down on Alamy, because buyers are threatening to go to micros if they don't get good deals. You can opt out of some of the lower paying sales, like the UK newspaper scheme or certain distribution deals, but that will cut your sales, as these buyers firstly see the opted in files, and not all of the UKNS or distribution sales are low value. Also, if RM, these buyers should pay every time they use it. However, they sometimes need to be chased up via contacting Alamy for re-use payments. Still, you could get 25c from a micro sub and they could re-use the file forever.

Historically, iS did better than Alamy than me for editorial files (different files on both sites, RF vs RM, so apples and oranges). However, now that iStock is becoming mostly a cheap subs site, that is changing fast, especially with files uploaded in the past couple of years.

Others will need to give you comparisons with other micros.

re my red out to your point above,
but would it not profit the micro site to introduce a new editorial usage condition so both the agency and contributor profit from not letting the file be re-use forever , like you say???

forever is a long long long long time  8)

That would need policing, which the agencies are reluctant to do. Like I said in another post elsewhere, we gave up far too much with RF, IMO.
Still, why would you restrict editorial uses and not commercial?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 13:51 »
+1
One of the big sellers on Alamy has a career photojournalism background and doesn't ask for releases because of possible uses (Alamy requires releases to include sensitive use, though that is only stated in one place that I could find.)
Indeed, even if you had model releases, you couldn't get property releases for a lot of material which can be used editorially.
The uses are often in travel articles in magazines/newspapers, travel guides, educational textbooks etc.

good advice , Sue. times have changed , it used to be that editorials do not require releases. now as you pointed out, even PR are required. i think so too, as some countries even insist you buy a permit to enable tourists to shoot (at a museam, for example) , and even that, there is a note to say you cannot use it for other than personal use.
still, there are lots of others places that is still free to shoot and used as editorial. but again, just because there is no sign saying you cannot, there could still be restrictions, eg. many arabic countries do not even allow you to point a camera in the direction of the presidential property , even from a distance.
in that sense, it is alot to remember . which is why it is good to have the editorial reviewer curate to approve or reject, as many of us are not informed that globally.

I wasn't really thinking about that.
I was thinking about things like clothes, accessories, vehicles, backgrounds etc even out in public places. All the things you can't have in commerical use, but which add reality to an image (where in real life would everybody be wearing totally plain clothes etc?)

« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 14:42 »
+2
This photographer is pretty famous on Alamy for his snapshot style. They do sell but for a lot less now. But imagine the amount of work it takes to process and upload 100,000 pics!
It appears people with large portfolios on alamy seem to sell more pictures. I think $1 per picture per year for good portfolios is a good estimate, less for this kind of work. Alamy does sell for for larger fees, I often get sales for $150-300.

« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 12:30 »
0
"Still, you could get 25c from a micro sub and they could re-use the file forever.

Historically, iS did better than Alamy than me for editorial files (different files on both sites, RF vs RM, so apples and oranges). However, now that iStock is becoming mostly a cheap subs site, that is changing fast, especially with files uploaded in the past couple of years."

"But imagine the amount of work it takes to process and upload 100,000 pics!"

"Alamy does sell for for larger fees, I often get sales for $150-300."

This pretty much covers up topic. I guess it is better to not waste time processing and uploading this type of content in hope to get random 0.25$ from sub sales and waste even more time uploading them to all possible agencies. Some random sales of higher amount will make more sense. Thank you very much for great answers and help :)

authenticcreations

« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 14:14 »
0
Hello,

I have editorial on all agencies including Alamy.

I can tell you from my experience that i make editorial sales on Alamy. But most of them are are a little bit higher then micro sales. The editorial only on SS are doing much and much better then on Alamy. If i add also IS, DT and other micros .......

But this is my story. Perhaps it is because i am not living in the UK.

Mirco

authenticcreations

« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 14:27 »
0
Also i think you should be prepared for the future. Alamy's prices are much lower then years ago. They have to go lower to compete with other agencies. On the other hand agency like Shutterstock the editorial content is growing fast. Why a person would license a editorial photo for 150 dollars if he can get it for 3 dollars on Shutterstock. Alamy will need to go down with prices to keep going.

For commercial it is a different story since exclusivity can be a important part to have a unique product.

Mirco

« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 09:06 »
0
You need a release for SS and all the micro RF editorial. You don't need a release for Alamy RM. The End

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 09:20 »
+2
You need a release for SS and all the micro RF editorial. You don't need a release for Alamy RM. The End

You don't need releases for most iS editorial, though you need to show you have obtained permission (not a 'release') for 'ticketed venues', private homes etc.
Not having a release for Alamy RM (and having indicated such) won't protect you from legal proceedings if one was, in fact, needed.
To underline this, Alamy sent out an email, with a link to this blog, in December:
http://www.alamy.com/blog/photography-private-property?utm_campaign=221491_Tips%20for%20photographing%20on%20public%20property&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,4QWJ,12I733,DU6I,1
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 09:22 by ShadySue »

authenticcreations

« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 09:53 »
+3
You need a release for SS and all the micro RF editorial. You don't need a release for Alamy RM. The End

Why you spread this information when you are not sure what you are saying? There is absolute no release needed for editorial use only RF. Thats why it is editorial use only because you dont have a release. If you would have a release it is not editorial use only and you could sell it also commercially. I have over 6.000 photos with people and logos without release for sale on SS, IS, DT, 123RF, DP, 500px and Bigstock.

Mirco



 

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