Author Topic: Why you should never ever work with Wirestock (Read 3423 times)

ole999 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2022, 13:00 »

The bigget problem with services like WS is if they close down the business. Not that I think they will do - but what are the consequences? Will you still get royalties?

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2022, 13:20 »

Quote from: ole999 on July 06, 2022, 13:00

The bigget problem with services like WS is if they close down the business. Not that I think they will do - but what are the consequences? Will you still get royalties?

Good point. For me, too, this is the main reason why I keep my hands off Wirestock.

If Wirestock were to disappear from the market, I assume that the images would happily continue to be sold by the partner agencies.

Money and pictures are then lost.

derby · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2022, 15:11 »

I think that answer to "wirestock yes or no" is really simple.
If you approach microstock photography as a business the answer is absolutely NO
If you think this is a little passive income from your random photography production, in this case YES it could be good service and it's OK to pay for it.
Very simple, no need to calculate too much, it's not all about money and percentage, only about how do you treat your job

farbled · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2022, 15:16 »

Quote from: derby on July 06, 2022, 15:11

I think that answer to "wirestock yes or no" is really simple.
If you approach microstock photography as a business the answer is absolutely NO
If you think this is a little passive income from your random photography production, in this case YES it could be good service and it's OK to pay for it.
Very simple, no need to calculate too much, it's not all about money and percentage, only about how do you treat your job

And there are those of us that fit into neither category who weigh the pros and cons and decide accordingly. Oh and you don't have to pay for it if you choose not to.

cascoly · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2022, 18:25 »

Quote from: derby on July 06, 2022, 15:11

I think that answer to "wirestock yes or no" is really simple.
If you approach microstock photography as a business the answer is absolutely NO
If you think this is a little passive income from your random photography production, in this case YES it could be good service and it's OK to pay for it.
Very simple, no need to calculate too much, it's not all about money and percentage, only about how do you treat your job

overly simplistic -- if you're running a business and your concerns are "not all about money and percentage", you're not going to be in business very long! as a business i choose WS because they save my business time & energy & my net income is higher

Camillo · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2022, 21:07 »

Quote from: ribtoks on June 30, 2022, 11:46

Hello

A little rant from me for hearing too much about Wirestock: https://xpiksapp.com/blog/never-use-wirestock/

Let me know what are you thoughts! Do you think this is all wrong and actually WS is a good time investment?

I was there for a little while amd left once I found my images were being given away in a free site just because they didn’t sell well. That really sucked.

derby · « **Reply #31 on:** July 09, 2022, 02:47 »

Quote from: cascoly on July 08, 2022, 18:25

overly simplistic -- if you're running a business and your concerns are "not all about money and percentage", you're not going to be in business very long! as a business i choose WS because they save my business time & energy & my net income is higher

I understand your answer and my opinion was of course only my point of view

What I would like to underline is that in general, in any business, in middle and long term, you have to be ready to change your mind, to react to external move, to adapt your offer to the market. Giving all to an external agent is big limitation on any future change.
Of course is up to you to define your business but I can't remember a good business story with someone that gives all the business choices to someone else.
I wasn't talking simply about money and percentage, not at all!
This is only my opinion

Roscoe · « **Reply #32 on:** July 09, 2022, 04:16 »

Quote from: Camillo on July 08, 2022, 21:07

Quote from: ribtoks on June 30, 2022, 11:46
Hello

A little rant from me for hearing too much about Wirestock: https://xpiksapp.com/blog/never-use-wirestock/

Let me know what are you thoughts! Do you think this is all wrong and actually WS is a good time investment?

I was there for a little while amd left once I found my images were being given away in a free site just because they didn’t sell well. That really sucked.

You mean the instant pay program? I can´t recall Wirestock giving images away for free other than instant pay, which you can opt out of.

alan b traehern · « **Reply #33 on:** July 09, 2022, 08:31 »

Quote from: Roscoe on July 09, 2022, 04:16

Quote from: Camillo on July 08, 2022, 21:07
Quote from: ribtoks on June 30, 2022, 11:46
Hello

A little rant from me for hearing too much about Wirestock: https://xpiksapp.com/blog/never-use-wirestock/

Let me know what are you thoughts! Do you think this is all wrong and actually WS is a good time investment?

I was there for a little while amd left once I found my images were being given away in a free site just because they didn’t sell well. That really sucked.

You mean the instant pay program? I can´t recall Wirestock giving images away for free other than instant pay, which you can opt out of.

They don't give away photos that don't sell well, Wirestock sells nothing, doesn't give away anything, and some of the other comments are also nothing but what if, as they go out of business? Facts are they distribute our work and take 15% for doing that. Like it or don't, but that's not why "you should never ever work with Wirestock". [end of quote] [repeat line] Wirestock sells nothing, the agencies, which are the same agencies, are the same as if we upload ourselves. How can anybody blame Wirestock!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #34 on:** July 09, 2022, 10:49 »

Quote from: Chinni on July 06, 2022, 08:45

https://xpiksapp.com/blog/never-use-wirestock/

in this link, they mentioned that they keep our total earnings for 90 days+ 30 days for each 100 files when we request for content /account deletion.
But where in the TOS mentioned that they keep 100% earnings in that period? They don't motioned that they keep all earnings in that time. They have to pay us our 85% even after we request to delete our files for that period.

I read the TOS and I just noticed your post. There's some odd version of someone's imagination involved.

"Mind you, of course you are not allowed to sell these files in the meantime! If for whatever reasons you will decide to terminate the service agreement with them, you will be locked out. And they will just get more profits from your files for some time."

1) Yes you can sell these files, who's going to stop you? Or will they close your account?

2) Being locked out doesn't equal not being paid, and I'd ask people who have closed their accounts, are they "locked out" and did they get all the money due them? The facts would be good to know. But nowhere does WS say, they will keep earnings.

While Taras makes a good point or two that we are paying 15% for this service and he feels that's not a good value, most of the rest is just digging deep for nit picking "maybe" or "What if" conclusions.

Fair enough, feel free to like or not like the terms, we signed those when we joined? Feel free to not join the distribution business of Wirestock, it's a choice. But please be fair in the attacks and criticism and use real information.

Upon termination of your account, either by you or Wirestock, Wirestock shall have 90 days to remove all your Content hosted by content marketplaces so long as you have uploaded to Wirestock no more than 100 items of Content. For each additional 100 items of Content, Wirestock shall have an additional 30 days to remove all your Content. For example, if you have uploaded 350 items of Content to Wirestock, then Wirestock shall have 150 days to remove all your Content.

Kind of strange that they have set a right to take 30 days for each additional items over 100. I don't know why they would want to, unless someone has some really high earning works? Odd wording as well. If I uploaded 1,000 files and close my account, these terms say, 30 days per hundred to remove the rest. That's the first 90 days and then 270 more days, which means someone with 1,000 files, wouldn't be clear of WS for about a year!

Either that or the wording is terrible?

I personally think that wording is terrible and the time is unreasonable. But nowhere that I see, do they say your account will be locked and you won't be paid.

https://wirestock.io/docs/terms_of_use

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #35 on:** July 10, 2022, 02:55 »

While I have several issues with sites like these, the majority of them are useful services that are a decent option for some, and not so much for others. While I have used Wirestock and BlackBox, I do prefer to upload my own content directly as I have more control over everything... I'd never advise anybody to never ever work with them. It's not like they're scamming people, not paying out earnings or stealing people's content... they pretty much do what they say on the tin, and what they provide will work for some and not for others depending on their priorities. To be honest, I think it's pretty disgusting that a competitor would write such an article which is full of exaggerations, half-truths and worst case situations.

If I could be bothered, I'd write a why you should never ever work with Xpiks... and I'd be sure to apply the same level of journalistic integrity that you have. But I can't. Maybe one day.

cobalt · « **Reply #36 on:** July 10, 2022, 17:38 »

It certainly makes Xpiks look like a lousy company. I would never write anything like this about a direct competitor.

It screams of desperation, they really must be losing a lot of business to wirestock.

The easy solution would have been to offer a keywording and metadata service for the same 15% fee on royalties.

Ot just 12% to have a competitive advantage.

Instead of complaining, just expand the services you offer.

MircoV · « **Reply #37 on:** July 12, 2022, 05:31 »

To me a very odd article and seems it was posted only for business reason.

I can just keep the spirit of the article and could say "Why you should only work with Wirestock".

Why spending many hours keywording and uploading when you can do it in simply one click. In a time with many files online and revenues going to 10 cents it is better to save time. Wirestock makes you save time... a huge amount of time. I can use Xpiks for 10 hours to keyword my 300 photos or instead use 1 click.

ribtoks · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:30 »

Quote from: Chinni on July 06, 2022, 08:45

But where in the TOS mentioned that they keep 100% earnings in that period? They don't motioned that they keep all earnings in that time. They have to pay us our 85% even after we request to delete our files for that period.

It's mentioned nowhere that they keep 100%, also not mentioned in my rant. They keep only their share, but the files are essentially locked for you as by ToS you cannot sell them anywhere and effectively you delisted them from Wirestock. Meaning they have the legal right (which you agreed to by registering there) to NOT pay you, because you are deactivating the account.

ribtoks · « **Reply #39 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:51 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 10, 2022, 17:38

It certainly makes Xpiks look like a lousy company.

Ha-ha, don't worry. Xpiks did not become a more lousy company than it was after publishing the blogpost. Just I got upset with people falling into the trap (in my opinion).

Quote from: cobalt on July 10, 2022, 17:38

I would never write anything like this about a direct competitor.

You see, I have opinions and desire to express them. It's up to you how do you perceive them. Also you slighly misunderstand this business: Xpiks and Wirestock offer a completely different value proposition. Wirestock is more of an agency itself and Xpiks is more like Photoshop. These are two different worlds.

ribtoks · « **Reply #40 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:53 »

Quote from: MircoV on July 12, 2022, 05:31

Why spending many hours keywording and uploading when you can do it in simply one click.

For the reasons I described in the article. The bottom line is: in my opinion the benefits from their keywording are way less than the risks involved. If you think otherwise, it's fine. Just I think it's worth warning people.

As for the business reason for the article - not really. There are tools out there besides Xpiks, I never force anybody to use anything. But I can raise awareness of the risks involved with Wirestock.

ribtoks · « **Reply #41 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:56 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on July 10, 2022, 02:55

If I could be bothered, I'd write a why you should never ever work with Xpiks...

And as truly honestly as I can: I would love to read that article! So please do bother. You can even write about it on this very forum. The reason is I have nothing to hide in Xpiks, no secret fees/hooks/etc. I'm just trying to make a good software that is useful. If you don't like it, I'm very interested to learn why!

ribtoks · « **Reply #42 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:59 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 05, 2022, 10:40

"Wirestock claims you get paid more because their account is in the higher rate level." Do they make that claim, or is that us. No matter, you are still wrong:
https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html
Adobe has levels.
Lifetime Licenses (free downloads don't count)
Minimum Royalty Amount
0-999 $0.33
1,000-9,999 $0.36
10,000 and above $0.38

Your argument that the gain is minimal would seem to be ignoring that the minimal gain pays back for using WS.

You are right and I updated the article, mentioning the minimum royalty amount tier. The reason it was not there initially is that the difference between tiers is, in my opinion, totally insignificant (0.33 - 0.36 - 0.38). On imaginary 100 sales per month it will be 100*$0.03 = $3.

ribtoks · « **Reply #43 on:** July 14, 2022, 09:15 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 09, 2022, 10:49

1) Yes you can sell these files, who's going to stop you? Or will they close your account?

Of course not, the microstock where you will upload them will not allow duplicates. Wirestock has nothing to do there. If I was the Wirestock, I would sell these files the maximum allowed time by the ToS and delete them only the last day to increase the revenue. And I bet this is exactly what they are doing, otherwise they would not have the unreasonable "1 month for every 100 files" clause (not to mention that original 3 months clause is unreasonable too).

ribtoks · « **Reply #44 on:** July 14, 2022, 09:42 »

Quote from: MircoV on July 12, 2022, 05:31

I can use Xpiks for 10 hours to keyword my 300 photos or instead use 1 click.

It's a popular fallacy, exactly what I'm discussing in the blogpost. Of course it's never 1 click with Wirestock and it's never 10 hours with Xpiks (especially with AI keywording, batch editing, presets and what not). The point is that saving some time today with Wirestock puts you in an disproportional risk of wasting way more time later (and potentially loosing also earnings). That is the point I wanted to make in the article.

MircoV · « **Reply #45 on:** July 14, 2022, 14:35 »

Quote from: ribtoks on July 14, 2022, 09:42

Quote from: MircoV on July 12, 2022, 05:31
I can use Xpiks for 10 hours to keyword my 300 photos or instead use 1 click.

It's a popular fallacy, exactly what I'm discussing in the blogpost. Of course it's never 1 click with Wirestock and it's never 10 hours with Xpiks (especially with AI keywording, batch editing, presets and what not). The point is that saving some time today with Wirestock puts you in an disproportional risk of wasting way more time later (and potentially loosing also earnings). That is the point I wanted to make in the article.

Well... everything is a risk... basically if shutterstock and adobe goes down everything goes down since they are the highest earners. We live only 1 time and i want to use now the most i can. I dont think that Wirestock will close any time soon and that they have a bright future. Nothing to worry about.

I used to do all the work myself and also used xpics. It is a great program but the when it comes to workflow and speed there is no comparison with Wirestock. I used to work every evening several hours for submissions. Now it is literally several minutes. For me personally i would be crazy to go back. I prefer to spend those won hours to be with my family.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #46 on:** July 14, 2022, 21:48 »

Quote from: ribtoks on July 14, 2022, 09:15

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 09, 2022, 10:49
1) Yes you can sell these files, who's going to stop you? Or will they close your account?

Of course not, the microstock where you will upload them will not allow duplicates. Wirestock has nothing to do there. If I was the Wirestock, I would sell these files the maximum allowed time by the ToS and delete them only the last day to increase the revenue. And I bet this is exactly what they are doing, otherwise they would not have the unreasonable "1 month for every 100 files" clause (not to mention that original 3 months clause is unreasonable too).

Lets deal in facts instead of accusing and hypothetical? DO THEY? Or do you think they might? Or is there any evidence of fact behind what you bet?

What's to stop anyone from uploading to the agencies directly, except your supposition that "they" will not allow duplicates. Have you tried? And you still suppose that WS will do something that's unjust, to make more money, by somehow cheating the contributor? Is that true, it has happened, or just a, maybe they could?

Seems like you went on a fishing trip for reasons why WS was a bad deal, and ignored why for some people it's not all that bad. Plus you managed to ignore some of the good reasons, like higher levels, which you claim aren't important. So then the 15% isn't important either? And I say, the 15% is balanced by the higher levels. Hmmm? No loss... maybe?

But to be fair, I still upload on my own to Adobe and SS, and I don't think WS is the magic answer. But here's where it's a winner for me. Any time I make an accumulated $30 they pay me. That means some agencies that I won't make the $100 required, in the next 5-10 years, I'm getting paid right now.

Some people will like it and some will choose other ways to work. I don't find "Why you should never ever work with Wirestock" to be anything more than a leading title for your biased claims. I am often more unconvinced immediately when someone tries to lead me or starts with negatives, or "Don't you think..." and tries to tell me what I think or should think, just because they do.

Fine with me, that you don't like the program and there are questions and possibly ways that some might have locked their images, beyond the time, they would want to. But no I don't think there's as strong of a statement as why people should never work with WS, because we have a different personal viewpoint than you do.

I'm very happy using WS to upload to sites that I'd never want to have my own account. Pretty simple? I know that I'm paying a 15% fee for that service. I'm getting 85% of money that I'd never have.

And I still do all my own keywording, because I think WS keywording is inadequate, limited and not very good for describing images or attracting sales.

Agencies don't allow duplicates? You're really going to go with that as why WS is holding your images hostage

Or because of all the money they will make, by not releasing your images back to you? Those must be some very special and high demand images.

Camillo · « **Reply #47 on:** July 15, 2022, 11:01 »

Quote from: alan b traehern on July 09, 2022, 08:31

Quote from: Roscoe on July 09, 2022, 04:16
Quote from: Camillo on July 08, 2022, 21:07
Quote from: ribtoks on June 30, 2022, 11:46
Hello

A little rant from me for hearing too much about Wirestock: https://xpiksapp.com/blog/never-use-wirestock/

Let me know what are you thoughts! Do you think this is all wrong and actually WS is a good time investment?

I was there for a little while amd left once I found my images were being given away in a free site just because they didn’t sell well. That really sucked.

You mean the instant pay program? I can´t recall Wirestock giving images away for free other than instant pay, which you can opt out of.

They don't give away photos that don't sell well, Wirestock sells nothing, doesn't give away anything, and some of the other comments are also nothing but what if, as they go out of business? Facts are they distribute our work and take 15% for doing that. Like it or don't, but that's not why "you should never ever work with Wirestock". [end of quote] [repeat line] Wirestock sells nothing, the agencies, which are the same agencies, are the same as if we upload ourselves. How can anybody blame Wirestock!

Whatever helps you sleep at night but thats how they do it. Thats what they did to me.

ribtoks · « **Reply #48 on:** July 15, 2022, 12:12 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 14, 2022, 21:48

Lets deal in facts instead of accusing and hypothetical? DO THEY? Or do you think they might? Or is there any evidence of fact behind what you bet?

Uncle Pete, this is called logical deduction from publicly available information. You do not need to hypothesize will you die or not die if Russians will hit you with a bomb, that does not have to happen to you to make some conclusions. Microstocks do not allow duplicates in different accounts. Period. This is written in their terms of service. Wirestock sells your files 1 extra month for each 100 files. Written in the terms of service. This means, in plain English, that you cannot upload your own files under your personal account while you are in the process of closing Wirestock account (if you will) for as long as few years if you have few thousand files. If for you this seems to be far fetched, I'm sorry.

There is no single "imaginary" statement in my blogpost, all the information is based on facts from Wirestock terms and conditions. The only hypothetization is if they will go out of business, but this is clearly mentioned with "IF"s.

To the contrary of what you are saying, I did not forget about benefits, this is in the very very beginning in the section "Value proposition of the Wirestock".

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #49 on:** July 15, 2022, 13:03 »

Quote from: ribtoks on July 15, 2022, 12:12

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 14, 2022, 21:48
Lets deal in facts instead of accusing and hypothetical? DO THEY? Or do you think they might? Or is there any evidence of fact behind what you bet?

Uncle Pete, this is called logical deduction from publicly available information. You do not need to hypothesize will you die or not die if Russians will hit you with a bomb, that does not have to happen to you to make some conclusions. Microstocks do not allow duplicates in different accounts. Period. This is written in their terms of service. Wirestock sells your files 1 extra month for each 100 files. Written in the terms of service. This means, in plain English, that you cannot upload your own files under your personal account while you are in the process of closing Wirestock account (if you will) for as long as few years if you have few thousand files. If for you this seems to be far fetched, I'm sorry.

There is no single "imaginary" statement in my blogpost, all the information is based on facts from Wirestock terms and conditions. The only hypothetization is if they will go out of business, but this is clearly mentioned with "IF"s.

To the contrary of what you are saying, I did not forget about benefits, this is in the very very beginning in the section "Value proposition of the Wirestock".

Best wishes for your software and projects. I just think you were a bit biased and heavy handed in the review. Of course I'd agree, you are free to think whatever you think you see in this.

Quote from: ribtoks on July 14, 2022, 09:15

Of course not, the microstock where you will upload them will not allow duplicates. Wirestock has nothing to do there. If I was the Wirestock, I would sell these files the maximum allowed time by the ToS and delete them only the last day to increase the revenue. And I bet this is exactly what they are doing, otherwise they would not have the unreasonable "1 month for every 100 files" clause (not to mention that original 3 months clause is unreasonable too).

I promise you can, I could and many others have, uploaded duplicates and similar to "the microstock" where I upload. And you or I could look and find people who have many duplicate images, listed for Wirestock and also on their own personal accounts.

Also you suppose: That they are actually going to hold all the images they can, to squeeze out every penny, and prevent you from uploading to other places? And that's based on your personal logical deduction, because "otherwise they would not have the unreasonable ...clause" (I don't like that bit of the terms and maybe people who like to join and quit and join and quit, shouldn't like it either, but you are accusing and attributing motivations, based on your own imaginary reasons, not evidence?)

You bet that's what they are doing? Is that a fact or a hypothetical?

A bomb falling on someone is of course very real. You're right about that.

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Author Topic: Why you should never ever work with Wirestock (Read 3423 times)

ole999

RalfLiebhold

derby

farbled

cascoly

Camillo

derby

Roscoe

alan b traehern

Uncle Pete

SpaceStockFootage

cobalt

MircoV

ribtoks

ribtoks

ribtoks

ribtoks

ribtoks

ribtoks

ribtoks

MircoV

Uncle Pete

Camillo

ribtoks

Uncle Pete

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