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Author Topic: 4K vs HD  (Read 2102 times)

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« on: May 07, 2019, 17:05 »
0
Hi, ladies and gents. Pretty much everybody says that 4K is the way to go, and it's kinda hard to argue this point. Yet pretty much every contributor I know would say that HD videos absolutely outsell their 4k videos. I wonder how's it going with you guys?

Elijah.


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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 18:46 »
+2
Can't remember the exact number (it's on the site somewhere but can't remember where to find it either), but it's either 90 or 95% of sales at Pond5 are HD or 720p... and the other 5 to 10% are 4K. So not having any 4K in your portfolio isn't going to make much difference to your sales right now. Just having 'a few more clips' or 'slightly better quality clips' would result in a HD producer making more than a 4K producer.

However, I'm pretty sure that 5 to 10% will increase over time, so you're just future-proofing what you're shooting... so you don't have to go out, buy a 4K camera and shoot your entire portfolio again if and when 4K is the bigger seller. 

« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 19:51 »
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Thanks! Nice summary.

« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2019, 00:46 »
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My camera has only the possibility teo record HD videos.

My camera is the Pentax K-3, Pentax currently has no 4K dlsr (if i want buy to a 4K camera, i want to use my Pentax lenses on it)

I just begun with submitting videos

« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 00:48 »
0
Can't remember the exact number (it's on the site somewhere but can't remember where to find it either), but it's either 90 or 95% of sales at Pond5 are HD or 720p... and the other 5 to 10% are 4K. So not having any 4K in your portfolio isn't going to make much difference to your sales right now. Just having 'a few more clips' or 'slightly better quality clips' would result in a HD producer making more than a 4K producer.

However, I'm pretty sure that 5 to 10% will increase over time, so you're just future-proofing what you're shooting... so you don't have to go out, buy a 4K camera and shoot your entire portfolio again if and when 4K is the bigger seller.
Good to know!
I hope, Pentax will release a 4K dlsr soon!

« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 01:03 »
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Just a subjective opinion,

4K prices will slip to HD ones in short time of period? (maybe)
Speaking from  my perspective. Set (by Pond5) automatically prices on 4K are 50$ if I am not wrong.
this leads to around 20$ for non exclusive or around 30$ cut for exclusive clips
(pre taxes, bank and paypal cut etc) and of course equipment, editing and storage expences.

Although I struggle to enrich my arsenal with 4K gear for both family memories and stock,
I am not sure that it will be future proof in terms of generic clips,
new people entering will always provide a new higher res vs lower priced of e.g. flowers or smiling faces
and editorial or unique footage can easily (as past shows) be upgraded
or used as -is in documentary work.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 01:05 by georgep7 »

« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 02:57 »
0
A few years back, some random dude asked himself the same question for moving from SD to HD.
In some years from now 4K will be the standard. How many years? I'm guessing around 5-7.
I shot only 4K, even if it complex the post production process, as I hope that the materials that I'm shooting will be still relevant when HD fades away.


« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2019, 04:12 »
+1
There are conflicting opinions on whether to submit 4k videos to Shutterstock. SS has this weird design implementation in their video search interface. If a customer searches by 'HD only', all 4k videos will become invisible in the search results. Contributors have pointed out this flaw in the SS forum about a year ago but nothing was ever done about it. Ive decided only to submit HD content to SS (that way, the clips are visible to everyone and I know that 4k video sales are rare anyway.) The 4k videos go to the other stock agencies.

Though I'm curious to know how many customers really use that 'HD only' option when searching. I wasn't even aware of that feature until it was pointed out on the forum.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 04:15 by dragonblade »


« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2019, 13:28 »
+2
I have a good amount of 4K stock footage, but HD still sells much more. At some point I would guess that 4K will take over, but I don't see that happening for years. The quality difference between HD and 4K is not nearly as large as the difference between SD and HD. I don't hesitate in shooting or uploading HD if I have a reason to.

I personally have had a 75inch 4K TV for over a year, but actually watching 4K on it is really rare. I actually can't say for sure what I've watched on it that was 4K other then looking at some of my 4K stock on it.

« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2019, 19:02 »
0

If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera.  They're just dirt cheap. 

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 19:44 by marthamarks »

« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2019, 19:47 »
+1
Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

I don't know of any Canon cameras with 4k video capability off hand. However, I believe some of the current mirrorless options from Sony can accept Canon EF lenses with expensive, specialised adaptors and some of these Sony models do record in 4k video (like the A7sII.) Though I'm not sure if there are comprises in some of the functionality in the adapted Canon lenses.

fritz

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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2019, 19:55 »
+1

If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera.  They're just dirt cheap. 

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.


Why not GH5(4k 60fps or 6k 30fps 10 bit) along with speed buster adapter! Metabones or Viltrox will do the job,great combo

« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2019, 20:04 »
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Thank you, Fritz and Dragonblade, for your suggestions. I'll check 'em out!

And I continue to welcome other input too.  ;)

« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2019, 20:29 »
+1
I wasn't sure about Canon's latest mirrorless model (the M50) though Ive just checked and supposedly, that can shoot 4k video as well. Though once again, you would need to use an adaptor in order to mount your L lenses.

« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2019, 20:32 »
+1
Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

I don't know of any Canon cameras with 4k video capability off hand. However, I believe some of the current mirrorless options from Sony can accept Canon EF lenses with expensive, specialised adaptors and some of these Sony models do record in 4k video (like the A7sII.) Though I'm not sure if there are comprises in some of the functionality in the adapted Canon lenses.
The 5D4 does. M-JPEG 4:2:2 8-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24p/29.97p [500 Mb/s]

The files are ginormous but the quality is quite good. I would opt for a GH5 or the new BlackMagic though.

« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2019, 20:50 »
0
Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

I don't know of any Canon cameras with 4k video capability off hand. However, I believe some of the current mirrorless options from Sony can accept Canon EF lenses with expensive, specialised adaptors and some of these Sony models do record in 4k video (like the A7sII.) Though I'm not sure if there are comprises in some of the functionality in the adapted Canon lenses.
The 5D4 does. M-JPEG 4:2:2 8-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24p/29.97p [500 Mb/s]

The files are ginormous but the quality is quite good. I would opt for a GH5 or the new BlackMagic though.

Thank you too, Peter.

I actually like the crop format of the 7D, because it's a natural for birds and other critters. Rather than the D5iv, I'd love to get a 7Diii if it ever does come out. But I'll look at that one.

Also will check out the DCI 4K.

Much appreciated!

« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2019, 22:51 »
+1
Quote

If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera.

It depends Dennis.
There are various asterisks in both "4K" and "cameras".
If i had a good budget available i would prefer a 4K one full inch sensor camcorder like Ax700 or pxw-z90 or Xf405 or Xa50 or Gx10 or HcX1. More than personal preferences, camcorders do give more video tools, from build in ND filters to hours of uninteruptable recording to more. Plenty of prosumer to pro to broadcast to cinema bodies to choose from....

If one is not shooting stills, but just video,  4K mirrorless are not oneway for video no matter the bells and whistles and what the camera market trends are :)

EDIT: to be honest, I still admire C100 even older Mki manual focus version, over  low light monsters or rapid focus or IBIS stabilized models or whatever.  But that is just me...

EDIT II Here is a short funny story, while shooting some editorial video with a Canon 600D body and a borrowed 70-200 lens from a friend that next to me shooted with a Sony camera with a Canon 100mm attached, we noticed that people came and asked "me" what is the event about, when the mayor will arrive and when it will start. Around there were people from the press, some tv coverage, tripods, arri lights and some live links. I was kidding to my friend, "I am the most handsome around" and he replied, "nope, you are the only one around with a white lens". Actually I was the one that didn't sell anything from the event. Not in stock nor in the news...

People often do judge wrong on equipment, even videographers.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 23:31 by georgep7 »

« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2019, 23:33 »
0
If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera. 

Overall true. Though 4k time lapse clips can be shot with cameras that are not capable of 4k video. Just as long as the pixel count of each Raw photo is greater than 4096 x 2160.

« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2019, 12:39 »
+1

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I use a Canon 5D mark IV for a lot of my stock footage, but it's not really a cheap solution. When shooting 4k it has a 2X crop factor, so good if you're shooting wildlife. Or you can shoot HD using the full frame.

I'm not sure I would buy one if I was just shooting video, but I also shoot a lot of photos.

I also have a Panasonic GH5, but lately I've been using the Canon more.


« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 17:49 »
0

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I use a Canon 5D mark IV for a lot of my stock footage, but it's not really a cheap solution. When shooting 4k it has a 2X crop factor, so good if you're shooting wildlife. Or you can shoot HD using the full frame.

That's useful information, which I appreciate very much. I'd like the crop factor for 4K but it seems a shame to have that fine camera and not to be able to shoot 4K at full frame.

Yesterday, I started researching the Canon R and RP mirrorless cameras. Seems clear that mirrorless is the future, but I'm not sure they're what I want. The RP is so much less expensive makes me wonder what the catch is.

The search goes on.

« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2019, 18:34 »
0


The search goes on.


And of course now with 6K just around the corner what's a person to do?  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPFSSnMJo7A


« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2019, 20:26 »
0

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I use a Canon 5D mark IV for a lot of my stock footage, but it's not really a cheap solution. When shooting 4k it has a 2X crop factor, so good if you're shooting wildlife. Or you can shoot HD using the full frame.

That's useful information, which I appreciate very much. I'd like the crop factor for 4K but it seems a shame to have that fine camera and not to be able to shoot 4K at full frame.

Yesterday, I started researching the Canon R and RP mirrorless cameras. Seems clear that mirrorless is the future, but I'm not sure they're what I want. The RP is so much less expensive makes me wonder what the catch is.

The search goes on.

I'm pretty sure the Canon R and RP have the same crop when shooting 4K video as the 5D mk IV. One big problem with the RP for shooing video is that it doesn't use the duel pixel auto focus while shooting 4K video like the 5D and R do. The duel pixel auto focus is the main reason I use my Canon for video over the Panasonic GH5.

« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2019, 21:38 »
0

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I use a Canon 5D mark IV for a lot of my stock footage, but it's not really a cheap solution. When shooting 4k it has a 2X crop factor, so good if you're shooting wildlife. Or you can shoot HD using the full frame.

That's useful information, which I appreciate very much. I'd like the crop factor for 4K but it seems a shame to have that fine camera and not to be able to shoot 4K at full frame.

Yesterday, I started researching the Canon R and RP mirrorless cameras. Seems clear that mirrorless is the future, but I'm not sure they're what I want. The RP is so much less expensive makes me wonder what the catch is.

The search goes on.

I'm pretty sure the Canon R and RP have the same crop when shooting 4K video as the 5D mk IV. One big problem with the RP for shooing video is that it doesn't use the duel pixel auto focus while shooting 4K video like the 5D and R do. The duel pixel auto focus is the main reason I use my Canon for video over the Panasonic GH5.

Again, thank you. This is helpful too.

« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2019, 21:40 »
0


The search goes on.


And of course now with 6K just around the corner what's a person to do?  ::)

Well, this particular person obviously isn't out for the latest and greatest camera or the slickest and fanciest technology, since I'm the one who's still happily shooting HD videos on 10-year-old Canon 7Ds.

But thanks for sharing that info, anyway. :)

« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2019, 07:40 »
+1

If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera.  They're just dirt cheap. 

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I was much in the same boat.  I've been (and continue to be) a loyal Canon user and happened to have the same 7d that you talk about.  Given my role, I knew it was time for a better camera with regards to video and waited for about 2 years in the hopes that Canon would release a mid-tier camera that didn't compromise on video that much.  If you want Canon and only Canon, I think the EOS-R is a good camera, mirrorless with decent but not spectacular 4k results. 

For myself, after much hand wringing, I decided to go for the Sony A7 III and the metabones V adapter.  If you're shooting manual, you're golden.  If you shoot P mode, it's not bad and the metabones v60 software does a pretty good job of giving you things like AF and so forth.  4k video is pristine and easy to get to.

Biggest change on the photo side will be that your lenses don't act the same because you switched to a full-frame sensor.  I used to work almost entirely with a EF28-70 macro and with the 1.6 crop factor could reach out enough to get a decent shot.  Now, I am strapping on the EF70-200 f/4 and wanting more distance!

In the end, any camera you get today is going to do a good job for both photo and in most cases video.  Just do your homework first.

Hope this helps,
Dennis

« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2019, 09:18 »
+1
I understand that this is mainly a photographers powered forum.
But just for reference, camcorders, also do shoot video!

Really!

:P

An one inch (type) sensor camcorders shooting 4K from Sony AX100/700
to Canon xc10/15 or Legria GX10 or XF 400 or (smaller sensor) newcoming XA40,
or Panasonic or JVC solutions sound as a safe solution assuming that one
keep all "HD" "old" dslr bodies and expensive glass for photography
and just invest 2000-4000$ for a camcorder that can also cover events
or just small productions or whatever up to 1080 120fps or 4K 30 to 60 fps
as long as a mirroless body, a metabones plus a monitor & some audio equipment
are at the same price range...

Just an alternative.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2019, 10:44 »
+1
I recently bought a Sony AX100. 4K at 24 or 30fps, 1080 at 60fps (I think it does 120fps at 720p as well... still learning!), a 1" sensor, 100Mbps bitrate, built in ND filters, zebras, peaking, audio in, control it remotely with your phone, decent zoom and some pretty impressive video quality... what's not to like?! Picked it up reconditioned for $1250.

One of the first shots I took with it...


« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2019, 11:09 »
+2
I recently bought a Sony AX100. 4K at 24 or 30fps, 1080 at 60fps (I think it does 120fps at 720p as well... still learning!), a 1" sensor, 100Mbps bitrate, built in ND filters, zebras, peaking, audio in, control it remotely with your phone, decent zoom and some pretty impressive video quality... what's not to like?! Picked it up reconditioned for $1250.

One of the first shots I took with it...

Watch those blown out highlights... If there aren't any flat profiles on that camera, mess around with the contrast settings (generally as low as it goes) to maximize the performance of the small sensor.

Built in ND filters is truly a great thing though!

« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2019, 11:23 »
0
You got a good deal then! Wishes for happy filming! :)

Just an offtopic comment, 1 inch sensor camcorders (all brands)
are actually smaller than one inch, their full name is "1 inch type".

NDs and the option to use XLRK2M audio unit. It is priceless to appear in public with a simple bulky "consumer" body
and in an event with the same body and α shotgun mic plus a second XLR ready to get whatever audio needed.

On a bright day, you could zoom more to the two monkey faces with the little sister AX53 20x optical zoom.
Guess no one would notice the difference 4K 24/30 @100Mbps.

« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2019, 12:25 »
0

If you're a contributor and looking to get into video acquisition, you'd be silly to purchase anything other than a 4k camera.  They're just dirt cheap. 

I've been shooting HD stock video with my 3 original Canon 7D cameras, which are really old now, and I know I need to upgrade soon. Also have a great collection of L lenses so don't want to change brand.

I've been waiting for the 7Diii but there's no sign of it yet. (I missed the 7Dii which is now discontinued.)

Can anybody recommend a Canon 4K camera that works well for wildlife? "Dirt cheap" would be nice but not expected.  :)

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

I was much in the same boat.  I've been (and continue to be) a loyal Canon user and happened to have the same 7d that you talk about.  Given my role, I knew it was time for a better camera with regards to video and waited for about 2 years in the hopes that Canon would release a mid-tier camera that didn't compromise on video that much.  If you want Canon and only Canon, I think the EOS-R is a good camera, mirrorless with decent but not spectacular 4k results. 

For myself, after much hand wringing, I decided to go for the Sony A7 III and the metabones V adapter.  If you're shooting manual, you're golden.  If you shoot P mode, it's not bad and the metabones v60 software does a pretty good job of giving you things like AF and so forth.  4k video is pristine and easy to get to.

Biggest change on the photo side will be that your lenses don't act the same because you switched to a full-frame sensor.  I used to work almost entirely with a EF28-70 macro and with the 1.6 crop factor could reach out enough to get a decent shot.  Now, I am strapping on the EF70-200 f/4 and wanting more distance!

In the end, any camera you get today is going to do a good job for both photo and in most cases video.  Just do your homework first.

Hope this helps,
Dennis

Dennis, thank you so much for that detailed answer!

I'm keeping my eyes on the "Canon rumors" websites and, based on new developments being reported, still hope that a 7D iii may yet make its appearance later this year. (Or a merged 7D and 80D, which may be the final product.) That's really the camera I want, so I'm willing to wait for it.

But if it doesn't materialize by the end of this year, I'll have to get something else, because my 10-year-old 7Ds are getting a bit cranky even tho they still work for what I'm currently doing.

Again, thank you.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2019, 13:37 »
+1
That was pretty zoomed in anyway, but I've got a 1080p crop of it as well, without the bright rock action!


 

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