Author Topic: Should I submit or not? (Read 2456 times)

dragonblade · « **on:** January 19, 2020, 22:42 »

I currently have a dilemma concerning stock footage. Not too long ago, I recorded some 4k footage of some news worthy content (I guess I should say potentially newsworthy.) However, the laptop that I usually use to edit 4k video is being repaired and so I don't have access to it. So I'm forced to use my 9 year old pc with only 4GB of RAM and old processor. I seriously doubt it could handle rendering 4k video files so the best I could do is render HD files from 4k footage. But a weird thing happens when I do that. I currently use Shotcut for editing stock footage and I always use a two pass render for optimum quality results. Though at least one of those passes will fail (and I get a big red X to indicate that.) Ive attempted to export this particular video so many times and what happens is that either the first render pass will fail or the second one will. Or sometimes both passes will fail.

Though surprisingly, when I play back the exported file, the video looks completely normal. I don't see any issues. Though logically, there must be something not quite right since I repeatedly got failed render passes. So the question is - should I submit or not? Just wondering if there might be some kind of issue that's invisible to me but might be apparent to an editor working with the clip on a timeline.

I also took some photographs of the very same subject that I recorded footage of. And one of those photos sold through SS over week ago. I couldn't find whereabouts the image was used though I'm assuming it may have been featured in a news article. I'm probably thinking now that this is old news and so I'm likely too late in trying to submit the footage of the same newsworthy subject. However, this morning, another one of my photos of the same subject sold through SS. So there could be hope yet.

Though like I mentioned before, there could be some technical issue with my edited footage that I'm not aware of. Cos according to Shotcut, what I have is a failed video export. And no matter how many times I render, I get those red Xs and the fail messages.

Gannet77 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2020, 07:00 »

Have you tried using MPEG Streamclip? If you just need to cut the start and end or make minor adjustments, it's a lightweight clip editor that usually works even on low power PCs. And it will do 4K or reduce to HD if you want.

dragonblade · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2020, 07:37 »

I used to use MPEG Streamclip years ago. It is indeed good software. Though mine stopped working a long time ago. And I noticed other people experienced the same problem too. If I recall correctly, I reinstalled it but that didn't fix things.

Cider Apple · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2020, 08:26 »

If the clip runs smoothly on your computer then it should be OK. Years ago any renders I did using After Effects I would get a glitchy one frame duplication that made the clip twitch. You could go through the clip and make sure each frame is OK?
I would just say be careful when down converting from 4Kto HD using 3rd party software. There are different sizes in 4K so you may get letterboxing on the HD clip (black bars on the top and bottom). Also make sure you are keeping the original frame rate or you will get frame blending or it could look choppy when playing back.

Are you on a PC or MAC?

dragonblade · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2020, 08:55 »

Yea the footage plays smoothly. There's no stuttering or anything like that. And the bitrate is decently high. According to the properties within Shotcut, the original footage is 16:9 so no worries about the aspect ratio when converting it to HD. Though the frame rate was 23.something fps (can't recall exactly) and I converted that to 24fps. The reason I did that is because the camera's frame rate is not in the list of SS' accepted frame rates. Though Ive done this very same conversion quite a few times in the past and it's always looked normal in playback. Ive never had a rejection for it by any of the stock agencies.

I'm using a Windows 7 pc.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2020, 08:57 »

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 08:26

If the clip runs smoothly on your computer then it should be OK. Years ago any renders I did using After Effects I would get a glitchy one frame duplication that made the clip twitch. You could go through the clip and make sure each frame is OK?
I would just say be careful when down converting from 4Kto HD using 3rd party software. There are different sizes in 4K so you may get letterboxing on the HD clip (black bars on the top and bottom). Also make sure you are keeping the original frame rate or you will get frame blending or it could look choppy when playing back.

Are you on a PC or MAC?

None of these issues are, well, issues, if you know what you're doing. All software is "3rd party software" unless you use the camera manufacturer's own, which no one does (well, Blackmagic users might).

If you want to change the frame rate in After Effects, just choose "Interpret Footage" and set it to whatever you want. If you don't want to change it, just create a new comp from the clip and the original settings are kept.

You don't get frame blending unless you tell AE to blend frames. And you don't get duplicate frames unless you drop a clip with a different frame rate into an already created comp with another frame rate. Or if you change the speed.

To the OP:

Your old computer can render 4k footage just fine - it just takes longer! Work with proxies if you're having playback problems.

My opinion is that you should use good commercial software if you want to get consistent results. That means After Effects, Premiere, Final Cut, or DaVinci Resolve.

My opinion only.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:10 »

Quote from: dragonblade on January 20, 2020, 08:55

Though the frame rate was 23.something fps (can't recall exactly) and I converted that to 24fps. The reason I did that is because the camera's frame rate is not in the list of SS' accepted frame rates.

23.976?

That is accepted by all agencies, and used in many professional productions. You might have seen "23.98" in that list, which is just a lazy way of writing 23.976.

You don't have to convert anything.

dragonblade · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:15 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 20, 2020, 08:57

Your old computer can render 4k footage just fine - it just takes longer! Work with proxies if you're having playback problems.

Unfortunately, my computer is a bit strange. When I subject it to heavy workloads, it aborts the project. For example, with regards to editing HD video, it can only render fairly short duration videos. Though if I try and render a longer duration HD video (like an 8 minute one) 9 times out of 10, it won't complete the rendering process. So I'll be left with a partially completed video that might run for about 5 - 7 minutes instead of 8 minutes.

Likewise, when exporting a batch of photos in Adobe Lightroom, it may only successfully export some of the images, not all of them. If I try and export say 200 photos, it may export 149 of them or 80 of them. Or sometimes it may only export 28 photos or 14.

dragonblade · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:25 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 20, 2020, 09:10

23.976?

That is accepted by all agencies, and used in many professional productions. You might have seen "23.98" in that list, which is just a lazy way of writing 23.976. You don't have to convert anything.

Woops! Ah yes it is 23.976. Yea maybe it was "23.98" that I saw in that list. Good to know I don't need to do these conversions anymore.

Cider Apple · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2020, 10:54 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 20, 2020, 08:57

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 08:26
If the clip runs smoothly on your computer then it should be OK. Years ago any renders I did using After Effects I would get a glitchy one frame duplication that made the clip twitch. You could go through the clip and make sure each frame is OK?
I would just say be careful when down converting from 4Kto HD using 3rd party software. There are different sizes in 4K so you may get letterboxing on the HD clip (black bars on the top and bottom). Also make sure you are keeping the original frame rate or you will get frame blending or it could look choppy when playing back.

Are you on a PC or MAC?

None of these issues are, well, issues, if you know what you're doing. All software is "3rd party software" unless you use the camera manufacturer's own, which no one does (well, Blackmagic users might).

If you want to change the frame rate in After Effects, just choose "Interpret Footage" and set it to whatever you want. If you don't want to change it, just create a new comp from the clip and the original settings are kept.

You don't get frame blending unless you tell AE to blend frames. And you don't get duplicate frames unless you drop a clip with a different frame rate into an already created comp with another frame rate. Or if you change the speed.

To the OP:

Your old computer can render 4k footage just fine - it just takes longer! Work with proxies if you're having playback problems.

My opinion is that you should use good commercial software if you want to get consistent results. That means After Effects, Premiere, Final Cut, or DaVinci Resolve.

My opinion only.

Mate I've been exporting frame rates for years. Thanks for the AE info but I'm an old hat at it. The software actually had a bug (or my comp) that the odd frame now and then would just glitch out. The latest CC has fixed this.

3rd party software meaning video convertors and not editing software like Premiere or FCPX etc.

Also if using video convertors then yes you will get letterboxing depending on the original 4K size. The op mentioned 16-9 so should be ok.
My 4K sony records in 4096X2160 but most cameras record in 3840X2160

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:55 »

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 10:54

Mate I've been exporting frame rates for years.

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 10:54

make sure you are keeping the original frame rate or you will get frame blending

So was that another bug then? Just curious, as frame blending usually doesn't magically appear unless you're pressing the wrong buttons (or the right buttons if you WANT frame blending of course).

Could be interlaced video issues, but that hasn't been relevant in 10 years...

Anyway, today, in After Effects 2020, frames aren't duplicated or blended unless you want them to.

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 10:54

3rd party software meaning video convertors and not editing software like Premiere or FCPX etc.

Well, that's not what 3rd party software means...

Cider Apple · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2020, 14:01 »

No it was like a rendering glitch I had in CS6. It would just glitch out a random frame every now and then. A lot of my stock work from around 2011 must have a random frame sometimes in the clip as it was a good half year before I realized

dragonblade · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2020, 09:05 »

Shotcut is driving me crazy at the moment. I'm trying to export some other editorial footage of a news worthy subject. Ive tried over twenty times to export this footage with 2 pass renders. Usually, one of the passes will fail. Occasionally, both passes will fail. On every occasion, I end up with an exported file that's less than a few KBs in size and there is no picture when I play it back. I defragment between each export. I also closed the program but none of this makes any difference. Any solutions? Should I delete the software and reinstall it?

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2020, 09:17 »

Quote from: dragonblade on January 22, 2020, 09:05

Any solutions? Should I delete the software and reinstall it?

Yes, but don't reinstall it. It's clear that it doesn't work the way you need it to, and my advice is once again to use REAL professional software if you want professional results.

Download a trial of After Effects and see if that works.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2020, 09:22 »

Quote from: Cider Apple on January 20, 2020, 14:01

No it was like a rendering glitch I had in CS6. It would just glitch out a random frame every now and then. A lot of my stock work from around 2011 must have a random frame sometimes in the clip as it was a good half year before I realized

I see, but at least since CC 2015 those problems have been fixed. Never had a frame issue like this in After Effects.

On the other hand, Final Cut Pro X does have a bug similar to the one you're describing. It happens if you drop 25p footage on a 24p/23.976p timeline, and choose to retime automatically, which should make it play back at 96% of the speed. It says it does, but you will find duplicate frames.

Interestingly, if you DON'T retime the 25p footage in the 24p timeline, it plays back just fine without duplicate frames!

Any other combination seems to work fine (30 to 24, 25, or 24 to 30 etc.).

georgep7 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2020, 10:58 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 22, 2020, 09:17

Quote from: dragonblade on January 22, 2020, 09:05
Any solutions? Should I delete the software and reinstall it?

Yes, but don't reinstall it. It's clear that it doesn't work the way you need it to, and my advice is once again to use REAL professional software if you want professional results.

Download a trial of After Effects and see if that works.

It is a hard talk what is actually "professional". One might say Avid other might say Nuke.
Whatever the editing house owners use or pay for is usually considered pro.
For stock? Trimming and basic color correction sounds good enough for a start maybe?
All those bells and whistles sometimes just try to repair originally bad shots. In contrast?
AE is good for manipulation but not all content needs or is suitable for that i think

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Author Topic: Should I submit or not? (Read 2456 times)

dragonblade

Gannet77

dragonblade

Cider Apple

dragonblade

increasingdifficulty

increasingdifficulty

dragonblade

dragonblade

Cider Apple

increasingdifficulty

Cider Apple

dragonblade

increasingdifficulty

increasingdifficulty

georgep7

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