Quote from: Mantis on March 18, 2015, 13:17

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 12:12

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on March 18, 2015, 10:51
I certainly hope they bring in a Vetta / Premier collection at SS. It did extremely well for me when iStock first brought it in at the $75 range. My earnings more than doubled with Vetta, it also motivated me to produce much

That would go against nearly all of their marketing.  If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc..  They aren't going to make a higher priced collection in Shutterstock anytime soon, it would be very inconsistent with their marketing.

At this point we don't know if they will be asking for image exclusivity, but they probably won't.  So, if they allow us to keep those images that get into Premier in the cheap seat collection too, the differentiator must be in the license.  Without any form of marketing hook like "exclusive" or "only found on SS" there would be nothing to offer certain clients other than a more robust license that meets the unique needs of big organizations/clients.  In my humble opinion it's one or the other or both.

Correct.

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 13:14

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 12:12

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on March 18, 2015, 10:51
I certainly hope they bring in a Vetta / Premier collection at SS. It did extremely well for me when iStock first brought it in at the $75 range. My earnings more than doubled with Vetta, it also motivated me to produce much

That would go against nearly all of their marketing.  If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc..  They aren't going to make a higher priced collection in Shutterstock anytime soon, it would be very inconsistent with their marketing.

They already have a higher-priced Shutterstock collection for large enterprises—according to the blog post, they have for four years.

Shelma, our posts hit at the same time.  Your statement supports the value proposition of "licensing" being the value-added customer need since those images in Premier also remain in the general collection.  What's interesting is the process of selecting images. If it is licensing as the value proposition, why not put in all images and let the customer decide? My answer to this is they are going to promote Premier select as something like "popular images, high selling images or something like that, and this claim and division between general and premier select is defined by lifetime earnings (however that in and of itself is defined).

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 13:14

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 12:12

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on March 18, 2015, 10:51
I certainly hope they bring in a Vetta / Premier collection at SS. It did extremely well for me when iStock first brought it in at the $75 range. My earnings more than doubled with Vetta, it also motivated me to produce much

That would go against nearly all of their marketing.  If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc..  They aren't going to make a higher priced collection in Shutterstock anytime soon, it would be very inconsistent with their marketing.

They already have a higher-priced Shutterstock collection for large enterprises—according to the blog post, they have for four years.

That's not how I understand the blog post.

My understanding:

Shutterstock Premier (existing since four years) is not a separate collection, but a separate service they provide to selected customers.
They use the same collection (or maybe a part of the total collection, that isn't clear to me) but add on additional services like "custom license packages, additional indemnification, and help with researching the collection". And those additional services are the reason for the (significantly) higher prices.
And they do pay us our share, that's where the SODs (or part of them) come from.

The last part ("help with researching the collection") already sounds a bit like curation.

And now they are testing "Premier Select".
There's no details on what exactly that is, but to me this sounds like a separate collection (unlike the existing Shutterstock Premier).
So maybe it's "only" taking the idea of presenting a curated collection to big customers a big further.

The open questions are is this really separate (or are the same images available via a normal Shutterstock customer account), how are images / contributors chosen, how is the pricing, how is the commission structure etc.

Nothing regarding these questions is really available.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 13:19

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 13:14

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 12:12

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on March 18, 2015, 10:51
I certainly hope they bring in a Vetta / Premier collection at SS. It did extremely well for me when iStock first brought it in at the $75 range. My earnings more than doubled with Vetta, it also motivated me to produce much

That would go against nearly all of their marketing.  If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc..  They aren't going to make a higher priced collection in Shutterstock anytime soon, it would be very inconsistent with their marketing.

They already have a higher-priced Shutterstock collection for large enterprises—according to the blog post, they have for four years.

It's not a higher priced collection.  They are talking about enterprise customers who pay more for the same images because they get indemnification, multi seat licenses, ability to transfer images to clients, etc...   From what they've said it looks like the new collection will be placed in front of those buyers which will result in more sales from enterprise customers not a higher priced collection, just more sales from buyers who pay more for more rights.

Correct. 

Quote from: dirkr on March 18, 2015, 13:25
The open questions are is this really separate (or are the same images available via a normal Shutterstock customer account), how are images / contributors chosen, how is the pricing, how is the commission structure etc.

Nothing regarding these questions is really available.

If I had to guess I would say that those images will be available to everyone as well, the pricing will be the same, and royalties will be the same.  You'll get a boost in search for enterprise customers.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 13:29

Quote from: dirkr on March 18, 2015, 13:25
The open questions are is this really separate (or are the same images available via a normal Shutterstock customer account), how are images / contributors chosen, how is the pricing, how is the commission structure etc.

Nothing regarding these questions is really available.

If I had to guess I would say that those images will be available to everyone as well, the pricing will be the same, and royalties will be the same.  You'll get a boost in search for enterprise customers.

That would be my guess as well.

I guess I was responding to TickStock's assertion that it goes against "nearly all of their marketing. If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc.."

That marketing is only what the general public sees. I'm guessing their marketing to large enterprises is quite different. In that case there *is* a signature required, there is some favoritism (Offset, Premier), there are additional services and products offered (free comp images, "custom license packages, additional indemnification, and help with researching the collection"). Help with researching the collection, in my experience, means a phone call with a human being who searches through images and sends over a bunch to the art director or art buyer for consideration. That's curation and favoritism in a way.

Premier Select might not end up being a completely separate higher-priced collection, but I don't know for sure. Maybe they'll discover large enterprise customers prefer images that aren't available to the general public, because they want some small assurance that the image they're licensing isn't appearing everywhere. I'm sure they'd test to see if the loss of regular Shutterstock sales would be offset (HA!) by additional Select sales.

I'm don't think SS has a hard and fast rule against a separate Shutterstock collection. They already have Offset. Why not Premier Select as well? Who knows?

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 13:48
I guess I was responding to TickStock's assertion that it goes against "nearly all of their marketing. If you've looked recently it's all about one collection, every image the same price, no favoritism in the search, no signature required, etc.."

That marketing is only what the general public sees. I'm guessing their marketing to large enterprises is quite different. In that case there *is* a signature required, there is some favoritism (Offset, Premier), there are additional services and products offered (free comp images, "custom license packages, additional indemnification, and help with researching the collection"). Help with researching the collection, in my experience, means a phone call with a human being who searches through images and sends over a bunch to the art director or art buyer for consideration. That's curation and favoritism in a way.

Premier Select might not end up being a completely separate higher-priced collection, but I don't know for sure. Maybe they'll discover large enterprise customers prefer images that aren't available to the general public, because they want some small assurance that the image they're licensing isn't appearing everywhere. I'm sure they'd test to see if the loss of regular Shutterstock sales would be offset (HA!) by additional Select sales.

I'm don't think SS has a hard and fast rule against a separate Shutterstock collection. They already have Offset. Why not Premier Select as well? Who knows?

They advertise Premier as having simple one price pricing for all images.  Offset isn't a SS collection, it's a different brand. The signature part of their advertising refers to iStock's signature collection, they are saying they only have one collection not a higher priced and a lower priced one.
The biggest reasons they won't have a separate collection (in a meaningful sense with different royalties or prices) on SS is that it would complicate their pricing and force them to change their enitre advertising approach both of which have been consistent for about a decade.  It would be a fundamental change, I don't see that happening or get that sense from the blog post.

Are people unaware that Offset is a Shutterstock sub-brand?

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 14:03
Are people unaware that Offset is a Shutterstock brand?

It's different than a SS collection, you can't go on SS and search that "collection".  They've tried to keep them separate so you see SS as micro and Offset as macro.

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 14:03
Are people unaware that Offset is a Shutterstock sub-brand?

There is no mention of SS anywhere on the site

http://www.offset.com/about

Its owned by Jon, thats it.

Ad agencies and art directors know Offset is a Shutterstock sub-brand. One complaint they have is that they love the curated feel of Offset vs. Shutterstock, but Offset doesn't have enough images. So they may search on Offset first, but then they go to Shutterstock. A Premier Select collection pulled from the huge Shutterstock library would, relatively quickly, give them access to many more images that are also curated. (It would be quicker than trying to bring aboard many more award-winning, established pro photographers and illustrators to Offset.) I think that's why SS is testing the Select idea. Educated guess.

I mean, there are many really amazing images on SS. It makes sense to market those to higher-paying customers in a thoughtful way. And it's kind of unfair to shut big contributors, who have helped SS succeed, out of the big enterprise opportunities, which is sort of what Offset does.

Quote from: Shelma1 on March 18, 2015, 14:20
A Premier Select collection pulled from the huge Shutterstock library would, relatively quickly, give them access to many more images that are also curated.

I think that's what I've been saying.  It sounds like a curated collection that will get a best match boost for enterprise (premier) customers.

How does this bode for the typical,  not superstar contrib?  Will their sales just decline furthrr?

Quote from: PixelBytes on March 18, 2015, 17:44
How does this bode for the typical,  not superstar contrib?  Will their sales just decline furthrr?

If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51
If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

I prefer to think we will all get higher-value sales through enterprise users. Why not? Seems to be happening already to many of us.

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:06

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51
If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

I prefer to think we will all get higher-value sales through enterprise users. Why not? Seems to be happening already to many of us.

If Shutterstock is pushing premier select images to buyers those images are more likely to be bought, that's the point.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 19:09

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:06

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51
If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

I prefer to think we will all get higher-value sales through enterprise users. Why not? Seems to be happening already to many of us.

If Shutterstock is pushing premier select images to buyers those images are more likely to be bought, that's the point.

True. Could happen that way.

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:12

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 19:09

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:06

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51
If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

I prefer to think we will all get higher-value sales through enterprise users. Why not? Seems to be happening already to many of us.

If Shutterstock is pushing premier select images to buyers those images are more likely to be bought, that's the point.

True. Could happen that way too.

It wouldn't be much of a benefit to those contributors if it didn't result in more sales.  The good news is that most contributors on this site are at the highest level so they will probably be invited.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51

Quote from: PixelBytes on March 18, 2015, 17:44
How does this bode for the typical,  not superstar contrib?  Will their sales just decline furthrr?

If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

That assumes that the same number of sales just gets re-distributed in a different way.
Which is one possible outcome.
But if these additional services allow Shutterstock to attract new customers or increase spending of existing customers, it may lead to an overall increase in sales.

Quote from: dirkr on March 18, 2015, 20:13

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51

Quote from: PixelBytes on March 18, 2015, 17:44
How does this bode for the typical,  not superstar contrib?  Will their sales just decline furthrr?

If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

That assumes that the same number of sales just gets re-distributed in a different way.
Which is one possible outcome.
But if these additional services allow Shutterstock to attract new customers or increase spending of existing customers, it may lead to an overall increase in sales.

Yeah, that's possible but it would be very hard for contributors to know if overall SODs are up and even if you knew that it would be next to impossible to know how much of that was caused by having the premier select collection.  I'm sure part of the idea is to grow enterprise sales along with rewarding the most important contributors but it would take a lot of data that won't be available to know which things are causing growth.  There are a lot of parts to the enterprise system from all the additional rights, support, offset images, etc...  It also depends how aggressively they promote those images, if SS is helping find the right image a large percentage of the time then they could really push which content they want.

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 19:14

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:12

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 19:09

Quote from: marthamarks on March 18, 2015, 19:06

Quote from: tickstock on March 18, 2015, 17:51
If some people get a better match for enterprise users they will probably get more SOD sales so others would probably get less.

I prefer to think we will all get higher-value sales through enterprise users. Why not? Seems to be happening already to many of us.

If Shutterstock is pushing premier select images to buyers those images are more likely to be bought, that's the point.

True. Could happen that way too.

It wouldn't be much of a benefit to those contributors if it didn't result in more sales.  The good news is that most contributors on this site are at the highest level so they will probably be invited.

This is why I suspect that it isn't contributors at the highest level. It will be top earners as defined by SS.I am at the highest level with +$40k in total sales. But what if they define top earners as $75k? Or a sliding scale that extrapolates $$ potential over XX years given current monthly sales? So if $75k is the ceiling and 5 year earnings is the baseline of time, it would be (($75k/5 years)/12 months)=$1250 a month. So this theory would say that anyone making $1250 a month has the potential to make $75K in five years and they are in. Something along those lines.

They put it out on a blog post not a private email, I think that probably means it will be for a large group of contributors. 

I guess we are seeing the reason why SS bought WebDam, they have big plans and strategically place themselves in the best position to reach those goals

So far no details have been given, and the details are what will make the difference to us.

One of the great things about SS in the past was that any image could rise or fall on its merits and unlike many sites it wasn't based on how the artist did overall or subject to the whims of random search changes. That is somewhat no longer true. If this means that if you aren't in the club you get almost no big SODs, that will be unfortunate for everyone that doesn't make the club.