Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 07:53

QuoteJust got a request so have something concrete rather than speculation $12.50 each for four images.....but very run of the mill  location based. If I happened to live near its something I could do in minutes and probably incorporate into a wider shoot. If they didn't sell they wouldn't identify the brand so I could put up for sale....precisely what this business model is suited to.

In Germany?

I got the same, apparently. Would be a breeze of a shoot if I lived there or had visited. Just general cityscapes.

Same here, Germany. Apart from $12 per image, what is amazing is that no expense budget is provided. They know where I live (mentioned in my profile) and that it would take at least one-hour flight or 5-hour drive, the cost of transportation alone would be multiple times the $50 fee. So why sending this brief at all to people like me?

On the good side, they appear to accept one's archive photos if they match the brief, so no need to travel. But chances that I have pictures from that location which weren't published elsewhere are slim.

Does anybody know whether rejecting the offer affects your points compared to, say, ignoring it until its expiry?

Quote from: beketoff on September 28, 2017, 11:09

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 07:53

QuoteJust got a request so have something concrete rather than speculation $12.50 each for four images.....but very run of the mill  location based. If I happened to live near its something I could do in minutes and probably incorporate into a wider shoot. If they didn't sell they wouldn't identify the brand so I could put up for sale....precisely what this business model is suited to.

In Germany?

I got the same, apparently. Would be a breeze of a shoot if I lived there or had visited. Just general cityscapes.

Same here, Germany. Apart from $12 per image, what is amazing is that no expense budget is provided. They know where I live (mentioned in my profile) and that it would take at least one-hour flight or 5-hour drive, the cost of transportation alone would be multiple times the $50 fee. So why sending this brief at all to people like me?

On the good side, they appear to accept one's archive photos if they match the brief, so no need to travel. But chances that I have pictures from that location which weren't published elsewhere are slim.

Does anybody know whether rejecting the offer affects your points compared to, say, ignoring it until its expiry?

Was it Hannover?

You'd be willing to sell Shutterstock worldwide perpetual copyright to photos in your portfolio for $12, less than one EL.

The more I think about it the more I think there are no clients; SS is just writing briefs themselves to get people to sell them copyrights to photos for $12.

I remember people being absolutely incensed that SS was doing away with the standard $28 for an EL and replacing it with what might be (and has turned out to be, in most cases) less than $28 for an EL. Some people opted out of ELs because of it.

Yet you still own the copyright to those images, and they still sell for all kinds of prices in all kinds of places.

But for $12, you'll give your rights away, accept the condition that you can never mention Shutterstock in relation to those images, accept that you can never sue Shutterstock, and allow Shutterstock to compile a portfolio of your images that competes with you, tweaking their secret algorithm to place the images you sold to them at the top of the search while pushing your port further down.

What a brilliant way to plump up Offset, too. Clients have been complaining about the lack of choice. Get photographers to submit their best work to fictitious assignments, buy the copyright from them for $12. Now those images have to be removed from all other sites because SS owns the copyright. SS puts the best of the best on Offset and the rest on SS, and they're now branded the exclusive Offset or Shutterstock collection, and they always appear at the top of page 1 in any search.

Look how many of you were invited to submit photos for one location in Germany.

QuoteThe more I think about it the more I think there are no clients; SS is just writing briefs themselves to get people to sell them copyrights to photos for $12.

That would be fraud / misrepresentation and for a public company the worst kind of publicity imaginable. I don't think they would stoop this low but then again I wear rose-coloured sunglasses 

I got an email from a Nigerian prince this morning. He says if I sell him the copyright to my best-selling illustrations for $12 it will allow him to buy his sick mother a plane ticket home. Should I do it? Or do you think t's some sort of scam?

Quote from: Shelma1 on September 28, 2017, 11:58
What a brilliant way to plump up Offset, too. Clients have been complaining about the lack of choice. Get photographers to submit their best work to fictitious assignments, buy the copyright from them for $12. Now those images have to be removed from all other sites because SS owns the copyright. SS puts the best of the best on Offset and the rest on SS, and they're now branded the exclusive Offset or Shutterstock collection, and they always appear at the top of page 1 in any search.

Look how many of you were invited to submit photos for one location in Germany.

I actually live in that exact location. But I still have no intention in selling the rights for $50/4 images. I just signed up to see for myself what they have to offer.

Just to get the facts straight:
You sell the rights to the client - not to SS.
The website was just rebranded and has been around for a while as Flashstock. So it´s not a new scheme SS came up with.

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 12:04

QuoteThe more I think about it the more I think there are no clients; SS is just writing briefs themselves to get people to sell them copyrights to photos for $12.

That would be fraud / misrepresentation and for a public company the worst kind of publicity imaginable. I don't think they would stoop this low but then again I wear rose-coloured sunglasses 

Whether the assignments are fictitious or not, the outcome is the same. You sell SS the copyright to your best work for $12.

Quote from: amabu on September 28, 2017, 12:14

Quote from: Shelma1 on September 28, 2017, 11:58
What a brilliant way to plump up Offset, too. Clients have been complaining about the lack of choice. Get photographers to submit their best work to fictitious assignments, buy the copyright from them for $12. Now those images have to be removed from all other sites because SS owns the copyright. SS puts the best of the best on Offset and the rest on SS, and they're now branded the exclusive Offset or Shutterstock collection, and they always appear at the top of page 1 in any search.

Look how many of you were invited to submit photos for one location in Germany.

I actually live in that exact location. But I still have no intention in selling the rights for $50/4 images. I just signed up to see for myself what they have to offer.

Just to get the facts straight:
You sell the rights to the client - not to SS.
The website was just rebranded and has been around for a while as Flashstock. So it´s not a new scheme SS came up with.

Do you sell the rights to the client? It's hard to tell from the "ownership" language posted earlier.

In that case you're willing to sell a corporation your perpetual worldwide copyright for less than one EL. And any images from your existing port would have to be taken down from all other sites, because the client would own the copyright.

(That's "you" plural, not you in particular.)

QuoteIn that case you're willing to sell a corporation your perpetual worldwide copyright for less than one EL. And any images from your existing port would have to be taken down from all other sites, because the client would own the copyright.

Yeah, I think in this case it's a no brainer. I'd go get some nice cityscape shots...probably take about 2 hours then another hour post-processing them. So that's about 3 hours of work for $50. Then I'd grab a burger. No dessert though as I'm looking after my bootylicious body (see other thread about body image)

For bigger jobs requiring much more investment perhaps it's not worth it but I'll see it on a case-by-case basis.

I have edited the OP with the SUBMISSION AGREEMENT

QuoteBy providing a Submission to us that we accept and compensate you for ("Paid Submission"), you will thereby assign to us and we will own, all right, title and interest in and to that Paid Submission, irrevocably, perpetually and without any limitation or restriction whatsoever. Without limiting the generality of the preceding sentence, upon receipt of each Paid Submission, we will have the exclusive, irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to use, reproduce, display, electronically transmit, distribute, publish, broadcast, modify, edit, combine with the work of others, make derivative works from and otherwise exploit each of your Paid Submissions, and to grant any of those rights to others, for any purpose whatsoever, and on any terms determined by us in our sole discretion.

I wonder what they mean by "make derivative works"  Probably minor compared to the other rights which SS would acquire.

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 07:53

QuoteJust got a request so have something concrete rather than speculation $12.50 each for four images.....but very run of the mill  location based. If I happened to live near its something I could do in minutes and probably incorporate into a wider shoot. If they didn't sell they wouldn't identify the brand so I could put up for sale....precisely what this business model is suited to.

In Germany?

I got the same, apparently. Would be a breeze of a shoot if I lived there or had visited. Just general cityscapes.

Yeah sounds like it....thinking I need to have a back up stock of images for likely places ;-).

Quote from: Shelma1 on September 28, 2017, 12:15

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 12:04

QuoteThe more I think about it the more I think there are no clients; SS is just writing briefs themselves to get people to sell them copyrights to photos for $12.

That would be fraud / misrepresentation and for a public company the worst kind of publicity imaginable. I don't think they would stoop this low but then again I wear rose-coloured sunglasses 

Whether the assignments are fictitious or not, the outcome is the same. You sell SS the copyright to your best work for $12.

Who said anything about best work? These would be run of the mill shots of which there are thousands similar available for RF sale. I certainly would be doing anything that a) Cost a lot to produce b) I thought was of higher quality than the sale price warrants......comparing these assignments with the top end is fallacious and if anyone is daft enough to be investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in shoots like this then they only have themselves to blame.

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 13:28

QuoteIn that case you're willing to sell a corporation your perpetual worldwide copyright for less than one EL. And any images from your existing port would have to be taken down from all other sites, because the client would own the copyright.

Yeah, I think in this case it's a no brainer. I'd go get some nice cityscape shots...probably take about 2 hours then another hour post-processing them. So that's about 3 hours of work for $50. Then I'd grab a burger. No dessert though as I'm looking after my bootylicious body (see other thread about body image)

For bigger jobs requiring much more investment perhaps it's not worth it but I'll see it on a case-by-case basis.

Yes thats exactly the correct approach as I said if I was in the area id combine this with other work for stock and the cost would be negligible.

Quote from: beketoff on September 28, 2017, 11:09

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 07:53

QuoteJust got a request so have something concrete rather than speculation $12.50 each for four images.....but very run of the mill  location based. If I happened to live near its something I could do in minutes and probably incorporate into a wider shoot. If they didn't sell they wouldn't identify the brand so I could put up for sale....precisely what this business model is suited to.

In Germany?

I got the same, apparently. Would be a breeze of a shoot if I lived there or had visited. Just general cityscapes.

Same here, Germany. Apart from $12 per image, what is amazing is that no expense budget is provided. They know where I live (mentioned in my profile) and that it would take at least one-hour flight or 5-hour drive, the cost of transportation alone would be multiple times the $50 fee. So why sending this brief at all to people like me?

On the good side, they appear to accept one's archive photos if they match the brief, so no need to travel. But chances that I have pictures from that location which weren't published elsewhere are slim.

Does anybody know whether rejecting the offer affects your points compared to, say, ignoring it until its expiry?

I'm in UK and got it....doesn't really fill me with confidence about the sophistication of their IT specially if I lose points for turning down work for locations 100s of miles away.

Europe has always been something strange for US inhabitants.

It reminds me of the American guy calling from London asking which underground line he has to take to meet me in Paris ^^

Quote from: treps on September 28, 2017, 18:45
Europe has always been something strange for US inhabitants.

It reminds me of the American guy calling from London asking which underground line he has to take to meet me in Paris ^^

Well, since you can take a train from London to Paris it isn't that strange, is it?

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on September 28, 2017, 20:33

Quote from: treps on September 28, 2017, 18:45
Europe has always been something strange for US inhabitants.

It reminds me of the American guy calling from London asking which underground line he has to take to meet me in Paris ^^

Well, since you can take a train from London to Paris it isn't that strange, is it?

Yes a 3 hour ride in train, not exactly a fast underground commute

Quote from: treps on September 28, 2017, 20:48
Yes a 3 hour ride in train, not exactly a fast underground commute

Yes, he made the mistake of asking which underground instead of which train. Still, not that strange.

3 hours is still nothing for an American to get anywhere. Let alone from a capital in one country to the capital in another.

Quote from: Pauws99 on September 28, 2017, 14:51
I'm in UK and got it....doesn't really fill me with confidence about the sophistication of their IT specially if I lose points for turning down work for locations 100s of miles away.

Back to the question how someone's points might "unexpectedly" disappear  ...

Quote from: Shelma1 on September 28, 2017, 11:39
You'd be willing to sell Shutterstock worldwide perpetual copyright to photos in your portfolio for $12, less than one EL.

The more I think about it the more I think there are no clients; SS is just writing briefs themselves to get people to sell them copyrights to photos for $12.

I remember people being absolutely incensed that SS was doing away with the standard $28 for an EL and replacing it with what might be (and has turned out to be, in most cases) less than $28 for an EL. Some people opted out of ELs because of it.

Yet you still own the copyright to those images, and they still sell for all kinds of prices in all kinds of places.

But for $12, you'll give your rights away, accept the condition that you can never mention Shutterstock in relation to those images, accept that you can never sue Shutterstock, and allow Shutterstock to compile a portfolio of your images that competes with you, tweaking their secret algorithm to place the images you sold to them at the top of the search while pushing your port further down.

That's exactly what I thought when I read that they were after generic pics of a city. I thought DT's offer of $25 for an accepted assignment pic was lousy! I joined this just to check it out but I'm pretty sure I won't be accumulating any points. I also doubt if I would have an assignment offer as I'm in the back of beyond down under.

ETA: Oops, spoke too soon! Just checked my email. I have an OVERSEAS assignment for $50 for 4 shots! But of course if I have pics from a previous visit I can use those! OMG this just gets better doesn't it?! They're dreamin!!

Quote from: Brasilnut on September 28, 2017, 14:29

QuoteBy providing a Submission to us that we accept and compensate you for ("Paid Submission"), you will thereby assign to us and we will own, all right, title and interest in and to that Paid Submission, irrevocably, perpetually and without any limitation or restriction whatsoever. Without limiting the generality of the preceding sentence, upon receipt of each Paid Submission, we will have the exclusive, irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to use, reproduce, display, electronically transmit, distribute, publish, broadcast, modify, edit, combine with the work of others, make derivative works from and otherwise exploit each of your Paid Submissions, and to grant any of those rights to others, for any purpose whatsoever, and on any terms determined by us in our sole discretion.

I wonder what they mean by "make derivative works"  Probably minor compared to the other rights which SS would acquire.

I'm very surprised that they're not explicitly forbidding you to do anything with sister/similar images.

And voila, just another assignment offer in my mailbox. Same (final) customer, same fee ($50 for 5 photos), but location...is in India. I'm located in Europe. No expense budget. This is pathetic and so disappointing.

Coupled with a lousy launch of new stats feature on iStock today, thinking of quitting this business at all.

I have got 3 assignments this morning.

With this text: "We've got a new assignment available for you in your Shutterstock Custom account. However, we've noticed that you haven't accepted the Shutterstock Custom End User Terms of Service yet. You must do so before you can accept the assignment terms."

I refused sending the following email:
_____________
I don't accept the assignment terms:
"By providing a Submission to us that we accept and compensate you for ("Paid Submission"), you will thereby assign to us and we will own, all right, title and interest in and to that Paid Submission, irrevocably, perpetually and without any limitation or restriction whatsoever. Without limiting the generality of the preceding sentence, upon receipt of each Paid Submission, we will have the exclusive, irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to use, reproduce, display, electronically transmit, distribute, publish, broadcast, modify, edit, combine with the work of others, make derivative works from and otherwise exploit each of your Paid Submissions, and to grant any of those rights to others, for any purpose whatsoever, and on any terms determined by us in our sole discretion. You agree that by providing a Paid Submission to us, you will thereby waive all moral rights or any similar rights you may have in relation to that Paid Submission."

It is just inadmissible for me
_____________

I think that we should all do something similar, systematically.