Any thoughts on why Facebook and IG are down? Of course they are not removing any data that might hurt them from what the whistleblower said 

Here is some info that I don't understand.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/10/facebook-instagram-whatsapp-and-oculus-are-down-heres-what-we-know/

Ha! I just wasted time twice trying to send an Insta post, trying to figure out why I couldn't and assuming it was my fault! Why do I always assume that?!

The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Some things are no coincidence. It looks like an attack.

aaaah great opportunity for the conspiracy nutcases, like believing 5G causes covid and such, the world is a moronic place

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

I recorded that, just can't wait to watch how they manipulate people for the company gains.

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 21:18
Any thoughts on why Facebook and IG are down? Of course they are not removing any data that might hurt them from what the whistleblower said 

No thoughts, I don't really use FB and Instagram I thought died years ago? Messenger is so stupid, I'm thinking of blocking everyone, but now and then, on a rare month, I'd actually like to see something from a specific friend.

I think it was Netflix's 'The Social Dilemma' that was really scary, Former employees of Google, Facebook and others, reveal the inside goals and directives. Some of it is drama, but based on history and reality.

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Based on that logic, this forum may also be guilty.

We can't blame the paper producer for the news printed on a newspaper, or the post office for delivering hate mail, or newspapers spreading misinformation.

Hate, violence and misinformation existed long before FB.
It's human nature. People on FB are hateful, violent and liars, not FB.

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 04, 2021, 23:23

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Based on that logic, this forum may also be guilty.

We can't blame the paper producer for the news printed on a newspaper, or the post office for delivering hate mail, or newspapers spreading misinformation.

Hate, violence and misinformation existed long before FB.
It's human nature. People on FB are hateful, violent and liars, not FB.

NRA always states--People kill people not guns. I do agree with that people are the ones responsible. Just like on this forum we can remove nasty comments if needed.

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 23:43

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 04, 2021, 23:23

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Based on that logic, this forum may also be guilty.

We can't blame the paper producer for the news printed on a newspaper, or the post office for delivering hate mail, or newspapers spreading misinformation.

Hate, violence and misinformation existed long before FB.
It's human nature. People on FB are hateful, violent and liars, not FB.

NRA always states--People kill people not guns. I do agree with that people are the ones responsible. Just like on this forum we can remove nasty comments if needed.

And to a large extent, FB is already deleting or hiding nasty posts. Serial offenders are banned, including a former president.

Obviously these people are accusing FB of censorship, while as we can see in that report, some others are blaming FB for not doing enough policing.

Both groups are wrong. FB is a private company and it should be free to design its own rules, to prosper or die as a consequence of its decisions.
Those who don't like it, from either side of the argument, are free to leave and chose a competitor.

Whatever, Fb is up now as are Ig and WhatsApp. And although I got a message from Ig that they couldn't connect me, I've had some comments and likes over the past hour on the image I was trying to upload. 

I find kind of "cool" FB being down. Just a little vacation from these social networks can be good for all of us.
Maybe it should even happen more often   

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 04, 2021, 23:56

And to a large extent, FB is already deleting or hiding nasty posts. Serial offenders are banned, including a former president.

Obviously these people are accusing FB of censorship, while as we can see in that report, some others are blaming FB for not doing enough policing.

Both groups are wrong. FB is a private company and it should be free to design its own rules, to prosper or die as a consequence of its decisions.
Those who don't like it, from either side of the argument, are free to leave and chose a competitor.

FB is more a public utility or  common carrier ( eg,  corporations that provide electric, gas, water, heat, and television cable systems) so the question of blocking/ censorship is more complicated (and there is no real competition, much like google for search). i appreciate (and use) both companies -- yet still have concerns.  biggest is the insidious effects of their search & suggestion algorithms - we're directed towards increasingly polarized results, influenced & furthered by the companies' reliance on clicks/advertising

yet, as public utilities, neither company has the total freedom that microstock agencies, eg, have to require ToS, etc

FB has isolated some of the most egregious offenders, but it quickly becomes subjective for less obvious offensive speech

Quote from: cascoly on October 05, 2021, 21:34
(and there is no real competition, much like google for search)

That is not really true, there is plenty of competition.
Twitter and TikTok saw a massive traffic spike when FB went down.
There is Youtube, there is Reddit, there is Discord, there is this forum and many others.
There are many alternatives, ready to take over as soon as FB makes a mistake.

And there is also Parler and Rumble, 8chan/8kan, and the deep-web, for those serial offenders who were banned from FB and Twitter.  Even The My Pillow Guy has his own social media site. Well... sort of. 

But users simply like FB more. For the time being.

Yeah, people could go back to the ever popular MySpace or Vero? I'm still one of the "none of the above" and it's bad enough that I spend too much time on MSG.

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 05, 2021, 21:46

Quote from: cascoly on October 05, 2021, 21:34
(and there is no real competition, much like google for search)

That is not really true, there is plenty of competition.
Twitter and TikTok saw a massive traffic spike when FB went down.
There is Youtube, there is Reddit, there is Discord, there is this forum and many others.
There are many alternatives, ready to take over as soon as FB makes a mistake.

And there is also Parler and Rumble, 8chan/8kan, and the deep-web, for those serial offenders who were banned from FB and Twitter.  Even The My Pillow Guy has his own social media site. Well... sort of. 

But users simply like FB more. For the time being.

all minor league compared to FB -- and the fact that these sites show improved traffic when FB is down only enforces my point that FB has little effective competition. 

Quote from: cascoly on October 07, 2021, 03:13

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 05, 2021, 21:46

Quote from: cascoly on October 05, 2021, 21:34
(and there is no real competition, much like google for search)

That is not really true, there is plenty of competition.
Twitter and TikTok saw a massive traffic spike when FB went down.
There is Youtube, there is Reddit, there is Discord, there is this forum and many others.
There are many alternatives, ready to take over as soon as FB makes a mistake.

And there is also Parler and Rumble, 8chan/8kan, and the deep-web, for those serial offenders who were banned from FB and Twitter.  Even The My Pillow Guy has his own social media site. Well... sort of. 

But users simply like FB more. For the time being.

all minor league compared to FB -- and the fact that these sites show improved traffic when FB is down only enforces my point that FB has little effective competition.

For the time being FB is the biggest in the field, indeed.
That's because they offer a service customers like, like it or not  .
Somebody must be number one and they shouldn't be blamed for this.

Anyway, TikTok and Youtube are in the same league, with TikTok growing fast in 2021.

Here is an interesting clip showing the evolution of social media.
Check the ebb and flow, typical to a competitive market.

https://youtu.be/p-u2mENgWdQ

As I said, as soon as FB will start making mistakes, many of its competitors will be ready to step in and take over the first spot.

Uncle Pete mentioned MySpace, but closer to photography, just check how popular was Flickr, back in the day, until they got comfy and failed to innovate, opening the field for Instagram. That's just normal in a competitive market.

No company stays number one long-term unless it has government back-up through special regulations. If you think about it, that was the case last year, for a while, when the previous administration tried to block TikTok from competing with FB.

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 04, 2021, 23:23

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Based on that logic, this forum may also be guilty.

We can't blame the paper producer for the news printed on a newspaper, or the post office for delivering hate mail, or newspapers spreading misinformation.

Hate, violence and misinformation existed long before FB.
It's human nature. People on FB are hateful, violent and liars, not FB.

Sorry but you don't seem to understand how facebook works or why it has come under fire for its policies

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on October 07, 2021, 20:15

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 04, 2021, 23:23

Quote from: For Real on October 04, 2021, 22:16
The outage came the morning after "60 Minutes" aired a segment in which Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen claimed the company is aware of how its platforms are used to spread hate, violence and misinformation, and that Facebook has tried to hide that evidence. Facebook has pushed back on those claims.

Based on that logic, this forum may also be guilty.

We can't blame the paper producer for the news printed on a newspaper, or the post office for delivering hate mail, or newspapers spreading misinformation.

Hate, violence and misinformation existed long before FB.
It's human nature. People on FB are hateful, violent and liars, not FB.

Sorry but you don't seem to understand how facebook works or why it has come under fire for its policies

That's always a possibility. Please elaborate!

It isn't just that it hosts the hate or misinfornation. It's that it uniformly pushes the hate and misinformation over other speech. Because that kind of content maximises engagement and keeps people clicking. When you have an endless supply of content and your algorithm buries everything but the worst of it you aren't just the paper a news paper is written on. You are choosing the content to present to the reader, so something more akin to the newspaper editor. Facebook is highly curated by human beings, they just do it via algorithms.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-mark-zuckerberg-should-be-on-trial-for-crimes/id1373812661?i=1000492096869

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on October 08, 2021, 06:14
It isn't just that it hosts the hate or misinfornation. It's that it uniformly pushes the hate and misinformation over other speech. Because that kind of content maximises engagement and keeps people clicking. When you have an endless supply of content and your algorithm buries everything but the worst of it you aren't just the paper a news paper is written on. You are choosing the content to present to the reader, so something more akin to the newspaper editor. Facebook is highly curated by human beings, they just do it via algorithms.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-mark-zuckerberg-should-be-on-trial-for-crimes/id1373812661?i=1000492096869

They do what their users want, and that's why FB is so popular.

Some like you are accusing them for being too tolerant, others are accusing them of censorship.

So where do you want to draw the line? Where it fits your own interests?

Is the fact that the most powerful president in the world got banned, while in power, for promoting lies and misinformation not good enough for you? Not impressed? Do you want more?
BTW, I just read that now he is begging a judge to "re-instate" him. He desperately wants on FB again.

Or maybe you want the government to regulate and start censoring other opposition outlets like NewsMax, OAN, FoxNews because they also spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard?

But why stopping here?
They should also censor the republican party, because they spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.
Or specific elected individuals who spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.

Or maybe you want specific movies or video games to be banned because "they promote hate and violence". Maybe you want Tarantino to be banned, too.

Even if you would like this too, that's not how democracy works. That's what North Korea is doing.

The government should stay out of all this. People should be free to make their own choices. If people flock to FB, it's because they like it. No government should tell them what to like.

You go ahead and carry on arguing against what you dreamed I said. Life's too short to engage with libertarians on the internet.

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on October 08, 2021, 13:19
You go ahead and carry on arguing against what you dreamed I said. Life's too short to engage with libertarians on the internet.

That's a powerful argument when you have no argument left. 
Btw, I'm not a libertarian and never voted for one. 

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 08, 2021, 13:11

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on October 08, 2021, 06:14
It isn't just that it hosts the hate or misinfornation. It's that it uniformly pushes the hate and misinformation over other speech. Because that kind of content maximises engagement and keeps people clicking. When you have an endless supply of content and your algorithm buries everything but the worst of it you aren't just the paper a news paper is written on. You are choosing the content to present to the reader, so something more akin to the newspaper editor. Facebook is highly curated by human beings, they just do it via algorithms.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-mark-zuckerberg-should-be-on-trial-for-crimes/id1373812661?i=1000492096869

They do what their users want, and that's why FB is so popular.

Some like you are accusing them for being too tolerant, others are accusing them of censorship.

So where do you want to draw the line? Where it fits your own interests?

Is the fact that the most powerful president in the world got banned, while in power, for promoting lies and misinformation not good enough for you? Not impressed? Do you want more?
BTW, I just read that now he is begging a judge to "re-instate" him. He desperately wants on FB again.

Or maybe you want the government to regulate and start censoring other opposition outlets like NewsMax, OAN, FoxNews because they also spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard?

But why stopping here?
They should also censor the republican party, because they spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.
Or specific elected individuals who spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.

Or maybe you want specific movies or video games to be banned because "they promote violence". Maybe you want Tarantino to be banned, too.

Even if you would like this too, that's not how democracy works. That's what North Korea is doing.

The government should stay out of all this. People should be free to make their own choices. If people flock to FB, it's because they like it. No government should tell them what to like.

So, are you happy for everyone to watch a video of a child being sexually abused?

Quote from: Suspect on October 08, 2021, 13:29

Quote from: Zero Talent on October 08, 2021, 13:11

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on October 08, 2021, 06:14
It isn't just that it hosts the hate or misinfornation. It's that it uniformly pushes the hate and misinformation over other speech. Because that kind of content maximises engagement and keeps people clicking. When you have an endless supply of content and your algorithm buries everything but the worst of it you aren't just the paper a news paper is written on. You are choosing the content to present to the reader, so something more akin to the newspaper editor. Facebook is highly curated by human beings, they just do it via algorithms.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-mark-zuckerberg-should-be-on-trial-for-crimes/id1373812661?i=1000492096869

They do what their users want, and that's why FB is so popular.

Some like you are accusing them for being too tolerant, others are accusing them of censorship.

So where do you want to draw the line? Where it fits your own interests?

Is the fact that the most powerful president in the world got banned, while in power, for promoting lies and misinformation not good enough for you? Not impressed? Do you want more?
BTW, I just read that now he is begging a judge to "re-instate" him. He desperately wants on FB again.

Or maybe you want the government to regulate and start censoring other opposition outlets like NewsMax, OAN, FoxNews because they also spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard?

But why stopping here?
They should also censor the republican party, because they spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.
Or specific elected individuals who spread lies and misinformation, as per some arbitrary standard.

Or maybe you want specific movies or video games to be banned because "they promote violence". Maybe you want Tarantino to be banned, too.

Even if you would like this too, that's not how democracy works. That's what North Korea is doing.

The government should stay out of all this. People should be free to make their own choices. If people flock to FB, it's because they like it. No government should tell them what to like.

So, are you happy for everyone to watch a video of a child being sexually abused?

Is that what FB is accused of? I doubt!

FB has already drawn that line way beyond that, without any push from the government.
They drew that line because they know very well that this bad, and they know very well that their users are also considering this very bad. There is no need for a government to draw the line so low, when FB already did it, way beyond this limit.

The government should hunt down criminals and child abusers. That's their job.