Generally speaking, it seems a fair payout system would be something like meeting a minimum amount in $$$$ or a minimum amount in time (e.g. a payout once a month if you do not meet a $$ minimum).

Redbubble is the only place I know of that will pay you whatever is in your account at the end of the year even if the minimum has not been reached, which I think is pretty decent of them

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on March 07, 2024, 21:52

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on March 07, 2024, 21:30

You signed up with the site when these payment terms were clearly stated - no changes, no subterfuge. Making totally false statements about the agency doesn't help anyone.

Thank you Jo Ann, that's exactly the point.

If one is  struggling to reach the payout limit, it might be the wrong agency for the portfolio.

Both good points, and when I reach $100 in 2027 I'm cashing out.   

DT has always been upfront and fair to us.

I suspect they have so many people at between $50 and $100 that it would be a great burden to change and have all those people, decide to cash out and leave, at the same time. That's all just how Microstock has changed, but DT holds their original contract TOS. Their choice.

As far as past experience, accounting and the laws, money held for commissions, cannot be invested or used, and is a liability, not an asset. The recent changes to the public corporations like Adobe and SS, are better for their bottom line on the annual and quarterly reports. DT reports to no one. But either way, holding our money is not something they would want to do, for financial gains. In the US and DT says they are in the US, it's illegal to use escrow money for any other purpose, you can only hold it for the person that owns the money. So the repeated accusations that somewhere isn't paying us, because they invest or get interest, is flawed.

What we consider fair or not fair, in 2024, I signed up in 2009 and that's what the terms were. DT has changed nothing.

Who says the money is in escrow? And if we really owned it DT would have a legal obligation to pay it out if we close our account

I tend to agree with Liz.   In my view outstanding balance, be it 1 USD or 99 USD, should be paid out when contributor requests that his account is closed.

I know this might sound funny, but why not just make more money?

While I think that $ 50 would be a more convenient payout limit at DT, I really see no reason to complain about them. They were No. 5 for me last year, and so far No. 3 this year, they frequently sell for good prices, and never below $ 0.33. Upload procedure is fast and simple, and they accept more or less all of what I submit. The key as always is regular uploads.

Quote from: zeljkok on March 10, 2024, 00:41
I tend to agree with Liz.   In my view outstanding balance, be it 1 USD or 99 USD, should be paid out when contributor requests that his account is closed.

You signed a contract when you joined that says otherwise. We can agree what's right and what should be, but you can't blame DT or accuse them of anything illegal.

Quote from: LizC on March 09, 2024, 18:33
Who says the money is in escrow? And if we really owned it DT would have a legal obligation to pay it out if we close our account

The money is owed as payment or commission. Go ask your accountant or read some law. You signed a contract, now you want to change, you must earn $100 to be paid, which means owed money is not payable until you reach $100. If you quit before earning $100, you get nothing.

Interesting to read that many are currently similarly stuck at 80 to 90 USD.

Dreamstime states as of March 2024 there are more than 1.2 million contributing photographers.

Assuming there are probably 200 thousand contributors in the same situation like us, this would equal almost 20 million USD in unpaid revenues.

With the current high interest rates on the market this is a good sum to invest.
Sounds like a kind of business model.

Quote from: Andrej.S. on March 10, 2024, 11:26
Interesting to read that many are currently similarly stuck at 80 to 90 USD.

Dreamstime states as of March 2024 there are more than 1.2 million contributing photographers.

Assuming there are probably 200 thousand contributors in the same situation like us, this would equal almost 20 million USD in unpaid revenues.

With the current high interest rates on the market this is a good sum to invest.
Sounds like a kind of business model.

Only if it is legal to invest the money. If it's illegal or they make bad investments, we're even more screwed. Investments aren't always profitable. I don't agree that it's a good business model and I don't think it's legal either.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 10, 2024, 18:10

Quote from: Andrej.S. on March 10, 2024, 11:26
Interesting to read that many are currently similarly stuck at 80 to 90 USD.

Dreamstime states as of March 2024 there are more than 1.2 million contributing photographers.

Assuming there are probably 200 thousand contributors in the same situation like us, this would equal almost 20 million USD in unpaid revenues.

With the current high interest rates on the market this is a good sum to invest.
Sounds like a kind of business model.

Only if it is legal to invest the money. If it's illegal or they make bad investments, we're even more screwed. Investments aren't always profitable. I don't agree that it's a good business model and I don't think it's legal either.

Yes, legally and in accounting terms it would be most likely at least a grey area, as they are obligations.
I think they have to account unpaid "outstandings of contributors" as reserves, comparable to pension liabilities for company pensions.

On the other hand, pension liabilities for company pensions may be invested in safe investments such as funds, bonds, fixed-term deposits, etc.
Currently you would get over 5% yield for 1Y US Bonds, what's not that bad if you think that S&P 500 is performing not much better.
https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us

Quote from: Andrej.S. on March 10, 2024, 21:51

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 10, 2024, 18:10

Quote from: Andrej.S. on March 10, 2024, 11:26
Interesting to read that many are currently similarly stuck at 80 to 90 USD.

Dreamstime states as of March 2024 there are more than 1.2 million contributing photographers.

Assuming there are probably 200 thousand contributors in the same situation like us, this would equal almost 20 million USD in unpaid revenues.

With the current high interest rates on the market this is a good sum to invest.
Sounds like a kind of business model.

Only if it is legal to invest the money. If it's illegal or they make bad investments, we're even more screwed. Investments aren't always profitable. I don't agree that it's a good business model and I don't think it's legal either.

Yes, legally and in accounting terms it would be most likely at least a grey area, as they are obligations.
I think they have to account unpaid "outstandings of contributors" as reserves, comparable to pension liabilities for company pensions.

On the other hand, pension liabilities for company pensions may be invested in safe investments such as funds, bonds, fixed-term deposits, etc.
Currently you would get over 5% yield for 1Y US Bonds, what's not that bad if you think that S&P 500 is performing not much better.
https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us

Thank you for your thoughtful insight!!

So I reached $100 payout and got paid recently.  Now I want to delete my account, but only way to do is to delete all my photos one by one and then they'll allow you to delete account.  Meanwhile, if you have sales, anything less than $100 will be donated to Dreamstime when you delete your account.  This really sucks. 

https://www.dreamstime.com/faq2030-how-can-i-delete-my-account

Quote from: LizC on March 09, 2024, 04:55
In three years I'm up to $87and it doesn't look like I'm going to reach $100 any time soon. And I think it is wrong and maybe even unethical  not to pay accumulated earnings to those who want to close their account.

If you've made $87 in three years then you're averaging $29 per year and should reach payout in less than six months if downloads continue as they have.

So far almost all the agencies that have closed have paid out at the end and DT seems to be doing OK.  No sense spending time worrying about something that likely will not happen, or at least not anytime soon.

Quote from: blvdone on April 29, 2024, 00:55
So I reached $100 payout and got paid recently.  Now I want to delete my account, but only way to do is to delete all my photos one by one and then they'll allow you to delete account.  Meanwhile, if you have sales, anything less than $100 will be donated to Dreamstime when you delete your account.  This really sucks. 

https://www.dreamstime.com/faq2030-how-can-i-delete-my-account

I don't remember exactly how it works but I'm pretty sure that you can only first disable a certain percentage of content and then over time you can delete all of it.

anyway yes,this is an agency that should have a minimum payout of 25 usd.

but they are agencies that are really useless,you need to have thousands of contents to make maybe 10usd a month!

I also have about 50usd there but I've already deleted almost everything,at a certain point I thought about going back to uploading contents there,thank goodness I thought better of it!

I will never see my money that is there!

Quote from: Injustice for all on April 29, 2024, 04:10

Quote from: blvdone on April 29, 2024, 00:55
So I reached $100 payout and got paid recently.  Now I want to delete my account, but only way to do is to delete all my photos one by one and then they'll allow you to delete account.  Meanwhile, if you have sales, anything less than $100 will be donated to Dreamstime when you delete your account.  This really sucks. 

https://www.dreamstime.com/faq2030-how-can-i-delete-my-account

I don't remember exactly how it works but I'm pretty sure that you can only first disable a certain percentage of content and then over time you can delete all of it.

anyway yes,this is an agency that should have a minimum payout of 25 usd.

but they are agencies that are really useless,you need to have thousands of contents to make maybe 10usd a month!

I also have about 50usd there but I've already deleted almost everything,at a certain point I thought about going back to uploading contents there,thank goodness I thought better of it!

I will never see my money that is there!

Thank you for your donation to Dreamstime!!!

Quote from: blvdone on March 08, 2024, 16:13
Guess what?  I had a huge $2.00 photo sale yesterday and am closer to the $100 payout threshold now.  I may be able to cash out before they may go out in the worst case scenario.  Fingers crossed!!  But it's a tough decision to either immediately cash out once my balance hits $100 or keep going above $100.  Because if I cash out at $100, I don't know how long it'll take to get to $100 again.  If I keep it going above $100, if Dreamstime suddenly cease the operation, there's no guarantee I'll get my balance back.  I'll probably cash out at $100 and delete my port to be safe.  I can get like 20 Big Mac for $100.  Can't risk that.  If the payout minimum was $25, I would definitely keep going.

in another attempt to call out these silly 'worst case' scenarios - i'll bet you $100 that DT is still here a year from now

another reason for staying with DT is they're one of the few agencies that accepts AI images

@blvdone    I save time,and time is money,better to lose 50usd than continue to waste time there!

@cascoly I'm more than sure they will never lower the minimum payout,but tell me if I may ask,how much content do you have there,and how much do you earn in a year?Do you sell a lot of AI there?

Quote from: cascoly on April 29, 2024, 18:50
another reason for staying with DT is they're one of the few agencies that accepts AI images

Yes, accept but not really selling for me compare to Adobe

Quote from: blvdone on April 29, 2024, 00:55
So I reached $100 payout and got paid recently.  Now I want to delete my account, but only way to do is to delete all my photos one by one and then they'll allow you to delete account.  Meanwhile, if you have sales, anything less than $100 will be donated to Dreamstime when you delete your account.  This really sucks. 

https://www.dreamstime.com/faq2030-how-can-i-delete-my-account

You only partially read the terms and conditions:

Q: I am a contributor, how do I close my account?

You can disable all files approved more than six months ago at any time. You are allowed to disable 30% of files uploaded in the recent six months however 70% must be kept online for six months from their approval date. You can disable the remaining 70% after six months pass. Once the files are disabled, nobody is able to view/access them, except for you. The files will remain in our offline database for 12 months until all liabilities (refunds, potential copyright infringements, etc) concerning them are cleared off, then they are automatically deleted. The account cannot be closed until the above requirements of the contract expire. Accounts with activity (license/download) cannot be deleted, as they can be referenced internally in regards to past licensing. However, they can be blocked from public access. More account closure details can be found in our Terms and Conditions. https://www.dreamstime.com/terms#contributors

But still, if you are making so little, your donation to DT will also be little.  Small price to pay, if your goal is to close the account.

The alternative is, keep the account, ignore, don't upload and when you make $100, take the money and be happy that you did nothing to earn that? 

Quote from: cascoly on April 29, 2024, 18:49
in another attempt to call out these silly 'worst case' scenarios - i'll bet you $100 that DT is still here a year from now

Make it $10 maybe that's low enough that you can collect in a year? DT isn't going away for a long time.

Quote from: Injustice for all on April 30, 2024, 11:44
@blvdone    I save time,and time is money,better to lose 50usd than continue to waste time there!

@cascoly I'm more than sure they will never lower the minimum payout,but tell me if I may ask,how much content do you have there,and how much do you earn in a year?Do you sell a lot of AI there?

i've got about 30K  images, only about 150 ai so far.  upload i easy, so i continue even though  returns are low

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 30, 2024, 16:50...

Quote from: cascoly on April 29, 2024, 18:49
in another attempt to call out these silly 'worst case' scenarios - i'll bet you $100 that DT is still here a year from now

Make it $10 maybe that's low enough that you can collect in a year? DT isn't going away for a long time.

i'm not so much interested in making a few bucks as in exposing how little confidence they has in their claim.  made it $100 so they won't lose money when DT goes under! 

Quote from: cascoly on April 30, 2024, 18:20

Quote from: Injustice for all on April 30, 2024, 11:44
@blvdone    I save time,and time is money,better to lose 50usd than continue to waste time there!

@cascoly I'm more than sure they will never lower the minimum payout,but tell me if I may ask,how much content do you have there,and how much do you earn in a year?Do you sell a lot of AI there?

i've got about 30K  images, only about 150 ai so far.  upload i easy, so i continue even though  returns are low

ok thanks,and thanks also to "fotoroad"

my decision remains unchanged,they can keep the 50 usd,too bad it's not possible to actually give them to charity,instead of leaving them to dreamstime!