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Author Topic: Another Massive Best Match Shift  (Read 246855 times)

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ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #150 on: December 22, 2011, 17:41 »
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If you see Alamy search data you'll notice that most people will find something to suit them on the first page or two of a search. That's a "most suitable without wasting too much time" seach pattern, not a "must find the one-and-only best, must-have image" behaviour.
That behaviour is called satisficing.
However, I'm not sure that what you say can be borne out just by studying Alamy Measures. It could also be that many people give up after two or three pages. I'm always intrigued by those who make a very broad search and seem to wade through 1400 and up files without narrowing their search.


PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #151 on: December 22, 2011, 17:49 »
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So are you saying they're hoarding and downloading stuff they wouldn't buy or use?

As Cuppacoffee explained some time ago, the company she works for essentially uses the SS library as if it was one of their own servers. When they have a need for images they search on that subject, download what might be suitable and then use what works best. They don't hoard images because it is just easier and quicker to use SS's search facility to find whatever they need at the time that they need it. Having instant access to a library of 17M images, with 4-5M new ones arriving every year, is a fantastic business resource for just $2500 or thereabouts.

If buyers can grab a bunch of stuff they may not need could that lower their perception of the value of images?

lagereek

« Reply #152 on: December 22, 2011, 18:08 »
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Seriously! why do we even bother to write, post about this moron agency. Does it not feel as if your belly is getting spasticos coliticos.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #153 on: December 22, 2011, 18:11 »
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Seriously! why do we even bother to write, post about this moron agency. Does it not feel as if your belly is getting spasticos coliticos.
Are you intending to answer your own question?

« Reply #154 on: December 22, 2011, 19:24 »
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So are you saying they're hoarding and downloading stuff they wouldn't buy or use?

As Cuppacoffee explained some time ago, the company she works for essentially uses the SS library as if it was one of their own servers. When they have a need for images they search on that subject, download what might be suitable and then use what works best. They don't hoard images because it is just easier and quicker to use SS's search facility to find whatever they need at the time that they need it. Having instant access to a library of 17M images, with 4-5M new ones arriving every year, is a fantastic business resource for just $2500 or thereabouts.

If buyers can grab a bunch of stuff they may not need could that lower their perception of the value of images?

Possibly but what really 'devalues' images is the sheer quantity we are collectively uploading. Over-supply inevitably leads to falling prices. Always.

jbarber873

« Reply #155 on: December 22, 2011, 21:26 »
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Wondering if there is really a point to this? 

Yes, the winner gets bragging rights as the smartest person on MSG and a bowl of soup.

    Your points are well taken. We'll see what happens. Meanwhile, what kind of soup do you like?   ;D

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #156 on: December 23, 2011, 10:45 »
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And for all those who were scared the wind would change and the best match would stick, there's been another one this morning sometime.
This one's a doosie: only 2 of the 21 pics in my 'above the line' first screen view of a search for gorilla photos only are actually photos of gorillas. The rest are either csa's cartoons or a man person in an orange monkey costume.
All but one of the top 21 are Vetta, and the 'one' is an actual photo of gorillas.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 10:50 by ShadySue »

« Reply #157 on: December 23, 2011, 13:28 »
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I don't know Sue; my Best Match search for "backgrounds and paper" looks the same.  The first 10 pages are completely filled with crowns (no Vettas, but for that search term that's understandable).  As an independent, I used to have 3 images on the first page. Lord knows where they are now.  My sales have completely tanked since this latest shift.

  :-[

« Reply #158 on: December 23, 2011, 13:35 »
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I really can't blame Istock for pushing non-exclusive content down in the search. Like it or not, non-exclusive images are not something that make an agency stand out against their competition.

An agency manager once told me that exclusivity was a "weapon" agencies could use against their competition, and he's right, too bad iStock has done way to many other things to jack up its reputation... this probably won't stop the exodus.

« Reply #159 on: December 23, 2011, 13:58 »
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... An agency manager once told me that exclusivity was a "weapon" agencies could use against their competition, and he's right...

Agencies should remember that they're not in business solely to have a dust-up and pummel their competitors - they are there to make a profit by serving their customers well. No customers, no business.

Agencies are there to grow the business both by increasing their share of the market - assuming they're doing a good job with great products & services at competitive (and note, I do not mean cheapest; Apple would be an example of being competitive but not cheapest) prices - and by increasing the market as they find new customers.

If all they do is focus on pushing what they want to sell or trying to crush the competitors and forget that they need to serve the buyer they're on the road to an unhappy ending. Big and successful businesses have much more time before they get hurt by the effects of their anti-buyer approach than a smaller one would and that's both good and bad news. Good news because you have time to fix things if you're open to the notion you might have made a mistake. Bad news because you're insulated from negative effects for a while and can continue the self-deluding thoughts that you can get away with anything because you're so big and successful.

« Reply #160 on: December 23, 2011, 14:25 »
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... An agency manager once told me that exclusivity was a "weapon" agencies could use against their competition, and he's right...

Agencies should remember that they're not in business solely to have a dust-up and pummel their competitors - they are there to make a profit by serving their customers well. No customers, no business.

Agencies are there to grow the business both by increasing their share of the market - assuming they're doing a good job with great products & services at competitive (and note, I do not mean cheapest; Apple would be an example of being competitive but not cheapest) prices - and by increasing the market as they find new customers.

If all they do is focus on pushing what they want to sell or trying to crush the competitors and forget that they need to serve the buyer they're on the road to an unhappy ending. Big and successful businesses have much more time before they get hurt by the effects of their anti-buyer approach than a smaller one would and that's both good and bad news. Good news because you have time to fix things if you're open to the notion you might have made a mistake. Bad news because you're insulated from negative effects for a while and can continue the self-deluding thoughts that you can get away with anything because you're so big and successful.

Apple has exclusive stuff only... so they can sell it at higher prices.

« Reply #161 on: December 23, 2011, 14:46 »
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Apple has exclusive stuff only... so they can sell it at higher prices.

ZING!  You win the thread!

« Reply #162 on: December 23, 2011, 14:57 »
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Apple brand products are not sold exclusively by Apple, and there are competitors for iPads and iPhones - lots of companies have tried with Android tablets and smartphones. They've been very successful with the smartphones and almost a total failure with tablets. Apple also sells products that other people make - have you shopped at the Apple store for hardware? And the iTunes store is stuffed with goods that Apple didn't make.

When you say exclusive stuff only, what exactly were you referring to?

I'm not sure how your point pertains iStock's exclusivity where until very recently I couldn't buy anything from an iStock exclusive artist anywhere but iStockphoto.com. Now it's Getty family exclusivity, kind of - as Getty's contracts with Corbis result in work from iStock exclusives showing up there and other non-Getty distributors.

« Reply #163 on: December 23, 2011, 17:03 »
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... An agency manager once told me that exclusivity was a "weapon" agencies could use against their competition, and he's right...


I still think exclusivity can only be "weaponised" if it is materially different from other content.


Exclusive:

Non-exclusive:

I fail to see how having the first one on the front page of the search at a higher price-point than the second amounts to having a "weapon" against the other sites.

« Reply #164 on: December 23, 2011, 18:06 »
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Apple brand products are not sold exclusively by Apple, and there are competitors for iPads and iPhones - lots of companies have tried with Android tablets and smartphones. They've been very successful with the smartphones and almost a total failure with tablets. Apple also sells products that other people make - have you shopped at the Apple store for hardware? And the iTunes store is stuffed with goods that Apple didn't make.

When you say exclusive stuff only, what exactly were you referring to?

I'm not sure how your point pertains iStock's exclusivity where until very recently I couldn't buy anything from an iStock exclusive artist anywhere but iStockphoto.com. Now it's Getty family exclusivity, kind of - as Getty's contracts with Corbis result in work from iStock exclusives showing up there and other non-Getty distributors.

Apple is exclusive in what price they set for their products.  If you an Macbook its the same price not matter the supplier therefore they skip the cutthroat Dell vs Gateway pricing wars.  As an exclusive on istock the price of the image is controlled by one company even if offered over different market segments.  You have to admit this is the only way apple can charge $1600 for laptop when a Toshiba with comparable specs is $375.

« Reply #165 on: December 23, 2011, 19:03 »
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Apple is exclusive in what price they set for their products.  If you an Macbook its the same price not matter the supplier therefore they skip the cutthroat Dell vs Gateway pricing wars. 


This just isn't how it works, at least in the US. Prices are not uniform for Apple products.

I can buy from authorized Apple dealers (i.e. not some gray market item with no warranty) at a discount - here is an example from MacMall at about $75 less than Apple for the same iMac. That doesn't even count other discount possibilities via organizations like NAPP.  Another example is the Airport Extreme router that's $163 at B&H versus $179 at Apple (for the latest MD031LL).

« Reply #166 on: December 23, 2011, 21:58 »
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This is why we can't have funny jokes.

« Reply #167 on: December 24, 2011, 00:13 »
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I'm surprised more people are not ranting as independents are now buried - it seems like a pretty big deal for independents who use to have some popular photos at istock.  That is quite a shuffle - I would have guessed it would have been wise to keep a few independent files up front if they are relevant and popular for buyers and for independents to keep them engaged. Dang

« Reply #168 on: December 24, 2011, 00:26 »
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people still find files by doing search by downloads. New files will never be found. No point taking anything off in protest ,it is not seen anyway. I uploaded a couple of files that have next to no views. Quite dramatic turnaround. I will not bother putting anything else up, not worth the effort or commission rate. No loss to Istock but I wonder where they will be in 12 months. But dear files at Is or get cheaper (just as good files elsewhere? Do not ever believe exclusive files are better. Many would not even get accepted into SS. Quite a problem long term for exclusives.

« Reply #169 on: December 24, 2011, 01:44 »
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I will not bother putting anything else up, not worth the effort or commission rate.

I just keep uploading, anyway. Maybe the next foul-up will put zero dl independent files at the front, who knows? And there's always TS for sales, as well. Curiously, I've still been getting some iSTock sales in the last week, though maybe that is from bookmarked files.

lagereek

« Reply #170 on: December 24, 2011, 02:37 »
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There is still a fundamental law in all stock-photography, Internet based or not: dont spread your images around, just for the sake of quantity!  its proved over decades that it does have a negative effect and depending on each agencies structure and policy,  the images start to lose credibillity and selling power.
Example:  one buyer from Germany mailed me privately and said. Look I have just paid around, 60 dollars here for two of your images, same two are also with such and such an agency, for half the price!  he then wanted me to mail him other types of images for the lower price.

Anyway. My point!  to sit here and wait for some sort of IS- new best match change, that should bvenefit independants, is just stupidity since the damage is already done. Uploading or wait for pie-in-the-sky, from this agency is not even important anymore and especially not since our files are being mirrored in TS, for pittence.

After collaborating for days now with many friends and hi-cannister members who are all in the same boat. The best action to take is agreed: remove your best sellers, most commercial shots or whatever, before they end up at TS or brfore the agency panicks and in some sort of way start locking files or other strange things happens.

This last best match change is without doubt a 100%, clear indication that this agency is under stress and panick and is prepared to act and do anything to keep its head above water.

best and Merry X-mas, to all. :)

CarlssonInc

« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2011, 03:42 »
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@lagereek

2012 will tell, but I do think you are wrong :) I'm sure they are currently experiencing some negative developments, but the full-on panic/stress you personally seem to be under is probably in my humble opinion not being mirrored at iStock.

Tinkering with the best match search is nothing new, big changes to the best match is nothing new - it is all the same old. Every time it changes one group or another is screaming their head off. Usually it calms down and works out "ok" after a while.

So my dear Christian, chill, enjoy the rather unexpected (referring to at Christmas time) large RM sale, put another log on the fire and have a wee tipple to calm those nerves! We all need our strength, wit and good sense of humor to press onwards and upwards in the new year.

All the best/ Martin

lagereek

« Reply #172 on: December 24, 2011, 04:13 »
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@lagereek

2012 will tell, but I do think you are wrong :) I'm sure they are currently experiencing some negative developments, but the full-on panic/stress you personally seem to be under is probably in my humble opinion not being mirrored at iStock.

Tinkering with the best match search is nothing new, big changes to the best match is nothing new - it is all the same old. Every time it changes one group or another is screaming their head off. Usually it calms down and works out "ok" after a while.

So my dear Christian, chill, enjoy the rather unexpected (referring to at Christmas time) large RM sale, put another log on the fire and have a wee tipple to calm those nerves! We all need our strength, wit and good sense of humor to press onwards and upwards in the new year.

All the best/ Martin

Hi Martin!

nah!  no stress here mate. I mean frankly I dont really care about this too much. I sort of came in to this micro business 5 years back, on a banana peel, if you know what I mean. I am and have always been a freelance dayrate photographer and in the case of micro, I was looking for places to market my stuff that RM agencies didnt want, in those days.

Its a forum!  we scream, hallor, complain and make a lot of noise but in the end of the day its all a bit of fun and I bet in soul searching properly, very few here are seriously upset or angered.

However Martin, you have to understand,  since you are exclusivly bound to IS,  its an impossibillity for you to have an objective view/mind about all this, which I can fully understand.
In the RM, I have now been exclusive to Stone/Getty since 1993, hell of a long time and I know from experience how hard it is to take any sides against them, or to voice any criticism against something one is bound to.

all the best. Chris.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 04:27 by lagereek »

« Reply #173 on: December 24, 2011, 04:38 »
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Christian, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about spreading stuff around. The most scientific microstocker alive is Arcurs, he calculates everything to maximise profit, and he believes in supplying every single site he can.

« Reply #174 on: December 24, 2011, 05:10 »
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Christian, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about spreading stuff around. The most scientific microstocker alive is Arcurs, he calculates everything to maximise profit, and he believes in supplying every single site he can.
+1 
I don't agree at all. I think that many customers stick with one site and don't ever consider going elsewhere so if you haven't got your images there then they won't get bought.  A few people might shop around to find the cheapest site for an image but it would actually cost them more in time than what they can save by buying the image cheaper so only small time buyers, bloggers etc are likely to do that.


 

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