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Author Topic: Another Massive Best Match Shift  (Read 246905 times)

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CarlssonInc

« Reply #300 on: December 28, 2011, 03:46 »
0
good luck Martin. You have all your eggs in the one basket you had better like it. It is not that people love SS, it is that it is a fair model that works. As an exclusive you appear smug. Time will tell. Is has screwed as much out of independents as possible. Most will not bother to upload. The images will be at the bottom of the searches and the royalty rate is poor. Where will you be when it is all exclusive? SS are getting very picky about the images they accept. Old exclusive stuff at IS will die anywhere else (even if accepted) and will not be seen on IS if you go independent.  There is still plenty they can take off exclusives to boost profits. They will need to do this with a continued drop in market share and worse search results. One thing about limiting uploads to independents was that there was not a lot of near identical images put up from them. Many bulk uploads have sameness from some exclusives. The search result for customers is not enhanced by pushing exclusives, vetta etc to the front. Customers are at times dumb but they are not stupid.  What next can be done to keep sales up for exclusives?? This is a one way street. Future changes will not get you as excited as screwing independents to reward exclusives.

I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression.

Istock is the only microstock agency in my opinion where exclusivity available and is viable, naturally that makes it a different cup of tea to all the agencies where everyone is on equal footing. There is no charity going around, and Shutterstock, as well as other will squeeze as much as they can get away with when they feel they can, why wouldn't they?

I agree that iStock will continue to maximize their profit, they probably don't care at the expense of whom, but there is a limit at which it no longer is of interest even for exclusives.

By the sounds of things around here Shutterstock is soon big or powerful enough to capitalize on their position in the market. My thinking is then that they as a first step will start to offer exclusivity, 2nd step further down the line they will demand it, they are just slightly behind iStock.. iStock is at step 1 and I wouldn't be surprised if step 2 is just around the corner. As you said, time will tell.


CarlssonInc

« Reply #301 on: December 28, 2011, 03:49 »
0
Hi Martin!

I believe in exclusivity within RM, yes, and for protection, copys, etc. I do not believe in exclusivity in Micro, internet based agencies with billions of images floating around, pseudos, people with differant accounts and what nots. Its bound to be trouble and it is. Thats why only 15% of all contributors at IS, are exclusive, not much to hang in a x-mas tree, is it?
Exclusivity at IS, works for a chosen few and thats the people that were there when it all started with Bruce, etc, the so called backbone of the company, all the rest are just fill-outs and expendible.
In the micro world, exclusivity is just a pretty word, how do you police it?  I myself know severall who are exclusive, not just with IS but also others, get yourself a differant pseudo, differant account and upload differant pics, voila!  so much for that.

Person exclusivity, means nothing in micro and I really dont know how it came to be in the first place.

best.

Have to rush, but breach of contract of an exclusivity agreement is just not right and have been discussed here previously. I was then surprised by how many that seemed to think that was ok. In my opinion you sign a contract or give your word you stick to it, that's it.

« Reply #302 on: December 28, 2011, 04:03 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent, they'll pretty much lock-in all the exclusives and lock out everyone else. If exclusives discover they will have problems getting stuff into SS and DT, and know that 95% of their iS earnings will vanish if they drop the crown, then they aren't going to move, are they?

They've already made independents irrelevant, except for feeding TS, so who is going to be the next whipping-boy, out of Agency, Edstock and Exclusives? Would it make financial sense to push exclusives into the position previously held by independents while pushing Agency and Ed up front? What could exclusives do now, if that happened? And let's not forget that if prominent exclusives dump the crown, despite everything that means, it would give a useful boost to the PP, which seems to be the reinvention of microstock in a more pro-Getty form.

On both PP and iS, the contributors would then become a supporting act for other, more lucrative, Getty content.  That's what the logic of it looks like to me.

Carlsson - exlusivity is not an option for SS because they can't offer a higher payout for it on a subscription system.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #303 on: December 28, 2011, 04:46 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent,
Why do so many people think this is even slightly likely?
There have been nightmare BMs before, then another one comes along.
Even this one has different results in different searches, though it's true that exclusives dominate all the ones I've seen. But some have a preference within that to new images, some to V and/or A, some to well-selling images.

« Reply #304 on: December 28, 2011, 04:55 »
0
"I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression."

Your whole post earlier is totally smug. Try the IS forums for more support for independents being screwed to prop up exclusives as IS sales fall. Do not claim posters love SS because of the real issues with IS that have been vented about. Ebjoy the search while it compensates for lack of sales. What they need is to get more sales not give a bigger share to one group over another. The long term plan would seem to be scale down IS volume, have what is there as high price low volume and move all else to TS to compete with real micros.

Of course some may have images elsewhere in micro libraries often under other pseudonyms. Some claim it is the partners files etc. Others have RM. I am sure given vision many would have not been s loyal as they have to the IS exclusive agreement. Having a few images (taken in the same shoots as IS shots) in Alamy or somewhere else as RM is not a serious outing into market coverage. Like it or not the RF market is larger. You still have to think what is life like post IS like for you.

« Reply #305 on: December 28, 2011, 05:39 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent,
Why do so many people think this is even slightly likely?

Well, I've always said "if" and that it'll probably change soonish. But I think the fact that this one is so decisive marks it out as different. In the past there has always been at least some lip-service to balance in the best match - you know, three slots for independents per page, or whatever - to quell protests. This one simply dismisses independents as irrelevant and that does feel like a paradigm shift. I've usually had three or four shots on the front page of a "Qatar" search, I can't recall a time when I didn't have at least one, now my highest search slot is somewhere around page 12 of a 24 page search.

The thing that makes me really suspicious is that I can't see the point of them ordering a search in this way unless they want to achieve things - such as locking in exclusives - that won't be achieved if they keep changing it.

Even if the aim is simply to showcase files that other sites don't have, then if that is seen as an important enough objective to do this, it won't make sense to switch back to a previous version.

CarlssonInc

« Reply #306 on: December 28, 2011, 05:52 »
0
"I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression."

Your whole post earlier is totally smug. Try the IS forums for more support for independents being screwed to prop up exclusives as IS sales fall. Do not claim posters love SS because of the real issues with IS that have been vented about. Ebjoy the search while it compensates for lack of sales. What they need is to get more sales not give a bigger share to one group over another. The long term plan would seem to be scale down IS volume, have what is there as high price low volume and move all else to TS to compete with real micros.

Of course some may have images elsewhere in micro libraries often under other pseudonyms. Some claim it is the partners files etc. Others have RM. I am sure given vision many would have not been s loyal as they have to the IS exclusive agreement. Having a few images (taken in the same shoots as IS shots) in Alamy or somewhere else as RM is not a serious outing into market coverage. Like it or not the RF market is larger. You still have to think what is life like post IS like for you.

Don't tell me I'm smug when I'm not, especially when I'm in my response to you said I wasn't. I got no reason to be. Anyway your manners are severely lacking, and you come across as quite rude, however but I'm not biting. Regarding posters loving Shutterstock, you can clearly see that I'm been talking back and forth with lagereek, he "loves" Shutterstock.

lagereek

« Reply #307 on: December 28, 2011, 05:58 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent,
Why do so many people think this is even slightly likely?

Well, I've always said "if" and that it'll probably change soonish. But I think the fact that this one is so decisive marks it out as different. In the past there has always been at least some lip-service to balance in the best match - you know, three slots for independents per page, or whatever - to quell protests. This one simply dismisses independents as irrelevant and that does feel like a paradigm shift. I've usually had three or four shots on the front page of a "Qatar" search, I can't recall a time when I didn't have at least one, now my highest search slot is somewhere around page 12 of a 24 page search.

The thing that makes me really suspicious is that I can't see the point of them ordering a search in this way unless they want to achieve things - such as locking in exclusives - that won't be achieved if they keep changing it.

Even if the aim is simply to showcase files that other sites don't have, then if that is seen as an important enough objective to do this, it won't make sense to switch back to a previous version.

Even if they change the search, best match, and even if its just slightly in favour of independants, its all too late, damage is done, etc. you cant keep doing business like this, constantly having to rely on a schitzophrenic best match, one day good, next day bad, etc. Thats not the way to do business,  you dont even get an announcement before they do it,  just Bang!  and your port is gone. No thanks,  had enough of that for 6 years.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 06:00 by lagereek »

lagereek

« Reply #308 on: December 28, 2011, 06:06 »
0
"I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression."

Your whole post earlier is totally smug. Try the IS forums for more support for independents being screwed to prop up exclusives as IS sales fall. Do not claim posters love SS because of the real issues with IS that have been vented about. Ebjoy the search while it compensates for lack of sales. What they need is to get more sales not give a bigger share to one group over another. The long term plan would seem to be scale down IS volume, have what is there as high price low volume and move all else to TS to compete with real micros.

Of course some may have images elsewhere in micro libraries often under other pseudonyms. Some claim it is the partners files etc. Others have RM. I am sure given vision many would have not been s loyal as they have to the IS exclusive agreement. Having a few images (taken in the same shoots as IS shots) in Alamy or somewhere else as RM is not a serious outing into market coverage. Like it or not the RF market is larger. You still have to think what is life like post IS like for you.

Don't tell me I'm smug when I'm not, especially when I'm in my response to you said I wasn't. I got no reason to be. Anyway your manners are severely lacking, and you come across as quite rude, however but I'm not biting. Regarding posters loving Shutterstock, you can clearly see that I'm been talking back and forth with lagereek, he "loves" Shutterstock.

Hi Martin!

well its a touchy subject this, many here have had their entire ports destroyed, just overnight, so you know, feelings rush astray. Yes, I love SS, we all love SS, my reason for loving SS, is not the money, its the way they are conducting their business, nice and clean, no fuzz, friendly people, staff, etc and as I have said before, they conduct their business similar to Stones-Worldwide, and that Martin, thats just about the best you can get. :)

CarlssonInc

« Reply #309 on: December 28, 2011, 06:07 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent,
Why do so many people think this is even slightly likely?

Well, I've always said "if" and that it'll probably change soonish. But I think the fact that this one is so decisive marks it out as different. In the past there has always been at least some lip-service to balance in the best match - you know, three slots for independents per page, or whatever - to quell protests. This one simply dismisses independents as irrelevant and that does feel like a paradigm shift. I've usually had three or four shots on the front page of a "Qatar" search, I can't recall a time when I didn't have at least one, now my highest search slot is somewhere around page 12 of a 24 page search.

The thing that makes me really suspicious is that I can't see the point of them ordering a search in this way unless they want to achieve things - such as locking in exclusives - that won't be achieved if they keep changing it.

Even if the aim is simply to showcase files that other sites don't have, then if that is seen as an important enough objective to do this, it won't make sense to switch back to a previous version.

Even if they change the search, best match, and even if its just slightly in favour of independants, its all too late, damage is done, etc. you cant keep doing business like this, constantly having to rely on a schitzophrenic best match, one day good, next day bad, etc. Thats not the way to do business,  you dont even get an announcement before they do it,  just Bang!  and your port is gone. No thanks,  had enough of that for 6 years.

I agree with you here Christian, the tinkering with the best match search has to stop. They should just make a decision as to how they want it look, hopefully with the aim of satisfying customers with proper relevance. Only change should then be dynamic i.e. rising of good sellers, sinking of under performers, geographic weighing etc. They have managed before to have a best match that looked alright, that was good for exclusives and ok for independents, don't see why they just can't go back to that. Short cuts, short term gains ain't going to get them anywhere in the long run unfortunately. They really need to win the community back, as well as the "feel good" factor. You think it is too late, I hope not.

CarlssonInc

« Reply #310 on: December 28, 2011, 06:13 »
0
"I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression."

Your whole post earlier is totally smug. Try the IS forums for more support for independents being screwed to prop up exclusives as IS sales fall. Do not claim posters love SS because of the real issues with IS that have been vented about. Ebjoy the search while it compensates for lack of sales. What they need is to get more sales not give a bigger share to one group over another. The long term plan would seem to be scale down IS volume, have what is there as high price low volume and move all else to TS to compete with real micros.

Of course some may have images elsewhere in micro libraries often under other pseudonyms. Some claim it is the partners files etc. Others have RM. I am sure given vision many would have not been s loyal as they have to the IS exclusive agreement. Having a few images (taken in the same shoots as IS shots) in Alamy or somewhere else as RM is not a serious outing into market coverage. Like it or not the RF market is larger. You still have to think what is life like post IS like for you.

Don't tell me I'm smug when I'm not, especially when I'm in my response to you said I wasn't. I got no reason to be. Anyway your manners are severely lacking, and you come across as quite rude, however but I'm not biting. Regarding posters loving Shutterstock, you can clearly see that I'm been talking back and forth with lagereek, he "loves" Shutterstock.

Hi Martin!

well its a touchy subject this, many here have had their entire ports destroyed, just overnight, so you know, feelings rush astray. Yes, I love SS, we all love SS, my reason for loving SS, is not the money, its the way they are conducting their business, nice and clean, no fuzz, friendly people, staff, etc and as I have said before, they conduct their business similar to Stones-Worldwide, and that Martin, thats just about the best you can get. :)

Sad thing is Christian that I think it wasn't long ago since you felt that way about iStock. Didn't you even contemplate exclusivity not that long ago (year or two ago)? iStock really has some serious making up to do to win a lot of people back, to turnaround the negative vibe that is currently surrounding it. I don't take it for granted that they will, but I still believe they will and I seriously hope so.

lagereek

« Reply #311 on: December 28, 2011, 06:31 »
0
"I don't have all my eggs in one basket, only in microstock. * I'm not smug at all, I take quite an offense that you say so - please point to where you got that impression."

Your whole post earlier is totally smug. Try the IS forums for more support for independents being screwed to prop up exclusives as IS sales fall. Do not claim posters love SS because of the real issues with IS that have been vented about. Ebjoy the search while it compensates for lack of sales. What they need is to get more sales not give a bigger share to one group over another. The long term plan would seem to be scale down IS volume, have what is there as high price low volume and move all else to TS to compete with real micros.

Of course some may have images elsewhere in micro libraries often under other pseudonyms. Some claim it is the partners files etc. Others have RM. I am sure given vision many would have not been s loyal as they have to the IS exclusive agreement. Having a few images (taken in the same shoots as IS shots) in Alamy or somewhere else as RM is not a serious outing into market coverage. Like it or not the RF market is larger. You still have to think what is life like post IS like for you.

Don't tell me I'm smug when I'm not, especially when I'm in my response to you said I wasn't. I got no reason to be. Anyway your manners are severely lacking, and you come across as quite rude, however but I'm not biting. Regarding posters loving Shutterstock, you can clearly see that I'm been talking back and forth with lagereek, he "loves" Shutterstock.

Hi Martin!

well its a touchy subject this, many here have had their entire ports destroyed, just overnight, so you know, feelings rush astray. Yes, I love SS, we all love SS, my reason for loving SS, is not the money, its the way they are conducting their business, nice and clean, no fuzz, friendly people, staff, etc and as I have said before, they conduct their business similar to Stones-Worldwide, and that Martin, thats just about the best you can get. :)

Sad thing is Christian that I think it wasn't long ago since you felt that way about iStock. Didn't you even contemplate exclusivity not that long ago (year or two ago)? iStock really has some serious making up to do to win a lot of people back, to turnaround the negative vibe that is currently surrounding it. I don't take it for granted that they will, but I still believe they will and I seriously hope so.

Yep, correct!  not only me, Lise, Baldrick, many here were contemplating exclusivity a few years back. The root of all evils, is their constant best match changes, it sort of creates an instabillity which is hard to live with, let alone doing business with. :)

« Reply #312 on: December 28, 2011, 08:13 »
0
I wasn't contemplating exclusivity - I'd signed a medium-term contract with another  agent, so it wasn't an option for me - but I know Gostwyck was about to jump. That was when they introduced the different pricing for exclusives. But just before a lot of people completed their six-month moratorium on uploading to DT, the powers that be at iStock decided to kick the train off the rails. I can't recall which crisis it was, but it came just in time to stop a lot of independents reaching for the crown.

That was one of the first shoot-self-in-foot moments at iS.

« Reply #313 on: December 28, 2011, 08:51 »
0
This change has just killed my business there!  IS used to be so good for me.

« Reply #314 on: December 28, 2011, 10:27 »
0
This change has just killed my business there!  IS used to be so good for me.

The best match change has killed all the independents business for as long as its like this.  The best selling microstock producer best selling photos are not even on the first 600 images of the most popular key words.  I am sure this is a shock to independents even considering the weak time of year for sales. 

« Reply #315 on: December 28, 2011, 10:45 »
0
This change has just killed my business there!  IS used to be so good for me.

You'd better get used to it. As Baldrick has suggested this appears to be far too deliberate to be an 'accident' with unintended consequences. I doubt if it will change significantly any time soon unless it impacts overall sales. Even if it invokes buyers' protests Istock have proved themselves to be pig-headed enough to ignore them for several months before reluctantly taking any remedial action.

Even if the best match is modified I view this change as an act of desperation that does nothing to serve the buyers' interests and is a painfully obvious attempt to cling onto exiting exclusives. Yet another example of Istock introducing a short-term, self-interest policy that is likely to cause longer-term damage to the business. At best it will only delay the inevitable by a few months anyway.

Has anyone else noticed that some search words/phrases seem to have virtually disappeared? Try a search on 'roast lamb' for example. I'm getting zero results even when using different PCs and ISPs. Same with 'lamb (mutton)'. The phrase 'lamb shank' only generates 5 results although there are well over 100 within the library. I'd assume that there must be other similar issues.

reckless

« Reply #316 on: December 28, 2011, 10:51 »
0
Imagine the effect this has on Yuri, to see his expense and hard work wasted and his work not showing in the early pages of a search. I typed in 'businessman handshake' and found every exclusive copycat in the ranks but no Yuri in the front pages.

« Reply #317 on: December 28, 2011, 10:54 »
0
This change has just killed my business there!  IS used to be so good for me.

Sorry to hear that Jill. I gave up on them a long time ago...for me, the writing on the wall was very clear. Maybe they'll change the best match sort back, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. For some reason I was thinking you were exclusive, but glad to see that you have at least spread your work out so all eggs are not in one basket.

« Reply #318 on: December 28, 2011, 10:56 »
0
The best match change has killed all the independents business for as long as its like this.  The best selling microstock producer best selling photos are not even on the first 600 images of the most popular key words.  I am sure this is a shock to independents even considering the weak time of year for sales. 

Fear not, your own 'shock' will be arriving soon enough. Start planning your strategy in the event that Istock's sales continue to slide because, almost certainly, they will. The only question is how quickly and at what point the situation may stabilise (or not). The internet age allows businesses to grow with astonishing speed ... and also to implode just as quickly.

« Reply #319 on: December 28, 2011, 11:06 »
0
This change has just killed my business there!  IS used to be so good for me.

You'd better get used to it. As Baldrick has suggested this appears to be far too deliberate to be an 'accident' with unintended consequences. I doubt if it will change significantly any time soon unless it impacts overall sales. Even if it invokes buyers' protests Istock have proved themselves to be pig-headed enough to ignore them for several months before reluctantly taking any remedial action.

Even if the best match is modified I view this change as an act of desperation that does nothing to serve the buyers' interests and is a painfully obvious attempt to cling onto exiting exclusives. Yet another example of Istock introducing a short-term, self-interest policy that is likely to cause longer-term damage to the business. At best it will only delay the inevitable by a few months anyway.

Has anyone else noticed that some search words/phrases seem to have virtually disappeared? Try a search on 'roast lamb' for example. I'm getting zero results even when using different PCs and ISPs. Same with 'lamb (mutton)'. The phrase 'lamb shank' only generates 5 results although there are well over 100 within the library. I'd assume that there must be other similar issues.

This best match is not better not worse than any of the precedents. In some aspects is better (more original content on front of costumers), in some worse (less cheap files in front). I don't think many customers will even notice it.  And yes, it's better for some contributors and worse for other..., but that's another matter, completely different.

« Reply #320 on: December 28, 2011, 11:18 »
0
This best match is not better not worse than any of the precedents. In some aspects is better (more original content on front of costumers), in some worse (less cheap files in front). I don't think many customers will even notice it.  And yes, it's better for some contributors and worse for other..., but that's another matter, completely different.

Personally I think the best match is far worse than before. For a start many searches are dominated by a few newly-uploaded series by the same contributor/s thus offering less immediate choice. There's a reason why best-selling images are 'best-sellers' __ they're the ones the buyers liked the most (when they could actually find them). Suppressing such images behind a motley group of 'fresh' but largely boring and similar content is unlikely to thrill the buyers much.

Anyway, we'll soon see what happens won't we? The 'How was your January' thread on the IS forum should be illuminating.

lisafx

« Reply #321 on: December 28, 2011, 11:29 »
0
I wasn't contemplating exclusivity - I'd signed a medium-term contract with another  agent, so it wasn't an option for me - but I know Gostwyck was about to jump. That was when they introduced the different pricing for exclusives. But just before a lot of people completed their six-month moratorium on uploading to DT, the powers that be at iStock decided to kick the train off the rails. I can't recall which crisis it was, but it came just in time to stop a lot of independents reaching for the crown.

That was one of the first shoot-self-in-foot moments at iS.

Yes, it was Gostwyck, me, and Cathy Clapper from this board, among others, who were waiting out the 6 months to become exclusive, and had been doing so under assurances that we would "be grandfathered into our current canister levels", back when that meant a certain royalty %.  The "kick off the rails" was the Sept. 2010 introduction of RC credits, making canister levels worthless.  We were lucky in that it happened before we went exclusive.  Some, like Dgilder and others weren't as lucky and got sucked into exclusivity on false pretenses.  I don't see how anyone could ever trust Istock after they did that. 

traveler1116

« Reply #322 on: December 28, 2011, 11:33 »
0
Imagine the effect this has on Yuri, to see his expense and hard work wasted and his work not showing in the early pages of a search. I typed in 'businessman handshake' and found every exclusive copycat in the ranks but no Yuri in the front pages.
Yuri didn't invent the business handshake, in fact the oldest "business handshake" on istock is an exclusive file along with most of the other earliest ones.  Yuri's first business handshake was from 2006, 3 years after the first one.  I'm not sure how you can say everyone copied Yuri?

wut

« Reply #323 on: December 28, 2011, 11:38 »
0
If iStock make this search permanent,
Why do so many people think this is even slightly likely?

Well, I've always said "if" and that it'll probably change soonish. But I think the fact that this one is so decisive marks it out as different. In the past there has always been at least some lip-service to balance in the best match - you know, three slots for independents per page, or whatever - to quell protests. This one simply dismisses independents as irrelevant and that does feel like a paradigm shift. I've usually had three or four shots on the front page of a "Qatar" search, I can't recall a time when I didn't have at least one, now my highest search slot is somewhere around page 12 of a 24 page search.

The thing that makes me really suspicious is that I can't see the point of them ordering a search in this way unless they want to achieve things - such as locking in exclusives - that won't be achieved if they keep changing it.

Even if the aim is simply to showcase files that other sites don't have, then if that is seen as an important enough objective to do this, it won't make sense to switch back to a previous version.

They could just add another filter, exclusive only if that was the point. And highlight it so buyers can really see it. Problem solved, for those that are looking for exclusive content. But that would go against everything they're really trying to achieve

« Reply #324 on: December 28, 2011, 11:47 »
0
Yep, the RC invention was when they lost me, too.  It felt specifically designed to screw contributors like me, actually.


 

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