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Author Topic: Big Change at IS  (Read 44564 times)

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« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2011, 03:06 »
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she will quickly understand the value of a strong crowd sourcing community. People are ready to work for free, whats not to like?


Getty's crowd sourcing resource is Flickr, please don't get naive!

I don't see a huge flickr getty community. just getty picking images from a site with pictures.

The flickr photographers are not doing stock full time. And you are right, on getty they just have a forum, they are not using it as a tool to create a community of well networked artists totally dedicated to working with each other to create great content. Maybe they will in time. After all Bruce always pointed out how much cheaper istockers were producing high quality images by working together.

We don't need creative briefs. We reserach markets and niches before we shoot, we network with each other to keep production costs down.

We just need more simple things - statistic tools to help us optimize our portfolio etc...and obviously - make all the money count towards RC so that making money is the top focus.

If I consider doing video alongside photography, nothing should hold me back. If I plan a shoot and only do photos, because RC does not encourage me to do more than one media, then those videos will simply not be taken. But the customer would greatly benefit from having both photo and video from a set scene.

I am not looking for warm fuzzies, just good economics.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 03:19 by cobalt »


« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2011, 03:55 »
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she will quickly understand the value of a strong crowd sourcing community. People are ready to work for free, whats not to like?
Getty's crowd sourcing resource is Flickr, please don't get naive!

I don't see a huge flickr getty community. just getty picking images from a site with pictures.
...

And they're picking a lot.  The flickr collection on Getty now holds more than 120,000 files.  That's about twice as many files as the Vetta collection on Getty.

grp_photo

« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2011, 04:09 »
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she will quickly understand the value of a strong crowd sourcing community. People are ready to work for free, whats not to like?
Getty's crowd sourcing resource is Flickr, please don't get naive!

I don't see a huge flickr getty community. just getty picking images from a site with pictures.
...

And they're picking a lot.  The flickr collection on Getty now holds more than 120,000 files.  That's about twice as many files as the Vetta collection on Getty.
It's not a lot considering the billions and billions files on Flickr, but compared to Vetta yes.

« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2011, 04:14 »
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What I am trying to say - flickr is nt istock. the photographers there dont get together to shoot images with stock in mind. But microstockers want to produce commercial images.
Its no use trying to foster a "stock culture on flickr".

I love the Flickr collection. They just created a "best of flickr".

http://www.gettyimages.com/search/search.aspx/1/creative?brands=fks&isource=FlickrSelectCollectionViewer#1

Shank_ali

    This user is banned.
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2011, 04:26 »
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The title of this thread is 'Big Change'.Nothing big will stop the profits pouring into the Istock coffers.I have already made Istockphoto around $60,000 in my short  time as a contributor.That will rise  to around $100,000 in the next few years.
The company Mr Livingston developed continues to make easy money from showcasing peoples content.

« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2011, 04:42 »
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The title of this thread is 'Big Change'.Nothing big will stop the profits pouring into the Istock coffers.I have already made Istockphoto around $60,000 in my short  time as a contributor.That will rise  to around $100,000 in the next few years.
The company Mr Livingston developed continues to make easy money from showcasing peoples content.
Mr Livingstone, I presume    ;D

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2011, 07:54 »
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Every exclusive that depends on their microstock income was checkmated last September whether they view it that way or not.

True, but this is a tournament with a series of games. You can win one game and lose a lot of others.

lisafx

« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2011, 08:04 »
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pretty calculating on her part not to mention contributors in her intro speech. It seems like an ominous sign for things to come for the contributors and she is smart not to make friends with contributors with warm and fuzzys like you guys say if her future actions clearly hurt contributors further. shes not going to get quoted saying this and such...

Excellent post.  Reminds me of how jurors who voted to convict won't look the prisoner in the eye. 

lisafx

« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2011, 08:28 »
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Well, here's a very telling comment, posted in response to jtyler, who was expressing widely held concerns.  I think it nicely sums up how we should feel about this change, and how Getty feels about us:

Posted By jtyler: I've been an IS yea-sayer for 6 of my almost 8 years here.  I no longer am.  Convice me why I should be excited by this. 

Posted by lobo: So don't be excited. No one is forcing you to hold a parade.

I am not pointing this out as an example of a snarky response.  I think it is more than that.  It is an acknowledgment that there is no good news for contributors coming, so no reason to be excited (or optimistic).  They aren't even paying lip-service to pacifying us now. 

The last vestiges of the velvet glove is being replaced with an iron fist :(

« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2011, 08:41 »
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I am not looking for warm fuzzies, just good economics.

You're probably not going to get either.

« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2011, 09:28 »
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The new appointment has presumably not been employed to be the best friend of 7 million members. I am relieved that we did not get something in the style of an inaugural address. We just want her to quietly get on with the job. Beyond that it would be dotty to try to divine potentially negative nuances from a brief understated introductory 'hello'. She said something about working towards better serving the clients. Good. That's what matters.

I wonder what people expect today - other than to hope that the business as a whole will be run to be successful including iStockphoto as a part of that. It's their business. iStockphoto is mature. It is a still a fantastically democratic entry point - nothing like that existed all those many years ago when it was first developed. But that was a very different time and a very different economy. We might as well be remembering the 60s. Times are very different now.

Look today through the work which is coming online via iStockphoto and flickr. Much of it is amazingly high end top notch and creative stuff. From people who never post anything in any of the forums. Or look at 500px, tumblr or your favorite Flipboard feeds etc. Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

lisafx

« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2011, 09:44 »
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Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

"Sense of entitlement"??  That's rich.   You mean a sense of entitlement to be reasonably compensated for our hard work, creativity, and considerable financial investment? 

Some of us, who are meeting the challenge and inspiration to create better work, are moaning because that better work is not bringing sufficient money to enable us to keep our businesses going and continuing to produce it. 

This isn't just Istock's business.  Istock piggybacks on the backs of its contributors, many of whom are running small businesses of their own, and have very good reasons to be concerned about our bottom lines. 

How dismissive and condescending of you to characterize people's business concerns and priorities as "moaning all the time".  It is this sort of sycophantic, apologist attitude that has provided cover for Istock's greedy and deplorable actions the last couple of years. 

« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2011, 09:49 »
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I wanted to give your post a heart, Lisa, but MSG is telling me that I give you too much love. LOL

Great post!

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2011, 09:52 »
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The new appointment has presumably not been employed to be the best friend of 7 million members. I am relieved that we did not get something in the style of an inaugural address. We just want her to quietly get on with the job. Beyond that it would be dotty to try to divine potentially negative nuances from a brief understated introductory 'hello'. She said something about working towards better serving the clients. Good. That's what matters.

I wonder what people expect today - other than to hope that the business as a whole will be run to be successful including iStockphoto as a part of that. It's their business. iStockphoto is mature. It is a still a fantastically democratic entry point - nothing like that existed all those many years ago when it was first developed. But that was a very different time and a very different economy. We might as well be remembering the 60s. Times are very different now.

Look today through the work which is coming online via iStockphoto and flickr. Much of it is amazingly high end top notch and creative stuff. From people who never post anything in any of the forums. Or look at 500px, tumblr or your favorite Flipboard feeds etc. Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

I usually agree with your posts....but I'm afraid I disagree about the new and old generation of amazing photogs & designers WITHOUT a sense of entitlement. I think the sense of entitlement is at an all time high. new contributors (in general) seem to think this is easy money. thankfully most of them get bored after the novelty wears off and they see how much work it truly is.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2011, 09:54 »
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Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

"Sense of entitlement"??  That's rich.   You mean a sense of entitlement to be reasonably compensated for our hard work, creativity, and considerable financial investment? 

Some of us, who are meeting the challenge and inspiration to create better work, are moaning because that better work is not bringing sufficient money to enable us to keep our businesses going and continuing to produce it. 

This isn't just Istock's business.  Istock piggybacks on the backs of its contributors, many of whom are running small businesses of their own, and have very good reasons to be concerned about our bottom lines. 

How dismissive and condescending of you to characterize people's business concerns and priorities as "moaning all the time".  It is this sort of sycophantic, apologist attitude that has provided cover for Istock's greedy and deplorable actions the last couple of years. 

FWIW Lisa, I don't think bunhill meant that comment the way you've interpreted it. I understood the comment in regards to clueless noobs who think it's cool to sell a few shots from flickr etc.

« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2011, 09:57 »
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... Look today through the work which is coming online via iStockphoto and flickr. Much of it is amazingly high end top notch and creative stuff. ...

This sounds somewhat contradicting to:

Quote
... The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

So you're saying that we should provide even better work than "Much of it is amazingly high end top notch and creative stuff" while not moaning about getting less and less for our work?

This does not make any sense whatsoever.

« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2011, 10:06 »
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So maybe I might clarify what I mean by "sense of entitlement" (since I am certainly not being dismissive, condescending or sycophantic. I am only being realistic.) Look at some of the amazingly creative and technically excellent portfolios of work which are being produced by people who never post anything. Many of those portfolios post date the era when iStockphoto and the others were first evolving. So those people are not wedded to pre existing expectations. They take things for how they are now.

The moans (okay .. concerns) here are exactly analogous to the concerns (moans) which were expressed by a previous generation of stock photographers when microstock first came along. It is the same thing which always happens which is that the people established at one point in a cycle often look back to that point in the cycle as a better time. Or else adapt.

« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2011, 10:06 »
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...Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?


So is the worker moaning and demonstrating a sense of "pre entitlement" when they want to get paid for their 40 hours? Seems to me that getting irate (moaning?) when what you were led to expect is removed is a pretty rational response and not at all derived from a sense of "pre entitlement"

There is in UK law a notion of equitable estoppel. It prevents one party from obtaining legal relief against the other when the party has mislead - lied to - the other. I realize this doesn't directly apply here in that iStock hasn't sued contributors for  anything. But the notion that iStock has lied to its contributors (remember that grandfathering scheme for those who became exclusive) and then once they'd done that abandoned the whole system of royalties seems pretty close. I wasn't caught by the grandfathering scheme, but I did become exclusive to get the 40% royalty. I got it and then they moved the effing goal posts.

I think the best thing any of us "moaners" can do is to tell the iStock story loudly to anyone who will listen so that others are not conned into expecting that anything iStock says will actually come to pass. It may or may not, but you cannot rely on them to keep to what they say.

« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2011, 10:12 »
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The new appointment has presumably not been employed to be the best friend of 7 million members. I am relieved that we did not get something in the style of an inaugural address. We just want her to quietly get on with the job. Beyond that it would be dotty to try to divine potentially negative nuances from a brief understated introductory 'hello'. She said something about working towards better serving the clients. Good. That's what matters.

I wonder what people expect today - other than to hope that the business as a whole will be run to be successful including iStockphoto as a part of that. It's their business. iStockphoto is mature. It is a still a fantastically democratic entry point - nothing like that existed all those many years ago when it was first developed. But that was a very different time and a very different economy. We might as well be remembering the 60s. Times are very different now.

Look today through the work which is coming online via iStockphoto and flickr. Much of it is amazingly high end top notch and creative stuff. From people who never post anything in any of the forums. Or look at 500px, tumblr or your favorite Flipboard feeds etc. Whilst we are posting our opinions on the forums there is a whole new (and old) generation of amazing photographers and designers who come without this sense of pre entitlement. The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?

What uttter drivel. You need to extract your head from Istock's arse and take a reality pill or three. What about Istock's sense of 'pre-entitlement' to grab up to 85% of the purchase price? The truth is that Istock's sense of 'pre-entitlement', otherwise known as absolute greed, has screwed their business and now they are going down __ fast. They can change the name at the top as many times as they like but unless they change their attitude they will continue to fail.

« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2011, 10:18 »
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Quote
Well, 7 year comparison numbers look impressive. For iStock. Great corporate report. Most of us experienced growth as well, but we are sliding back in a hurry. Less sales by volume and less dollars than year ago, and even two years ago. Inviting new contributors 'en masse' is not working for old timers. Favoring Agency/Vetta collections is killing most of 'ordinary' contributors. This week sales are worse I've seen in years.

« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2011, 10:26 »
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the contributors are paying the agency to bring in the customers. Very obviously istock has failed grow in the last months. Many top contributors are producing fantsatic content in high volume and see no growth. or even decline in sales.

The independents are reporting excellent growth at the competition and looking at webtraffic istock seems to have fallen to a the level of dreamstime. But 2 years ago it was the undisputable no 1 microstock site.

obviously everyone has to make their own business decisions, but in the future who will want to go exclusive with istock if it is notthe no 1?

so i hope that rebecca brings the customers back. after all that is the service that the contributors are paying for.

i also hope she encourages mixed media contributors to stay exclusive, because in my environment I already see what used to be die hard istock photogrPhers signing up with pond5 for video. the rc system discourages them from keeping all content with istock getty.  a photographer will never have enough time to produce enough video to rise up in the system.

I think it is a big mistake to encourage people to leave and spread their content to other sites. Just like it was a mistake to encourage the buyers to leave by refusing to install a price filter for many months.

« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2011, 10:29 »
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You need to extract your head from Istock's arse

Now that's pretty offensive actually. It is perfectly reasonable to try to express a contradictory opinion. Or are we all supposed to march in your line here ?

FWIW I am not clear what even makes you believe that iStockphoto is not doing well as a business. Especially given that it is not a business in isolation but part of Getty as a whole. It's margins that matter, no ?

« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2011, 10:33 »
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The challenge and inspiration should surely be to try to make better work rather than moaning all the time ?
I'm still producing the work, but iStock just isn't getting any of it. I'm willing to come back to the table if they want to, but they'll have to ask nicely.  Until then, the only thing I'll be doing at IS is commenting. ;D

« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2011, 10:47 »
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FWIW I am not clear what even makes you believe that iStockphoto is not doing well as a business.

My own statistics, the reports of many others, the revised (downwards) RC targets ... and the fact that they just sacked the man at the helm. I guess he wasn't able to match Getty's sense of 'pre-entitlement' as you would put it.

« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2011, 11:32 »
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My own statistics, the reports of many others

I have not seen your research data (is it published somewhere ?) but I would be surprised if many exclusives are not actually telling you that their earnings including Getty Vetta sales etc are holding up despite the collapsing global economy - and despite the 45,000 files being added to iStockphoto every week.

How many of the 110,000 contributors have you polled roughly ?


 

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