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Author Topic: best match 2.0 LIVE!!  (Read 19002 times)

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« on: April 15, 2009, 16:05 »
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New best match is live. Seems to be the best search by far now within microstock. If only the slider will function right. Am looking forward how sales will turn out.
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=87124


« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 16:25 »
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All I can say is:  ;D  ;D ;D

vonkara

« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 16:27 »
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OMG I just made a couple of searches and the efficiency of results is surprising. More to come as I look at it

Edit: I see lots of isolation in the first pages
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 16:33 by Vonkara »

« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 16:35 »
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wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo yyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy

« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 16:46 »
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What or who will prioritize the keywords?  I understand that most of the time, between 2 and 5 KW are enough to describe a photo (in my opinion!) but when there are more than 10, how the system will chose the main KWs?

Use of the same words in the title?
In the description?
The first 2 or 3 KW used by the submitter?
Manually done by the reviewer?

I wonder...

Claude

« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 16:49 »
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You don't need to wonder.  It's some mix of sales and views based on the term used to find them.  Kelly mentioned that somewhere.

« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 17:26 »
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I a not too impressed.  "Granola bowl" didn't return any of my images in the first 15 of 28 pages (I gave up then).  My images have both word in title, description and keywords.  Many of the images are corn flakes and msli, not granola.  My images appear in the first pages in DT and FT.


« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 17:27 »
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To be honest, I don't understand why everybody is happy that the new best match is out? Some images will move up in search, but that inevitably means some will move down, too. It all equalizes in the end or am I missing something?

« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2009, 17:30 »
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What's a difference between granola and muesli?

alias

« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 17:30 »
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To be honest, I don't understand why everybody is happy that the new best match is out? Some images will move up in search, but that inevitably means some will move down, too. It all equalizes in the end or am I missing something?

It's about making a search which provides a better experience for the customers and therefore making the site even better. A rising tide and all that.

« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2009, 17:33 »
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I'm gonna make some popcorn.
This could get interesting  ;)

« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2009, 17:34 »
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Few days ago I uploaded several images of the same parachute with the same title, description and keywords. Today I sold one of them. What is interesting..... all those images are on the 7th page if you type "parachute" in the search box.... all except one image. The image that's missing is exactly the same image that is sold today, and it's on the 16th page... My old, but pretty popular image of a parachute with almost the same keywords is on the third page....
What happened makes me think that when some image is sold, it goes down in the search for other files to be more visible. Probably, after some time, it goes up again.... I hope

« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2009, 17:34 »
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I think we should all be happy if results were more relevant in a tweaked search engine, so we know it pays to keyword (and to give a title and describe) correctly, that it doesn't matter if you are exclusive or not, if the image has been downloaded a lot or never, but relevance is the true best match.

« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 17:35 »
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I have an opposite example of Whitechild. An old image of mine that was downloaded 4 times, 3 times in the last month is down in search while my new images on the same topic , with no downloads are down in search. It's hard to figure out what the best match means.

« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 17:38 »
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I think we should all be happy if results were more relevant in a tweaked search engine, so we know it pays to keyword (and to give a title and describe) correctly, that it doesn't matter if you are exclusive or not, if the image has been downloaded a lot or never, but relevance is the true best match.

But admins on IS say that title and description don't play important role in new best match....

« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 17:38 »
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I think we should all be happy if results were more relevant in a tweaked search engine, so we know it pays to keyword (and to give a title and describe) correctly, that it doesn't matter if you are exclusive or not, if the image has been downloaded a lot or never, but relevance is the true best match.

I agree. There should be no "games" with number of downloads/popularity and all that.

« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 17:39 »
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What's a difference between granola and muesli?

granola: rolled oats, nuts and honey, roasted
msli: oats, fruit and nuts, not roasted

I often have both together, but they are separate products.

« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 17:40 »
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I think we should all be happy if results were more relevant in a tweaked search engine, so we know it pays to keyword (and to give a title and describe) correctly, that it doesn't matter if you are exclusive or not, if the image has been downloaded a lot or never, but relevance is the true best match.

But admins on IS say that title and description don't play important role in new best match....

That's why I still think DT has the best search engine and the closest to "best match" if best match means relevance.

« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 17:52 »
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To be honest, I don't understand why everybody is happy that the new best match is out? Some images will move up in search, but that inevitably means some will move down, too. It all equalizes in the end or am I missing something?

Im with you on this one.   A "Good best match" is when that person finds HIS images in the top.  Meaning some other poor *insult removed* has a bad best match.   Its in the eye of the beholder...

« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2009, 18:01 »
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Im with you on this one.   A "Good best match" is when that person finds HIS images in the top.  Meaning some other poor *insult removed* has a bad best match.   Its in the eye of the beholder...

Ha ha, it's called Kali philosophy: "When Kali steal cow good, when somebody  steal Kali's cow bad" :-)

« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 18:14 »
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best match brings some images up, and pulls some images down. It's interesting how many contributors are euphoric because best match 2.0 is alive, but in the same time they don't know how it works, and what they should do to bring their images up :)

The only one who should be happy is the one who knows how best match works. Those who don't understand it don't have real reason to be euphoric.

IS did it to make it better for buyers, and that's good. They WILL benefit from this change. But contributors...I think it will be the same for them.... some of them will be happy, some of them won't be so happy. There must be a balance.

That's my opinion :)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 18:18 by Whitechild »

vonkara

« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 18:23 »
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A good best match is a best match who put the good images first (for buyers I mean). It actually consider from what keyword it have been viewed and downloaded, then make it more relevent with this keyword. Like Alamy does already
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 18:25 by Vonkara »

« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 18:28 »
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...And, there is a question again, how they find relevant keyword? My image of crescent moon was bought on DT with keyword "fantasy" and my image of a goose is bought with keyword "gosling" (with one o)
 and my image of turkish shoes was bought with word "islam"
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 18:30 by Whitechild »

« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 18:28 »
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This is by far the best system I have seen so far. As far as I know it sorts according to what buyers bought or viewed in the past, after typing in his keyword. So this is the most relevant search you can get for the buyer. Even if my sales will go down, I cannot complain, because this is so much more beneficial for the buyer. So while I do not know how it will turn out for me iStock turned in the right direction, namely what the buyer wants.
Now the other agencies really have to make some steps forward to compete with their searches.

« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 18:33 »
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Great point, Whitechild, my Golden Gate image on DT was bought with keywords "blue buildings california"  :) I would never expect for someone to buy my photo with this combination of keywords.

« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 18:45 »
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OK, I will write here few examples:


My image of crescent moon was bought with keyword "fantasy"


My image of grapes in a basket was bought with word "mediterrannean wine"


My image of seals was bought with word "galapagos"


The image of adult male goose was bought with word "gosling"


The image of boy spreading his hands in the forest was bought with word "lungs"


The image of turkish shoes was bought with word "islam"


The image of shooting star was bought with word "stella" (italian word for star)


The image of a butterfly standing on a grass was bought with words "butterfly flight"


etc...


So, obviously buyers use strange terms to find certain images, and after that they buy them. In the same time, I am sure IS would reject all those images if I use these words as keywords. Am I right?

And what are then the most relevant keywords if buyers use these words to buy these images??
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 18:48 by Whitechild »

RT


« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 18:45 »
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This is by far the best system I have seen so far. As far as I know it sorts according to what buyers bought or viewed in the past, after typing in his keyword.

If this is true there's not much point in anybody else moaning or celebrating what they see when they do a best match search on their own portfolio.

But I bet they do!


« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 19:04 »
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OK, I will write here few examples:


My image of crescent moon was bought with keyword "fantasy"


My image of grapes in a basket was bought with word "mediterrannean wine"


My image of seals was bought with word "galapagos"


The image of adult male goose was bought with word "gosling"


The image of boy spreading his hands in the forest was bought with word "lungs"


The image of turkish shoes was bought with word "islam"


The image of shooting star was bought with word "stella" (italian word for star)


The image of a butterfly standing on a grass was bought with words "butterfly flight"


etc...


So, obviously buyers use strange terms to find certain images, and after that they buy them. In the same time, I am sure IS would reject all those images if I use these words as keywords. Am I right?

And what are then the most relevant keywords if buyers use these words to buy these images??

You will always have buyers who search for something totally different or which remotely familiar and still buys the images. The reasons are: They just like your image or they did not found anything better.
For the buyer it is much much better if the search is actually more relevant.
For example when most buyers search for Islam they would buy a different image than your shoe image. Of that I am sure. So which images should show up further in the search? Of course those which are more relevant for Islam.
Your images should rank high for Turkish shoes, because thats what they are. And when a buyer types in  Turkish shoes I think one can assume he is actually searching for those.

« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 19:10 »
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Sure. But I'm sure the buyer found many images that represent islam much better than turkish shoes. Don't understand me wrong. I also want to sell better than before. What bothers me is that I have high percent of images sold with, by me, totally irrelevant keywords (like those mentioned before). I guess it's about 20-25%

« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 19:19 »
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I understand what you are saying and in fact I have those sales from boderline keywords at DT as well, but far more seldom <5% it seems. But if you consider a keyword irrelevant it is spam. You probably mean more borderline keywords, which are maybe not spam but not the most relevant.

 However you have to account that other contributors have the same drawback. So it should theoretically not diminish your sales. Those who will loose out are the ones who spam.  And if it makes the buyers more happy it should be the way to go. I occasionally buy images as well and I can tell you I am so much more happy with iS new search.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 19:23 by Freezingpictures »

« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2009, 19:40 »
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Sure. But I'm sure the buyer found many images that represent islam much better than turkish shoes. Don't understand me wrong. I also want to sell better than before. What bothers me is that I have high percent of images sold with, by me, totally irrelevant keywords (like those mentioned before). I guess it's about 20-25%

I'm not sure what your point is with all these examples.  If they are bought with irrelevant (but still applicable, right?) keywords, then they move up in relevancy for that keyword. Since they weren't bought with other keywords they don't move up in those relevancies.

« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2009, 19:52 »
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Results are extremely accurate. Downloads are flowing. What more can be asked?

« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2009, 20:05 »
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I just wanted to say that some images are bought with so strange keywords...obviously because buyers sometimes search images using not so relevant keywords. That buyer for sure saw (and maybe bought) some mosque image, but he also bought my image of turkish shoes using keyword "islam".
So, I understand how buyer will find my image of a boy in the wood using keywords "boy wood", but I don't understand how the same buyer will find the same image using word "lungs"

I don't say this best match is bad. I just want to point that there is no reason for everyone to be so euphoric because someone will sell more, and someone will sell less. I wouldn't sell that image if buyer tries to find it using word "lungs". Let's first see who will benefit from this new best match, and then those who benefit can celebrate.
I remember when last best match was introduced. There was the same euphoria. But after it...not everyone was so satisfied.

« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2009, 20:17 »
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If we're discussing keywords used by buyers, I had an image in DT sold from a search for "love".  And some my say it's spam to use "love" in every image with hearts.  Of course some buyers know what they want and may look for something very specific.  Others do search very loosely however.  Most of my sales with keywords shown in DT were searches with one or two words only.

« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2009, 20:38 »
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Under the new best match, if files are properly keyworded and not selling there is only one thing to do: Produce better selling files.  :)

It seems fair for everyone,  You upload a picture of a pig, buyer searches keyword "pig" buys your image, you move up for keyword "pig"...simple. No magic  potion involved.

KB

« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2009, 21:16 »
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It seems fair for everyone,  You upload a picture of a pig, buyer searches keyword "pig" buys your image, you move up for keyword "pig"...simple. No magic  potion involved.
And no more penalizing non-exclusive images? I think not! Still some exclusive magic potion left, methinks.  ;D

vonkara

« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2009, 21:44 »
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Results are extremely accurate. Downloads are flowing. What more can be asked?
True any way it work. It just work!.. For the moment. Just make searches

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2009, 21:50 »
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Under the new best match, if files are properly keyworded and not selling there is only one thing to do: Produce better selling files.  :)

It seems fair for everyone,  You upload a picture of a pig, buyer searches keyword "pig" buys your image, you move up for keyword "pig"...simple. No magic  potion involved.


Right on my brother.

« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2009, 22:07 »
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So far works good for me. I tried a simple search with my most popular image, an arrangement of fruits and veggies, which has over 1700 downloads. I simply search for "produce" and it comes up first or second among several thousands as opposed to the middle of the first page before. The same scenario if I put in just "vegetable" or just "fruit". However, if I search with the only word "food" it comes up on the bottom of the second page as opposed to the top of the first page before which I think is fair as "food" is more general then "vegetable" or "fruit".

This test was done with the best match slider in the middle, a few hours ago while at home. I can't check this out again as I am at my other job and the firewall is preventing me from going into Istock.

Denis

« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2009, 22:10 »
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It seems fair for everyone,  You upload a picture of a pig, buyer searches keyword "pig" buys your image, you move up for keyword "pig"...simple. No magic  potion involved.
And no more penalizing non-exclusive images? I think not! Still some exclusive magic potion left, methinks.  ;D

You might be right. Exclusives usually get a little extra push which is understandable, loyalty should be rewarded. They put so much time and effort into this best match, I'm just happy to finally see it get off the ground and tired of wondering what sales are going to be like. Maybe they will keep it this way and we will have a little stability. The huge swings have been known to promote cancer, shortness of breath and heart disease.  :P

« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2009, 01:50 »
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infact, their loyalty is rewarded with double commision. everything else is just oppression of other contributors and tinkering with search results. being exclusive doesn't automaticly mean your images are more likely to be suitabe for the buyer.

« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2009, 02:19 »
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infact, their loyalty is rewarded with double commision. everything else is just oppression of other contributors and tinkering with search results. being exclusive doesn't automaticly mean your images are more likely to be suitabe for the buyer.

Their loyalty is rewarded through increased commission, increased exposure, increased upload limits, and priority service. Without all of these benefits exclusives would not be able to earn as much or more than if they were independent. It's fair to say that IS suppresses the exposure of independents, which is a whole lot different than saying IS oppresses them.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 02:26 by sharply_done »

« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2009, 04:14 »
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I'm so relieved to see good sales this morning.  I was dreading it going back to what it was a few months ago but so far so good, my best sellers are still getting found.  :) :)

batman

« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2009, 09:13 »
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OK, I will write here few examples:
The image of turkish shoes was bought with word "islam"
-------
edited-------

So, obviously buyers use strange terms to find certain images, and after that they buy them. In the same time, I am sure IS would reject all those images if I use these words as keywords. Am I right?

And what are then the most relevant keywords if buyers use these words to buy these images??

whitechild,  interesting list . perharps it's not a fluke that the buyer looking for islam bought your turkish shoes. it could be that since the buyer was finding islam images, the turkish shoes are fitting to other sections  eg. in many islamic cities they have large islamic supermart with everything from korans , apparel and grocery, similar to the american Superstore.

« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2009, 09:53 »
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ive searched for so many of my images with this new best match and most have all dropped in the search one of them has dropped from page 2 to page 30 so im not happy with it at all

« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2009, 10:34 »
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At first sight i am not impressed. First of all, i am of course disappointed that I have not sold a single image since BM2.0 went online.

But I just did a search test.
For instance search: pencil, blue, one. First four images in best match have many pencils, containing the keyword single object.
Search for gift card gave me a simple gift box on the front page, but no gift card. So if best match is to be most relevant, then no, best match does not impress me much.

stacey_newman

« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2009, 10:52 »
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I think the new best match is incredibly smart and does what it should for buyers. unfortunately my sales tanked this morning. has anyone else found that older files are showing up and newer files dropped off again? I'm SO hoping someone else is seeing this. I'm sure they will be tweaking. I don't want to overreact but I am 100 dls away from gold canister. now that 2.0 is out, if my sales are bad, I guess they are just bad and I'm SOL.

I don't want to sound arrogant, I know I still have tons to learn in shooting stock, but I have a large and diverse portfolio with some really good images....so I'm not sure why my sales would fall. someone please make me feel better.

« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2009, 11:09 »
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I've sold 26 files so far today. 8 were uploaded in the last year, 1 of those was uploaded in the last month and the others were mostly old best sellers.
That is about normal sales for me compared to how I usually do at this time of day.

I think the new best match is incredibly smart and does what it should for buyers. unfortunately my sales tanked this morning. has anyone else found that older files are showing up and newer files dropped off again? I'm SO hoping someone else is seeing this. I'm sure they will be tweaking. I don't want to overreact but I am 100 dls away from gold canister. now that 2.0 is out, if my sales are bad, I guess they are just bad and I'm SOL.

I don't want to sound arrogant, I know I still have tons to learn in shooting stock, but I have a large and diverse portfolio with some really good images....so I'm not sure why my sales would fall. someone please make me feel better.

« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2009, 11:14 »
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In the past it has taken a few days to see the full effects of a best match tweak, it might take longer if this is as big a change as it appears.  I just hope they don't mess around with it as much as the old one, seeing sales plummet a few times in the past makes me wary of becoming too excited when my sales are good there.

stacey_newman

« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2009, 11:22 »
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I know better than to be concerned yet. I know it is new. but for three or four days my sales were almost back to normal and then yesterday afternoon they just stopped. same thing for this morning. fingers crossed.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2009, 12:05 »
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What's kinda weird for me is that my search placement for most of my files are either a little better or way better but my sales are pretty sluggish so far today.

I think it will take a week or two to see how this affects sales. I'm sure some buyers find and buy files the same day but I'd guess most find a file, save it, comp it, and then come back and buy it days or weeks later.

« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2009, 04:13 »
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What's a difference between granola and muesli?

If you asked for granola in Australia people would look at you with a blank expression....

« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2009, 04:44 »
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What do you think happens, if I add some keywords after the file is approved? I usually revisit my newly approved files when I have time to fine-tune my keywords. Do those newly added keywords (or some being removed or DA'ed differently, etc) have an impact on existing keywords? What do you think?

And do you think it is better to have smaller amount of keywords in order for them to have "more weight"? Or it doesn't matter on IS?

« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2009, 05:04 »
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A "Good best match" is when that person finds HIS images in the top.

You've got it. My 'lesbian brides' are back, 4 shots, in the top 16 (after being nowhere a month ago). I can't help noticing that position 3 and 4 are taken by shots with zero downloads (the only ones like that on page 1) from an exclusive contributor. So it can't be view count (mine is 10x as high) nor downloads alone that do the trick. Would it be a wild guess that there is a tiny bias towards exclusives?  8)

« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2009, 05:09 »
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If you asked for granola in Australia people would look at you with a blank expression....

I thought before that "granola" was a kind of pianola played by grandmas. This site is so instructive about food terms. First "Ćevapčići' and now "Granola"  ;)

« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2009, 07:52 »
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A "Good best match" is when that person finds HIS images in the top.

You've got it. My 'lesbian brides' are back, 4 shots, in the top 16 (after being nowhere a month ago). I can't help noticing that position 3 and 4 are taken by shots with zero downloads (the only ones like that on page 1) from an exclusive contributor. So it can't be view count (mine is 10x as high) nor downloads alone that do the trick. Would it be a wild guess that there is a tiny bias towards exclusives?  8)

Isn't it more likely that the ones with zero downloads (I assume you mean those rather odd ones with the gun) are ahead of yours because they're the more recent?

« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2009, 09:00 »
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Isn't it more likely that the ones with zero downloads (I assume you mean those rather odd ones with the gun) are ahead of yours because they're the more recent?
I didn't look at that. Possible. I'm just trying to figure out what makes Istock's search engine ticking. For DT I have already a good idea. It might also be the keywords.

« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2009, 15:16 »
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Results are extremely accurate. Downloads are flowing. What more can be asked?

This depends on what keywords you use. If you do a search for wigwam you only get 7 wigwams out of 55 results for the word. On a good note at least "boy reading" no longer has an image of 2 women in a kitchen talking with an out of focus adult male in the background with a book on the first page of that search.

« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2009, 16:30 »
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What's kinda weird for me is that my search placement for most of my files are either a little better or way better but my sales are pretty sluggish so far today.


Similar experience here. Sales are about normal but I'm hoping with better search placement things will improve starting next week (wishful thinking).  :)

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2009, 17:56 »
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What's kinda weird for me is that my search placement for most of my files are either a little better or way better but my sales are pretty sluggish so far today.


Similar experience here. Sales are about normal but I'm hoping with better search placement things will improve starting next week (wishful thinking).  :)

Well it's a couple days later and sales are still a bit below normal. I've been checking more files and I got a pretty nice boost from this new best match overall. But things started slowing down for me late last week so I'm hoping it's the holidays. At my day job it seems like a ton of people are on vacation.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 06:53 by PaulieWalnuts »

lagereek

« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2009, 06:51 »
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Yep!  agree.  Its possibly the most accurate search right now. Lets hope it stays that way and not run the risk of being infiltrated by spamming.
Its in all our interest to keep it "clean"

« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2009, 15:21 »
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The thing about the new search is that the same file will be ranked differently if searched for using different keywords. I have an image of a temple in Tokyo at night - if you search under "Tokyo" there are several similar images that appear before it and out of 2908 results its not on the first few pages. A search for "tokyo temple" and its on the second line, but still behind similar images, but again behind similar images (301 in the search). If you do a search for "temple night" its the no.2 hit, with similar images ranked behind it.

How the search will go long term is anyone's guess at the moment.

« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2009, 15:53 »
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You would expect that the composite of two keyword searches would be different than an individual keyword search on either of the terms...  I mean, I would.


 

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