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Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: vonkara on September 12, 2008, 20:05

Title: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vonkara on September 12, 2008, 20:05
Look at your port and forgot about download per month. The best match is now sorted mostly by newer upload. Their performance is lot less in the equation anymore.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on September 12, 2008, 20:57
Yep. When did that happen?

I just checked a couple of images that I track regularly. One was a regular on the first page results and moved to the third page so not too bad. My best seller moved from third page to the twllight zone so not so good.

On a positive note, some of my new stuff moved from lala land to the first few pages so hopefully that evens things out.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Freezingpictures on September 13, 2008, 01:25
I think it happened yesterday. I am not yet sure what to think about it.. Lets wait one week and see..
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: fotografer on September 13, 2008, 02:18
Their best match search makes no sense at all.  I have an image that has well over 1000 dls in just over a year and hasstayed on the first page since it's been uploaded.  It is now at the bottom of page 6 of a search with 100 images per page.  At least half of the  images that come before it have less than 10 dls.  How can that be best match?  If anybody wants to see a newest search then they can sort by newest, best match should be exactly what it says.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: uploaderz on September 13, 2008, 03:26
looks like i better start uploading again to take advantage of this :)
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Alatriste on September 13, 2008, 03:57
It is not just upload date. It is almost everything but something elese is in the algoritm.
My first best match image is not the newest, it is my most viewed of quite new images but the second best match is the newest image uploaded...
 ???
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: stokfoto on September 13, 2008, 05:07
I don't know if it is something to do with the change but I had a very slow day yesterday, might be just coincidence though.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on September 13, 2008, 06:50
It looks like its been changed to show the newest images that have the highest downloads per month. Before it was just based on downloads per month regardless of age.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: vonkara on September 13, 2008, 07:54
I don't know if it is something to do with the change but I had a very slow day yesterday, might be just coincidence though.

Last thursday and friday were lower in sales for me too. I don't like what I see and I don't know why they changed this. Maybe without the view versus download thing, their best match search was the most perfect of all agencies with Shutterstock. It was already including the newer files in the equation. Then I don't see why giving them that much importance.

I can upload a picture of a ugly dog tomorrow and it will be in the first pages when approved. Maybe it's some buyers who was wanting some fresh images in front, but then what's the difference between best match and AGE
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: madelaide on September 13, 2008, 13:05
At least half of the  images that come before it have less than 10 dls.  How can that be best match?
best match, as the name says, should be a balance between keywords + description + title matching with the search terms. Number of views, downloads, date of upload, etc should be irrelevant to something called "best match" unless the search was done explicitly with these choices.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on September 13, 2008, 13:47
That would be nice if it worked that way but it's heavily weighted on downloads per month.

If I was a buyer ideally I would want the nicest image that has the least downloads. I wouldn't want one of the images with a ton of downloads because it's all over the place. And I wouldn't want a so-so image with low/zero downloads.

I think that's what this new tweak is trying to do. Give preferance to the newest popular images.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Alatriste on September 13, 2008, 13:51
I can upload a picture of a ugly dog tomorrow and it will be in the first pages when approved. Maybe it's some buyers who was wanting some fresh images in front, but then what's the difference between best match and AGE

They are IS, probably it would be rejected  :) :)
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Alatriste on September 13, 2008, 14:05
And I wouldn't want a so-so image with low/zero downloads.

Why? you can see the image at 100% to inspect that there is nothing wrong in the photo
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on September 13, 2008, 14:58
I'm referring to the aesthetic quality not the technical quality. IS continues to tweak the best match toward letting the buyer inadvertently decide the popularilty of images. Higher aesthetic quality images rise to the top and poor ones get pushed down.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: madelaide on September 13, 2008, 15:17
I have just observed that 5 of my latest 10 sales were images uploaded in 2006. 

I wonder how people found them, because I tried some searches with the more obvious keywords, and I could not find them in the first pages.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on September 13, 2008, 15:58
At least half of the  images that come before it have less than 10 dls.  How can that be best match?
best match, as the name says, should be a balance between keywords + description + title matching with the search terms. Number of views, downloads, date of upload, etc should be irrelevant to something called "best match" unless the search was done explicitly with these choices.

Regards,
Adelaide

There is no "best match" in that sense.  If the keywords match the search terms, it comes up.  If the title and description mattered, all you would need to do is modify all your images so all the keywords existed in the description and title.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: sharply_done on September 13, 2008, 16:23
There is no "best match" in that sense.  If the keywords match the search terms, it comes up.  If the title and description mattered, all you would need to do is modify all your images so all the keywords existed in the description and title.

That's the way the DT "relevancy" search works: title and description play a dominant role in search placement. Although it may sound like a good thing, maximizing your exposure takes a lot of twiddling and tweaking, which I don't think many people bother doing. Life is much simpler when only keywords matter.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Peiling on September 13, 2008, 22:47
sigh,.....again... ???
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: epantha on September 14, 2008, 12:25
Was a little concerned at first about the search engine change but it appears to be helping me. Usually only have 1-2 downloads on a Sunday and already have 5 today  :) Last Thur and Fri also good.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: vonkara on September 14, 2008, 14:04
Was a little concerned at first about the search engine change but it appears to be helping me. Usually only have 1-2 downloads on a Sunday and already have 5 today  :) Last Thur and Fri also good.
Just curious. Did you have lot of new recently approved images? Did it's your newer files who sold the best or the usual ones?
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: epantha on September 14, 2008, 15:45
Quote
Just curious. Did you have lot of new recently approved images? Did it's your newer files who sold the best or the usual ones?

I upload the 15 allotted number of images to IS every week and the photos that are selling well right now are the usual ones that are a bit unique in their category.

I've been trying to figure out why IS is doing so much better (by a huge margin) than all the other sites and I think it is because I work as a professional graphic artist and just "get" IS and what they want. A lot of my stuff is very "North American" .
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Graffoto on September 14, 2008, 16:13
I've been trying to figure out why IS is doing so much better (by a huge margin) than all the other sites and I think it is because I work as a professional graphic artist and just "get" IS and what they want. A lot of my stuff is very "North American" .


Could you elaborate on very "North American"?
Are you referring perhaps to your scenics? Shots of US currency or something else altogether?

My most popular shot is very generic and could be from any industrialzed country in the world.
OTOH, the shot that seems to be generating the most interest is of a young Latina.

My take is with the changing demographic in the US, that the Latino market is something to target. Just my $0.02
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: crazychristina on September 14, 2008, 17:03
A comparison of NA vs European movies shows strong stylistic differences and preferences. NA is a very extrovert culture.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Graffoto on September 14, 2008, 17:17
A comparison of NA vs European movies shows strong stylistic differences and preferences. NA is a very extrovert culture.


NA may be an 'extrovert' culture as you say, but also puritanical in many respects.
Last time I was in Europe, there was far more nudity in print ads than would be allowed in the US or Canada.


But I did not mean to hijack this thread. It is supposed to be about the best match on IS changing.
Since I have never really had any 'daily' downloads, I have not noticed any difference EXCEPT that two or three of my newest files have sold.
Generally I have to wait weeks or months to see action on new files.

In conclusion, maybe this will be a bit more like SS, where the newest stuff gets the most attention.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: epantha on September 14, 2008, 18:04
Quote
Could you elaborate on very "North American"?
Are you referring perhaps to your scenics? Shots of US currency or something else altogether?

Yes, American scenics, wildlife, plants and currency. I'm guessing I do better with IS because a lot more NAs buy their stock photography from this agency, for example, than the European FT, where I don't do nearly as well. DT also seems to have a lot of NA buyers based on the time of day the files are being downloaded.

Does IS change the best match several times a year?
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: yingyang0 on September 14, 2008, 18:10
Does IS change the best match several times a year?
Well the best match formula is secret so you can't really say for sure, but there are definitely several threads each year discussing strange changes in the order of searches so the answer is probably yes.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: vonkara on September 14, 2008, 18:44
Like yingyang0 say, it change a couple of time a year. But this time, it have changed quite drastically I think.

Last changes was more like quite small changes like what files show in second page using your own port. Now some of my best sellers are behind and all my newer files show in first page. Like a set of 2 umbrella, one taken from 2 angles the other one from 3 angles.

That make 5 images of the first page, being quite the same subject. In normal, only the one with download have been up front. Not the whole set. That make the search less appealing for buyers I think.

Now you can't rely on your best sellers if you didn't upload better ones than your best sellers and that everydays! Take vacation and maybe then you will earn 0.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: stokfoto on September 14, 2008, 19:07
I don't know if anyone is happy with the change but I am very disappointed with it I can already see the affect ,I do hope they will change it back how it was before.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: madelaide on September 14, 2008, 22:16
There is no "best match" in that sense.  If the keywords match the search terms, it comes up.  If the title and description mattered, all you would need to do is modify all your images so all the keywords existed in the description and title.

Try to find a photo of a red lipstick. Unless something has changed, you will find tons of images of women, full body, who happen to be using a red lipstick.  Although red lipstick may be in the keywords, it is unlikely that they appear in title or description (likely to be "smiling blond woman in jeans").  On the other hand, a photo of a red lipstick is likely to be named "red lipstick" and have "red lipstick" on the description, therefore the repetition of the search terms in all those fields is a sign that it is a best match than one with them only in the keywords.

This is, I believe, how DT works. I have even found a search term in the description only (search for Roland Garros).

FT's approach would also help the best match, as the relevant keywords are supposed to be the first ones.  But we know there are many other issues in their search tool.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: vonkara on September 15, 2008, 14:40
Here's an admin who have responded to the thread about the change on Istock. Like always it's not clear at all what he said but still...

Nope, I cannot add any more comment because I am watching the situation, like any contributor.

I do not know the ''Secret of Best Match'', nor do I feel I should.

What I can do, however, is shout loud enough for the people in the Best Match Bunker to hear us, if need be. 


http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=76456&page=10
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: crazychristina on September 15, 2008, 15:36
For JJRD (content director on istock) to have made an appearance to calm the masses suggests that the current best match waves are a bit higher than usual. Still, he didn't say much...
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on September 15, 2008, 15:41
... and he was talking as a contributor, not an admin.
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: vonkara on October 09, 2008, 13:55
There's now around 60 pages on the "best match have changed" thread on Istock http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=76456&page=1

My sales are clearly down now. Around 60% less than the month before. The search is showing sometimes a series of images from the same photoshoot in the first 5 pages, from the same contributors. There's no "official" answer from Istock. The new best match seem to be a mistake to me, but there is no change in view actually >:(
Title: Re: best match have changed
Post by: stokfoto on October 09, 2008, 14:18
last month my sales were down more than 50% ,which I believe was due to the change but this month is going ok so far I hope they will come up with a solution that would please the most of the contributers I say "most" 'cos I know it's impossible to make everyone happy.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: madelaide on October 09, 2008, 15:57
I see a reduction in mine also, but the worst thing is an increase in XS versus other sizes.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: loop on October 09, 2008, 16:06
For me, a little bit slower, on pair with september  for dl's; some or even better percentage of large files and xl than before.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: CofkoCof on October 09, 2008, 16:33
I noticed a drop in vector sales. But that happend a bit before the recent best match change when vectors were pushed back. The current best match is strange though. I compared similar images that were submitted on the same day and many times the ones with fewer downloads are infont when searching with best match.

Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vphoto on October 10, 2008, 00:28
Some increase in downloads.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: fotografer on October 10, 2008, 01:22
I had 9 dls at IS yesterday.  A year ago my average was about 40 a day and a good day was 60 to 80.  I always used to check my stats constantly at IS now I hardly bother.  They have fallen behind SS, DT and FT and last month StockXpert caught up. I used to really love IS and was seriously thinking about going exclusive but I am so dissapointed. Images that are getting downloaded 100's of times at other sites are almost impossible to find at IS :(
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: perkmeup on October 10, 2008, 03:05
I'm in a similar situation as Fotografer....before the summer started I averaged around 60 downloads a day....on a good day I would get close to 100.........NOW  I get around 20 to 30 on the average and on the weekends......wow....one of these days it's going to be zero.  IS used to be one of my best money makers...but they are really dropping now.  The site that is getting better and better is Dreamstime....my income has continued to climb there......all the other sites are remaining about the same with the exception of SS which as always....if you don't feed it....it drops slowly over time.  If things keep going as they are......at some point I may say that IS is not worth the frustration that they cause me >:(.......not yet....but some days I sure am tempted.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: designalldone on October 10, 2008, 03:47
Had a BME last month and off to a good start this month. Just glad I've not been effected like some of the other vector artists who have been hit quite badly by the best match changes.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: sharply_done on October 10, 2008, 13:45
I'm in a similar situation as Fotografer....before the summer started I averaged around 60 downloads a day...
Ditto.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: lisafx on October 10, 2008, 14:35
I had 9 dls at IS yesterday.  A year ago my average was about 40 a day and a good day was 60 to 80.  I always used to check my stats constantly at IS now I hardly bother.  They have fallen behind SS, DT and FT and last month StockXpert caught up. I used to really love IS and was seriously thinking about going exclusive but I am so dissapointed. Images that are getting downloaded 100's of times at other sites are almost impossible to find at IS :(

Agreed. 

I have seen slowdown across several sites this month (not DT or SS) but the effect of images dropping out of sight is almost exclusively istock.  I sell a good mix of new and older images on other sites.  Even those from 2005 and 2006 still sell elsewhere but almost never on istock.

When images have such a short shelf life at IS it is a big disincentive to exclusivity.   
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: KiwiRob on October 11, 2008, 00:41
No downloads in over a week, this is the first time a best match change has effected me. Last month was my second best this year. Looks like I'll have to go take some photos, I haven't uploaded anything in over a year.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: Kngkyle on October 11, 2008, 00:44
Way down on all sites except Dreamstime and shockingly Crestock.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on October 11, 2008, 04:53
So it seems like most of the comments are about downloads dropping. I wonder if the people with increased downloads aren't posting or IS' sales are down overall from the new best match.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: peolsen on October 11, 2008, 05:30
Sales at IS are down by quite a bit. And the images selling are not the same ones as before the change. SS and DT are up while the rest are down.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: GeoPappas on October 11, 2008, 06:24
Sales have dropped off about 30% for me since the best match changes.

This is just one reason why I would never consider exclusivity.  You never know when the tide will change.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: aremafoto on October 11, 2008, 09:51
I have to say my IS income has dropped off significantly this month and April has been the best month this year and I've been uploading to the limit as well.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: Stu99 on October 11, 2008, 10:50
Having read this thread I am glad that it is not only me experiencing a sudden decline at IS. This could be the worst month in the last year for me, and in light of their focus on cracking down on inaccurate keywording which is sometimes just plain ridiculous, I really am disappointed in IS.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: yingyang0 on October 11, 2008, 12:56
So it seems like most of the comments are about downloads dropping. I wonder if the people with increased downloads aren't posting or IS' sales are down overall from the new best match.
My sales are up, but I don't have a large portfolio so it doesn't really represent anything.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: pancaketom on October 11, 2008, 13:23
This latest change seems to have actually helped me marginally, although with new files selling instead of the ones that used to sell.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vonkara on October 11, 2008, 14:10
OK so it's moving a bit here with a comment from JJRD

Best Match is a secret topic, so as much as we are listening and reading each and every comment in this thread, as much as we are compiling each and every comment that is brought to our attention from Contributor Relations, we are simply not willing to commen in public, it's as simple as that.

But, given the importance of the subject and given the obvious need for an official comment, I will say the following at this point, and I will try to be as graphic as I possibly can:

As planned, on Thursday, October 9th, starting at 10am and lasting many hours, a meeting took place at HQ. Bruce was there, Kelly was there, Aaron was there, I was there. Were also present the people behind what constitutes Best Match. At this meeting, I made sure to present each and every facet of this community of artists' concerns.

Opinions were exchanged, decisions were taken... and best match team probably started to prepare some tweaks.

Again, as I said earlier in this thread, I for one am not in the know as far as what is best match, how best match works... but I know who to contact when the going gets tough.

Here, I simply want to state, again, officially, in the name of iStockphoto, that we are listening... and that we are not willing to comment on that subject.

It's as simple as that.

Thank you so very much indeed.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: GeoPappas on October 11, 2008, 14:38
The problem (for IS) with changing the best match is that no matter what they do, some people will always be affected negatively, while others will be affected positively.  Many of those that are affected negatively will react and complain, while most of those that are affected positively will not say a word (and enjoy their new bounty).

I understand why IS (or any other microstock site) changes the best match on a periodic basis - because it gives customers a fresh look at images that they might not have ever seen before and probably increases sales somewhat.

We just have to learn to roll with the flow...
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: jeancliclac on October 12, 2008, 00:50
I had 9 dls at IS yesterday.  A year ago my average was about 40 a day and a good day was 60 to 80.  I always used to check my stats constantly at IS now I hardly bother.  They have fallen behind SS, DT and FT and last month StockXpert caught up. I used to really love IS and was seriously thinking about going exclusive but I am so dissapointed. Images that are getting downloaded 100's of times at other sites are almost impossible to find at IS :(

Agreed. 

I have seen slowdown across several sites this month (not DT or SS) but the effect of images dropping out of sight is almost exclusively istock.  I sell a good mix of new and older images on other sites.  Even those from 2005 and 2006 still sell elsewhere but almost never on istock.

When images have such a short shelf life at IS it is a big disincentive to exclusivity.   


I'm exactly in the same situation. Had 500 to 600 dowloads in october 2006, same in 2007.
Seems that I will have no more than 150 this month....have always liked istock and  I have no complain about keywording rejection, max dowload etc...but I feel like as IS non exclusive, I'm getting slowly pushed out, which I regret very much. It might be an impression only as more and more contributors are joining, but when looking at the threads, it seems to me that those contributors having significant decreases in sales are Non Exclusive with more that 2000 pictures or so....

IS we love you, why dont you love us!!!!!

jean
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on October 12, 2008, 07:29
Jean, I'm not sure being exclusive is the answer. I've seen posts by plenty of high volume exclusives who have seen a big drop.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: fotografer on October 12, 2008, 08:05
In October 2006 I had over 1200 dls.  If this month carries on the way it started I will end up with about 320 dls, one quarter of the dls I had 2 years ago. Yesterday for the first time since my first weeks there I had 0 dls.
Thank goodness SS, DT and FT and even StockXpert these days are making up for it.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: fotografer on October 12, 2008, 08:06
double post
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: jeancliclac on October 12, 2008, 09:18
Jean, I'm not sure being exclusive is the answer. I've seen posts by plenty of high volume exclusives who have seen a big drop.

Thanks Paul, it is a pity than.... in a way feel better to know this is not an non exlusive problem...and hope IS team will fix this pb soon!

jean
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: loop on October 12, 2008, 10:00
Maybe it's too easy for non-exclusives, when seeing a drop in sales blame it too best match exclusives favouristism. There are non exclusives reporting better sales and some exclusives reporting a fall. While I think that exclusives deserve a help in best match placement, there are many other factors. Size, for instance. Or upload date, even stronger. Of my 200 firts best match results for my follder about 190 are pics uploaded in 2008.

Anyway, they have said in the forums that they will change the best match again, so...
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: madelaide on October 12, 2008, 16:10
The problem (for IS) with changing the best match is that no matter what they do, some people will always be affected negatively, while others will be affected positively.  Many of those that are affected negatively will react and complain, while most of those that are affected positively will not say a word (and enjoy their new bounty).

Indeed, but if they could only establish a reasonable algorithm...  I agree that it is good to show fresh images and not just the same old ones, so age factor should be taken in account.  Also sales/views should be an important factor.  Exclusivity may also be a factor, no matter how us non-exclusives may dislike it.  Then there is the limitation of images per contributor, which apparently was recently dropped, but avoided showing basically different images of the same series.

And best match for me should take into account if the search terms appear in the description and title fields also. 

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: yingyang0 on October 12, 2008, 21:04
Also sales/views should be an important factor.
I've read this before, but I've never read the reason for it. Why should sales/view influence search results? I don't really have an opinion on this other than I can't see how a low or high value of this stat should relate to its result in the best match search.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: charlesknox on October 12, 2008, 21:32
My sales are down about 50 percent this month :( oh well part of the game i guess
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: madelaide on October 12, 2008, 22:34
Also sales/views should be an important factor.
I've read this before, but I've never read the reason for it. Why should sales/view influence search results? I don't really have an opinion on this other than I can't see how a low or high value of this stat should relate to its result in the best match search.

I think it could help rank images that already match by the keywords. If two images were seen 100 times, but one was downloaded more than the other, it may be better than the latter. It is more relevant than age or total downloads, I believe.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: Gimmerton on October 13, 2008, 05:18
Sales are down at dizzy speed  :o :o

Review time is going at snail pace  ;D ;D
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: bittersweet on October 13, 2008, 08:12
Also sales/views should be an important factor.
I've read this before, but I've never read the reason for it. Why should sales/view influence search results? I don't really have an opinion on this other than I can't see how a low or high value of this stat should relate to its result in the best match search.

I think it could help rank images that already match by the keywords. If two images were seen 100 times, but one was downloaded more than the other, it may be better than the latter. It is more relevant than age or total downloads, I believe.

Regards,
Adelaide

But with the loupe feature, it is not necessary to actually click on an image in order to see the full size thumbnail. I rarely click on an image until I'm ready to purchase it. If others use this practice, it would give a huge boost to any download at all, and create a loop where sales beget sales and the same few files get stuck at the front again. Isn't this part of what everyone is complaining about?
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vonkara on October 13, 2008, 13:31
But with the loupe feature, it is not necessary to actually click on an image in order to see the full size thumbnail. I rarely click on an image until I'm ready to purchase it. If others use this practice, it would give a huge boost to any download at all, and create a loop where sales beget sales and the same few files get stuck at the front again. Isn't this part of what everyone is complaining about?
Only downloads could help the best match, because everybody can click on the images. Also the first complaints I heard was about the disparition of the slot system. With the slot system, contributors wasn't able to have more than like 5 images in front. When it was sorted by downloads per month and the slot system, barely nobody was complaining on the IS forum
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: madelaide on October 13, 2008, 16:20
But with the loupe feature, it is not necessary to actually click on an image in order to see the full size thumbnail. I rarely click on an image until I'm ready to purchase it. If others use this practice, it would give a huge boost to any download at all, and create a loop where sales beget sales and the same few files get stuck at the front again. Isn't this part of what everyone is complaining about?

No statistics is perfect. On average, an image with few views but high downloads is more popular - it's more attractive, technically superior, whatever, people prefer it over others. That's what dlds/view means to me. It may be old, it may be new.

Dlds/mo is also an interesting number and IS uses/used it a lot, but I have observed in my own images a trend that, once an image is quickly downloaded, it remains with a high dld/mo number. The number may decrease along the time, but is stays relatively higher than others.  I've seen that with images in a series uploaded close to each other. And if an image doesn't get downloaded soon, it stays forever in the end of the line.

Of course, my portfolio is small enough not to prove significant trends.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: lisafx on October 13, 2008, 16:25
Also sales/views should be an important factor.
I've read this before, but I've never read the reason for it. Why should sales/view influence search results? I don't really have an opinion on this other than I can't see how a low or high value of this stat should relate to its result in the best match search.

My problem with the sales/views ratio affecting the best match is that people seem to be gaming it.  Views from fellow contributors should not count in the best match.  Since views have been revealed as part of the best match algorithm, lots of folks, including me, have experienced a surge of dozens of views as soon as a file is approved. Since it is a relatively new phenomenon, it is hard not to assume there is an attempt at gaming going on.   
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vonkara on October 13, 2008, 16:42
I hope they do something with the best match quickly. My port doesn't came back to what it was before. I still have a file with 75 or so downloads who was in front of my port and who is still back a bit today. The problem is that newer files are in front and I didn't uploaded better images than what my best sellers was. Gosh! I can't do always better than my last best performance was, it's annoying a bit!
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on October 13, 2008, 20:26
I hope they do something with the best match quickly. My port doesn't came back to what it was before. I still have a file with 75 or so downloads who was in front of my port and who is still back a bit today. The problem is that newer files are in front and I didn't uploaded better images than what my best sellers was. Gosh! I can't do always better than my last best performance was, it's annoying a bit!

This actually brings up an interesting point. The more successful one of my images was the further back it seems to be in best match now. And the best match before seemed to be heavily tied to the views/downloads ratio. Now it seems to be age/views/downloads.

The old best match seemed to start new images 5-10 pages back which gave them a shot to be seen and move up or down based on buyer demand. The bestsellers still stayed at the front. New images seem to be starting higher and quickly disappearing if the don't start to immediately sell.

So this new best match seems to reward those who upload their new best saleable images consistently(?)
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: yingyang0 on October 13, 2008, 20:57
I think it could help rank images that already match by the keywords. If two images were seen 100 times, but one was downloaded more than the other, it may be better than the latter. It is more relevant than age or total downloads, I believe.
Your example is a straight comparison of downloads after a comparison of views, not a comparison of DLs/views. Holding all other things constant I think you could be right, but unfortunately there are a lot of other variables that could call this into question (see example below). I don't believe that a photo with a photo with a higher DL/view ratio is necessary a better match.

Take for example the ubiquitous bikini model with santa hat that is being uploaded constantly right now. Lets say you have photo A, ugly bikini santa model, that has been up for a while so it has more downloads than newly uploaded photo B. Photo B has a few downloads and has 10x as many views as photo A. The more views of photo B would likely mean that the photo is of a prettier model, but because of the nature of the photo most of the views wouldn't be buyers. Conversely, Photo A's high DL/view ratio would be a result of it being up on the site longer when there wasn't as many gorgeous bikini Santa models. So you'd be punishing the photographer of photo B for having a prettier model. In effect, there is a time or age component to the DL/view ratio.

DL/view is also effected by the design of the site itself. When a photo first appears on the site it is only visible in the new uploads section and hasn't been indexed in the search. Contributors are more likely to browse the new uploads than serious buyers because buyers are going to use the search engine. So if you're given two identical photos, C & D, and they are uploaded on the same day. There view counts will be effected by when they appear in the new uploads box. Should the photo that appears in the new uploads during the most visited time of the day be penalized for its higher view count? This also applies to what day of the week a photo first appears in the new uploads section.

I've been thinking about this and have other reasons for not including views as a variable, but I'm having a hard time seeing a reason for including it as a component to the algorithm because I don't see it as representative of a photo being either better or worse than another photo.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: madelaide on October 13, 2008, 22:11
Take for example the ubiquitous bikini model with santa hat that is being uploaded constantly right now. Lets say you have photo A, ugly bikini santa model, that has been up for a while so it has more downloads than newly uploaded photo B. Photo B has a few downloads and has 10x as many views as photo A. The more views of photo B would likely mean that the photo is of a prettier model, but because of the nature of the photo most of the views wouldn't be buyers. Conversely, Photo A's high DL/view ratio would be a result of it being up on the site longer when there wasn't as many gorgeous bikini Santa models. So you'd be punishing the photographer of photo B for having a prettier model. In effect, there is a time or age component to the DL/view ratio.

I understand your point, but maybe it's more an exception than a rule.  I believe ANY woman in bikini get many views, despite not from true buyers, so they would probably be leveled.  :)

But I still prefer it to dlds only, because this clearly benefits older images. Dlds/month maybe would be a better option to pure total dlds, but, as I said, my experience says that once an image is "luckily" uploaded soon, it remains at a high dlds/mo ratio.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: CofkoCof on October 14, 2008, 04:18
This actually brings up an interesting point. The more successful one of my images was the further back it seems to be in best match now. And the best match before seemed to be heavily tied to the views/downloads ratio. Now it seems to be age/views/downloads.
What you say is probably true, but it has some additional tweaks. Example: a file with 8 downloads in 118 views (14.5 views per download) uploaded on 08/11/08 comes infront of a file with 21 downloads 204 views (10.1 views per download) uploaded on 08/18/08. The later file has more downloads, better views/download ration, better dl/month ratio, is newer,... but is still behind the first file  ???
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: j2k on October 14, 2008, 07:57
All I can say is that my portfolio is bleeding badly. Sales are waaay down. I'd say over 60% down. :(. I still have a small portfolio on istock with a limited number of well selling photos, so I'm probably getting hit a bit more than someone with a 1000+ diversified photos.
Title: Re: best match have changed... How about the sales?
Post by: vonkara on October 14, 2008, 22:28
Still waiting for an other big best match change without saying returning back to the old one. My portfolio sorted by best match still show my newer and hopeless images while my good sellers sell 50% less.

This best match seem to advantage quantity instead of quality. Some people are seeing downloaded images pushed back because they have sold?. Two anger emoticones this time >:( >:(