MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: DeviantArt Eyeing Stock  (Read 12147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Microbius

« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2010, 07:17 »
0
"This doesn't sound so good......
But what exactly is this?? Are you going to start charging people to use stock photos to make their photo manipulations? If so i highly suggest you don't. There are to many of your members who use stock photos but they are unable to afford to pay for them "
lol brilliant!


PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2010, 07:53 »
0
"This doesn't sound so good......
But what exactly is this?? Are you going to start charging people to use stock photos to make their photo manipulations? If so i highly suggest you don't. There are to many of your members who use stock photos but they are unable to afford to pay for them "
lol brilliant!

Maybe I should send a notice to Canon and suggest they stop charging for camera equipment because I can afford to pay for it.

« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2010, 08:46 »
0
"This doesn't sound so good......
But what exactly is this?? Are you going to start charging people to use stock photos to make their photo manipulations? If so i highly suggest you don't. There are to many of your members who use stock photos but they are unable to afford to pay for them "
lol brilliant!

On a similar note...
I experienced this whole "gosh, I don't think I should have to pay for it" mentality first hand yesterday...
I've been taking some college courses because I went right from high school into the work world until last year, when I became unemployed. Rather than sitting around turning into a slug, I am taking a Photography I class and one other this semester. A girl in my class just got a new imac and she was telling me all about it. She is in her early 20s. She mentioned she was taking her computer to a friend to have the CS5 software uploaded. Another person from class was there and said "Is it a friend doing it for you because all it takes is feeding DVDs into the drive and following the directions to install." She said yes, it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

In fact, I totally agree with her that the Adobe software is way too expensive, but that's not the point. Stealing is stealing whether it's $1.00 or $1000.00.

« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2010, 09:11 »
0
On a similar note...
I experienced this whole "gosh, I don't think I should have to pay for it" mentality first hand yesterday...
I've been taking some college courses because I went right from high school into the work world until last year, when I became unemployed. Rather than sitting around turning into a slug, I am taking a Photography I class and one other this semester. A girl in my class just got a new imac and she was telling me all about it. She is in her early 20s. She mentioned she was taking her computer to a friend to have the CS5 software uploaded. Another person from class was there and said "Is it a friend doing it for you because all it takes is feeding DVDs into the drive and following the directions to install." She said yes, it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

In fact, I totally agree with her that the Adobe software is way too expensive, but that's not the point. Stealing is stealing whether it's $1.00 or $1000.00.

I don't know. I'm not sure you could learn the suite without stealing it as a student. Not that it is right, but even with the student discount, it is priced out of most students limited budget. It's a shame the prices are so high. I'd probably buy each version if it was cheaper. Now, I just buy every other version.

Microbius

« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2010, 10:27 »
0
I don't know it's pretty much peanuts for the student version. I mean most students are expected to fork out for textbooks and what have you, buying software isn't much more than buying a few books when you have a student discount.
Plus most uni or college computer rooms that teach that kind of thing will have the software installed. If you're learning a vocational or science degree you don't get to take all the lab or engineering equipment home, if can't afford it you use it on campus.
It sucks for all the guys out there that refuse to stoop to thievery, they get out competed by the tea leafs who don't mind taking the software without supporting its development by paying for it.
It's the same in Microstock, if you don't mind stealing you can have all the top end, for example, 3d software, while those of us who don't steal are hamstrung by not having the packages with all the nobs on.

jbarber873

« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2010, 18:50 »
0
"This doesn't sound so good......
But what exactly is this?? Are you going to start charging people to use stock photos to make their photo manipulations? If so i highly suggest you don't. There are to many of your members who use stock photos but they are unable to afford to pay for them "
lol brilliant!

On a similar note...
I experienced this whole "gosh, I don't think I should have to pay for it" mentality first hand yesterday...
I've been taking some college courses because I went right from high school into the work world until last year, when I became unemployed. Rather than sitting around turning into a slug, I am taking a Photography I class and one other this semester. A girl in my class just got a new imac and she was telling me all about it. She is in her early 20s. She mentioned she was taking her computer to a friend to have the CS5 software uploaded. Another person from class was there and said "Is it a friend doing it for you because all it takes is feeding DVDs into the drive and following the directions to install." She said yes, it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

In fact, I totally agree with her that the Adobe software is way too expensive, but that's not the point. Stealing is stealing whether it's $1.00 or $1000.00.

Cathy and Microbius, I totally agree with you. I've had photoshop since it was called "binuscan", and every update costs a fortune. But when I got photoshop for my  daughter through the educational discount, it was pretty cheap. Part of me was thinking- "well they owe me a freebie after all these years", but the other part says- "either you respect intellectual property or you don't". So I paid up. The problem is that there are huge parts of the world, such as china and india, where pirating software is the norm, so we make up the lost sales in higher prices for us. And a lot of kids here have grown up thinking that anything digital should be free.

« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2010, 04:58 »
0
On a similar note...
I experienced this whole "gosh, I don't think I should have to pay for it" mentality first hand yesterday...
I've been taking some college courses because I went right from high school into the work world until last year, when I became unemployed. Rather than sitting around turning into a slug, I am taking a Photography I class and one other this semester. A girl in my class just got a new imac and she was telling me all about it. She is in her early 20s. She mentioned she was taking her computer to a friend to have the CS5 software uploaded. Another person from class was there and said "Is it a friend doing it for you because all it takes is feeding DVDs into the drive and following the directions to install." She said yes, it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

In fact, I totally agree with her that the Adobe software is way too expensive, but that's not the point. Stealing is stealing whether it's $1.00 or $1000.00.

I don't know. I'm not sure you could learn the suite without stealing it as a student. Not that it is right, but even with the student discount, it is priced out of most students limited budget. It's a shame the prices are so high. I'd probably buy each version if it was cheaper. Now, I just buy every other version.

She could buy less stylish laptop (and probably even less powerful one) and the software for almost the same amount of money she had to spend on that Apple thing. So it is definitely not about money. It is about mentality. One feels it is ok to spend X number of dollars on Apple laptop but it is not ok to spend Y on the software. And the feeling is there just because that is how the value is perceived.

« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2010, 07:51 »
0
She could buy less stylish laptop (and probably even less powerful one) and the software for almost the same amount of money she had to spend on that Apple thing. So it is definitely not about money. It is about mentality. One feels it is ok to spend X number of dollars on Apple laptop but it is not ok to spend Y on the software. And the feeling is there just because that is how the value is perceived.

Normally I would agree with you, but in this instance, the school uses all macs (thank goodness) and adobe software, so she is limited if she wants to be on board. And to her credit, she did buy a refurbished apple to save a little money, but you are right. If you're going to spend that money on the mac, wouldn't you automatically factor the software into the budget, too? And I agree with an earlier post...the freakin books you have to buy are outrageous. For my Computer Graphics courses I had to buy 3 classroom in a books and one Leopard manual. If I bought them new, it would have been over $200. I bought them used and spent less for all 4 than one costs, but the point is, everybody knows the game from the start.

I see this whole DeviantArt thing as being a flop...to try to change people at this point in the game is going to be futile. There might be some that accept it, but for the most part, the damage is done. Deviants see nothing wrong with taking other peoples art, deviating it, and letting others download and use it as they see fit.

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2010, 08:02 »
0
I see this whole DeviantArt thing as being a flop...to try to change people at this point in the game is going to be futile. There might be some that accept it, but for the most part, the damage is done. Deviants see nothing wrong with taking other peoples art, deviating it, and letting others download and use it as they see fit.

Awareness is building about photographers/artists registering copyrights for their work. As this becomes more mainstream over the next few years and the average DeviantArt types start getting sued I think this will become less of a problem. But it will always be a problem.

Microbius

« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2010, 16:43 »
0
....it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

I can't afford my house and a Lamborghini, so guess I will have to steal the Lambo  ;D
@ jbarber873 yeah, but the most annoying thing is those Russians/ Eastern Europeans/Chinese etc. that think everything digital is fair game for theft is that many of them come into this industry. They can learn the software for nothing and not have to spend anything to set up in business with the best graphics packages while those of us who do what's right can't afford to get our hands on all that stuff. It makes it very hard for an honest person to earn a living!
 

« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2010, 18:00 »
0
....it was a friend and he was uploading AND GIVING her all the software, because gosh, there would be no way she could afford the computer AND the software. The other guy (who is also a young person, so not ALL young folks have that mentality) and I looked at each other and said at once, that's called pirating and it's illegal. She shrugged and said oh well, it's too expensive for both things.

I can't afford my house and a Lamborghini, so guess I will have to steal the Lambo  ;D
@ jbarber873 yeah, but the most annoying thing is those Russians/ Eastern Europeans/Chinese etc. that think everything digital is fair game for theft is that many of them come into this industry. They can learn the software for nothing and not have to spend anything to set up in business with the best graphics packages while those of us who do what's right can't afford to get our hands on all that stuff. It makes it very hard for an honest person to earn a living!
Instead of "...the most annoying thing is those Russians/ Eastern Europeans/Chinese etc. that think..." it would be much better to say: "...the most annoying thing is those people who think..."   
There are honest and dishonest people everywhere.   :) 

rubyroo

« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2010, 18:02 »
0
Instead of "...the most annoying thing is those Russians/ Eastern Europeans/Chinese etc. that think..." it would be much better to say: "...the most annoying thing is those people who think..."   
There are honest and dishonest people everywhere.   :) 

Well said Digital66.  I couldn't agree more.

« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2010, 18:17 »
0
Are you sure that people from China and Eastern Europe are actually breaking the law by downloading software? They are governed by the laws of their countries, and I believe that copyright laws in some of those countries don't offer the protection that US copyright law does.

jbarber873

« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2010, 19:03 »
0
Are you sure that people from China and Eastern Europe are actually breaking the law by downloading software? They are governed by the laws of their countries, and I believe that copyright laws in some of those countries don't offer the protection that US copyright law does.

 China, as a member of the WTO, has agreed to enforce intellectual property laws, as part of what is know as the Uruguay round of agreements. This has been the law since 1994. Getting into the WTO was sold to us as a way to bring china into conformity with intellectual property laws. All the members of the WTO are required to enforce these laws, but in practice, China only enforces cases brought to them when pressure is applied by the US government. Otherwise, they look the other way. In the US, there are few publicly traded companies that would take the chance on knowingly pirating software, but that is not the case elsewhere. Yes, piracy happens everywhere, and the polite thing is to not single out particular countries, but it is a well documented fact. We should not have to negotiate with China and India over enforcement of basic intellectual property laws, but that has been the case, nonetheless. And that hurts all of us.How would you feel if a company in China were selling your images without giving you any royalty? I'd be willing to bet they already are...
    I don't mean to sound like a ranting nutcase ( although I may be) but digital knowledge, whether it's software, images, music or whatever, is easy to steal and hard to track. I don't begrudge emerging countries the oppourtunity to beat us at our own game, but if they don't want to pay for our intellectual property, then they should create their own, not steal ours. ( there i go again- I better stop now!)

« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2010, 19:33 »
0
There are many flavours of jerk. I don't like the deviantart kind they really get my goat. One by one I delete my work from fotolia. bye bye

« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2010, 19:57 »
0
^^Thanks for that info, good to know what the real score is. I have several Chinese students who tell me that downloading is not illegal there for personal use, but perhaps they have as little understanding of the real state of affairs as most westerners seem to have.

« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2010, 20:46 »
0
Are Pirate Bay, Rapidshare, Megaupload, etc hosted in Russia or China? Were Napster and Kazaa created by Russians or Chinese?

jbarber873

« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2010, 22:28 »
0
Are Pirate Bay, Rapidshare, Megaupload, etc hosted in Russia or China? Were Napster and Kazaa created by Russians or Chinese?

I'm not trying to suggest that there is no piracy in the US. What i am saying is that there is at least a working legal mechanism backed by the government to shut them down. Napster and Kazaa are now only legal downloads, thanks to legal pressure. Piratebay and the others are bittorrent sites, so there is no host. If someone is found with illegal software or music here, it can cost them a ton of money. It should be that way everywhere.

Microbius

« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2010, 03:34 »
0
I remember there was a heated discussion about software piracy on this forum where some Eastern European members were trying very hard to convince me that, yes everyone where they come from thinks it's okay to steal IP.
I was arguing that no, it's not everyone and people in the West do it too, but I have to go with what people from that part of the world have been saying.
Anyone from the Eastern block or China want to chime in and say, nope, software piracy isn't far more prolific and less well policed in these countries?
It seems to be largely a cultural thing, it's not even considered theft over there it seems.

« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2010, 05:25 »
0
I agree with Microbius, and yes, I'm from - more or less - one of those eastern countries. The further east you go in Europe, the higher % of people steal intellectual property. Although the progress in last say 10 years is significant (in the right direction).

Similarly with laws - while they are are approx. the same in most countries, the difference is in their enforcement.

Yes, people may not like to hear it, but it is extremely likely that large % of contributors from these countries use stolen software, especially PS. My guess would be that some legalized their software once they reached certain level and there are few that have it legally from the beginning but the the majority, especially those at lower levels, use stolen software.

That's not a theory. That's the reality of life in these parts of world.

rubyroo

« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2010, 07:24 »
0
Edit:  I shouldn't write with low blood sugar... it never makes sense... let me try that again:

Essentially I think piracy occurs where the disparity between income and software costs is too great.  You find lots of piracy among students and poorer groups in the UK also.  If it's more rife in certain countries, it must surely be because the poverty is greater in those countries.  I believe that most people will pay for a product when it's easily affordable.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 08:35 by rubyroo »

jbarber873

« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2010, 09:14 »
0
Edit:  I shouldn't write with low blood sugar... it never makes sense... let me try that again:

Essentially I think piracy occurs where the disparity between income and software costs is too great.  You find lots of piracy among students and poorer groups in the UK also.  If it's more rife in certain countries, it must surely be because the poverty is greater in those countries.  I believe that most people will pay for a product when it's easily affordable.

   Well I hope that's true. My fear is that the opposite attitude takes over- "why should I pay if my competitors aren't?". There's always a good excuse, and software is pretty expensive here as well, yet I get the same royalty as anyone else in the world when a file sells.

« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2010, 09:17 »
0
Edit:  I shouldn't write with low blood sugar... it never makes sense... let me try that again:

Essentially I think piracy occurs where the disparity between income and software costs is too great.  You find lots of piracy among students and poorer groups in the UK also.  If it's more rife in certain countries, it must surely be because the poverty is greater in those countries.  I believe that most people will pay for a product when it's easily affordable.

   Well I hope that's true. My fear is that the opposite attitude takes over- "why should I pay if my competitors aren't?". There's always a good excuse, and software is pretty expensive here as well, yet I get the same royalty as anyone else in the world when a file sells.

And I am not too sympathetic to most students. Most have a better cell phone than I do, a better car than I do, and drink Starbucks lattes twice a day. I can't afford that. They get the same financial aid for school that I do. And most of them live at home.

Microbius

« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2010, 09:41 »
0
Edit:  I shouldn't write with low blood sugar... it never makes sense... let me try that again:

Essentially I think piracy occurs where the disparity between income and software costs is too great.  You find lots of piracy among students and poorer groups in the UK also.  If it's more rife in certain countries, it must surely be because the poverty is greater in those countries.  I believe that most people will pay for a product when it's easily affordable.
I disagree with this, it's about enforcement and social norms. Our whole market system is based on an antagonistic relationship between buyers and producers.
The buyers (regardless of income level) want to pay as little as possible, producers want to charge as much as possible the market price is set by an interaction between these two forces.
Without enforcement of the law the "little as possible" for buyers is zero. The only things to hold a buyer back from stealing the software are then social norms. If they don't perceive it as theft, then they are going to take it.
I know people in my family living in other parts of the world who have an income very similar to mine, which means in their country they are very well off. They would think it's nuts that I actually pay for software.
Ask Madelaide, she's talked about some of her colleagues and people she knows in Brazil, that are doing fine financially but they don't pay for software because they can get away with it and it isn't frowned upon where they are.

rubyroo

« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2010, 09:47 »
0
Well obviously I could be wrong, and only have my experience to go by (as does anybody) - but my experience has been that most people prefer to legitimise their position as soon as they are able to.  Certainly this is true of everyone I'm still in touch with who was once a fellow student and now earns a decent living.  There are, of course, a body of people who believe in an alternative economy where everything is free, and I come across those from time to time.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
17 Replies
7285 Views
Last post May 16, 2009, 17:14
by Phil
58 Replies
13470 Views
Last post January 26, 2010, 06:41
by Klauts
23 Replies
6274 Views
Last post January 10, 2010, 21:16
by madelaide
9 Replies
2858 Views
Last post July 30, 2012, 12:47
by michaeldb
8 Replies
2528 Views
Last post January 23, 2015, 20:23
by Fuertegfx

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results