Author Topic: Complaints, why all these compaints? (Read 14722 times)

Alambo · « **on:** February 17, 2015, 16:19 »

Going through all the messages I stronly feel that much time is wasted by complaints. What are the benefits of all these complaints? They waste our valuable time, energy, good ideas and so many other things. Why not stop them, they are absolutely worthless whatsoever! Or am I wrong?? Tell me!
I am an illustrator, I make a living on my creativity, its a day to day challenge. If I run out of ideas I am done. Finished. I dont have any energy left to complaints.... except this very minute and never again.
Lets talk about positive things only!!!!
P.S. An African proverb says: "Never hit a milking cow!" how wise!

ShadySue · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:21 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:19

P.S. An African proverb says: "Never hit a milking cow!" how wise!

When the cow stops giving milk, or starts to kick him, the farmer should surely wonder why, and whether anything can be done about it.
If s/he can't solve the issue, they'll talk to others, and consider other remedies.
What would be the point of them going round their neighbours boasting about their good cow?

ShadySue · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:22 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:19

Going through all the messages I stronly feel that much time is wasted by complaints. What are the benefits of all these complaints? They waste our valuable time, energy, good ideas and so many other things. Why not stop them, they are absolutely worthless whatsoever! Or am I wrong?? Tell me!
I am an illustrator, I make a living on my creativity, its a day to day challenge. If I run out of ideas I am done. Finished. I dont have any energy left to complaints.... except this very minute and never again.
Lets talk about positive things only!!!!

OK, so you have whined about the complaints.
Now you talk about positive things.

BTW there's a happy thread here: http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=361776&page=1, but it's pretty small cheese.

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:27 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 17, 2015, 16:21

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:19
P.S. An African proverb says: "Never hit a milking cow!" how wise!
When the cow stops giving milk, or starts to kick him, the farmer should surely wonder why, and whether anything can be done about it.
If s/he can't solve the issue, they'll talk to others, and consider other remedies.
What would be the point of them going round their neighbours boasting about their good cow?

+10

moooo

No Free Lunch · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:32 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:19

Lets talk about positive things only!!!!

We will notify you when a positive thing happens- just don't hold your breathe too long

Monkeyman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:33 »

I was pretty excited about this business back in 2008 when I was new and sales were growing with the number of uploads. But those days are over. Prices are going down and our royalty hasn't even been adjusted for inflation. Sales are going down as well. So it's pretty hard to stay positive.

But I'm glad for you if you still have faith in this business.

ShadySue · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:33 »

Plus if you'd been around long enough, you'd know it had first been "oo-oo iS is so great", then "oo-oo SS is so great".
Where did that get us?

Shelma1 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:43 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:19

Going through all the messages I stronly feel that much time is wasted by complaints. What are the benefits of all these complaints? They waste our valuable time, energy, good ideas and so many other things. Why not stop them, they are absolutely worthless whatsoever! Or am I wrong?? Tell me!
I am an illustrator, I make a living on my creativity, its a day to day challenge. If I run out of ideas I am done. Finished. I dont have any energy left to complaints.... except this very minute and never again.
Lets talk about positive things only!!!!
P.S. An African proverb says: "Never hit a milking cow!" how wise!

So your very first post here is a complaint?

Alambo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:47 »

I spend lots of time in searching for niches. And I found them. At least for concept illustrations. SS for example: there are very few illustrations for "epilepsy", "mental health child", "pedagogy","early childhood education", "parental alienation", it goes on and on...
I want to confirm, I am only talking about illustrations, I have no ideas about photos! And I dont know the golden times in eighteen hundred....

cthoman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2015, 16:57 »

Quote from: Monkeyman on February 17, 2015, 16:33

I was pretty excited about this business back in 2008 when I was new and sales were growing with the number of uploads. But those days are over. Prices are going down and our royalty hasn't even been adjusted for inflation. Sales are going down as well. So it's pretty hard to stay positive.

But I'm glad for you if you still have faith in this business.

Yeah, there used to be a lot of things to cheer about. I'd love to go back to that and be positive most of the time. It just isn't very easy to do anymore. I kind of stopped complaining too though. I'm just not sure if it changes anything either. Maybe, one day it will.

ShadySue · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:06 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:47

I spend lots of time in searching for niches. And I found them. At least for concept illustrations. SS for example: there are very few illustrations for "epilepsy", "mental health child", "pedagogy","early childhood education", "parental alienation", it goes on and on...
I want to confirm, I am only talking about illustrations, I have no ideas about photos! And I dont know the golden times in eighteen hundred....

And now you can sit back while all the forum lurkers copy your niches.
It wasn't 1800, it was only a very few months back for SS.
Still, so long as you're happy, why bother coming here?

Alambo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:10 »

Let me quote an American proverb:" If you dont like it, just leave it."

ShadySue · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:14 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 17:10

Let me quote an American proverb:" If you dont like it, just leave it."

That's exactly what I said in the post above.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:16 »

A good example of the current site mentality - someone reports good sales on Canstock score on agree 0. Two people report decreases and get 10 and 11 thumbs up. We're doomed I tell ye!!!

PixelsAway · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:18 »

7 years in microstock
I still enjoy doing it, having fun, learning new things,
and making a full time living.
Positive enough?

Alambo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:19 »

Million thanks to PixelsAway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shelma1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:22 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 17, 2015, 17:06

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:47
I spend lots of time in searching for niches. And I found them. At least for concept illustrations. SS for example: there are very few illustrations for "epilepsy", "mental health child", "pedagogy","early childhood education", "parental alienation", it goes on and on...
I want to confirm, I am only talking about illustrations, I have no ideas about photos! And I dont know the golden times in eighteen hundred....
And now you can sit back while all the forum lurkers copy your niches.
It wasn't 1800, it was only a very few months back for SS.
Still, so long as you're happy, why bother comng here?

Meh. There are niches and there are niches. Some niches are too niche to spend time on. Lazer, anyone?

No Free Lunch · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2015, 17:49 »

I have a niche that no one has done, since they cannot find one, a happy microstock photographer

ShadySue · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:04 »

Quote from: No Free Lunch on February 17, 2015, 17:49

I have a niche that no one has done, since they cannot find one, a happy microstock photographer

We now have ~~TWO.~~

Or are they both illustrators?
Perhaps things are better for illustrators. Historically, they 'seemed' to do better, and maybe they can weather the storm better now.

sdeva · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:10 »

WHAT ?? No more complaining?? But what else am I in microstock for? It sure ain't for the money …

polar · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:18 »

Quote from: Monkeyman on February 17, 2015, 16:33

I was pretty excited about this business back in 2008 when I was new and sales were growing with the number of uploads. But those days are over. Prices are going down and our royalty hasn't even been adjusted for inflation. Sales are going down as well. So it's pretty hard to stay positive.

But I'm glad for you if you still have faith in this business.

I recall that when I first started IS around 2004, they had a "future royalty" calculator on the web site. I have no idea about the assumptions that went into this thing, but I'm guessing they were, shall we say, overly rosy. Every time I ran it, I saw my "future royalties" rising into the stratosphere. It was a nice fantasy. GIGO in action.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:28 »

I grew up with a quaint expression "Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs". Can't enlighten you on the origin, but in general it was used to warn people who knew a little or nothing that they shouldn't lecture people who knew a lot more than they did.

You admit you're new. You don't post links to your portfolio - care to share a bit versus just criticize?

Some people here are anonymous, and to spare you some negative talk, I'll let you go look up why that is in the many threads here about this. As you're new, perhaps you didn't know you could put information into your forum profile to allow links to your portfolio to show up - it lets people get to know you a bit.

The forums here are a meeting place for a worldwide group of freelancers to compare notes about what's going on with the business. Some threads dissolve into slug fests and those are best ignored unless you like such things. The tone of the posts generally reflects what's going on. When we were fighting back against some agency shenanigans (search for Dollar Photo Club and Fotolia and boycott, or Deposit Photos and Shotshop; you'll see many examples) the tone was negative but contstructive.

Count yourself both lucky and unlucky that you haven't been around to understand why people here are in the mood they are. But turning this into a happy talk water cooler wouldn't serve any useful purpose for me. Generally people read and learn before they start telling everyone else how they ought to conduct themselves. No idea how you intended it to come off, but I find it pretty rude.

ShadySue · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:36 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 17, 2015, 16:47

And I dont know the golden times in eighteen hundred....

Here's another well known quotation: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It." George Santayana

stockastic · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:47 »

The trends in microstock are all down, have been for years, and there's no bottom in sight.

We're standing here, talking to each other, in the middle of a smoking ruin.

That's about as positive as I can get.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2015, 18:52 »

first, let me say, i never met a cow that is bad. humans yes, cows never. it's why the hindus worship them. cows are like all mothers, they see their kids hue and haw and kick from even inside their tummy , and once they come out into this world, nothing her kids do is that intolerable as when she was carrying the rascal

second, to whine is human nature, to listen is divine , to enjoy wise.
some of us enjoy leaf's forum as something we accompany our pint(s). normal ppl read the papers to enjoy headlines of countries killing each other and big corporations eating up little ones,etc
microstock-ers don't enjoy reading the papers, they prefer msg with their glutamate

take it with a great of cyanide, it's mostly tongue in cheek , don't ask me to specify which cheek

PixelBytes · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2015, 19:44 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 17, 2015, 16:43

So your very first post here is a complaint?

LOL! Brilliant!

PixelBytes · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2015, 19:52 »

I just heard of a study where they discovered that people who complain live longer than those that don't.

We should be grateful these stock agencies extend our lives by giving so much to complain about!

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2015, 20:48 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 17, 2015, 19:52

I just heard of a study where they discovered that people who complain live longer than those that don't.

We should be grateful these stock agencies extend our lives by giving so much to complain about!

LOL only a little shorter in life span than the following:
1) Keith Richards (all sort of stuff)
2) Rod Stewart (beer)
3) Emperors, Queens, and other politicians (since they execute all healthy opposition)

gbalex · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2015, 21:04 »

We should give you a year or two for reality to sink in and then we can have this conversation.

Take a short cut and pay close attention to the actions of the men who are steering the microstock ships.

Most of them have put ducks in a row to reap millions in the near short term and their plans count on us funding their success. However just as in the sub prime scam they will be happy to let us pay for their folly's at the expense of our port assets. We are well on our way to Free.

pixel8 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2015, 21:25 »

Letting off some steam is like a good cry! Just get it out so you can move on and forward.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2015, 21:28 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 17, 2015, 21:04

Most of them have put ducks in a row to reap millions in the near short term and their plans count on us funding their success. However just as in the sub prime scam they will be happy to let us pay for their folly's at the expense of our port assets. We are well on our way to Free.

they won't be needing us anyway as they are using it for moneylaundering too, like as suggested by one of the plot of some terrible B movie. can't remember the title of that 2012 movie , i thought it was written by perharps a microstocker who got pissedoff with the business. poor theory, still can still be true like some baseball cards or telemarketing companies have been known also to be moneylaundry . some of which were closed by the narc in the late early 2k.

true or not, it certainly is a good idea if you are into writing a B movie

dpimborough · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2015, 03:24 »

Just woke up having my second cup of tea and reading a thread about a contributor complaining about other contributors complaining

Dayum that is so funny

Just spluttered my assam over the cornflakes

What ever next a contributor complaining about other contributors submitting images to stock agencies?

Alambo · « **Reply #32 on:** February 18, 2015, 03:40 »

I never thought that I would get roasted....
This is what I am doing.... http://www.shutterstock.com/g/sangoiri

john_woodcock · « **Reply #33 on:** February 18, 2015, 04:38 »

I have decided that negativity is not the way to go so I have removed my comment. Good luck to you mate.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #34 on:** February 18, 2015, 05:08 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on February 17, 2015, 17:16

A good example of the current site mentality - someone reports good sales on Canstock score on agree 0. Two people report decreases and get 10 and 11 thumbs up. We're doomed I tell ye!!!

That has nothing to do with site mentality IMO. It just means that more people see declining sales than share success, thus more people agree when someone reports bad sales.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #35 on:** February 18, 2015, 05:49 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on February 17, 2015, 18:52

first, let me say, i never met a cow that is bad. humans yes, cows never. it's why the hindus worship them.

If you want to turn a cow bad, tell it that it's a goddess. The only place I've ever been attacked by an arrogant cow was in India - and I couldn't even chastise the beast because the place was full of Hindus letting it do whatever it wanted.

ShadySue · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2015, 06:12 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 18, 2015, 03:40

I never thought that I would get roasted....

Here's yet another quote: "A cynic is just a disappointed optimist". Probably all of us once were where you are now.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2015, 12:13 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 18, 2015, 06:12

Quote from: Alambo on February 18, 2015, 03:40
I never thought that I would get roasted....
Here's yet another quote: "A cynic is just a disappointed optimist". Probably all of us once were where you are now.

So effing true!

Difydave · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2015, 12:59 »

"Never hit a milking cow" should surely be aimed at the agencies rather than the content providers.
The people who supply them have, in cow terms, had their fields sold, are being kept inside on concrete, and are fed a minimum ration to maintain milk production.
It might make for rich "farmers", but it makes for damned unhappy cows!

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2015, 15:00 »

Why so many complaints? Well, MSG is probably the most popular microstock forum so people tend to come here to vent with other contributors. The scenario below is probably why people here are a bit grumpy.

New contributor starts submitting images to agencies and is euphoric over finding out people will pay for their images. They dream of quitting their day job and retiring early. They're also oblivious to the history of agency/contributors relations so this is a fresh starting point for them
After getting a few sales they submit images like crazy and enjoy BDEs, BWEs, and every other acronym you can think of that begins with Best. They can't understand why some of the people who have been around for a while complain so much
One of the agencies decides it's time to change the contributor royalty model and not to the benefit of the contributors. Not a big deal to the newbie but people flock to the forums to complain that their sales have dropped 25/50/75% and this is the worst sales since 200X.
Not-so-new-ish contributor is still submitting images like crazy but royalties aren't increasing much or have plateaud. They aren't happy but don't complain and go MSG to start asking questions if this is normal.
One of the agencies is outed for trying to hide some scamish partnering deal where contributors either get nothing or pennies for sales. Another agency cuts the contributor royalty percentage. Another agency drops prices. Not-so-new-ish contributor's sales are falling and they're getting tired of constant bad news. They go to MSG to complain. And they complain more as more bad things continue to happen
A new contributor joins MSG and their first post is asking why so many people complain. See #1.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 18, 2015, 15:10 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on February 18, 2015, 15:00

Why so many complaints? Well, MSG is probably the most popular microstock forum so people tend to come here to vent with other contributors. The scenario below is probably why people here are a bit grumpy.

New contributor starts submitting images to agencies and is euphoric over finding out people will pay for their images. They dream of quitting their day job and retiring early. They're also oblivious to the history of agency/contributors relations so this is a fresh starting point for them
After getting a few sales they submit images like crazy and enjoy BDEs, BWEs, and every other acronym you can think of that begins with Best. They can't understand why some of the people who have been around for a while complain so much
One of the agencies decides it's time to change the contributor royalty model and not to the benefit of the contributors. Not a big deal to the newbie but people flock to the forums to complain that their sales have dropped 25/50/75% and this is the worst sales since 200X.
Not-so-new-ish contributor is still submitting images like crazy but royalties aren't increasing much or have plateaud. They aren't happy but don't complain and go MSG to start asking questions if this is normal.
One of the agencies is outed for trying to hide some scamish partnering deal where contributors either get nothing or pennies for sales. Another agency cuts the contributor royalty percentage. Another agency drops prices. Not-so-new-ish contributor's sales are falling and they're getting tired of constant bad news. They go to MSG to complain. And they complain more as more bad things continue to happen
A new contributor joins MSG and their first post is asking why so many people complain. See #1.

Hey ! How do you know about my history here??

Alambo · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2015, 15:58 »

I am not new in the business as you can see from my SS Portfolio.
I can say I am an addict, a microstock junkie, I can´t leave it, I have to go on, day by day. And I am happy that I did not experienced the golden days. I started in the hard times.

cthoman · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:02 »

I thought of it this way the other day...

This is basically my full-time job. Imagine if the company you worked for hired thousands of new people to do your job every day. Those people asked you to help them to get better at ~~their~~ your job and said things like, "hey, don't worry. I just do this for fun and don't really need the money". All this while you get paid less and told by your company how great everything is going.

OK. Now, stop imagining because this is reality for a lot of us. Honestly, I probably should be happy that I'm still treading water because reality is kind of insanely unreal.

Alambo · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:23 »

what pays is not the number of people who jump into the microstock business, what pays is creativity... new ideas... it depends on our brainwork and bullishness... mixed with fear and worries about the monthly payments...

chromaco · « **Reply #44 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:30 »

Sure... but now you need to be 3 times more creative, then next year 4 times, and so on. Perhaps some of that creativity should go to figuring out how to make more than $.38 or less per download.

cthoman · « **Reply #45 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:30 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 18, 2015, 16:23

what pays is not the number of people who jump into the microstock business, what pays is creativity... new ideas... it depends on our brainwork and bullishness... mixed with fear and worries about the monthly payments...

Math catches up with all of us no matter how creative we are.

No Free Lunch · « **Reply #46 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:47 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on February 18, 2015, 15:10

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on February 18, 2015, 15:00
Why so many complaints? Well, MSG is probably the most popular microstock forum so people tend to come here to vent with other contributors. The scenario below is probably why people here are a bit grumpy.

New contributor starts submitting images to agencies and is euphoric over finding out people will pay for their images. They dream of quitting their day job and retiring early. They're also oblivious to the history of agency/contributors relations so this is a fresh starting point for them
After getting a few sales they submit images like crazy and enjoy BDEs, BWEs, and every other acronym you can think of that begins with Best. They can't understand why some of the people who have been around for a while complain so much
One of the agencies decides it's time to change the contributor royalty model and not to the benefit of the contributors. Not a big deal to the newbie but people flock to the forums to complain that their sales have dropped 25/50/75% and this is the worst sales since 200X.
Not-so-new-ish contributor is still submitting images like crazy but royalties aren't increasing much or have plateaud. They aren't happy but don't complain and go MSG to start asking questions if this is normal.
One of the agencies is outed for trying to hide some scamish partnering deal where contributors either get nothing or pennies for sales. Another agency cuts the contributor royalty percentage. Another agency drops prices. Not-so-new-ish contributor's sales are falling and they're getting tired of constant bad news. They go to MSG to complain. And they complain more as more bad things continue to happen
A new contributor joins MSG and their first post is asking why so many people complain. See #1.

Hey ! How do you know about my history here??

We know everything Ron

Pauws99 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:48 »

"That has nothing to do with site mentality IMO. It just means that more people see declining sales than share success, thus more people agree when someone reports bad sales."

Possibly but why when I look at the graph of stats submitted on the right generally trends seem flat? I guess we'll never know. It seems to me people like to share decline and keep quiet about success.

This years annual survey will be interesting.

Alambo · « **Reply #48 on:** February 18, 2015, 16:54 »

I am sorry to tell you, but whenever I take part in a survey I produce nonsense figures. Don´t ask me why. I hope that there not too many people like me.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:03 »

Hopefully they cancel each other out. Not very nice though is it? - its one thing to not participate but disappointing you chose to mislead.

The only stats I rely on are my own

Alambo · « **Reply #50 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:09 »

You are perfectely right. I agree. But what shall I do with statistical figures? I cannot eat them, I cannot benifit from them, I cannot sell them, what . should I do with them??? Interesting, I cannot write the word "hell", it will be cancelled immediately. What the " " is censored. Is it strange? or not...

Pauws99 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:11 »

If you don't know how to use stats ignore them (or learn how to use them

). Actually in this business they can be very helpful

Alambo · « **Reply #52 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:15 »

teach me how to use them. I got haunted by statistical figures my whole professional lifetime. I am fed up, sorry.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:18 »

If you look through the site you will find lots of discussion about stats. Sometimes the site is of some value!

ShadySue · « **Reply #54 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:21 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on February 18, 2015, 16:48

It seems to me people like to share decline and keep quiet about success.

Maybe so, but it wasn't always thus.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 18, 2015, 17:24 »

I agree Sue - I'm getting drawn into unproductive discussion on here - time to get back to some (hopefully) productive work

PixelBytes · « **Reply #56 on:** February 18, 2015, 19:10 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 18, 2015, 16:54

I am sorry to tell you, but whenever I take part in a survey I produce nonsense figures. Don´t ask me why. I hope that there not too many people like me.

I don't need to ask you why you would do such a dishonest thing. The fact that you do it tells me everything I need to know about you.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #57 on:** February 18, 2015, 19:54 »

Quote from: Difydave on February 18, 2015, 12:59

"Never hit a milking cow" should surely be aimed at the agencies rather than the content providers.
The people who supply them have, in cow terms, had their fields sold, are being kept inside on concrete, and are fed a minimum ration to maintain milk production.
It might make for rich "farmers", but it makes for damned unhappy cows!

years ago, someone here used to compare contributors treatment to a GYN using a baseball bat .
today thanks to someone here we are more humanely treated being compared to milk cows.
imagine the next Pink Floyd album will have a milk cow with the bubble (oh man my t*ts are so sore!!!)

ShadySue · « **Reply #58 on:** February 19, 2015, 07:09 »

Quote from: Alambo on February 18, 2015, 17:09

You are perfectely right. I agree. But what shall I do with statistical figures? I cannot eat them, I cannot benifit from them, I cannot sell them, what . should I do with them??? Interesting, I cannot write the word "hell", it will be cancelled immediately. What the " " is censored. Is it strange? or not...

Two more complaints!

Dook · « **Reply #59 on:** February 19, 2015, 07:49 »

Come on ShadySue, give this guy a break.

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Author Topic: Complaints, why all these compaints? (Read 14722 times)

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