Author Topic: Moldels and Money ? (Read 9727 times)

vossphoto · « **on:** July 25, 2013, 08:38 »

Hi All,

Being new to this, I marvel at the wide range of image some photographers have created.Just came from Sean Locke site, WOW. Help me with this, How do most photographers deal with Models / Money. It seems, he offer prints in exchange for modeling services to most.Not MONEY!

I understand using family and friends (cheap), but besides them, are there a ton of aspiring models out there that can't wait to give there services away for close to nothing?

How do most of you work with Models and compensation for there time and efforts?
Thank you.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2013, 08:59 »

Actually, I pay my models by the hour. Real money makes sure they turn up, and are prepared. Or at least you have a better chance

picture5469 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:09 »

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on July 25, 2013, 08:59

Actually, I pay my models by the hour. Real money makes sure they turn up, and are prepared. Or at least you have a better chance

+1

Also they cant ask for the images either

vossphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:24 »

thanks Sean for your reply. Are most of your models Pro's?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:28 »

Nope. They're just regular people, some of whom do model now and then. Agencies hate stock and don't like to let their people do it, unless you pay many hundreds.

Ron · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:36 »

What is your hourly pay Sean? What would you pay a friend or a model? I am wondering if I should offer money. I am afraid I never make it back. But alas.

vossphoto · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:38 »

Sean your very prolific. If most models are not Pro's, how do you find them?
Thanks Sean For sharing.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2013, 08:28 »

Craigslist, local audition sites, friends/relatives of other models, etc.

vossphoto · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2013, 08:34 »

Thanks Sean for your time and ideas.

tab62 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2013, 12:44 »

"Models and Money"- Good future Movie Title...

Carl · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2013, 05:38 »

Models and photographers have a rather unique symbiotic relationship. Models need good photographs for their portfolios, and photographers need good models for theirs. So very often it's a trade, known in the industry as TFP, which stands for "Time For Prints," and is a throwback to the days of film and physical prints. Instead of the photographer paying the model with cash, we pay him/her in the form of free professional-quality photographs, which they can use in a portfolio or other forms of self promotion (but they cannot license the photograph for publication). Since the advent of the digital age, we don't deal in physical prints, so you'll see "TF" quite a bit. The "P" is absent. In my case, I don't need more photos for my portfolio, so I look for beginning models who need professional photos, or experienced models who are updating or wanting to get a specific shot. Instead of paying me, they get free photos in exchange for a signed model release. The best modeling site, in my experience, is http://www.ModelMayhem.com. If a model is truly exceptional, I'll offer a modest hourly rate in addition. But beware: for every model you find who is responsible enough to show up and mature enough to conduct himself/herself in a respectable manner, you'll go through dozens who aren't. And be very patient with the beginners. After all, we were beginners at some point.

picture5469 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2013, 06:18 »

Every model i paid has turned up. Most models for TF haven't turned up. My time is too valuable to waste

leaf · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2013, 10:08 »

I always pay my models as well. They are doing a professional job and I am making money from their image. I feel it is only fair to pay them. I also give them copies of the images if they want.

I have found models through model mayhem (mixed results), street casting (some good model finds there), and friends of friends on facebook (great results there recently).

In Canada I pay models $30/hr if I haven't used them before and $50/hr if I have used them before. It feels a little high and I could probably get away with paying less. A shoot can easily get to $1000 in modelling fees, but I'm not worried if I'll make the money back (I know I will - at least on the average) so I'm happy to share some of the income with the models.... especially the best ones that I use over and over.

ShadySue · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2013, 10:25 »

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08

street casting (some good model finds there),

Do you mean just going up to people in the street and asking them?

fotorob · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2013, 10:31 »

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08

I have found models through model mayhem (mixed results), street casting (some good model finds there), and friends of friends on facebook (great results there recently).

Can you tell me more about your "facebook model search"?
What exactly did you write, how many fans has your page and what was the answer/results ratio and the like?

Thanks,
Robert

Perry · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2013, 11:45 »

First time I do a quick session at my studio, just to test out how a person acts in front of my camera and how the images turn out. The images are just tests, they are not for stock. They can have a few freebie images from this session.

If I liked the person and the results, I will pay a modest hourly rate. Because it's fair, professional and makes my models almost certainly turn up on the day and time of the shoot.

leaf · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2013, 23:10 »

Quote from: fotorob on July 28, 2013, 10:31

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08
I have found models through model mayhem (mixed results), street casting (some good model finds there), and friends of friends on facebook (great results there recently).

Can you tell me more about your "facebook model search"?
What exactly did you write, how many fans has your page and what was the answer/results ratio and the like?

Thanks,
Robert

I didn't use a facebook page. I just wrote to friends of my friends on facebook asking them if they wanted to model for shoot X. About 30% answered and were interested. The few that I've used so far turned out to be great models.

leaf · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2013, 23:13 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 28, 2013, 10:25

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08
street casting (some good model finds there),
Do you mean just going up to people in the street and asking them?

Yes. I did it once to an old man who looked like a good santa clause (he didn't call me back). For some of the shoots I do in Norway I have an assistant help find models. He was out just standing on the street downtown looking for people. He found a really great male model which is always tough to find... and a few not so great female models

stocked · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2013, 00:35 »

I pay and they get all the pictures from the shoot for their self-promotion. That said most of my model-shoots don't go to microstock.

SLP_London · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2013, 04:52 »

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08

A shoot can easily get to $1000 in modelling fees, but I'm not worried if I'll make the money back (I know I will - at least on the average)

Seriously? You make this back in Microstock? Over how many years? And still there is a profit?

picture5469 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2013, 04:57 »

You need to shoot stuff thats less supplied and in demand.

zeamonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2013, 05:51 »

On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.

Ron · « **Reply #22 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:04 »

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51

On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.

They have to be in the same country and even in the same area as you, so its not like you have plenty of choice.

zeamonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:24 »

Quote from: Ron on July 29, 2013, 06:04

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
They have to be in the same country and even in the same area as you, so its not like you have plenty of choice.

I dont know...Im based in Bangkok and there are at least 5-6 pages that caters to that city.

ShadySue · « **Reply #24 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:29 »

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51

On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.

I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?

zeamonkey · « **Reply #25 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:36 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:29

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?

I hardly need to search for them since FB suggest them to me based on my interests, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221160901268726/

ShadySue · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:43 »

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:36

Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:29
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?
I hardly need to search for them since FB suggest them to me based on my interests, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221160901268726/

I don't get any suggestions of local models, and my search terms didn't help, I wondered if you had different search terms.

zeamonkey · « **Reply #27 on:** July 29, 2013, 06:48 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:43

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:36
Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:29
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?
I hardly need to search for them since FB suggest them to me based on my interests, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221160901268726/
I don't get any suggestions of local models, and my search terms didn't help, I wondered if you had different search terms.

I just tried 'modelling UK'. Returned 7 pages, probably not all usefull for our purpose but a starting point for searches.

ShadySue · « **Reply #28 on:** July 29, 2013, 07:00 »

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:48

Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:43
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:36
Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:29
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?
I hardly need to search for them since FB suggest them to me based on my interests, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221160901268726/
I don't get any suggestions of local models, and my search terms didn't help, I wondered if you had different search terms.
I just tried 'modelling UK'. Returned 7 pages, probably not all usefull for our purpose but a starting point for searches.

I tried 'modelling Ayrshire' (my home area) and got 0.

zeamonkey · « **Reply #29 on:** July 29, 2013, 07:06 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 07:00

Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:48
Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:43
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 06:36
Quote from: ShadySue on July 29, 2013, 06:29
Quote from: zeamonkey on July 29, 2013, 05:51
On facebook there are many pages for models, photographers, makeup artist etc where people are seeking models, announce jobs etc. Just search for them.
I don't use Fb to search (though I heard yesterday to my astonishment that it's overtaking Google search), so I tried model and my home area and got 0 results. Then I tried model Glasgow (nearest city, just for research) and found three, one of whom is with an agency, so probably won't do stock one is covered with tattoos and one is an actor, so possibly won't do stock (but might).
What do you search for that you find 'many'?
I hardly need to search for them since FB suggest them to me based on my interests, like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221160901268726/
I don't get any suggestions of local models, and my search terms didn't help, I wondered if you had different search terms.
I just tried 'modelling UK'. Returned 7 pages, probably not all usefull for our purpose but a starting point for searches.
I tried 'modelling Ayrshire' (my home area) and got 0.

The more local it is, the harder it would be to find, I agree.

vsaboya · « **Reply #30 on:** August 04, 2013, 16:44 »

My two cents:

Start with TFP or friends, sisters, cousins. Is better to start looking what sells before putting your money on a pro model and find that you dont get the correct pictures or took pictures that dont sell and u waste your money

1000$, seriously? Too much money for micro I guess. Start like Sean told you, no more than 100$ is a so high amount of money to recover your investment

Ed · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2013, 20:28 »

Quote from: leaf on July 28, 2013, 10:08

I always pay my models as well. They are doing a professional job and I am making money from their image. I feel it is only fair to pay them. I also give them copies of the images if they want.

I have found models through model mayhem (mixed results), street casting (some good model finds there), and friends of friends on facebook (great results there recently).

In Canada I pay models $30/hr if I haven't used them before and $50/hr if I have used them before. It feels a little high and I could probably get away with paying less. A shoot can easily get to $1000 in modelling fees, but I'm not worried if I'll make the money back (I know I will - at least on the average) so I'm happy to share some of the income with the models.... especially the best ones that I use over and over.

I agree with this 100%. I pay models $30 - $40 per hour (that includes makeup time). Good models that actually show up and don't flake out are hard to find.

leaf · « **Reply #32 on:** August 05, 2013, 22:06 »

Quote from: vsaboya on August 04, 2013, 16:44

My two cents:

Start with TFP or friends, sisters, cousins. Is better to start looking what sells before putting your money on a pro model and find that you dont get the correct pictures or took pictures that dont sell and u waste your money

1000$, seriously? Too much money for micro I guess. Start like Sean told you, no more than 100$ is a so high amount of money to recover your investment

$1000, yes.. at times. Last week it was 5 models for 4 hrs at $50/hr each. I could have done the shoot with 2 models but wanted to get more variety and 'looks'.

And it all depends on the shoot. I fully agree that it is worth your time to use family and friends when starting out. TFP is also a good option. Get comfortable with shooting with models and experiment with what sells. I am only using models at that price on shoots that I know are going to give me a return on my investment. Generally, the best selling image from a shoot will easily pay for all the modelling fees from that shoot. If you don't have good models who can pose and make their facial expression like you ask, you may not get that good selling shot.

I also feel like locations are a bit more of a premium than the models so I book several models to have several variations of the same shot at a shoot. I could do the shoot with half the models and get half the variations but feel it is the best use of my time to get all the shots in a single shoot, even if half the models have to wait some of the time. I also feel it is OK for the models to get a little break in the shoot when they aren't being used. Having multiple models also gives me a little insurance. If one get's sick the shoot doesn't have to be cancelled - which risks that the location is lost for good.

Ed · « **Reply #33 on:** August 06, 2013, 20:51 »

Models that know how to model, or actors that know how to act, are worth their weight in gold. They can provide you with more than enough expressions and poses than you can edit in 6 hours. The cool thing about it is, you go in with an idea of what you need...an experienced model will provide suggestions and various moments of "I can do this" that can lead to AT LEAST double the amount of images than the average Model Mayhem model that has a claw hand, high opinion of herself/himself, and who won't show up to your shoot 75% of the time.

Treat your models well. Build a relationship with them.

Saul12 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 13, 2013, 21:59 »

The 1s I ended up working with were happy, i mean to be getting professional quality photos done free of charge there is no need to pay them. They ended up using the photos for their own personal portfolios.

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Author Topic: Moldels and Money ? (Read 9727 times)

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