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Author Topic: Nikons response to the Canon EOS 5D Mark II  (Read 9499 times)

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« on: September 24, 2009, 19:53 »
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Hi everyone,

Do you think that Nikon will SOON have a strong response to the Canon EOS 5D Mark II? 21.1 MP ??!!?? Is it really necessary?
The D3x is too expensive.
If you could afford both the Nikon D3 and the D700 which would you go for?
I know the D3 is nearly twice the price, but the D700 is a more recent model so which would you buy and why?

Go ahead Nikonians

Kone


PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 21:07 »
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I haven't seen any solid information that something like a 24MP D700x/D800 is coming out. Only speculation.

I waited. And waited. Annnddd waited. After 9 months of no response from Nikon about a 20MP+ mid-level camera I dumped my D300, lenses, etc for a 5DMII. No regrets.

Nikon dropped the ball. The 5DMII has been out for a year, is still selling at full price, and is still in short supply sometimes. I wonder how may other Nikon people have jumped ship because they got tired of waiting.   

Regarding D3 vs D700 I think a D700 would be more than enough for stock. Unless you're shooting speeding cheetahs and fighter jets. But you now have several options from Canon and Sony that give you over 21MP for around the same price as a D700. Why bother?

ap

« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 21:13 »
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my understanding is that although the 5DMII truly has great images at full format, it's a bit slow and unweldy to use if you want to shoot news or sports (or carry it outside for action shots). so, i certainly hope nikon can come up with a 24mp camera before i jump ship and commit to better lenses.

« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2009, 21:18 »
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Nikon Rumors said the D700 is being discontinued.  Anyhow, they say it is discontinued at Best Buy.  They are also saying that a D3s is coming out in November, a D3 with video.  Nikon Rumors is - well - rumors, but usually they prove true.

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 21:32 »
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my understanding is that although the 5DMII truly has great images at full format, it's a bit slow and unweldy to use if you want to shoot news or sports (or carry it outside for action shots). so, i certainly hope nikon can come up with a 24mp camera before i jump ship and commit to better lenses.

I haven't really shot much action with it but yes, Nikon's 51 point 3D system works pretty good. But the 5DMII still seems to do a pretty good job with motion.

ap

« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 21:36 »
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i read somewhere that it doesn't have the same 'face recognition' feature of nikon. so, trying to get that kid running around in focus may not be possible.

« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 21:40 »
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Thanks for reply

@PaulieWalnuts
"I waited. And waited. Annnddd waited. After 9 months of no response from Nikon about a 20MP+ mid-level camera I dumped my D300, lenses, etc for a 5DMII. No regrets.
Regarding D3 vs D700 I think a D700 would be more than enough for stock."

So why did you switch to Cannon (for video??)?
5DMII + L glass = D3x (I olready have all 2.8 lens)
I do mostly stock

Kone

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 21:47 »
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Nikon Rumors said the D700 is being discontinued.  Anyhow, they say it is discontinued at Best Buy.  They are also saying that a D3s is coming out in November, a D3 with video.  Nikon Rumors is - well - rumors, but usually they prove true.

Most of the rumors are pointing to a D700s not x as the D700 replacement. So, a 12MP D700 with new stuff like video and articulating LCD. If this is true I don't think it will be around long because they won't sell many.

I don't think Nikon wants to make a D700X. It would devalue their entire pro line. They started offering pro features (51pt 3D focusing, metering, etc) in cheaper cameras like a D300. Now they're having a hard time convincing people that the D3X 24MP sensor and rugged body is worth $5,000 more. If they make a 24MP D700X for $2K-$3K will a D3X be worth $7K?


PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 22:09 »
0
Thanks for reply

@PaulieWalnuts
"I waited. And waited. Annnddd waited. After 9 months of no response from Nikon about a 20MP+ mid-level camera I dumped my D300, lenses, etc for a 5DMII. No regrets.
Regarding D3 vs D700 I think a D700 would be more than enough for stock."

So why did you switch to Cannon (for video??)?
5DMII + L glass = D3x (I olready have all 2.8 lens)
I do mostly stock

Kone


Because I wanted the quality from a full frame sensor and the flexibility of 20MP+. And, I wasn't real happy with the D300's output.

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 22:42 »
0
i read somewhere that it doesn't have the same 'face recognition' feature of nikon. so, trying to get that kid running around in focus may not be possible.

It's possible. It's just not fool-proof like Nikon system.

ap

« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 22:47 »
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do you employ any specific tricks?

« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 01:49 »
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I have a 5d MkII and I love it. The 21 MP are great, the low noise is great and of course Canon has an advantage in fast primes. A friend of mine bought the Nikon D700 and I tried it out a bit. I actually really like it. It is a great camera. The autofocus is awesome. It is so so much better then the one on my 5d. The autofocus is by far the biggest disadvantage Canon has. After I had the D700 in my hands the autofocus of my 5d felt like one of a cheap camera. Autofocus really seems to be a main issue for Canon. That is also what the guy in the shop told me where I went yesterday. Canon does not seem to be able to fix the issues they have with the cameras  :(

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 05:53 »
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do you employ any specific tricks?

No tricks. Continuous focus with a specific focus point manually selected depending on portrait or landscape shooting.

Nikon's 3D makes it easier because all 51 pts are active and the camera selects the focus points. They also cover a large percentage of the viewfinder so it's almost impossible to not focus on the intended object. So if the object moves off-center the focus points will follow it. It's pretty slick and works, well like magic.

The majority of the stuff I shoot is still so for the price the 21MP, amazing image quality, and video outweigh the superior focusing.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 08:23 by PaulieWalnuts »

« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 07:28 »
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I have a 5d MkII and I love it. The 21 MP are great, the low noise is great and of course Canon has an advantage in fast primes. A friend of mine bought the Nikon D700 and I tried it out a bit. I actually really like it. It is a great camera. The autofocus is awesome. It is so so much better then the one on my 5d. The autofocus is by far the biggest disadvantage Canon has. After I had the D700 in my hands the autofocus of my 5d felt like one of a cheap camera. Autofocus really seems to be a main issue for Canon. That is also what the guy in the shop told me where I went yesterday. Canon does not seem to be able to fix the issues they have with the cameras  :(

Auto focus (in my case) is very important
Thank you

kone

ap

« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 09:49 »
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thanks paulie for clarifying the differences between the higher end nikons and canons. it's all clear now! as for the canon 5d markII, are the pixels really sharp and noise free even at 100% at full 21mp? at what iso or low light conditions do the pixels start to degrade?

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2009, 10:04 »
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as for the canon 5d markII, are the pixels really sharp and noise free even at 100% at full 21mp? at what iso or low light conditions do the pixels start to degrade?

There are a lot of variables so this is kind of difficult to give one answer. The out-of-camera JPEGs are pretty noise-free but also aren't super sharp even with a sharp lens.

You get to see exactly what "sharp" means when you process a CR2 Raw file. The CR2's are unbelievable with the amount of detail and sharpness they produce. Raw images are pretty noise free except for high contrast situations like blue skies where a little noise shows up but it's still pretty minor.

Pixels start degrading at every ISO stop up but 1600 is still decent. 3200 is usable with the right lighting and maybe some downsizing. Above that I don't think it would get accepted anywhere.

With my D300 I rarely went above ISO200 and stuck mainly with the fake ISO100 because it seemed to have less noise and shadow problems.

« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2009, 10:53 »
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Rember that it took three years for Nikon to get something equal to old Canon 5D.

Canon 5D (launched in 2005) got its serious rival with Nikon D700 (launched in 2008).
("serious rival" = Full-Frame 12mpix sensor, prosumer price tag)

And yes I think D700 is superior to old 5D, but hey, it's three years newer!

I think Nikon wasted too much time with their crop-sensor silliness.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 10:58 by Perry »

alias

« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2009, 11:47 »
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I frequently use both Nikon and Canon systems and am neutral. FWIW the Nikon gear feels much more solid and in general I am aware of significantly fewer manufacturing quality control issues on the Nikon side. That said, the original Canon 5D was a fantastic breakthrough camera with relatively few issues. Still is. Canon also make several very good lenses.

Even for fairly important annual reports I would general be sending the designers roughly 6 MP tifs normally downsized from RAW files. In the 35 mm format the pixel resolution race is becoming somewhat pointless. Especially given that images are going to increasingly be used mostly online as the use of print declines.

Nikon and Canon are both great. Even the cheapest dslr from either of them is already a great camera. It would be fantastic to see them coming up with some interesting niche models. 2x35 mm panoramic camera would get my vote.

« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2009, 13:09 »
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With my D300 I rarely went above ISO200 and stuck mainly with the fake ISO100 because it seemed to have less noise and shadow problems.

This is why I want to retire my D200 ???

Kone

« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2009, 13:11 »
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Nikon Rumors said the D700 is being discontinued.  Anyhow, they say it is discontinued at Best Buy.  They are also saying that a D3s is coming out in November, a D3 with video.  Nikon Rumors is - well - rumors, but usually they prove true.

I should wait few months

Kone

« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2009, 13:44 »
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Even for fairly important annual reports I would general be sending the designers roughly 6 MP tifs normally downsized from RAW files. In the 35 mm format the pixel resolution race is becoming somewhat pointless. Especially given that images are going to increasingly be used mostly online as the use of print declines.


Pixels, pixels
I should mention that I have D200
D200 is 10 MP and has lots of noise in dark areas (if you compare with newer cameras).
 Also I have to upsize for Alamy  so some of files do not come very sharp after resizing, and I have some other business to do on the other side. I would not mind the D700 or D3 BUT 12 MP ?!? and as PERRY mention they are OLD cameras D700 one year and D3 3-4 years old.

Kone


 

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